We know only too well that by far the majority of psychopaths are men. Or at least we think we know that. Could it be that the criteria used to identify psychopaths are biased towards men? After all Hare began his work in male prison.
Think about it. While behaving and being the way the PCL-R without doubt earns one the label psychopath, this is simply a list of symptoms. It says nothing about the underlying dynamics. If psychopathy is life centered on the principle of power (as opposed to love) and if it is therefore characterised by what Liane Leedom nicely calls ‘warped empathy‘, then wouldn’t you expect there to be more or less the same number of woman as men psychopaths? And wouldn’t you expect them to come across differently?
I am beginning to wonder whether there may be two broad types of psychopathy – a ‘male’-type and a ‘female’-type. I place these in quotes because, when I think about it, men with might be thought of as ‘female’ psychopathy come to mind and we all know about women with ‘male’ psychopathy. And yet, at the risk of being un-PC, I want to maintain these descriptors for now so that the difference I think I see doesn’t disappear.
A ‘female’ psychopath would not necessarily commit crimianl/antisocial acts like her male counterpart, but she woud be as power-driven, as toxically narcissistic as a ‘male’ psychopath. The control, the manipulation, the dishonesty, the selfishness, the callousness – all these would be present, but we might not recognise them for what they are because of 1. media portrayal and 2. medical diagnosis of psychopaths. The difference would come in the gendered style of their behaviour.
In my clinical work I have come across this phenomenon. For example, a woman I now consider to be of the ‘female’-type of psychopath didn’t come close to committing a crime and yet the way she mothered her daughter, my patient, came close to destroying the child’s mind. This seems to me to be a perversion of motherhood eqivalent to the perversion of fatherhood we read about on this website.
Do readers have any comments? I’m particularly interested in any examples you might have of how ‘female’ psychopathy – if such a thing does exist – manifests itself?
My Sisters baby sitter want me that was my first time being attacked by a women :)~ It was’nt all bad :)~
Blogger T
Very GOOD POINT!
I dont know if you saw my post but this is The Good old boy, Red neck , Rights of passage ! If a women takes advantage of a young man or boy it is viewed as right of passage and If a man takes advantage of a young women or a girl it is called rape! Double Standard ! I know this is not Politicaly correct but it is the truth our society has many double standards when we view the sexes. It’s time to grow up and call people people ! LOVE jere
WOW
Dear inthebreach,
this woman had a son with muscular dystrophy and the daughter. the daughter was rebellious and uncontrollable by age 13 or 14. She was allowed to get her way by throwing fits and becoming physically violent. The son was in a WC by the time my son met this woman on the interent and so she was looking for a “meal ticket” and found one in my son.
She immediately started isolating him from the family and we had little contact with him for several years. When her son’s impending death was not long away, she started the affair with the Trojan Horse Psychopath that had infiltrated our family. (We found S & M photographs of her naked in his camera after his and her arrest) When he was unable to find me to kill me, they decided to steal the money from my mother had been persuaded by my DIL and the TH-P that I was “after her money” (mother had put it in an account with my DIL able to sign for it “in trust.”) So when my son found out about the affair and offered to go to counseling with her or whatever it took to salvage the marriage. She agreed to this without any intention of following through, instead she stole the money, bought guns for him and herself and made the plot to kill him, making it look like “self defense”—unfortunately for her, it was a felony for her to knowingly buy a gun for her BF who was an ex-convict, so she went to jail too, when my son managed to get to 911 before her boyfrind with the gun could push through the door. I thank God that my son was able to hold the door closed and that the police were close by when the call was received. (She was trying to take the phone out of his hand while he was dialing while her BF was trying to push through the door.)
Yes,, the chaos does run for generations. There is both the genetic part and the enviornmental part. I know very little about the woman’s family background except that there are many men in her family who have had muscular dystrophy and she decided to have children knowing she could be giving birth to such a son, also that her daughters could be carriers. She did not get tested “cause I don’t want to know” Her daughter also did not get tested for the gene and she has had one pregnancy already (with her meth-head boy friend) and fortunately she lost the baby with an ectopic pregnancy.
