We know only too well that by far the majority of psychopaths are men. Or at least we think we know that. Could it be that the criteria used to identify psychopaths are biased towards men? After all Hare began his work in male prison.
Think about it. While behaving and being the way the PCL-R without doubt earns one the label psychopath, this is simply a list of symptoms. It says nothing about the underlying dynamics. If psychopathy is life centered on the principle of power (as opposed to love) and if it is therefore characterised by what Liane Leedom nicely calls ‘warped empathy‘, then wouldn’t you expect there to be more or less the same number of woman as men psychopaths? And wouldn’t you expect them to come across differently?
I am beginning to wonder whether there may be two broad types of psychopathy – a ‘male’-type and a ‘female’-type. I place these in quotes because, when I think about it, men with might be thought of as ‘female’ psychopathy come to mind and we all know about women with ‘male’ psychopathy. And yet, at the risk of being un-PC, I want to maintain these descriptors for now so that the difference I think I see doesn’t disappear.
A ‘female’ psychopath would not necessarily commit crimianl/antisocial acts like her male counterpart, but she woud be as power-driven, as toxically narcissistic as a ‘male’ psychopath. The control, the manipulation, the dishonesty, the selfishness, the callousness – all these would be present, but we might not recognise them for what they are because of 1. media portrayal and 2. medical diagnosis of psychopaths. The difference would come in the gendered style of their behaviour.
In my clinical work I have come across this phenomenon. For example, a woman I now consider to be of the ‘female’-type of psychopath didn’t come close to committing a crime and yet the way she mothered her daughter, my patient, came close to destroying the child’s mind. This seems to me to be a perversion of motherhood eqivalent to the perversion of fatherhood we read about on this website.
Do readers have any comments? I’m particularly interested in any examples you might have of how ‘female’ psychopathy – if such a thing does exist – manifests itself?
Alex,
Healing is a process…..like grieving.
Part of the fight is the fight to regain our lives. A new life.
I’m in a much better place than 5 years ago…..
5 years you say….what the hell took me so long….Well….each of us and circumstances are differnt and unique.
Illness that came along with it is one….financial devastation, Years of personal safety issues and stalking by him and his cronies, a contested divorce process along with child custody being dragged out……THEN, once you get on your feet, losing a home is a process, finding your kids 3.5 months after they were kidnapped by ex and removed from the state is a process, business’s being destroyed at spaths hands…..moving, therapy for yourslef and kids…..ALL while trying to maintain some semblance of ‘normalcy’ in life and being a mother to my children….NOT knowing what normal is after 28 years with a spath
You are assuming all spaths ‘go away’ by your above post. Yours may have, but mine did not. It took 5 years for me to get the point across, via legal means and the DEA and police across the country. He was finally arrested. He realized I had power and he gravely mistook me for a weaker person. He made it clear it was HIM or ME. I chose it to be HIM!
Due to his chosen covert lifestyle, looking over our shoulder became a way of life. PTSD follows it…….Protecting my kids and self was a predominent concern and very real.
Going through gun safety classes and arming up and learning how to sleep with a gun, became very real. Not trusting anyone’s motives around me became VERY REAL.
I fought like a bull dog……tooth and nail, take no prisoners………while fighting cancer conseqetively. I proved to him…..fuck with me only if you wish prison. He told a judge once…..”EB can make anyone do anything she wants”…..I thought about that…..and empowered myself with those words….I took that on as my mantra…..and I used it to expose him. Surround myself with those who understood ‘who’ he was and what illegal acts he was engaged in.
Just last night….YES 5 YEARS after my kids have last seen their father……my youngest JR barged into my room at 4am…….freaked out…..wondering if i’d heard that noise and if I had my gun on me and to go check it out. It was the wind knocking something over…..GET IT…..my kids are still scared of their father. There is a reason for this! We don’t stay cooped up all day/night waiting for him to appear, we live, we go, we do………..but this is what PTSD does to someone, you are left with triggers. Learn about it!
Your advice of …..(move on) live life……is trite and insensative. maybe this is because your male? Not sure.
Live life like never before…….yep, that’s what we do……as we rebuild EVERYTHING that was damaged from my choice to marry and bare children with a spath. This is a new life, never lived before.
I’m glad your ‘done’………i’m glad you got that chance to be ‘done’ quickly…..because she ‘went away’.
If you tritefully bury the emotions which need to be settled…..you WILL encounter the same situation at a different point in your life. That’s guaranteed! Life has a way of teaching us lessons…..you can choose to ‘get em’ and if not…..they WILL come back around until you undertand and get it.
I and others were not so fortunate as you to have our spaths…..’go away’.
