We know only too well that by far the majority of psychopaths are men. Or at least we think we know that. Could it be that the criteria used to identify psychopaths are biased towards men? After all Hare began his work in male prison.
Think about it. While behaving and being the way the PCL-R without doubt earns one the label psychopath, this is simply a list of symptoms. It says nothing about the underlying dynamics. If psychopathy is life centered on the principle of power (as opposed to love) and if it is therefore characterised by what Liane Leedom nicely calls ‘warped empathy‘, then wouldn’t you expect there to be more or less the same number of woman as men psychopaths? And wouldn’t you expect them to come across differently?
I am beginning to wonder whether there may be two broad types of psychopathy – a ‘male’-type and a ‘female’-type. I place these in quotes because, when I think about it, men with might be thought of as ‘female’ psychopathy come to mind and we all know about women with ‘male’ psychopathy. And yet, at the risk of being un-PC, I want to maintain these descriptors for now so that the difference I think I see doesn’t disappear.
A ‘female’ psychopath would not necessarily commit crimianl/antisocial acts like her male counterpart, but she woud be as power-driven, as toxically narcissistic as a ‘male’ psychopath. The control, the manipulation, the dishonesty, the selfishness, the callousness – all these would be present, but we might not recognise them for what they are because of 1. media portrayal and 2. medical diagnosis of psychopaths. The difference would come in the gendered style of their behaviour.
In my clinical work I have come across this phenomenon. For example, a woman I now consider to be of the ‘female’-type of psychopath didn’t come close to committing a crime and yet the way she mothered her daughter, my patient, came close to destroying the child’s mind. This seems to me to be a perversion of motherhood eqivalent to the perversion of fatherhood we read about on this website.
Do readers have any comments? I’m particularly interested in any examples you might have of how ‘female’ psychopathy – if such a thing does exist – manifests itself?
Hello, Oxy, and all of you! BWHAAAA!!! Poor mama gem was looking for sympathy for her abcessed tooth, then dry socket! {Didnt happen, but Im not offended, i realise I just wanted a to hold a small pity party of one! LOL!} Im MUCH better today,not so agonising, saw the dentist, he said its now healing up nicely thank God! Im so lucky it happened NOW and not when I was on my trip to Scotland! {I leave on 10th May, for 3 weeks.} Hope the volcanic lava from the Icelandic volcano has settled by then!
Cream puff, youre right, they are all the same,{female spaths!} Isnt it amazing how they get everyone {except us, now,} to dance to their tune? Unbelievable! But then, I danced to my spath daughters tunes for YEARS and years thru misplaced guilt,before I really twigged what was going on, after I found LF!
THANK GOD FOR LF! THANK GOD FOR DONNA< who started it!
Thank God we are all getting there, finally! Thank God the wool is lifting from our eyes, and we are getting out of the FOG! Im now starting to look back on the things I allowed and condoned, and am thinking, WTF was I thinking to let them get away with this for so long?Your right, it IS just like the layers of an onion, or rather layers and layers of shiat, closely packed, you get thru one stinkin layer, and theres another stinkier one! And another and another!
The only reason that I now have the cash to pay for an ovrseas trip for myself, is that I havent baled out my older spath daughter for one year. This June, will be one year total NC.And NO I DONT feel at all selfish! I gave them way too much for way too long. I dont regret doing it, but wont be doing it EVER AGAIN.I dont think I was after control of them, but I DO think I may have been trying to BUY their love. Didnt happen.You CANT buy love, they either love you or they dont.And clearly they dont love me at all. Thank God for my lovely new adult "kids", who in 1 anda half years have given us more love, cuddles, kisses, fun, and laughter than mine did in 30 years!I am so blessed !
Love to all of you, we are doing OK, and were on our way!!
Mama Gem.XX
Of cousre there are as many female psychopaths, know that I know what one is, I have had 2 good friends and a SIL that were. I had already cut them out of my life before I knew what a p was just knowing that our friendship was wrong. The one “friend”, jumped from husband to husband, during each she continuely cheated. She drank and did drugs heavily, she had numerous domestic violence charges on her for beating “friends” and her husband. She lied till she was blue in the face. She destroyed stuff with witnesses present at her deceased grandma’s house and in front of me told her dad on the phone someone broke in again and destroyed everything. She presented herself very well though and made a very good first impression. She didn’t care about anything other then using people to make her look good and to please herself, usually by hurting them.