This girl did not finish high school, my son did get her into Job Corps at age 22, but that didn’t last long as she didn’t approve of al the “stupid rules” they had…like getting up before noon, and not thowing violent fits if she didn’t get her way. She has no job skills and has no desire to learn any. The only job she ever had lasted 2 weeks because she was bored stocking shelves.
Several years before all of this I had to ban her from my home unless either my son or his wife were with her because she was so sexually inappropriate with my other son D, 2 days after the airplane crash that killed my husband and burned son D pretty badly. Even with the house full of people the only way I can describe her behavior in front of these people is like a “dog humping your leg.” I tried to talk to her mother about this and she said (this will make you laugh) “Well, how is she supposed to know how to behave if no one teachers her?”
I told her mother that I thought it was HER job to teach her daughter how to behave in public NOT MINE. (this did not endear me to the DIL) What I told my son C, priavetely was “Don’t bring her to my house unless she has a choke chain around her neck and YOU have the leash in your hand.”
At every “family” meal, like Thanksgiving etc., (about the only time we saw them) both of the “children” (older teenagers) would be rude, misbehave and be obnoxious. DIL would make “attempts” to “shush them” or to control them, but never successful. My son’s attempts to teach the children manners or encourage them to go to school or to work were totally thwarted by his now-X wife. She never worked, but she managed the pay check he brought home. (to the deteriment of his credit I might mention.)
My son was aware that his “marriage” was a miserable night mare but he “kept up a front” and didn’t complain to any of the family or let anyone know what was going on. I knew he was depressed and guessed it wasn’t great but I never realized just HOW bad it was, with her throwing fits, hitting him (trying to “provoke” him to hit her back, which he would not do). My son had committed himself to the marriage “for life” and I think that he would have stuck with it if his wife hadn’t tried to kill him. No matter how miserable he was he would not have left her or thrown her out.
She had found the “perfect patsy” and she milked my son for all he was worth. I had figured she wouldn’t stay around long after her son died, and she started the affair about 2 months before the son died. The attempt to kill my son was about a month after her son died.
My son packed his stuff and left the farm about 2 weeks after she was arrested. He has been living in another state, living with an old high school friend and working. He came home for visits and for his divorce hearing. He is moving back to the farm tomorrow. His roommate has just moved his personality disordered GF into the home and my son isn’t up to putting up with that, so decided to come home. She’s already made one suicide gesture and several other things for “drama.”
He’s actually done a pretty good job in his healing, but hasn’t got a lot of “reserve emotional energy” to cope with that much “drama.” I’m so glad he is coming home! The farm has been our sanctuary and will continue to be. I’m proud of my son, he has a good heart and is a good man. He’s intelligent, college educated, hard working, responsible, kind and compassionate, which isn’t too bad considering he was one of the most hyper ADHD kids I ever saw! I’ve never seen him do a mean thing in his life or do an unkind act since he shot a cow in the butt with his BB gun when He was 8 or 9 just to see her jump! He actually wasn’t trying to hurt her or aware it could have hurt, he just enjoyed startling her. He did get grounded “for the next 10 years” though! LOL
C doesn’t post here but he does come here to read, and he ‘s learned a lot about psychopaths. He is NC with his P-brother, and he and I have a good relationship again.
Now that I am a few months out of all this and back home, etc. I can look back at all this chaos and pain with a positive slant. Without all this mess my son C would still be married to that witch, so frankly, it has all been a “worth it” in the end. “All things work together for GOOD to those that Love the Lord.” So sometimes though we don’t see it at the time it is happening (and painful) any thing, no matter how horrible can turn out to be a blessing when it is all said and done. I truly feel like this has been one of those cases. It was cheap at “twice the price.”
Ox Drover,
Utterly, unspeakably evil. Your x-dil is locked up for a long time I hope. I just cannot fathom how you and your sons got through this..and then to lose one. Still living but you can’t have him in your life. I am happy C is coming home and maybe it was good for him to be away for awhile, so homecoming will be closure of sorts. Sure evidence of his healing and the things he has learned to recognise as red flags is the roomates girlfriends pity and power plays. He knows to walk away from that situation..that is wisdom and experience.
