We know only too well that by far the majority of psychopaths are men. Or at least we think we know that. Could it be that the criteria used to identify psychopaths are biased towards men? After all Hare began his work in male prison.
Think about it. While behaving and being the way the PCL-R without doubt earns one the label psychopath, this is simply a list of symptoms. It says nothing about the underlying dynamics. If psychopathy is life centered on the principle of power (as opposed to love) and if it is therefore characterised by what Liane Leedom nicely calls ‘warped empathy‘, then wouldn’t you expect there to be more or less the same number of woman as men psychopaths? And wouldn’t you expect them to come across differently?
I am beginning to wonder whether there may be two broad types of psychopathy – a ‘male’-type and a ‘female’-type. I place these in quotes because, when I think about it, men with might be thought of as ‘female’ psychopathy come to mind and we all know about women with ‘male’ psychopathy. And yet, at the risk of being un-PC, I want to maintain these descriptors for now so that the difference I think I see doesn’t disappear.
A ‘female’ psychopath would not necessarily commit crimianl/antisocial acts like her male counterpart, but she woud be as power-driven, as toxically narcissistic as a ‘male’ psychopath. The control, the manipulation, the dishonesty, the selfishness, the callousness – all these would be present, but we might not recognise them for what they are because of 1. media portrayal and 2. medical diagnosis of psychopaths. The difference would come in the gendered style of their behaviour.
In my clinical work I have come across this phenomenon. For example, a woman I now consider to be of the ‘female’-type of psychopath didn’t come close to committing a crime and yet the way she mothered her daughter, my patient, came close to destroying the child’s mind. This seems to me to be a perversion of motherhood eqivalent to the perversion of fatherhood we read about on this website.
Do readers have any comments? I’m particularly interested in any examples you might have of how ‘female’ psychopathy – if such a thing does exist – manifests itself?
Actually, Outlier, the Lovefraud community takes care of us all. I’m just the admin.
Donna~
Don’t ever diminish your work………BOINK!
Much Much gratitute to you…..as the ‘end’ of the cliff has neared for the spath in my life!
It finally came FULL CIRCLE!!!!
LF has kept me sane, given me hope, empowered me and tought me so very much!
YOU KNOW…..I plan to do something with this all!!!!
To Outlier, you hit the nail on the head speaking about how females are more sensitive to picking up on a S-path female.
My s-path step daughter has every single man in her circle “on her side” Her Dad nor her husband would never cross her…they know how severe the punishment would be..so they go along never rocking the boat, just letting her be “her”….no one is allowed to speak badly of her or the men in her life will punish YOU…she married the most wonderful Christian boy and has totally turned him into exactly what she wanted..this has taken many years, but her success has been unbelievable. She has only worked a little in the last few years….she has been fired from countless jobs lately..so now she is NOT working….her husband works so hard to keep them all up…she has the mother in law (whom she hates) babysitting every weekend so she can go out “trolling” with her tacky friends. She never goes out with her husband…she has her Daddy (my husband) jumping through hoops to make her happy…she has it made !! All the women in the family (and the husband’s family) know what she is….and she just continues to get away with her secret life..You are right ..they are diabolically brilliant !! Then it’s like you lose yourself trying to stay one step ahead of them, which is futal..OxDrover is right….so many of us try to find a way to just live with it….because NC is so hard when there is extended family and kids involved….but NC really is the only answer…we can talk, discuss, and vent on here, but the hold they have on our lives is still there…they kill us slowly without ever picking up a weapon….and the worst part is:They are VERY patient ! Be careful.
Hi, everyone! sorry to have not responded in a while. I had a huge abcessed double molar out last Monday, and last yesterday,{sat.} had to go back to the Dentist,-thank God hes open for emergencies, -with a VERY painful dry socket. he put some grey sort of paste in the cavity, basically its exposed bone, which hurts.That plus a mouth wash I have to use 3 or 4 times a day. Not nearly so painful today, last friday Id have paid someone to shoot me!
By the way CreamPuff, I agree with everything you say re female sociopaths, my younger spath daughter has everyone running round her, her husband,{sorry lover, she wont marry him,} her rich jewish Mum in Law, her kids, her nanny,I have NC with her {her choice} for 17 years but now Im glad of it as shed only have used her kids to torture me with .
EB, TOWANDA Gal, re your ex spath getting his karma, finally!!
WhooHoo!On ya gal!! Love to all, MamaGem.XXX
I think it is easy to believe that the lack of emotional response and the lack of follow-thru is just a damaged woman and not a sociopath. They use this social norm to hide their lack of emotion. The blank stare when there should be outrage or pain. They don’t parent unless they fear some punishment or reprisal from those around – and only after allowing more time the the normal parent would to correct a behavior or offer support. They have no long term friendships except the family that keeps hoping someone will like them. They always have an excuse for the lack of friendship – and it is never something that needs to change in them. They act oblivious when caught in inconsistency and enjoy crossing your bounderies to see your reaction. Everyone feels sorry for the sociopathic woman – she makes sure they do.
Good points, Awakenow. My most recent experiences with a “female” friend is a prime example of what you’re describing. She would talk about losing twins at 8 months into the pregnancy, and it was so matter-of-fact – not a hitch in her speech or a drop of water from her eyes. That, alone, should have been a red flag for me!
Dear Creampuff,
Thank you, and I am really glad that you do get something from my posts. I want so very much for something good to come out of my decades of blindness to psychpathy!