Please don’t judge anyone for not being in the same position as you……and live like you would recommend….”and everyone else should do the same.”
It’s a journey, an evolution…….and one that takes time.
Today……we are in a much better place……but i’m sorry dear…..I wish i could NOT look over my shoulder- its not pleasant. I can’t/won’t stop……the minute I do will be the minute I get a shot through the back of my head!
Your blanket advice is horrible……before you offer it, educate yourself and learn that we haven’t all lived the same life experiences!!!!!
UNDERSTAND?!?!?!
wow calm down and put your gun away!!!! your quote
Your advice of ”..(move on) live life—is trite and insensative. maybe this is because your male?
this is a column about female spath and im here for a reason
the damage i took was equal if not worse i lost 3 kids to another state and couldnt get them back! i lost my home my buiss everything i had, i didnt have any illness but i paid dearly does what i lost differ because im a man NO!!!!! it is all still lost i have wounds that still havent healed i endured the same abuses, as dr steve says i was used as the supply source of money housing my spath would mentally and financialy crush me at every chance or turn, constantly degrade me, i was paying for everything she didnt work ready for this she had a non profit for teen domestic abuse would speak at schools about red flags,
when i met this woman i was smitten she said all the right things had all the right actions, after time it all unraveled like every other one on here, at first it was great then slowly it changed at first it was the phone calls she questioned every call and who it was to started accusing me of seeing or talking to other people started calling customers at my job questioning them, then the fights she would acuse me of these things then wait as soon as the first went by she would kick me out after the bills where paid i slept in my truck didnt have any money, soon as id get another check im back at home then when i would sleep in my truck she would make me every hour drive down the toll road to prove that i was in my truck bring her the receipts, then it would change for a couple of months then start again in 4 years i have slept more in my vehicle than in my home, constantly degrading me constantly accusing me of cheating taking every penny i had she said she did this to make sure i wasnt seeing anyone else, i have rented and bought homes because she wanted to change where she lived, the last episode was she didnt want her family to know we where together so she got an apartment and for 7 months i paid for everything rent lights food gas phone bill nail and hair stops everything if i didnt have money she would throw fits, while doing this i lived in the most horrible place you ever seen at times no light or water trying to meet her demands she made me feel worthless, after 7 months she said we could move back in together i sold my vehicle so i could get the place she wanted a week later she threw me out, i have been physically mentaly and financialy devastated for 4 years she constantly told friends and family i cheated to get sympathy, i have even taken multiple polygraphs she had my computor installed with webwatcher my phone watched with spyware, she put a cigarete out on my neck one time cause she said i looked at another woman, so yes i do understand the hurt i do understand alot of things do you know how emberasing it is for me to admit this or even talk about this, yes men have different ways of showing or doing things but we/i dont deserve the these actions just as much as a woman doesnt deserve them, i have never told this or voiced it but just writing this tonight has made me think and realise what i was involved in, im still hurting just trying to get it back together and being tough is the only way i know at this time because when i think about it i just break down
Noone can ‘move on’ as long as they are in a survival mode. And BunnyWabbit is surviving. She will not be able to ‘move on’, unless she is safe from being stalked.
Your advice, Alex, is not an advice that helps BunnyWabbit make her life safer, and thereby it does not help her heal. On the contrary. You are telling her to ignore threats from someone without empathy and conscious. Someone without empathy and conscious IS DANGEROUS. It is therefore DANGEROUS to ignore DANGER.
This blog is not a competition on who had it worse, and who moves on the fastest. This blog is not about mysoginy or misandry.
I don’t care about whether you are a man or a woman or the gender of your spath, but I agree with Erin that your advice to BunnyWabbit is wrong and dangerous. So, yes, it would in some ways feed a spath’s control-game: ‘she moves, I win’. But once again, this is not a game to BunnyWabbit, even if it is to a spath. She is surviving and looking for peace to heal. Her safety comes first over winning mind games with a spath.
Darwinsmom
So right. NO ONE can move on while in survivior mode. My therapist said it a little dif… that you can’t even get into survivor mode when you are still being bombed with assaults. MUST Get out of being assaulted. That includes finding out about BIG emotional betrayals, b/c whether happening in front of your face or discovering them, betrayals are ASSAULTS.
And YES LIvvi, it is a very good idea to not make major decisions while in survivor mode. You don’t reason while in survivor. and You NEED reason to make good decisions that will change the rest of your life.
Wow, why is everyone jumping on Alex? he’s only saying what I and so many others have said: DON’T GIVE THEM ANY EMOTIONAL RESPONSE.