The bb gun incident is so typical of onery kid stage. They do such silly things that tick you off at the time, but then you look back and see the humor. My grown girls are funny but my son, at 9 already rivals them in the humor department. Sometimes I have to remind myself he is only 9 because his humor is beyond his years quite often. When he is telling me something funny I have the habit of pulling my glasses down to focus because I am one of those people who get teared up when I laugh out loud. He knows he got me when the glasses are being pulled away.
So far he hasn’t noticed I am the oldest mom at school. I am praying this lasts a bit longer and no one refers to me as his grandma. Can’t wait for that day!!
BloggerT7165 has some informative and intersting posts on here. Is he a therapist too? His title and subject on female sociopaths was interesting and I wonder if he is a therapist if he is seeing these women come through his practice more and more. I didn’t read the side blog on women abusers because the one he posted about the woman who abused her precious son made me sick a bit to my stomach. If I were a therapist, and I think I am one of few on here that isn’t, I would NEED a therapist after dealing with some of the patience they counsel. Good grief Gerty, I don’t think I could sleep again.
I am sending love and prayers to you and C and guess what OxDrover? Your son is going to be home for Thanksgiving and Christmas. You are going to end this year beautifully and think of all the good company the two of you will be for one another. I am smiling! In Christ, Breach
OxDrover,
Did I spell Patients wrong? Does no good to be a perfectionist when half my punctuation is off the mark. Don’t think anyone is going to give a flip about it! Geez! Time to go to bed> Night
Dear Breach,
Thank you for that affirmative response. Yes, C was a “difficult” child to raise, but looking back on it I can definitely see the humor in most of it. He was never a “bad” kid, just an ACTIVE one. I looked out the window one morning about daylight when I heard his voice shout “Hi, Mom!” He was about 6 yrs old and had hand-over-handed up a 50 ft rope into the top of a very tall tree and was holding on with one hand, and waving with the other. I about had a heart attack and choked back my natural inclination to scream “GET DOWN OUT OF THAT TREE NOW” and I said, instead, “Hi, sweetie, come on in for breakfast now!” Of course I also had to stiffle my inclination to strangle him for scaring me so much!
I despaired he would be able to grow up without killing himself. He wrecked every vehicle he owned til he was 25, but never got a scratch–thank you Jesus!~ He turned over his milk at every meal. He couldn’t carry anything without dropping and breaking it if it would break. But he was always so cheerful and happy and took everything in stride except learning his multiplication tables! He didn’t see any need to memorize them if he could count on his fingers fast enough. LOL
I’m so happy that he is living P-free and that he was able to recognize the RED FLAGS in his roomie’s GF, and also that he didn’t try to “save” his roomie from himself. He just made the decison to move, and he decided to move home instead of across town. He told me, “mom, I need to come home to the farm, my sanctuary.” He loves this place as much as I do and it is our sanctuary. I won’t let the black cloud that hovered over it for a while take that away from us.
We’re having good friends over for TG dinner, and it will be a CELEBRATION like we haven’t had in years! And believe me, we have MUCH TO BE THANKFUL FOR, LIVING P-FREE IS THE BEST ONE!
It is interesting you bring up this topic. I have been considering the relationship between psychopathic personality traits and criminality. I am coming to the conclusion that the “successful psychopath” does not really exist. They all seem to be criminal on some level. If success is not getting caught, it is only a matter of time. Check out this abstract and reference:
“In this study we examined gender differences in the PCL:SV employing a variety of statistical methods with two subsets of psychopathic individuals drawn from larger samples of 129 female and 499 male Swedish offenders. The larger samples included forensic psychiatric patients, forensic psychiatric evaluees and criminal offenders. We found gender differences in antisocial behavior, as defined in factor 2 of the PCL:SV, with female psychopaths (PCL:SV ≥ 18) displaying significantly more lying, deceitfulness and lack of control, while male psychopaths were more antisocial as measured by the PCL:SV. We conclude that it might be meaningful to use gender specific definitions in the assessment of psychopathy or, alternatively, slightly revise the diagnostic tools. Our results support the use of the three-factor model of the PCL-R and PCL:SV introduced by Cooke and Michie (2001) in female populations.”
