We know only too well that by far the majority of psychopaths are men. Or at least we think we know that. Could it be that the criteria used to identify psychopaths are biased towards men? After all Hare began his work in male prison.
Think about it. While behaving and being the way the PCL-R without doubt earns one the label psychopath, this is simply a list of symptoms. It says nothing about the underlying dynamics. If psychopathy is life centered on the principle of power (as opposed to love) and if it is therefore characterised by what Liane Leedom nicely calls ‘warped empathy‘, then wouldn’t you expect there to be more or less the same number of woman as men psychopaths? And wouldn’t you expect them to come across differently?
I am beginning to wonder whether there may be two broad types of psychopathy – a ‘male’-type and a ‘female’-type. I place these in quotes because, when I think about it, men with might be thought of as ‘female’ psychopathy come to mind and we all know about women with ‘male’ psychopathy. And yet, at the risk of being un-PC, I want to maintain these descriptors for now so that the difference I think I see doesn’t disappear.
A ‘female’ psychopath would not necessarily commit crimianl/antisocial acts like her male counterpart, but she woud be as power-driven, as toxically narcissistic as a ‘male’ psychopath. The control, the manipulation, the dishonesty, the selfishness, the callousness – all these would be present, but we might not recognise them for what they are because of 1. media portrayal and 2. medical diagnosis of psychopaths. The difference would come in the gendered style of their behaviour.
In my clinical work I have come across this phenomenon. For example, a woman I now consider to be of the ‘female’-type of psychopath didn’t come close to committing a crime and yet the way she mothered her daughter, my patient, came close to destroying the child’s mind. This seems to me to be a perversion of motherhood eqivalent to the perversion of fatherhood we read about on this website.
Do readers have any comments? I’m particularly interested in any examples you might have of how ‘female’ psychopathy – if such a thing does exist – manifests itself?
Dear KDT,
The problem is I think the law isn’t going to take the break in and theft of an X-box all that seriously—hell Murder isn’t much of a “crime” any more! UGH!!!!! (grrrr–that’s the sound of me grinding my teeth!)
Yea, I know what you mean about the kids playing both ends against the middle. Maybe the best thing is to just tell them that there is NO CHOICE about where they live….that may not be an option, but if the 16 yr old goes to live with her, and I could’nt stop it, he wouldn’t be coming back to my home later and I’d make that CLEAR to him. By 16 they are old enough to know what a boundary is if you will enforce it. That was my mistake with my son, I should have left him in jail at 17 and never looked back. I learned the hard way. I kept up a malignant hope that he had “learned his lesson” the first, the second, the third time he was in jail/prison, then he went back for murder and I still believed he could be salvaged—well, now I know the truth. He’s no worse or better now 20 years later than he was when he was 17…more determined to “get even” with me for whatever he considers I did wrong to him—like calling the cops when he used my car in the middle of the night to rob my friend’s business and put them OUT of business for weeks, by stealing all their computers. He didn’t spend many weeks out of jail before he went to jail and then prison for 2 yrs for a bigger felony as an adult….then wasn’t out 5 months before he went back to prison for MURDER….and that was 1992, and I kept getting sucked back into feeling sorry for him, poor baby, sending commissary money so he could buy nicer things and better food in prison….get in the craft shop and so on. Drove 400 miles one way to visit, etc. etc. Then, when I saw the truth, the REAL truth, that he was proud of killing that girl, I cut him out of my estate and he tried to have me killed.
NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED.
If I sound a big cynical it’s because you are catching on! LOL I didn’t learn to set good boundaries so I am paying the price for that. Now I am setting boundaries and have never felt better and more “free” in my life. An old dog can be taught NEW TRICKS!
KDT,
“Now”.my sixteen year old who lives with us, is in an odd relationship with his mother where sex is talked about openly. When and where she has it and when he has it. It has even escalated to the two of them having sex talk about themselves together. Jokes that insinuate that they are having sex with each other but when questioned about it the sixteen year old denies it. It is common for her to walk around naked in front of the boys. She is also planning a breast enhancement and told the sixteen year old that he is welcome to feel them once she has the surgery. Its true that she uses the power of sex over men but she is now using it over her own boys.”
This is extremely serious and you should *not* treat it lightly. I’m sure you may already suspect this, but it needs to be said: your ex is not only sexually abusing (emotionally if not physically) your boys, but she is also training them to be future sex offenders. I know a bit about this, because that’s exactly what my mother tried to do to my brothers. This needs serious, but very carefully managed, intervention.
I completely agree with Oxy here – I urge you to take a look at the website she mentioned. I would specifically point you to this article:
“Understanding and Preventing Child Sexual Abuse – Section 4: Females and Child Sexual Abuse” on the following webpage:
http://www.female-offenders.com/resources.html
I would also take a look at the following article:
http://www.trowbridgefoundation.org/docs/victim_issues_sex_offender_treatment.htm
You didn’t mention how much, if any, of this you’ve witnessed firsthand and how much is at present ‘hearsay’ via your sons. Regardless, if I were you I’d try to record conversations with your sons where they talk about this (because the sad truth is that you probably won’t be believed without it), and then I’d try to find a police sex crimes unit that is open to dealing with, or even acknowledging the existence of, female sex offenders and get their advice on intervention for your sons (bloggert could probably give you better advice on this point) .
