We know only too well that by far the majority of psychopaths are men. Or at least we think we know that. Could it be that the criteria used to identify psychopaths are biased towards men? After all Hare began his work in male prison.
Think about it. While behaving and being the way the PCL-R without doubt earns one the label psychopath, this is simply a list of symptoms. It says nothing about the underlying dynamics. If psychopathy is life centered on the principle of power (as opposed to love) and if it is therefore characterised by what Liane Leedom nicely calls ‘warped empathy‘, then wouldn’t you expect there to be more or less the same number of woman as men psychopaths? And wouldn’t you expect them to come across differently?
I am beginning to wonder whether there may be two broad types of psychopathy – a ‘male’-type and a ‘female’-type. I place these in quotes because, when I think about it, men with might be thought of as ‘female’ psychopathy come to mind and we all know about women with ‘male’ psychopathy. And yet, at the risk of being un-PC, I want to maintain these descriptors for now so that the difference I think I see doesn’t disappear.
A ‘female’ psychopath would not necessarily commit crimianl/antisocial acts like her male counterpart, but she woud be as power-driven, as toxically narcissistic as a ‘male’ psychopath. The control, the manipulation, the dishonesty, the selfishness, the callousness – all these would be present, but we might not recognise them for what they are because of 1. media portrayal and 2. medical diagnosis of psychopaths. The difference would come in the gendered style of their behaviour.
In my clinical work I have come across this phenomenon. For example, a woman I now consider to be of the ‘female’-type of psychopath didn’t come close to committing a crime and yet the way she mothered her daughter, my patient, came close to destroying the child’s mind. This seems to me to be a perversion of motherhood eqivalent to the perversion of fatherhood we read about on this website.
Do readers have any comments? I’m particularly interested in any examples you might have of how ‘female’ psychopathy – if such a thing does exist – manifests itself?
Dear Creampuff,
I didn’t realize you also had a P-bio-dtr, I thought it was just the step-ddtr from hell…welcome to the “Rosemary’s Baby Club”—I swear the membership is getting a real boost lately here at LF. At least most of us have a real understanding of the VARIOUS different P-relationshits avaialbe from spouse to offspring! From parents to in-laws and OUT-laws.
The problems are that so many people are not able to do the ONLY thing that can “win” with psychopaths and that is NC because of collatteral damage to grandkids, etc. so you are here trying to figure out a way to LIVE WITH IT when there isn’t a way to really do that. My heart goes out to you. (((Hugs)))) and my prayers. Love Oxy
creampuff says:
“..IT’S GENETIC—..HAS TO BE !!!!!!!”
I’m sorry for everyone’s pain in regards to their children, I can’t even imagine.
This line made me cry. I come from a family of narcissists, borderlines, maybe even female sociopaths from what I’m reading on here and I used to think these things about myself years ago. I’ve come to learn, through reading and therapy, that I had learned traits – something I could change, something I have changed. I wasn’t taught “correctly” on so many things but I always had an inner feeling that things were wrong. I always fought back, which got me in more trouble, lol.
If I come from such a long line, how did I turn out so differently? How am I breaking the cycle? It’s not in my genes and I certainly wasn’t nurtured. My own child doesn’t trust our family and does not want to be around them – it’s not in his genes either (and we certainly look like our family, so no denying them 🙂 )
So maybe it goes to show each person has their own “trigger” at some point and makes a choice? I dunno. I’m always questioning, researching, learning.
I don’t think they choose…..they just are…my S-path stepdaughter has 2 girls…one has “it” the other one doesn’t .You could tell from the time they were toddlers…they can even be scary babies….my bio daughter has 4 kids….and so far I can tell it in only one of her kids…of course they are just messed up in general from being raised by this woman. So it is quite possible that you were born normal. They say 4% of the population is sociopathic…..I think it’s more…..way more…just think back in your own life how certain people just made your skin crawl and their behavior…I mean how do you even measure something like that?
And to Oxy, I know everything you say is right about the NC deal. And I know I rationalize it…but to go cold turkey with NC means I will never see my grandkids again..I will lose a wonderful man that I love so much…maybe I am just weak..I love the line about Rosemary’s baby club….too funny….my husband has no concept of sociopathy…I’ve tried explaining it to him, but he is so reluctant to label these daughters of ours….he is just one of those passive aggressive types that will do anything to avoid conflict…he’s just not a fighter even when he should be…and that has really pissed me off at him so many times….I think we all make trade offs in life, myself included..my girls are both S-path’s….but they are different in their personalities. My bio girl is wildly hyper and “in your face” type…while the step daughter is more cunning, behind the scenes, covetous type, which I find way more scary..she is the one that would stab you in the back, but she would be so cool about it you would never even feel it , until it is too late…I have as little contact with them as possible…I never call either one of them, I initiate NO conversation with them, I only put up with them at Holiday get togethers and birthday parties, etc.and even then, I just play with the kids and stay out of their way. I didn’t even give them my cell phone #. I am spending this Mother’s Day with my “normal” baby daughter 800 miles away….I won’t even have to look at these 2. My baby girl is 28 and she has barely any contact with her sisters..they have always been so jealous of her, and although she has tried to be close with them, they just won’t let her…so she got a job transfer and moved 800 miles away…and her life has improved so much, not having to deal with them….she loves them, they just don’t “share” her life. Thanks guys……you ALL are the greatest….sorry for this long rant…..!
Oxy……one more thing…I think you are a brilliant writer ! I learn more from your posts than I do from books on the subject..I hope you know you have an incredible insight and you are helping so many people on here….are you sure you are not a therapist by day?
{{{{Creampuff}}}} gentle hugs. Surrendering is a very hard decision to make, and I understand completely your concerns. I had to make that difficult decision the day that I told my ex that I wanted a divorce. I had been warned by a therapist that the fight would be nasty, and that he would do everything in his power to “pay me back” for leaving. I made my decision based upo the fact that I had to heal myself, first, if I had any hope of assisting either of my sons, in the future. I gambled, and I lost, and I knew the risks. I’m getting healthier and, one day, my youngest son may need the help and guidance. For now, I just maintain hope that he will reach out to someone, even if it isn’t me.
Believe me female socipaths exists, know what they do. Elizabrth Conley you describe female sociopaths as using their gender as a brilliant disguise. One female sociopath was caring for her terminally ill husband, whilst the same time abusing my elderly parents and slandering me specacularly. The knee jerk reaction? Fully support the female sociopath. Cue years later, deceived members of my family realising what had really happened. When females are in a position of vulnerability (pregnancy (my sis), or in the case above); their behaviour was in fact worse.
Female sociopaths rely heavily on males (in my experience) as they are naturally protective around a female. Females are different and I genuinely believe can identify more easily when a female sociopath is around them.
Can somebody please reval to me what NC means?
Outlier:
NC means No Contact. It’s how we recommend dealing with sociopaths.
Thank you Donna. I agree at ‘NC’. Sadly I am right in their headlights – protecting my parents and still getting abused by the day, but a hell of a lot knowledgable. I’ve been toying with the idea of doing a degree or some qualification in criminal psychology, but you know what? That was a way of pointing a middle finger back at my abusers. I’m very trapped. It’s a sick life both ends of the stick..
Um, I had no idea whilst writing the above that THE Donna Anderson just replied me. I feel rather touched you answered me :O) And btw, can I say I love you in a way that I have loved nobody else. You provide me something that only you can (this site and everybody you attract to post on here). You know how much you mean to us.
Utmost respect to you.