We know only too well that by far the majority of psychopaths are men. Or at least we think we know that. Could it be that the criteria used to identify psychopaths are biased towards men? After all Hare began his work in male prison.
Think about it. While behaving and being the way the PCL-R without doubt earns one the label psychopath, this is simply a list of symptoms. It says nothing about the underlying dynamics. If psychopathy is life centered on the principle of power (as opposed to love) and if it is therefore characterised by what Liane Leedom nicely calls ‘warped empathy‘, then wouldn’t you expect there to be more or less the same number of woman as men psychopaths? And wouldn’t you expect them to come across differently?
I am beginning to wonder whether there may be two broad types of psychopathy – a ‘male’-type and a ‘female’-type. I place these in quotes because, when I think about it, men with might be thought of as ‘female’ psychopathy come to mind and we all know about women with ‘male’ psychopathy. And yet, at the risk of being un-PC, I want to maintain these descriptors for now so that the difference I think I see doesn’t disappear.
A ‘female’ psychopath would not necessarily commit crimianl/antisocial acts like her male counterpart, but she woud be as power-driven, as toxically narcissistic as a ‘male’ psychopath. The control, the manipulation, the dishonesty, the selfishness, the callousness – all these would be present, but we might not recognise them for what they are because of 1. media portrayal and 2. medical diagnosis of psychopaths. The difference would come in the gendered style of their behaviour.
In my clinical work I have come across this phenomenon. For example, a woman I now consider to be of the ‘female’-type of psychopath didn’t come close to committing a crime and yet the way she mothered her daughter, my patient, came close to destroying the child’s mind. This seems to me to be a perversion of motherhood eqivalent to the perversion of fatherhood we read about on this website.
Do readers have any comments? I’m particularly interested in any examples you might have of how ‘female’ psychopathy – if such a thing does exist – manifests itself?
Good Morning ALL:
So happy to read you this morning and hear you are doing alright, strongawoman AND Truthspeak.
I have a very ‘unsettling’ day today.
Later this afternoon, I am meeting with my cardiologist for a six month check up. We are going to get down to some brass tacks about my heart condition. I want an approximate idea of how much time, in his professional opinion, I do have left so that I can start rebuilding an ‘after spath life’ for myself. Not knowing what is truly happening to me is stifling my recovery from all of this.
Yes, we are ALL going to eventually ‘go’, some way or another. However, this is something I need to deal with,
my mortality. This is my life. Not something to be locked up inside file folders somewhere and me not being told how delicate my condition truly is. Everyone is keeping it from me and I don’t think it is right, much less legal.
I just want to know, in his humble opinion, OPINION, I am saying, caps used for emphasis, how much time I have.
I want to go back to college again and study a little more.
Everyone says: “Just live. Go do it.”
It isn’t that easy for me. I need to know for my own peace.
I earned that as a birth right to know what is happening to my own body.
Oh, yes…if we all only knew then, what we know now…
I can honestly say that so far, nothing really positive can be found in my previous association with ppath. Oh yes, there is all of you; all of the professionals and doctors I have met along the way…everyone who has truly UNDERSTOOD my situation has been very gracious and compassionate and warm. Those are the ‘good parts’ of this horrid experience.
But, if I sift through the memories, this far away now, there really isn’t much ‘good’ left when I cut out the chaff.
Know what I mean? Not with “IT”.
I am like you, Truthspeak, I have never been ‘okay’ in my life. Not solidly, firmly, okay, inside myself and if we can’t be okay with ourselves first, how can we ever be okay with anyone else? That is just the way I have found it to be.
If we are ‘okay’ with ourselves, we exude a certain confidence and attitude that repels ugly people like the ones we have just encountered. It’s letting US take over ourselves and living and standing up for what we believe in and know is right.
I am still an absolute MESS.
I don’t think I am ever going to be ‘normal’ again.
Not after all of this. If I had another lifetime, I would love to sue him for all of the things he has tried to do to me.
But, you know what?
What’s left of this life IS MINE and NOT “ITS”.
It gets no more attention from me.
Of any kind. Ever again.
The demon can just slither back into the hole from which it climbed and steer clear of me…
I just KNOW you are going to be alright you guys.
It just takes time mending the insides. Stay NC and
it will help bolster and empower you.
I CAN HEAR you getting stronger, Truthspeak.
I am so very proud of you.
That takes a lot and I know it does.
I admire your strength, determination and courage.
I am still here with you.
I will be thinking of you guys today and wishing you
happiness, success and the best of everything…
Dupey
Aw Dupey, You are in my heart too, my friend. Wishing you everything you wish for yourself. There’s an old Yorkshire saying which holds true ……..You never know what’s round the corner.
Many best wishes to you Dupey. You’re kindness to me on this site is something I hold dear …..If you had never had this experience I would never have had “met” you……and that would be my misfortune.
Hugs to you. Lots of love xx
(((strongawoman))) Thanks for the hugs.
And for the wonderful wishes. They come right back
at you, you know! How are things in Beautiful Yorkshire?
That is exactly right: “You never know what’s round the corner.” That is hope. Isn’t it?