This is very serious and its significance shouldn’t be downplayed. In case you think I’m exaggerating, note this snippet from an article on (the former Colonel) Russell Williams in the Vancouver Sun:
Plumbing the dark depths of Russell Williams’ mind By Ian MacLeod
“Serial murderers frequently have unusual or unnatural relationships with their mothers”
The article is no longer available at the Sun website, but is still available in cache if you google it.
My thoughts and prayers are with you and your children.
Annie, I completely agree with you. Dateline did a 2 hour show on Russell Williams the other night. I saw it, not sure if it was a re-run, or new, but I had not seen it before. He was/is one SICKKKKKK puppy.
BloggerT’s site is an eye opener for sure about the huge number of FEMALE sexual offenders that there are and hardly even the tip of that iceberg sticks up out of the ocean of abuse to even be noticed and most of the press goes to the males who are caught, and God alone knows how few of them are actually caught, much less prosecuted.
Thanks for bringing this up for KDT.
Recently I realized that my 37 year old daughter is a sociopath. It has explained so much to me. She has a very high IQ and is scary in her ability to manipulate people by rearranging reality. My heart is broken because she has a 16 year old son whom I can’t help other than just letting him I know I love and keeping in contact with him. She uses him as a pawn to manipulate people. I have watched her “talk on the phone” spinning a story so that he can hear it. She is superficially charming and capable of devious manipulations. She does is not a criminal sociopath. She is simply without guilt, exploitative, excellent at finding people’s emotional vulnerabilities and working them. Sometimes she can just restate the facts with a certain tone of voice which incredibly influences how I hear what the facts mean — when I know better about the facts actually mean. For example, one time she was talking to me about an incident when she was not going to let me see my grandson because I had intervened in some serious and dangerous abuse he was subjected to. I remained calm and appealed to her need to appear to be a “good mom” and talked about how this would hurt him and this should not be about me that his needs should come first. To listen to her repeat the story it sounds like I didn’t really want to see him but he wanted to see me etc –this leaves him feeling like I ‘Feel sorry for him” which he doesn’t want — it is so hard to actually write in detail to convey how she does this. She talks like this when he can overhear it. I feel caught with her. If she knew how much I wanted to see him more and spend time with him she would exploit this. As long as I see him WITH her she is fine. Right now I am feeling discouraged as I write this because I am having trouble conveying what she does — she is just sooooo slick and I am afraid no one will believe me.
Marie,
welcome to LF.
((I believe you))
The only thing we can do when faced with one of these creatures, is to use them to make ourselves better than we were before. Read, Read, Read about them and learn about you.
My favorite book, is “why is it always about you?”
but there is one that may be more helpful to you right now:
“Freeing Yourself from the Narcissist in Your Life ” it has lots of practical advice.
One that I haven’t read yet, but sounds really good, is:
“Disarming the Narcissist: Surviving & Thriving With the Self-Absorbed”
If anyone has read that one, what did you think? The reviews on Amazon are intriguing.
Take care of yourself first, Marie.
The spaths always say they behave the way they do “because I can”. And it’s true, but it would be better phrased, “because you let me”. They somehow always avoid the consequences for their actions. We are always there to shoulder the responsibility so they don’t have to. It’s time for the spaths to suffer the natural consequences of the reality that they have denied for so long.
Dear Marie,
I DEFINITELY BELIEVE YOU—I raised a psychopath myself, and I KNOW how they can twist reality. It is called “gaslighting” after the name of a movie where a man was trying to make his wife appear crazy. YES!!!!! YES!!!! I believe you and so do the others here who are mothers and fathers of psychopaths, husbands and wives of psychopaths…..brothers and sisters of, children of….they are all without conscience.
There are other grandmothers here who weep for the grandchildren they love and cannot protect from the psychopathic parents of those children who use these grandchildren as the ultimate weapons to hurt us.
You have found a place that you will not only be BELIEVED but UNDERSTOOD and validated.
Knowledge is power so learn about the psychopaths, read the articles here (not all are criminals by a long shot) but they are all TOXIC…learn how to support your grandson and keep in contact with him to let him know that you care about HIM. God bless.
Skylar, I just bought Malignant Self Love. Very thorough, very enlightening, a bit challenging to read, but WOW.
Marie ~ hello and welcome, I’m so glad you found us! Oh my yes, you will find much to read here, much that will validate that you are NOT alone. All of us here are in various stages of learning / healing from the effects of being involved with a sociopath.
Your daughter’s description fits my stepson’s mother also. My husband and I are doing the best we can to love and support son, who is almost 16. The poor kid has been used as a pawn by his spath mother since he was born. All we can do is be there for HIM.
It is a difficult thing to remember, but we CANNOT let her see the turmoil she stirs up. She has not let us see him hardly at all for about the last month or so. That’s just THIS time. It has happened off and on since the boy was an infant.
I just wanted you to know that I UNDERSTAND.
Take care of YOU. You can’t fix her.
Dear Superkid,
Keep in mind that Sam Vaknin, the man who wrote that books is a psychopath, in fact there is a video of him called “I, Psychopath” that will make your skin crawl. The man is a monster.
Much of the “information” in his book is not factual or actual, so I suggest that you read “Without Conscience” by Robert Hare or “The sociopath next door” by Martha Stout.
It is unfortunate but Vaknin self promotes to the max and he is NOT A BENIGN FIGURE that he paints himself to be.
ps. His “PhD is a FAKE too” Everything about him is a fake.