We know only too well that by far the majority of psychopaths are men. Or at least we think we know that. Could it be that the criteria used to identify psychopaths are biased towards men? After all Hare began his work in male prison.
Think about it. While behaving and being the way the PCL-R without doubt earns one the label psychopath, this is simply a list of symptoms. It says nothing about the underlying dynamics. If psychopathy is life centered on the principle of power (as opposed to love) and if it is therefore characterised by what Liane Leedom nicely calls ‘warped empathy‘, then wouldn’t you expect there to be more or less the same number of woman as men psychopaths? And wouldn’t you expect them to come across differently?
I am beginning to wonder whether there may be two broad types of psychopathy – a ‘male’-type and a ‘female’-type. I place these in quotes because, when I think about it, men with might be thought of as ‘female’ psychopathy come to mind and we all know about women with ‘male’ psychopathy. And yet, at the risk of being un-PC, I want to maintain these descriptors for now so that the difference I think I see doesn’t disappear.
A ‘female’ psychopath would not necessarily commit crimianl/antisocial acts like her male counterpart, but she woud be as power-driven, as toxically narcissistic as a ‘male’ psychopath. The control, the manipulation, the dishonesty, the selfishness, the callousness – all these would be present, but we might not recognise them for what they are because of 1. media portrayal and 2. medical diagnosis of psychopaths. The difference would come in the gendered style of their behaviour.
In my clinical work I have come across this phenomenon. For example, a woman I now consider to be of the ‘female’-type of psychopath didn’t come close to committing a crime and yet the way she mothered her daughter, my patient, came close to destroying the child’s mind. This seems to me to be a perversion of motherhood eqivalent to the perversion of fatherhood we read about on this website.
Do readers have any comments? I’m particularly interested in any examples you might have of how ‘female’ psychopathy – if such a thing does exist – manifests itself?
Blue Eyes,
Be it man, woman, or it, the spaths have affected us in profound ways. They all have the con in common, whether it’s by taking money, love, friendship, trust, sanity, health, they take and have no right to take these things. None.
You happened upon someone who pretended to be something they weren’t. He took your trust along with him when he left, then you get the feeling of “What the heck just happened?” When we finally process the depth of their disorder it leaves us as damaged goods.
I have not had the pleasure of an intimate incounter with a female spath but I’m sure she would be charismatic, fun, charming and I would feel drawn in. But, on closer examination, she would be without substance and a user and evil. I think women would get away with more because women are thought of as more nurturing.
Greg Wray had a spathasode with someone who prayed on his deepest desire of having a sexually adventurous mate who bonded with him, all the while playing him for a dupe. Evil. Sex with spaths is highly overrated. It may be good but the end result is so not worth it. I may become a nun. They probably wouldn’t have me at the abbey so I’ll settle for abstinence.
Hopeforjoy;
“You happened upon someone who pretended to be something they weren’t. He took your trust along with him when he left, then you get the feeling of “What the heck just happened?”
— Exactly. I thought it was me being open and honest about my very real HIV scare. WTF really came about two weeks later when I learned he was HIV+.
“When we finally process the depth of their disorder it leaves us as damaged goods.”
— To this day, I cannot believe what happened and I cannot believe his profound dishonesty, selling himself to me as being “proper and reserved,” offended that I merely asked him back to my apartment, all the while he is having a very visible online presence with a “hobbies include boys, beers and fooling around.” His words.
“I have not had the pleasure of an intimate incounter with a female spath but I’m sure she would be charismatic, fun, charming and I would feel drawn in. But, on closer examination, she would be without substance and a user and evil.”
— Charming and fun, yes. Without substance, again “hobbie include boys, beers and fooling around.” To his credit, he is far more honest online than in person.
I’ve been reading here for a couple of years. I still don’t know exactly what to say, because there is SO MUCH that has happened and so much to say, where to begin?
But yes! Knowing the ‘male’ type for two generations, I also know the ‘female’ type… my only daughter. She takes the cake! A 3rd. generation weapon!
Thanks for all you do! You help so many to begin their understanding. It’s helped me so much, just to see articles and comments about things I’ve lived through/am living through… with family psychopaths/sociopaths.
Keep it up!
TheWebSheWeaves, hello, nice to meet you, even though it is under extremely difficult circumstances. I agree with you, this website has helped me understand so much also, I think I would still be walking around in a fog with a bullseye on my forehead for spaths if it wasn’t for this site. Hope you will post more, we all learn from each other’s experiences. God Bless you.
Dear TheWebSheWeaves,
You are NOT alone in having a child who is a psychopath, I have one who is currently in prison for premeditated murder, and even from his prison cell he tried to “reach out and touch” me with death for daring to not enable him any more.
It can’t be easy for any parent to realize their child –even an adult child–is actually evil….toxic….It took me a long time to admit that to myself, much less others. The pain of doing so was unreal, but finally I can say that the worst of the pain, the loss, the grief, has come to acceptance and peace.
My healing (and that is never a job that is 100% complete) has also required that I take a look at myself and things about myself that I need to change in order to be more emotionally healthy myself. It included learning to set boundaries for everyone in my life, including my other adult children, my friends, and other family members.