Gem:
I’m glad your feeling better…..dry socket is NOT fun!!!
Lay back and take some time for yourself and RELAX darlen!!!
You are sounding strong my dear….
XXOO
EB
Cremepuff:
as you said I can not go NC, mine is very patient but he will not kill me without even having a weapon. I can live this hell, as long as my kids don’t see it as hell. They are all doing well, so I think I compensate for his craziness quite well. He will not kill me without even having a weapon, as much as he would like to, I am over it. I have a job to do, to raise these kids the best I can. Let him passivelyl put me through hell because I won’t play his game. I am being vigilant and keeping my eyes wide open. The dark angel can’t hurt me, I have angels with wings on my side now that I know the game, they will fight this battle.
Thanks EB!! MUCH better today, as you say, a dry socket is NOT fun! Anyway, its healing up well now. Im off in 3 weeks time to Scotland,{hopefully the volcanic ash from Iceland will have dispersed by then!}It gets easier by the day not to think of my spath daughters. Im more cashed up now that Im not constantly baling out the older one!This is the only reason I can now afford to travel o’seas.
Im still wading thru years of built-up shiat! As Oxy and you know, theres no set pattern to it all.Some days I feel fine, other days, i seem to be going backwards. But its all progress in the end. Wonderful news re your ex spath getting his come uppance! THANK You God!!
A famous,{or rather infamous} killer,who has killed at least 4 people in Sydney,,has been beaten to death today in prison. They are currently showing a series called “Underbelly”on TV, about this guy and his cronies. Australia always seems to glorify violence, murder, and corruption. Its on tonight.My guess is that he was boasting about it in jail, and someone “took him out” .Couldnt have happened to a more deserving guy.
He always had smirk on his fat stupid face. As OXy says, even in jail, they still think they are heroes!!NOT!!
Towanda to all of us, who are well shot of the Ps, narcs and socios in our lives! Life can only get better! Love to all of you! Mama Gem.XXX
Mama Gem,
I would have sympathized with you over your abcessed tooth. I’ve had two of them in my life. The last one came on over a weekend when I couldn’t get a dentist or even pain killers! And to make it worse, I also came down with a cold and my period on the same day. That went down in history as one of the most miserable weekends of my life. There are fewer things in life more painful than an abcessed tooth. You have ALL my sympathy on that!
Where are you going in Scotland? I lived in St. Andrews for a year many years ago. It is a beautiful place, and you will love it! I think vacations to faraway places are so great for helping you forget about things. You are seeing new things and meeting new people…..tends to give you a new perspective on life.
Dear Justus5…….I have a book recommendation..it is “My Mother’s Rules” by Judge Lynn Toler …..(divorce court judge)
Her father was bi polar and it just has a lot of tips in there on how to deal with crazy people…..I wish NC was an option, but I share so many people I love with the s-paths that I just do not see ever being able to totally avoid either my bio daughter or my step. They are such nasty creatures……..both their lives are just train wrecks………
Donna Andersen says Saturday, 17 April 2010 @....... 5:02pm
Actually, Outlier, the Lovefraud community takes care of us all. I’m just the admin.
I appreciate this; that is true, but it is this platform you created that we owe much gratitude. 37 years of my own analysis has been verified, validated, and illuminating.
Yesterday something (typical) happened involved S sis’s legendary unreliable behaviour (that causes much frustration and anxiety in others). Her response when called on by couple members of my family was out of order but typical of Spath behaviour. That is OTT victim mode and inability to listen, slamming phone down to avoid hearing the other person. Of course for decades she has deliberated over criticising others, with a fine toothed comb bringing up minute pieces of info to bring down their target, focusing on anything they can in order to champion themselves and drag you down until by whatever words and phrases and a chilling tone of voice as they speak from their throne. When they do this have you noticed they are positively strutting in their chair.
