We know only too well that by far the majority of psychopaths are men. Or at least we think we know that. Could it be that the criteria used to identify psychopaths are biased towards men? After all Hare began his work in male prison.
Think about it. While behaving and being the way the PCL-R without doubt earns one the label psychopath, this is simply a list of symptoms. It says nothing about the underlying dynamics. If psychopathy is life centered on the principle of power (as opposed to love) and if it is therefore characterised by what Liane Leedom nicely calls ‘warped empathy‘, then wouldn’t you expect there to be more or less the same number of woman as men psychopaths? And wouldn’t you expect them to come across differently?
I am beginning to wonder whether there may be two broad types of psychopathy – a ‘male’-type and a ‘female’-type. I place these in quotes because, when I think about it, men with might be thought of as ‘female’ psychopathy come to mind and we all know about women with ‘male’ psychopathy. And yet, at the risk of being un-PC, I want to maintain these descriptors for now so that the difference I think I see doesn’t disappear.
A ‘female’ psychopath would not necessarily commit crimianl/antisocial acts like her male counterpart, but she woud be as power-driven, as toxically narcissistic as a ‘male’ psychopath. The control, the manipulation, the dishonesty, the selfishness, the callousness – all these would be present, but we might not recognise them for what they are because of 1. media portrayal and 2. medical diagnosis of psychopaths. The difference would come in the gendered style of their behaviour.
In my clinical work I have come across this phenomenon. For example, a woman I now consider to be of the ‘female’-type of psychopath didn’t come close to committing a crime and yet the way she mothered her daughter, my patient, came close to destroying the child’s mind. This seems to me to be a perversion of motherhood eqivalent to the perversion of fatherhood we read about on this website.
Do readers have any comments? I’m particularly interested in any examples you might have of how ‘female’ psychopathy – if such a thing does exist – manifests itself?
WOW! Ca Mom!
Just when you think your S story is bad-you can always hear someone else’s here which is alot worse! Holy Cow! It’s hard to believe and seeing how much damage one human being(IF you want to call them that) can inflict in their lifetime! I feel for everyone in your life that was “touched” by your sister!
What a sad state of affairs!
Blueskies,
Their actions speak louder than their words!!!!!
“You kept thinking she was a lovely and intelligent woman” – because thats what you a. want her to be and b. the way she “represented” herself to get in your good graces.
All the red flags are there. And all the excuse-making (by you) is there (many of us would be doing the same thing for a relative – except since youve had experience with dysfunctional situations — you already know and sense and feel uncomfortable playing her game anymore)
If this was a good relationship with a houseguest – you would not need to ask for housekeeping or assist in providing rental information…etc. she would be doing it fairly on her own. I like that you said “It must be tough but I still need the housekeeping”
Remember – they will take advantage of you until you no longer let them. Until you put your foot down. She isnt afraid to do what she does so you also cant be afraid to do whats right for you.
You could simply say ok girly we need to get on the ball and find you a place to go by March 1– my friend is coming to visit and i realize the months are going by and we havent done anything productive to get you set up on your own somewhere. Jeez I wouldnt even let my son do this! As your aunt I have to preach responsibility at some point! So lets get going on a plan so that my houseguests can arrive without us scurrying about to find you a place.
Or another option is to say Ive decided that by the end of the month I would like to have my old routine back in my life. Its just too much for me with bills and housekeeping and schedules. Im so glad I could help you out since October, but now we need to have a plan B by March 1 and Im willing to help you!
Perhaps if you heard from the father or the fathers wife the original story as to why she was thrown out you may not have taken her in?? Can you get their phone number/is it on your phone bill? Can any family member help you connect with them. She CERTAINLY isnt going to give you that info!!!
Whatever you do – keep it cheery, light… DO NOT LET HER TURN IT INTO NEGATIVE MANIPUATION. KNOW TO EXPECT THAT SHE WILL DO THAT..but you have the power to say dont be silly – or oh my goodness where does this talk come from — Im saying to you what I would say to anybody whose been in my home over a month!!! Now dont take it personally or get defensive — Im glad I could help you out in a pinch — but its just time to figure out plan B. Im ready to go back to not having company in my home. I expect as much respect and understanding as I gave you upon your request to move in. I know you must be worried where will you go – but we will find you a place — its just time darling!!!!
If she gets out of hand . Say “you are making me feel uncomfortable in my own home and I wont permit that” I didnt expect you to react so negatively to a very open and honest and valid conversation about you needing to find another place. Im sorry you feel the way you do, as Ive been very accomodating to you – but its time for you to find another place by March 1. However if you are going to make me feel uncomfortable in MY home between now and then because Ive kindly asked you to move out by months end- then maybe its best you call a friend now and go there….