I have to agree with Alex. He’s looking at this from a philosophical stand point and it’s the correct one to look at it from.
When Jesus said, “turn the other cheek”, I finally get what He meant. When Jesus said, “if a man takes your coat, give him your shirt as well”. This is very confusing to spaths. If you give him your shirt, it means you don’t VALUE it. They have not idea what you value except by your actions and facial expressions. Give them your shirt and they will stop taking your clothes, because it appears you don’t value it.
Bunny is not being threatened with her survival, he’s threatening to slander her on Face Book. Do we tell her to respond like a child with a tit-for-tat? No. Ignore the bully. Gray rock him, and he will get bored and go away. If you engage him, he will stay in the game.
Their inability to know what anyone values means they look for us to point it out to them. Our actions and reactions are how we point to it. Our dramatic responses are how we reveal our hooks. Don’t reveal your hooks.
Healing is definitely a process and the first step in that process is understanding WTF? happened!! Your emotions are going to be the first clue. How you are feeling emotionally, is a communication from your subconscious – we must LISTEN to it. Then we must think about it without action. Only after gaining some knowledge and wisdom, can we act in a way that rises above the spath’s drama.
I GET that some of us are in physical danger from the spath, not just FaceBook danger. We must protect ourselves and our children – PHYSICALLY, with lawyers, guns and money!
But NO DRAMA, NO RETALIATION. Because the spaths don’t mind cutting off their nose to spite their face, they will spare no expense just to watch you expend all your energy trying to get revenge. One very effective method of protection is to divert their attention to something else. POINT to something you don’t value.
Your suffering is what they value, don’t let them see you sweat.
speaking of sweating.
my spath just emailed me again. argh. my disgust is a visceral reaction. I feel slimed. What is this? spath season?
livvi,
survival is anything that could cause you to die.
Several of us have spaths that kill people, mine does.
Even those that don’t kill directly, want to watch us die from stress, hunger, disease, freezing in the cold, or “accident” and “suicide”.
We have to take precautions.
Sky, BunnyWabbit mentioned that she has been threatened over email as well, and the list of threats were apparently sufficient for the police to confront the spath about and warn him to leave BunnyWabbit alone. It is not just about defamation.
Would you advize against someone changing their email, their phone number, or to another address when being harassed?
I’m not ‘attacking, Alex’, just disagreeing with his advice to stay out in the open for the spath to harrass her at will. I agree that one should not feed a spath. But I disagree with the idea that changing email and phone number or even moving is equal to feeding a spath.
Skylar, No emotional response……that is the value in NC.
Covert self protection is key.
This is part of the backspath…..leave no trace, serve it up cold and leave the public portrayal that all’s fine over here.
But…..”all these boards are people saying it was bad it was horrible well im done and im gonna live life like never before and everyone else should do the same ” is NOT good advice. It sounds like a good plan, but NOT realistic for many……at this point.
It reads to me…..stop crying and get over it!
While you ‘covertly’ protect yourself…..LF is a safe outlet to figure out, just what it was that you just lived. Figure out how you got caught up, share stories with others about various experiences and learn through others experiences that maybe you can relate to. Learn about red flags we ignored or didn’t realize were red flags……learn about what is acceptable behaviors in a relationship that maybe by our different childhood experiences we were not aware of.
Knowledge = power. Power over ourselves……and this is what LF offers.