When sociopaths are called for their behaviour they run at lightening speed to any authority (oft their spouses/partners) in full victim mode. It is this startling hypocrisy and over-the-top behaviour that further confirms her disorder. They will latch onto any opportunity to be a victim (manufactured stories if they have to and quite often and tediously resort to), and of course their handpicked/groomed apologists, appeasers and sympathisers are themselves being “abused” (often their spouses, and in y Spath sis’s case, all males – specifically chosen male shoulders on which to cry on). They are after all also being deceived on spectacular levels. They are replenishing her narcissist disorder.
I raise this because I rarely confront spath sis – (my rule is never to confront; or I pay the price of her revenge that can breathe for a lifetime, my reputation slandered further). It is a rare chance to see specific textbook data about Spath behaviour and it was yet one more red tick (check) beside her name.
I am so astounded in a way that personality disorders are like the common cold. Each contain specific symptoms; it is unmistakably impossible to ignore the diagnosis of a cold; the symptoms are too frequently documented, recognised, (visible), universally accepted. Sociopathy is like the common cold – it contains an all rounded cluster of traits, symptoms; it amazes me how senior citizen males living in New Zealand possesses strikingly similar traits as a 20 years female living in Canada, for instance. It almost sounds as though they are reading from a script, and what I find impossible to verify is ALWAYS verified and validated. They all behave the same way, and this is what is profoundly compelling. The two sociopaths people I know are different generations, races. Otherwise they are identical in too many ways to document, but all documented here.
Please also refer to http://www.bullyonline.org/ Tim Fields another authority on psychopathic behaviour. This was my first resources, Lovefraud my second.
I have decided in my mind to work on a project – it may take me 7 weeks, 6 months, three years. A series of perhaps 4 plays about 4 different victims, one kind of abuser (played by 4 different people of different age groups OR the same person who has four victims OR one person (like myself) who has experienced sexual/psychological abuse throughout four decades). In the UK I can say for sure psychopathy in drama is not a theme you ever come across. Domestic abuse has been covered, psychological abuse and the justice system’s lack of insight, but not psychological abuse in this context. Many books covers this, but a new medium as drama is powerful and symbolic; reaches a wider audience and may click with people whose abuse in their lives have been disguised and shrouded with a permanent ”smokemanipulativescreen”.
It was a UK documentary called Chosen that was the start of my journey. It was then a brilliant portrayal by a British actor (James Nesbitt) suffering from PTSD in a singular drama called “Five Minutes of Heaven”. His experience was not psychopathy but a dysfunctional parental upbringing, witnessing horrific murder, injustice. His performance was a rare portrayal that I am aware of and worthy of a top five performance in dramatic arts.
I owe the medium of television over the years, particularly (non)factual-based drama covering sexual abuse too much to put into words. I love theatre – wonderful plays about love, betrayal, heartache, pain, healing in relationships. Everyone knows someone like that charaacter, or that character they are crying along with, laughing with.. is them.
Psychological abuse is a tough thing to approach, but once the validation, healing and continual feedback is understood, reciprocated and consumed, it is something I can never avoid. Local plays and theatres touch upon all sorts of social aspects of society. This is one thing I could set my heart and mind on. Speaking from real experience for over 35 years
(I can confidently say sociopathy is evident as young as two years – it is amazing how targets can recall distinctive energy from them as young as 18 months – a large family, but one person stood out like a parasitic cancer)
Have a lovely day, lets all have one of those.
OMG Outlier….you are so right…….my S path step daughter is exactly the same way….she has all the men in her life lined up to run and “tattle” on mean ole Mama (me) ……and this can be something as simple and innocent as forgetting to bring my camera to one of her kid’s birthday party….she used that simple act as ammunition against me to her father………of course she did it out of ear shot of me…….she ALWAYS pulls the men aside or corners them very quietly to plant her evil seeds against me….but when she is in the presence of these men….(husband, father) she will act all sweet to me so that that is the image they have in their mind…..it only serves to make me look worse………I am a Christian…..I hate strife, and yet I’ve had enough of it in the last 30 years to choke me….it’s like being caught in the middle….I don’t want her to keep getting away with stuff, and yet I don’t want to draw even more attention to her by calling her out!! There is one thing they love is attention…I read somewhere that it is never tit for tat with them…..there is NO tat………it’s only “scorched earth”…….. I think you can relate……….