The point is to stay in control. Without fear. And PROTECT yourself with doing and saying the right thing. Put it back on her – i really didnt expect you to react or act this way — when it was time to leave. Did you think it would go on this way thru the summer for goodness sakes – if you had said that upfront I would not have been able to take you in. This was a temporary situation – not just for you – but for any family member I would open my home to – it would be temporary. Its time to work on Plan B!
Dont be afraid! She will sense that and manipulate you. Be firm . Be forward. Be in control! you can do it Blueskies!!!!
ps. How old is your son??
Thanks LTL:)x really helpful stuff.x I needed to hear both yours and Erins take on this to give me that little bit of extra gumption, while recognising the need to be aware that there are very likely going to be further attempts at manipulation. I was stuck…thanks guys.
(My son just turned 8.)
I bit the bullet last night. I did google flats and there are LOADS that she could easily afford – so anyway, I told her that the situation wasnt working for me, that I had been happy to help her out but it was time for her to take responsibility for her own life, and that I would like her to start taking some action with a view to her getting her own place by the end of the month. It went exactly as could be expected – I had all kinds of talk about how she’d never had a home, suddenly talking of her father, her ex boyfriends, no money, tears, that she had only come here to help me(???)…. I (probably stupidly) told her that it sounded like a manipulation, I wasn’t interested in that stuff right now, It had nothing to do with THIS situation, that she knows my feelings and wishes and I dont want to discuss it further I just want her to do it…. I hope all goes smoothly she’s not out yet!
It was really uncomfortable but I already feel so much better. I hope this is a lesson I dont forget in a hurry – that I dont have to compromise my life, my space trying to be ‘nice’.
After this I am thinking that I pretty much want to wash my hands of the whole family for now at least – there is so much going on with them -generations of it – that I am no longer interested in ‘understanding’ I just dont want it in my life.
xxxxx
Thank you and BIG loves to you both.xx
*Update* She viewed A flat yesterday – as to be expected: she called me from where she had gotten off the bus in the wrong place (although I had given her CLEAR instructions about where to get off – its in the area I used to live) and was ‘lost’, then of course the area was ‘really rough’ (this was where I used to live and its perfectly fine – a bit studenty but beggars cant be choosers you know!) the flat ‘smelled funny’ and she ‘didnt like the land lord’ and was ‘too exhausted’ after the trauma of it all to look/call anyone else (not too exhausted to get dressed up to the nines and go out though), and of course ‘estate agents are closed on Sundays’ and she ‘cant call agents from work’…the other options I had found her were too expensive(??? £300pcm for a new central apartment share including bills?) and blah -di blah -di blah. Yawn. yawn. yawn.Yep she is going to drag this to the booting out point.
P.S – end of month and no move? – the locks get changed.
I cant fight the urge to say – isnt it ridiculous that I still find it so hard to assert myself. (I will try to resist the negative feelings that come along with this statement… I will do better next time.)
Blue:
GOOD FOR YOU!!!!!! I am really glad you did it…..got it off your chest and did it quick!!!
Listen….we all have our lives to lead…and you know, better than anyone that people don’t rescue YOU…..so we need to stop the caretaking……which always turns bad for us!!!
It’s time for us to be ‘selfish’ if that’s what anyone would call it……NOT….and take care of US, our needs, our comfort levels, our security and OUR lives!!!
Ain’t nobody wiping our asses…..so why is it we feel the need to wipe everyone elses that comes to us with dirty diapers?
I’m really thrilled you ‘took care of business’. Recognize how it felt/feels for the next time you need to speak up on your boundaries……
YEAH BLUE,YEAH BLUE!!!!
Go getem girl!
Hang tough with your ‘new balls’.
Blueskies —
YOU DID IT! You put the wheels in motion! Wooo hooo! Stay on it – the end of month will be here before you know it! Suggest weekend appointments to check out places with her. I meant to tell you that the manipulation could follow with in the next week or so – so be on your toes. If she says something negaative or controlling – shoot it down with things like — Hey, Im still your Aunt and this is MY home – Im in charge in my home silly lady! Stuff that shows youre not backing down — and that you are not willing to become confrontational and at same time not a Wuss!!!!