I am dealing with a situation for 6 years now, my niece just had her 6th birthday. I know “No contact” is best, I wish I could do that, but then I will have to abandon my niece. It would have been easier to leave a psychopathic boyfriend than the situation I am in. Few people are aware of my situation on this site and have helped me a great deal!!! Thank You. Briefly this is my story: Sister In Law (SIL, brother’s wife) has total control of her daughter and is abusing her. She is very controlling with her, changes her likes to the opposite of what they are. If she dislikes scary rides she would work with her until the kid fakes to enjoy it. For example my niece is shy with a male teacher, she is in first grade. My SIL bragged to me how she talked to Mr. Jimmy (substituted for 2 days) non stop. She forces her to eat chocolate, when she clearly prefers vanilla shakes/white cakes! Any pleasurable activity for my niece is immediately taken away and my niece does not like that anymore! No playing with dolls, no soft feelings towards pets allowed. Basically, my niece is not able to be herself in anyway. Any accomplishments of my niece my SIL brags to me about, is usually an altered behavior pattern, of course altered my SIL. This is a huge revelation for me, took me a while to realize this. SIL uses techniques such as criticism, belittling her, challenging her with physically intense acvtivities, silent treatment, “if you don’t do what I say I wont be your friend any more”, “mommy is everything if you don’t have me you will have nothing”, etc. My brother who is still married to her is a total enabler. He knows the situation only too well, but says she is the mother she can do anything. He is weak and lazy, he does not want a divorce, lose financially etc. My mother lives with them, pays their mortgage and other expenses, keeps quiet, because she does not want to change her living situation. So SIL knows my mom and brother too well, plays on their weaknesses. With me, she blunts my niece’s emotions for me, makes her lie to me, etc. so then I would stop visiting too. After all I love my niece, the love is very much reciprocated, and that is my main motivation for my visits and spending time with her, and of course I care about her welfare. First time in my life I am challenged to love someone unconditionally, not easy sometimes. I am aware she is a brain washed child, abused child, yet when she keeps her distance with me, it is very stressful. SIL will usually tell me that I am welcome to visit, but gets her dirty work done through hurtful things done or said to me by my brother or niece. I have NEVER met anybody like this!!! Sometimes my niece will not even take her favorite candy from me, she will obey her mom to a T!!! SIL observes her, constantly interrogates her, spends all her time with her, consumes her in every way, constantly works on changing her likes to dislikes! Recently my niece had chest pain and they took her to the ER. My mother is not supposed to tell me this, brother & SIL does not want me to know. But she is ok, just stress/muscle strain they think. SIL has her in tap, ballet, piano, gymnastics, and tennis, she is only in first grade. My niece is not allowed any free time, always has a project or some activity she is engaged in, no spontaneous laughing/giggling time, talking, joking etc. Her mother plans all her time with what she should do!!! I have really had it, and the trip to the ER set me OFF! Also there is an old man in the grocery store my niece does not like, but SIL always says to kiss him on the lips, and my niece said she does not like it, she is scared of him and the moustache, the next time my mom went with them to the grocery store, he told my niece he shaved it off for her. This man is 60 something, gives me the creeps, and I don’t know what to make of this. I asked my Husband and his 3 brothers and they all said it is very creepy, they don’t allow their kids to kiss strangers, especially not on the lips. The ER trip and this incident among others, has really upset me to the max, and angered me, I am going to have a talk with SIL after the holidays. I know I may lose my privileges to my niece, but I cannot keep quiet anymore. SIL is very superficially charming, will bend over backwards for the neighbors, has charmed everyone at work(part time teller), fooled the teachers at niece’s school, volunteers her time, eager to make donations, etc. She completely paints a picture of a caring, overly dedicated mother to her, outside the home. The only emotions I have seen SIL express are rage & jealousy! SIL keeps the kid away from daddy & grandma, yet will make her kiss creepy people. My niece is a normal, loving kid, with all normal instincts & inhibitions, but SIL is targeting all of that, confusing the kid. Our inhibitions and instincts are our defenses, SIL is destroying that. SIL has no boundaries, she will do anything if it benefits her. She is now destroying the kid’s boundaries, the kid cannot have an opinion, her likes and dislikes are turned around to dislikes and likes, such psychological torture and manipulation, I have never seen! My niece is not happy, she is merely now a programmed robot, laughs and acts at her mother’s command, it is getting worse everyday and these visits are getting more stressful for me as well. I know I have to hang in there, but it is VERY hard! I am hoping for some miracle! Thanks everyone on this site, I feel like I needed to get this out! VENT VENT
The threats weren’t just on Facebook. I have numerous phone messages saved, personal email, work email, Facebook, forums, Craigs List, etc. The threats were to send all the emails and pics we’d exchanged to my boss and ex-husband. The threats was that his best friend is a famous actress who hates me and paid F. Lee Bailey a $50,000 retainer to fight any charges I would file against them if they did send said emails to my work and ex. They were threatening my ability to make money and loss of money from items from the ex that weren’t sold yet. They were threatening my reputation and possibly my ability to find work in my same field.
I agree that everyone is not in the same healing spot. I wasn’t trying to start an argument with anyone. I’ve had enough drama in my life to even try that. He told me his uncle was the mob boss Whitey Bulgar and that he’d been in the mob. He also told me he was a DEA agent. He said he could get anyone anywhere to do whatever he wanted with the right threats. He was posting my full name and where I lived on these sites. Thereby making another dangerous situation for me. I do have my conceal carry and I am a damn good shot with every one of my weapons. That is beside the point. The mental games and threats are the worse. That’s why I say I am just keeping an eye on him in the event I need to do damage control. I’ve had no contact with him for almost 3 months. However, his comments online are still going on. They have slowed, but not stopped. At this point, this is the only way I know to protect myself. As for moving, I am not moving because of him. I am relocating because it’s something I’ve always wanted to do, it just happens that this situation makes it more of a priority now.