We know only too well that by far the majority of psychopaths are men. Or at least we think we know that. Could it be that the criteria used to identify psychopaths are biased towards men? After all Hare began his work in male prison.
Think about it. While behaving and being the way the PCL-R without doubt earns one the label psychopath, this is simply a list of symptoms. It says nothing about the underlying dynamics. If psychopathy is life centered on the principle of power (as opposed to love) and if it is therefore characterised by what Liane Leedom nicely calls ‘warped empathy‘, then wouldn’t you expect there to be more or less the same number of woman as men psychopaths? And wouldn’t you expect them to come across differently?
I am beginning to wonder whether there may be two broad types of psychopathy – a ‘male’-type and a ‘female’-type. I place these in quotes because, when I think about it, men with might be thought of as ‘female’ psychopathy come to mind and we all know about women with ‘male’ psychopathy. And yet, at the risk of being un-PC, I want to maintain these descriptors for now so that the difference I think I see doesn’t disappear.
A ‘female’ psychopath would not necessarily commit crimianl/antisocial acts like her male counterpart, but she woud be as power-driven, as toxically narcissistic as a ‘male’ psychopath. The control, the manipulation, the dishonesty, the selfishness, the callousness – all these would be present, but we might not recognise them for what they are because of 1. media portrayal and 2. medical diagnosis of psychopaths. The difference would come in the gendered style of their behaviour.
In my clinical work I have come across this phenomenon. For example, a woman I now consider to be of the ‘female’-type of psychopath didn’t come close to committing a crime and yet the way she mothered her daughter, my patient, came close to destroying the child’s mind. This seems to me to be a perversion of motherhood eqivalent to the perversion of fatherhood we read about on this website.
Do readers have any comments? I’m particularly interested in any examples you might have of how ‘female’ psychopathy – if such a thing does exist – manifests itself?
Ox Drover,
Thanks. I feel badly for rush_64 and his family, having been very much affected by his step-daughter’s disorder. I can only imagine how his wife feels (traumatized ?), being arrested and tried over a crime that she didn’t commit. Thank God for the husband that she has, meaning rush_64.
bluejay,
Thank you for your kind thoughts. I can assure you my wife was the pinnacle of strength during that time. She just had a strong feeling it would work out at the trial. And by the grace of God, it did. I was a mess thinking about all the bad possibilities. At times, she was holding me together.
Rush, my mouth is STILL HANGING OPEN about your step daughter getting your wife PROSECUTED an d it actually going to trial.
That Tim Miller guy being involved in it and “almost lying” on the stand etc interests me very much. There is a case of “bad” prosecution with a young boy who was 15 at the time a murder was committed near his home and the body dumped in a field. There was a psychopathic detective that decided this boy did it and faked evidence, as well as HID EVIDENCE THAT SHOWED THE BOY WAS INNOCENT, and called in one of the BIG DOGS PhD forensic psychologists who looked at some “drawings” the boy had made and decided and TESTIFIED that these drawings were of the murder, it was a LONG STRETCH to come to that conclusion as well….in any case, J. Reid Maloy, PhD was proven wrong 20 years later after the boy had spent 10 years in prison, and only DNA let him out. The Detective is now under prosecution for his faking evidence and deliberately withholding evidence the boy was innocent. (as he should be) but Dr. J. Reid Malloy just keeps on handing out “expert opinions” like he is God or something.
I’m a retired medical professional and I’ve read a lot of Dr. Malloy’s writings and as far as I am concerned much of it is “word salad” and about as “clear as mud.”
I am wondering if there may not have been some kind of that kind of Hanky-panky going on with your wife’s prosecution. It sure STINKS from what you have told me.
YOu say your step daughter is trying to get back into your wife’s life now….what is your wife’s take on all of this?
Ox Drover,
There was something definitely odd about Tim Miller. I know he and his organization have done a lot of good over the years. But, the way he conducted himself in our case was nothing short of bizarre or at least questionable. First, he provided inaccurate specific incriminating statements to the cops that my wife supposedly told him. Tim and one of his volunteers were speaking with me and my wife together and never separately. His volunteer confirmed she did not make those statements. The volunteer told our investigators that Tim told him not to show up to court and was avoiding our subpoena for months. We actually had to stake-out his house to deliver the subpoena. We barely got it to him the night before trial started after months of trying. Then, he didn’t show up to court initiating a bench warrant from the judge. He did come in the next day and confirmed that my wife did not make the statements. Second, we found out that an adult woman helped our daughter run away and was aware if not part of the fake bruises. Tim started dating this woman in question. How much was he really involved or knew. It is hard for me to believe he knew nothing about what really happened. And lastly, he had to make it a point on the stand that he should be credited for finding our daughter when he did not. He actually had nothing to do with finding her. He only got involved at the last minute. The local FOX news station pressuring our local cops resulted in finding her. So, you can imagine my feelings towards him.
Now you might be able to justify his behavior if he believed every word my daughter must have told him which I am sure was extreme. But, he definitely was walking the line if not crossing it with inappropriate actions.