Yes, they use the “pawns” within the family as coin to hook people into their webs and keep them there. Been there and got that Tee-shirt for sure. It is very painful, VERY VERY painful. At least I have been spared having grandkids to be tortured with. That is some consolation believe it or not even though I wanted grandkids so badly. Maybe my adoptive son will give me some eventually.
I suggest you get a book called “stalking the soul” about emotional abuse. It may give you some insight on how to survive since going NC is not an option for you at this point. (((hugs)))) and God bless. Oh, BTW great choice for Mother’s day. I learned to avoid the Ps and the trauma-drama of holidays by going somewhere else for the holidays.
I have always posted about my husband’s ex-wife when venting (and thank you soooo much, Creampuff, for the invitations and the understanding ear!!!). But we have for some time been dealing with another female sociopath in the form of my hubby’s sister. She has never personally targeted me (which is probably why I haven’t needed to vent), but she has always blamed her parents, my inlaws, for all her many problems, and has taken their help and money most ungraciously. My FIL has been made to feel so bad for the way her childhood was that when she blames him to his face, he breaks down and cries. She has four children with her first husband, the oldest being a 13 yr old boy, then an 11 yr old girl and so on. When I met my husband, his sister was going through a messy divorce with her husband. She claimed he had stalked her, raped her, stole from her, was unfit as a father, etc. I was left with a bad taste in my mouth for this guy. She had cheated on him though. He never cheated on her. She relied on my inlaws to pay her legal fees, fix up her house, buy her a dishwasher, mattresses for her kids’ beds, etc, all the time having the attitude that she would never have turned out the way she had if she hadn’t had such a crappy childhood (funny how her other 2 sisters and brother turned out okay…).
She soon got pregnant and had baby number 5. It was soon apparent that she was not a parent (stupid pun, I know). Her 13 year old son rocked the baby girl to sleep, changed her diapers, made and fed her the bottles, and she was even boasting that her son was so good with the baby he was like a father (!!!!!)
Fast forward to 2 weeks ago. My husband’s grandfather was on his deathbed in the hospital. Nobody in the family had a particularly great relationshi with him because he had a reputation of being kind of a scheister (sp). Our of nowhere, she asks everybody in the family to babysit her kids while she sits at his deathbed. When the babysitters ran out, she took her son out of school to stay at her grandmother’s house and babysit the other four children. Mind you, grandma had not consented to this arrangement and was in the middle of losing her husband. So hubby’s sister makes a nuisance of herself at the hospital, sitting so close to grandpa that nobody could even get close to him, she was ordering grandma around, and grandma got to the point of kindly asking her to go home and take care of her kids. She didn’t take the hint. In fact, she said, “I’m 35 years old and I wish people would stop telling me how to live my life!” Grandma got so incensed that she left the hospital and went to hubby’s uncle’s house (who actually had been taking care of them for several years without anybody else’s help) and she was shaking so bad from frustration that he had to sit her down and calm her down. So hubby’s sister got mad, went and got her crazy kids from grandma’s house and left, driving very fast to prove she was mad. So then Grandpa died. We all went to Grandma’s house before the funeral. Grandma said hubby’s sister could come, but that she would be the one to watch her baby, not the 13 year old boy who needed a childhood (lol, go grandma!). So she showed up and even took it upon herself to prod grandma IN FRONT OF EVERYBODY that she needed to get ready to go!!!
My hubby has a theory about why she did what she did. He thinks she wants in the will (because they have some money). That’s probably true. I also think it was a few other things too.
1. Control/power. She loves being in charge and having the control over information.
2. Babysitters. Who’s going to say no to a woman whose grandfather is on his deathbed?
3. Future blaming priveledges. Well, she already used this card. My MIL asked her to leave and let the immediate family take care of the situation. She said, “Well, SOMEbody had to ste up!! Nobody else was doing it!” Suffice it to say, my MIL is immune-compromised and her dad had pneumonia and MERSA. Highly infectious. NOt to mention, MIL’s brother was perfectly capable of handling the situation himself.
So, needless to say, nobody in the family is talking to her at this point. And BTW, she’s using her ex husband again. He has loaned her his Tahoe for the last month or so, even though her van works fine. He has stated that he still loves her, and she told him no, because he’s “crazy”… And baby-daddy number two thumped her in the head because she wasn’t listening to him, so she has a no-contact order on him. Can anybody say DRAMA???
This was a big eye-openeer to the extended family regarding her. One thing they said about her was that when she showed up, everything became chaos. I think that’s a good metaphor for sociopaths. Chaos. They just are. From their homes, to their lives, to their brains, everything is chaos.
Sorry for the long post 🙂
Dear Kerisee,
Sugar, you gave a very good example of a psychopath in action, right out of the “Psychopath’s play book”–they all do pretty much the same script.
The grandfather is the one who is dying, and his WIFE and he should be COMFORTED and supported, but SISSY wants to be the CENTER OF ATTENTION. Sooooooo Typical P!
My late husband’s P sister showed up at their father’s funeral to be the center of attention, whereupon her mother threw her sorry arse OUT! Are you sure your husband and I are not related by marriage? LOL
It is interesting to me too, that since these women don’t seem like kids very much, WHY on earth do they seem to have so MANY OF THEM? You’d think they wouldn’t want anything around that needed CARE from them, or that would ruin their “figures.”
Kerisee:
CHAOS is spot on!!
They love it, they thrive on it, they create it….they nurture chaos!!!
The spath always had some chaos or another going in…..
The first month that he was gone….I FELT the relief…the unload of stress….and the kids said….It’s SO NICE to have PEACE!