We know only too well that by far the majority of psychopaths are men. Or at least we think we know that. Could it be that the criteria used to identify psychopaths are biased towards men? After all Hare began his work in male prison.
Think about it. While behaving and being the way the PCL-R without doubt earns one the label psychopath, this is simply a list of symptoms. It says nothing about the underlying dynamics. If psychopathy is life centered on the principle of power (as opposed to love) and if it is therefore characterised by what Liane Leedom nicely calls ‘warped empathy‘, then wouldn’t you expect there to be more or less the same number of woman as men psychopaths? And wouldn’t you expect them to come across differently?
I am beginning to wonder whether there may be two broad types of psychopathy – a ‘male’-type and a ‘female’-type. I place these in quotes because, when I think about it, men with might be thought of as ‘female’ psychopathy come to mind and we all know about women with ‘male’ psychopathy. And yet, at the risk of being un-PC, I want to maintain these descriptors for now so that the difference I think I see doesn’t disappear.
A ‘female’ psychopath would not necessarily commit crimianl/antisocial acts like her male counterpart, but she woud be as power-driven, as toxically narcissistic as a ‘male’ psychopath. The control, the manipulation, the dishonesty, the selfishness, the callousness – all these would be present, but we might not recognise them for what they are because of 1. media portrayal and 2. medical diagnosis of psychopaths. The difference would come in the gendered style of their behaviour.
In my clinical work I have come across this phenomenon. For example, a woman I now consider to be of the ‘female’-type of psychopath didn’t come close to committing a crime and yet the way she mothered her daughter, my patient, came close to destroying the child’s mind. This seems to me to be a perversion of motherhood eqivalent to the perversion of fatherhood we read about on this website.
Do readers have any comments? I’m particularly interested in any examples you might have of how ‘female’ psychopathy – if such a thing does exist – manifests itself?
Dear Zen and Gem,
If you two haven’t taken the SURVEY here that Donna will forward to the committee working on the DSM V (the diagnostic manual) please DO SO. Donna had asked in particular that people whose psychopaths were female in particular fill out this survey. In the past mostly males were diagnosed with personality disorder (whatever they called it at the time) but females were more likely to be diagnosed as something else, when frankly, there ARE females and they are as bad as the male versions.
Fill out a survey for every psychopath that you have been closely involved with enough to “know” them pretty well.
OxDrover
I did complete the survey ! I honestly thought I was being hypercritical or something but when I told someone some of the things that were happening, it was suggested that perhaps she is a sociopath. I dismissed it at first thinking that is a category for criminals/murders but in searching for answers I found this site. I will say it’s pretty much confirmed in my mind that she in fact is. There is SO much, little things that didn’t strike me as part of a larger picture. I thought maybe she was borderline but I don’t think so.
Zen:
“…what amazes me is that to me this is obvious re this person but isn’t to the ones closest to her who it would seem would be aware.”
I think the greater the emotional investment, the more blind the person will be to what the disordered personality is really doing.
Because you are not “in love” with this person, you see her for what she is, while the target would probably give her the benefit of the doubt…over and over again.
Also, a psychopath will put a lot of energy into convincing their target that they are a “best friend” or “soulmate”.
But, they do not put the same effort into the people in the periphery. These varmits are lazy.
Therefore, you are probably seeing things differently than the victim.
It’s sort of like the line, “You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you are never gonna fool ALL of the people ALL of the time.”
rosa said: I think the greater the emotional investment, the more blind the person will be to what the disordered personality is really doing.
Yep, that’s how my daddy got away with his shit for sooooo long.
ouu, writing that i just understood his game at a deeper level. the gaslighting part or it…we are somehow lacking if we stand for ourselves and what is right. we are disordered, NOT them.
ahhh, may all the fuckers die horrid deaths…which is kinder than wishing they burn in hell – that’s not a time limited experience.