In setting boundaries, one must realize that the relationship is on the line if those boundaries are breached, and be willing for that to happen, otherwise there IS NO BOUNDARY. That’s a scary step. I had to decide what was important enough to me in a relationship to be willing to END that relationship if the behavior continued or even happened once.
I also had to realize that by ALLOWING a relationship to continue with a person who has been proven repeatedly to be DISHONEST and violent, that I am being dishonest myself. I had to start holding myself to a standard of honesty I had not held myself to in the past. It meant severing the relationships I had with all the dishonest and untrustworthy people in my circle of intimacy. It’s hard, but though the circle is smaller, it is much more fulfilling and warm.
Web,
sorry that your family has so many P’s. As does mine, so I can relate. I hope you have one or a few that are normal to give you love and support while you try to deal with the P’s.
If not, you do have us on LF. We will be your family, in spirit.
I have 3 children with my xwife during a 5 year marriage. I met her during her first pregnancy and quickly felt sorry for her being a single young pregnant woman….little did I realize why she might be single! I helped her through the pregnancy and she quickly putting high pressure on my to adopt the baby. I love babies and had none of my own and jumped at the chance to become this little guys Dad. The real father signed over rights with no problem. We got married after a very short engagement which seems to always be a mistake.
During my five year marriage, so many lies were weaved that I could tell what was truth or not. I still do not know if my third child is really mine. Due to lack of money, I have never had him tested and don’t care to anymore. Those three boys will always be mine even though they are starting to shoe the same tendnecies of lies and lack of moral like their mother.
We got divorced after 5 years and it so happened while she was pregnant with our third child and she was engaged or close to it before she even had the baby. I am assuming the new fiancee was not the father since he was not claiming the child and did not fight me on it either since my x was getting a hefty $850 a month for child support. A little tough to do when you dont even know if the children are yours or not, one was for sure since he looks just like me.
I got remarried and had 3 other children and shared custody of the other 3 with my xwife. She spent 10 years with her new husband whom turned out to be a great father to the boys. But the 10 years were not easy due to the lies that my x would continue to do. Some of thsoe lies where telling her husband that I still wanted her and made passes at her along with telling my wife these things. My x continues to try and blackmail me into paying her additional money or she will tell my wife that we are sleeping together. The boys are now 18,16, and 12 and admit that she tells them that she is doing this and thinks that it is funny. The boys just pass it off as bing “mom”.
The most current episode is a break in into our house where an xbox was stolen along with some games. We had our suspecions of it being one of the boys even though one of them live with us while the other lives with her. We called the police and made a report but couldnt do anything about it since the xbox was not recovered. This was back in OCT and then on Christmas, the boy that lives with her recieved an xbox for Christmas that she said she had boought of craigslist. The son noticed that it was the same xbox from our house but said nothing about it to anyone. Now, 4 months later, that son is now wanting to live with us and has admitted the info about the xbox. Needless to say, you never know who is lying but when it is OK to do something evil since the one parent does it all the time, it tends to make more liars and munipulators.
Now….my sixteen year old who lives with us, is in an odd relationship with his mother where sex is talked about openly. When and where she has it and when he has it. It has even escalated to the two of them having sex talk about themselves together. Jokes that insinuate that they are having sex with each other but when questioned about it the sixteen year old denies it. It is common for her to walk around naked in front of the boys. She is also planning a breast enhancement and told the sixteen year old that he is welcome to feel them once she has the surgery. Its true that she uses the power of sex over men but she is now using it over her own boys.
Unfortuanely, there is nothing I can do since the boys wont back me on any of it. They only tell me when it happens. Now, since the 12 year is moving in, the sixteen year old wants to move back to his mothers which scares me since he has more of her manipulating traits and will only get more reinforced while being around her.
Dear KDT,
Welcome to lovefraud. I am sorry that you have reason to be here, but there is good information and support here.
You might also go to the blog by “bloggerT” linked here “female offenders” (look under blog roll on the left of the screen near the top) It sounds like your X is a “female offender” in her sexualizing the children, emotionally if not physically.
I am the parent of a psychopathic son, and also the daughter of a male psychopath and have psychopaths on both sides of my own family, so there may be a chance that your sons have had the “double whammy” of both genetics and environment with their mother. It is a shame, but sometimes no matter how hard we try we can’t prevent the DNA from winning. It has been difficult to let go of my own biological sons, one a psychopath, and the other just dysfunctional. They are middle aged men now and I am only now fully comprehending and accepting what they are and that I cannot change it.
Knowledge is power so read here and learn, and also go to the link of “parenting the at risk child” Dr. Leedom’s blog, she is raising a son whose father is a psychopath and has some good information and support there. God bless and again, welcome!
KDT – there is something you can do about it. Start documenting it all. And then see a lawyer or the DA, or the judge who set out the conditions of your child support/ sharing.
Thank you and yes, we are getting the courts involved again but it always cost so much money which is hard to come by right now. The 12 year old is moving in but we do not have custody of him but the 16 year whom we do, is mad and wants to move now. It is an ongoing battle when the children have an out whenever they do not agree with “good parenting”. We are documenting and will be attempting to press charges against her for the xbox but all we want is proof that these things keep happening.
I will continue to learn from you all.