And re: asserting yourself. You did so when you were ready! In the past you may not have done it for another year or so!!!! You are making great progress in boundaries and assertion. We never know when we are going to be taken advantage of – so we LEARN to let people EARN our trust and understanding – when they give us red flags or we feel uncomfortable – WE TAKE ACTION – instead of letting them take control!
Youre doing it Blue – focus on that fact and build from it.
Keep us posted. Remember you are in charge – this is YOUR home! I didnt realize your son was about my sons age…thats good he wont be around if she acts up! Have a great day! Gotta love EB’s posts – they totally crack me up -sending me out of the house giggling the mornings I read any of her posts!!! xoxo to u Blueskies
Thanks:) will keep you posted:)x Me too LTL – “Ain’t nobody wiping our asses”..so why is it we feel the need to wipe everyone elses that comes to us with dirty diapers?” I nearly fell off my chair!! Love it Erin:)x
I still wonder to this day if Rebecca was a sociopath or borderline.I’ve been through all the stages of the grieving process of this unreal betrayal so I’m in a better place now but it was shocking and embarrassing that I thought she was a real friend.
This is really nothing compared to some of some of these horrendous stories on these boards but I would like if you all weighed in on this one.
People that I’ve told this story too say Rebecca was just really sick and Borderline not necessarily a sociopath. She had all the sociopathic traits manipulation pathological lying and she used her soft spoken voice,sticky sappy southern drawl and her calm demeanor as what I now know to be a deceitful veneer.She was even fascinated with sociopaths and recommended the book ‘The Sociopath next door” to me I’ve pondered over the years,did a sociopath really suggest this book to me? WOW!
It seems crazy to me now that I thought she was this balanced sweet sincere friend who I trusted with my heart and soul.
Here’s a little history,and the story.It’s long and heavy so pull up a chair,light a cigarette,grab a cup of Jo and try to fathom this inanity and ball of dysfunction…Ouch.It hurts already.
I met her years ago when we lived in the same apartment building in Chicago,and we become really good friends.
I had made a few bad life choices in a financial stressful time in my life and started escorting on and off for about a year or two (yes it’s the same thing as prostitution) she was in between jobs and worked in the medical field I had confided in her I had done this and the money was good so a few months later she came to me telling me she was out of savings for her bills so she asked me to arrange it so she could do this for awhile,she ended up doing it as well only for about six months eventually she landed a excellent job in her field and moved on with her regular health care work and I started getting acting jobs and bartending again but the friendship was on and off,she cut me off for long periods of time and wouldn’t talk to me then she would reappear it was very hot and cold and it seemed as though she would see me in this amazing light one minute and as quick as that started it changed into pure resentment towards me this is a borderline trait “All good or all bad”.She never gave me a solid reason for this behavior when I asked her about it. She had shared with me she was molested by her step father and was estranged from her mother because she had been terribly abused by her and abandoned her as a child in public places only to have the police bring her home. I took all this into account.
Years later after falling off each others radar we reconnected. I was living in California,living my dream,acting writing and bartending nights. I thought it was strange we never spoke at all about having prostituted or she never mentioned anything about it but I didn’t think much of it. I was really happy,had good friends and she seemed to be as well and we both seemed to be in much more solid places in our lives.I thought all was great and our friendship was deep and genuine we talked constantly on the phone,emails ,and she even made a few trips out to California to see check out film schools.I considered her my best,dearest friend at this point.
BIZARRE EMAIL #1
One day I got a strange email from a woman who claimed she was the wife of client I saw in Chicago as a escort she had a private investigator find me and she knew all about me even that I was living in L.A now pursuing a dream of acting and writing. She was suing me for $200,000 because I had sex with her husband for two years while I had done that and contracted herpes to him which she got from him. She was suing me for pain and suffering ,and going against her lawyers wishes and sending me this email. If I didn’t pay her this money I would either go to jail or their would be a very public trial and humiliate me.This email was unbelievable,cruel and malicious and downright sick,it basically kept stressing “you need to face what you’ve done”,”you need to pay for what you’ve done”,”you’re just a prostitute and that’s all you’ll ever be”.The email was shame based and meant to belittle me like any sociopath gets a kick out of doing. The email demanded a response back ASAP to make arrangements to pay them off,after consulting an attorney he said DO NOT t respond and we made arrangements for him to draft something up and send it to her email to back off and that’s extortion and malicious intent and we would go after her. I contacted Rebecca right away for consoling because she was the one friend who shared the same secret.She seemed unusually calm while I shared this bizarre email almost like she was trying to hear if I was scared or panic stricken She told me she thought I was handling it well and not panicking. I shared with her everything I was going to do with the lawyer,every now and then she would throw in a comment about the psychological make up of a person who does something like this and we ended it with her telling me to keep her posted and to not worry about it,it’s just someone playing some kind of sick joke,shortly after getting off the phone with her I got another email from that same account that said “I don’t have lawyer,you did see my husband I do have herpes but I don’t blame you and I’m not suing you,it was my friend who wrote that email she gets upset every now and then because I get sick from it,please disregard this email and the prior one.” WTF?