Dear Zen,
Sometimes I think that putting all the pieces together to form the “big picture” is difficult, and it is the huge number of pieces in the puzzle that we have to have to SEE IT CLEARLY.
Sometimes person A will have pieces 1-100 and person B will have pieces 101-500 and so on, so that unless we all add our pieces together it is difficult for any one person to see the “picture”—many times they leave big holes in their wakes as they move from victim to victim and so no one person sees enough to know what is going on, and if you do start too get an IDEA of what is going on, others will TRIVGALIZE your interpretation of the “picture” and tell you you are wrong. That gaslighting or uninformed opinion(s) sometimes makes us think WE are the crazy ones.
It is only when we are able to SEE CLEARLY what we are dealing with and NOT LET ANYONE ELSE TALK US OUT OF WHAT WE SEE….EVEN OURSELVES….that we can extricate ourselves from their web.
Personally, I think most if not many Women labeled “borderline PD” are in fact, psychopaths. They may be a bit different but there are too many similarities fror them not to be just a female version of the male “psychopath.” ALL of the “cluster B” diagnoses are for very TOXIC people no matter what you call them…..a rose is a rose, i.e. or in their case, a pile of chit, is a pile of chit.
Rosa & OxDrover
I think you’re right Rosa when you mention the emotional investment clouding their view. Also, there is the fact that many people have a very hard time admitting they’re wrong about something cause in doing so in regard to sociopaths they must acknowledge they were made fools of and duped. Not an easy thing to face. In trying to reveal a sociopath to a victim you’re basically ‘attacking’ that person. Not purposefully but it would point to the fact they were taken in.
OxDrover
You’re right also, we only see a piece of the puzzle, what the sociopath wants us to see, what they’ve revealed to us.
The one I know was very very concerned that I would run into one of her ‘business associates’. I told her that I didn’t care what was said that my opinion wouldn’t be framed by what they said. Secretly I was in hopes I would run into that person to hear what they had to say. That would’ve been very interesting to say the least.
There is another woman I know I’ve not seen her in several years but friends have said she’s a borderline but looking back now that I am a bit more informed I think she’s a sociopath as well. And very very toxic just like a pile of chit! 😛
I have to tell you Ox Drover that at this moment I’m pretty Pissed-off. I would like to know if your above post is a deliberate slam toward me?
I shared a bit of myself with Star-gazer just a couple of days ago in which I admitted I had some BP issues…( I am not alone in that), but I don’t talk much about it because of what I’ve just experienced…I don’t trust people to know anything about it, and I’m afraid I’ll be judged….So, thank-you for that. I just want to know if it was ignorance or just pure meanness on your part.
I’m tempted to hit the abusive comment button.
I feel physically sick. I’m signing off.
Kim, If you shared something aobut BPD with anyone recently, I didn’t see it. Secondly you had mentioned a year or more ago, at least a long time ago, that someone had DX you with BPD, but you know, I told you THEN and I will tell you NOW, I do not see any tendencies to BPD in you and I was NOT in any way attacking you in any manner.
Have you ever known me to attack anyone? (outside of “boinking” someone I care about on the head in semi-jest?)
Kim, I’m am so absolutely sorry if I made you angry or hurt your feelings. In fact, I saw this when I came back after reading the article you posted the link for, to discuss it with you,, I think your insights are very interesting on that.
The label “BPD” is sometimes hung on people who are more victims than abusers (especially female ones) and I don’t “buy” every diagnostic label that is hung on everyone who has ever been to a therapist or psychiatrist. You know yourself how many of them (therapists) “don’t get it”—I would NEVER DELIBERATELY HURT YOU, IN ANY WAY, AND I AM DEVESTATED THAT YOU ARE HURT EVEN UNINTENTIONALLY ON MY PART. I’m sorry. Love Oxy
I’m confused……
BP I thought was Bi-Polar
BPD I thought was Borderline Personality Disorder….
Are we getting initials right……and on the ‘same page’?
Sorry to ‘butt in’…..