Gender differences in psychopathy in a Swedish offender sample. Behavioral Sciences & the Law, Vol 23(6), 2005. pp. 837-850.
This study found criminality to be central to psychopathy and also found no relationship between the interpersonl facet and criminality. That may suggest that those who only have grandiosity, lying, decit and manipulation but not impulsivity, recklessness and boredom proneness are a different group.
Psychopathy and offending behaviour: Findings
from the national survey of prisoners in England
and Wales The Journal of Forensic Psychiatry & Psychology,
March 2007; 18(1): 23 ”“ 43
Then there is this:
Psychopathy in Female Offenders: An Investigation of Its Underlying Dimensions – Criminal Justice and Behavior 2002; 29; 692
Psychopathy is an important clinical construct in explaining criminal behavior, determining the likelihood of treatment response, and evaluating risk assessment. The majority of past research has focused on male offenders or male forensic patients. Psychopathy in females is relatively unexplored. The current study was designed to further investigate the underlying dimensions of psychopathy in females. Utilizing a sample of 119 female inmates from a large metropolitan area
jail, a series of confirmatory factor analyses was undertaken. Previous research and clinical tradition suggest the use of a two-factor conceptualization of psychopathy. More recent research suggests that a three-factor model may better capture the underlying dimensions of psychopathy. Two-factor models of psychopathy were not confirmed. However, the three-factor model reproduced the data extremely well. Clinical and research implications of this finding are addressed.
And this:
The two-factor models of psychopathy as propounded by Hare (1991) and Salekin et al. (1997) represented a poor fit for the current data,3 with none of the fit indices even approaching an acceptable standard. Although plainly requiring further studies with forensic and nonforensic samples, the current data strongly question the applicability of the two-factor models.
And this piece is interesting(emphasis mine):
In contrast with the two-factor models, the Cooke and Michie
(2001) three-factor model with testlets appears to have considerable promise in capturing the underlying dimensions of psychopathy among female offenders. Among females, the most salient dimension appears to be the lack of emotional range and empathy as evidenced by the very high factor loadings on Testlets 3 and 4 (.94 and 1.0, respectively).
In examining these testlets, which constitute the DAE factor,
the prominent items include callousness, lack of remorse, and shallow affect. These results suggest that deficits in affect are a prominent feature that strongly discriminates psychopathic from nonpsychopathic females.
And DrSteve – ’female’ psychopathy – if such a thing does exist – manifests itself?:
I think that as time goes by more studies like this one below will help to highlight that it most certainly does and has existed since day one. (emphasis in abstract is mine)
Childhood Maltreatment and Cluster B Personality Pathology in Female Serious Offenders
Ann Booker Loper, Negar Mahmoodzadegan, Janet I. Warren
University of Virginia
Sexual Abuse: A Journal of Research and Treatment
Volume 20 Number 2 June 2008 139-160
The authors examined early maltreatment among serious female offenders at a maximum security correctional facility, contrasting the maltreatment histories of inmates with and without Cluster B personality pathology. Women were interviewed regarding the frequency of 13 indicators of psychological or physical abuse perpetrated by maternal or paternal caregivers and the frequency of 10 types of sexual abuse perpetrated by persons at least 5 years older. Reports were based on inmates’ recollected worst years of maltreatment before age 16. Women in both diagnostic groups reported substantial early maltreatment. Cluster B inmates reported higher levels and a greater variety of maternal and paternal physical and psychological abuse but were not distinguished from non”“Cluster B inmates on levels of childhood sexual abuse. Inmates reported more physical and psychological abuse from maternal than paternal caregivers. The results document the high levels of childhood maltreatment of female prisoners and the relevance of this history to personality pathology.