Dear Rush,
It sounds to me like he was involved in something “shady” if he a) made statements that were not true and b) if he ducked testifying and c) if the woman who was involved with the run away AND the fake bruises is now dating him…..hummmmmm let me see now, 2+2= WHAT? LOL
I really do think you should read Dr. Barbara Oakley’s books, I think they will give you some insight into what might have been going on with Tim…sometimes people who pose as “altruistic” “doo gooders” are NOT WHAT THEY SEEM TO BE….
My P son ran away once when he was 15, got the parents of some girl he knew to help him because he had been ABUSED…year, the reason he ran was because I was going to turn him in to the police for BREAKING 3 of my ribs!
It is not unusual at all for psychopaths to pose as “victims” of abuse, and allegations of abuse and rape by a parent can be (as I am sure you know) very difficult to disprove. In many cases it is “guilty until proven innocent.”
It definitely sounds like a kangaroo court to me….the fact that it actually went to TRIAL is amazing really. I just thank God that your wife didn’t get 15-30 years in prison. Her daughter sounds about as bad as my psychopathic son, and as dangerous. One of the things I am sure of about psychopaths is that if you ever “win” a round over one of them (like in court) they NEVER FORGET OR FORGIVE IT, they always hold a GRUDGE and will “get even” if they can eventually. Watch ‘yer back!
I cannot express to you how much FEMALE SOCIOPATHS exist. It’s frankly unbelievable to me that some people think that just because a person is female their brain construction and chemistry will not include things such as a lack of conscience and empathy. This ideology is ridiculously culturally inspired. I have heard a number of people even say that men are sociopaths and the female equivalent of this is BPD. The disorders are extremely different. If your seeing a woman who exhibits evey single DAMN characteristic a sociopath exudes. You should call them… a SOICIOPATH. It’s beyond sexist to me. It’s just unbelievable. I seriously question the intelligence of anyone who believes that femalse cannot be sociopathic. The terms “gold digger” and “home wrecker” can hopefully enlightened the culturally bound thinkers who cannot bring themselves to believe that women can be sociopaths, manipulators with out conscience. Self serving liars. etc.
For your reserach purposes I knew 1 female sociopath. She always pretended to be stupid around men.. she used everything she had to conn people into thinking she was very religious and incapable of anything even remotely cruel. She spoke vaguely all the time and only said things that were positive around people who were… sad to say… unintelligent and “posers”… (they mold their lives around what is cool)…. She laughed loudly and did things that were “cute”.. for show… She flirted with out reservation to all men and denied she did anything of the kind… only people who are intelligent can see her for what she is…
She has an unmoving dark hard stare and a big white smile… Her eyes never smile… In the same sentence she can say something that seems nice but is disgustingly cruel…
The thing is I was so appauled with her behavior… I experiamented with her tactics… She is not as intelligent as people wish soicopaths to be. She just thinks of people as things… as emotions as someting to use.
She is a sociopath. She leaves a secret path of destruction everywhere she goes… she leaves her victims confused because so many people belive her to be religious and innocent… And the confusion is underrated…
Again, I must state… sociopaths are not as intelligent as people wish them to be… they just see the world as things to be used… even people are just things to be used… She uses her lovers… everything… She is freakin’ evil and needs to be exposed…. She ruins every organization she is in… Because she decides who enjoys their life and who she needs to eliminate (she attacks her “competition”)… She is a very very bad person… and that is how it is. People want to say people like her are just people… but there are people who are worth so much who work very hard to help and promote people, to make this world a better place…
And those people deserve to be uplifted and respected… Good behavior should be rewarded… and bad behavior should be analyzed… and corrected.
In conclusion- she is not that intelligent, people just think very differently and she does not help any organization she is in.
Ken
Welcome to LF. I’m sorry for your experience.
Yes, female sociopaths exist. I dont’ think anybody here would argue that. I watched a movie last night about one.
What is your story?
Superkid
Dear Ken,
Welcome to LF and you are so right, there ARE female psychopaths—and psychopaths of every sex, age, race, IQ, height, and weight—and from all social and cultural groups! Psychopathy is an “equal opportunity” personality disorder.
Some are educated and smart and some are illiterate and dumb…some are openly violent and some are covertly abusive…
Glad to have you aboard, but sorry that you “qualify” to join our “club” of former victims, but there is good information and support here, and we do appreciate the male gender’s point of view here. Wish we had more men who came here…I do not doubt that there are plenty of men who qualify as former victims of the female psychopaths (or other male psychopaths either!)
Ken,
the religious schtik was one that my mother and grandmother (her MIL) both used to get away with anything they did. Interestingly, my mother could see right through the evil mechanations of her MIL and was always pointing them out to me. takes one to know one, I guess.
The female spaths wear great masks.
Ken,
Just to chime in and welcome you. I have had two female sociopathic bosses. Interestingly both catholic, and both with facades of ‘goodness’ and in helping professions.
I am also sorry that you come by this site because your mother is a bad human being. But this is a great place for support and learning (and getting past it)…..
Slim