I have a friend who is an LAPD officer and who I met in an acting class luckily I shared with her that part of my life so I shard this email with her. She asked me who I still keep in touch with from that part of my life that knows me now. I told her Rebecca is the only one. She told me right away it was her.She wanted an email of hers and the header so she could compare it with this mystery email account. I blew it off I was appalled and crushed she would ever suspect this dear friend of mine.
I never pursued it or bothered to find out who it was because I was more relieved than anything not to have to go through the hassle of paying for a lawyer etc but I kept the email. I also wanted to just forget it because that was something in the past and this is something a sociopath would know to do to use shame on one so they just take the abuse.
Fast Forward almost exactly a year later when she was getting ready to move out to LA. to go to film school We were getting ready to move in together and I was so excited to have a longtime friend to live with. We were both looking on Craiglsist and I was of course going on all the apartment checkouts and reporting back to her everything seemed on track until I got this
BIZARRE EMAIL #2
I got from of course another made up hotmail account telling me they got my name and email from a friend of a friend in my Buddhist community that said I was looking for a place.and they have a great offer for a guest house,the email went into detail about the details of the design and it was free.It also stressed only I could live there and they don’t want two people there. all I would need to do is be present twice a week at a specific time while the gardener and pool man come since they were out of town for months at a time,however I would have to wait about a month to see it since she was out of the country. This was an amazing offer I couldn’t refuse.free rent in a nice two bedroom guest house. I started asking around my Buddhist community to everyone but nobody knew who I was talking about in the mean time I was elated with this amazing offer I contacted Rebecca right away to tell her and she told me she understood and would do the same thing she quickly followed up by saying “Will you at least go check out apartments for me,that I find on Craigslist?” since she was still not in town. to which I of course replied Yes no problem I’d love to ,so all the while thinking I already had a place to live and having given my notice at my building Several good friends knocked me over the head with a pile of bricks and said you need to contact this woman and tell her you either need to be able to check it out now and or talk to her over the phone at least since I couldn’t verify one soul in my entire Buddhist community that ever gave my name or email to someone looking for a renter.Remember I’m sharing all these concerns and doughts with Rebecca all the while and then I would amazingly get an email from this woman renter reminding me everything is still in place and to not worry.
I sent this mystery renter an email telling her I need to meet her ,talk to her on the phone and see the place ASAP or else I can’t take this seriously especially since she couldn’t give me a name of who recommended me.I got an email back telling me it was a joke and an old woman playing on the computer of the family to which she lives.WTF?
This is when I knew the two emails were connected and I had to find out. I started contacting these email address providers abuse department and found out the ISP number from both emails were the same. I was sharing all this info with Rebecca and this is when she became unraveled and started to panic because now I was lookijng into pressing charges. I wanted to know who this was so my police officer friend brought up rebecca again I started to question her about it,she did the most bizarre thing and frantically started writing me emails from all these fake accounts including the one a year earlier saying if you go to the authorities you will go to jail for having prostitute and you’ll be shamed.She basically told me this was all a practical joke and I deserved it all because I had slept with people husbands and she wanted to see me suffer.I was in state of shock as to why this person I had known for years had written me these malicious underhanded emails and what was her point? Then I’d get a frantic email from Rebecca’s account basically telling me the same thing
Yes after I found this out I changes my number and blocked her out of my life FOREVER!!! She never came claen or gave me a logical explanation for this betrayal. No apology nothing,was she just embarassed and really sorry or did she perhaps really feel no remorse for thi?. Her only response in her last email was” I wrote them both and I did it to see you sweat!” This sounds like a cold blooded sociopath!
This took me along time to process because it was such a unreal betrayal and for what? I’m embarrassed I never suspected her in any of this until the very end. I had to grieve the loss of s friendship that never even existed with someone I never even knew.This was hard to fathom! Was she really a sociopath and got off on trying cause shame and see me self destruct for her own sick pleasure or does she sound more borderline? I still wonder about this from time to time, I think we all look back on our lives wondering of this person may have been a sociopath given the information I gave here what do you all think?