It is difficult not being kind to someone who is so special as you are and don’t you ever forget that. “Hands Across the Ocean”.. If I had never had this ugly experience in my life, I surely would not have ever met you. Hm? Aw, you are so very nice. ((strongawoman)) Just remember the misfortune would be a two way street, My Dear, had I not known your cheery and inspirational self. Thanks for the ‘back up’, Missy.
I have been STALKED three times today.
And the modus operandi has changed.
Now we are ::blocking:: ID and phone numbers prior to “THEIR” calling….a change in phone numbers lurks on the horizon, with a double duty restriction on release of the number. If that doesn’t work, then I will go with a cellular.
No response is ever returned from me.
And, I do keep logs. Dates, times, etc.
I probably will keep logs now for the rest of my natural life. Hm?
Zeesh: the repercussions from dealing with a psychopath….
I received an ‘excellent’ report from my cardiologist yesterday. He even has removed me from one of my medications. I am so thrilled. I haven’t gotten a response from him as to ‘length of time I have to live’ and his reason was, as he told me:
“Everyone who comes through what you have just come through with your heart handles it differently. It’s like an intricate, one of a kind piece of crystal. Once it has a crack in it, it must be treated differently, on every single piece of crystal a crack may arise in. I can’t give you an approximate because it is different for every single person, uniquely.”
He also said: “I don’t know how you have managed to do it but whatever you have done and/or are doing, you are doing it wonderfully and I want you to know, although I can’t ‘call’ your longevity, I fixed something that was broken in your heart. You should feel better now and live longer. KEEP THE STRESS AWAY FROM YOU AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE!”
That’s just it, I don’t feel better. I made all of my symptoms known to him yesterday and not even a suggestion was made as to correcting the problems but taking me off of one of my medications may help me immensely.
I am starting to see an ‘after ppath’ life for myself.
Although the stalking still continues, I am managing to
thrive and flourish. (Guess that goes to show ‘who’ is,
was, and always will be stronger between the two of us,
ppath and me).
“I” am bouncing out of that hellish black hole while “IT”
is just going to aimlessly wander about in the sewer for the rest of it’s life. How pathetic. What a pointless life.
I am sharing this to show you all that YES: there is HOPE.
YES: there IS a new tomorrow. (Caps used for emphasis).
I am climbing out of that ‘slithering, slimy, ugly, dank hole “IT”
has had me locked in the past five years and I am starting to smell the fresh air and sunshine on my face.
And with each moment, I am becoming more empowered than I was with the last.
Love from the Left Coast of America, Dearie…
Blessings and hugs ~ Dupey xxoo
Dupey, I am so glad you are feeling a bit more positive. Yes, sadly human beings can have a “broken” heart……well only the ones who had a heart to begin with.
I know you are managing this thing that stalks you, but it must be very stressful knowing he is lurking. I do worry about you as I’m sure others here do.
Yorkshire is very beautiful at the moment. It’s been quite wet here in England so, again it’s very green and lush and just so very pretty ….when the sun shines! It’s a lovely morning 8.20 here. Hopefully I will get out in my garden today it’s so overgrown.
Look after yourself dearest Dupey doo.
Love from the UK xx
strongawoman: so nice to read you.
I hope you have a lovely day in your garden.
Enjoy it for me too. Would ya?
“Managing this thing that stalks me”; hm…..
It is stressful because I can never be sure what he might do.
He is not a stable person at all.
I have deduced that these ‘outbursts’ are moments he is thinking of me, be it good or bad.
This ‘thing’ has been obsessed with me for ten years now and I pretty well ‘have it down’ now….
as long as I do maintain NC, it will eventually go away. (Hopefully; there is nothing here for it).
Don’t worry. (Thank you for your concern…)
I have a whole force of Angels looking out for me!
I am very blessed. I am just trying to physically and medically hold myself together. That is an entirely different aspect to deal with all together. A whole separate ball of wax. At once, dealing with the medical and the emotional/psychological has
not been a very easy task. I seem to have been fighting for my life on several levels, all at once. Overwhelming.
It’s irritating after “IT” has been told to STOP IT, that it continues.
We are becoming more ‘sophisticated’ now in our stalking techniques.
I continue to remain solidly NC.
I refuse to allow my temper to break it.
I just bet Yorkshire is very beautiful!!!!! ~~
When I dream, I dream in a valley in Yorkshire, smelling the soft rain and all that beautiful green. ahhhh!!!!!
I imagine it’s what Heaven must look and smell like.
I am doing alright.
I am starting to “live” again.
It’s starting to get left ‘behind me’…
I am fighting for me now.
Love ya bunches: take care Lady.
Always in my prayers and thoughts…
Love to the Beautiful UK ~
xxoo
Well, I’m moving through the days and I’m not really finding any solutions, yet.
I’m feeling concerned for my son. He keeps having disturbing dreams aobut the colleague and his g/f. They always involve a confrontation and end with us being kicked out into the street. I try to explain that his anxiety is “normal,” but that he has to refocus on something. This is difficult for him, since we are not welcome in any other parts of the house while they’re at home.
The colleague and his g/f neither speak to us, nor respond to us, except with one-word “morning,” or grunts. My son and I spend nearly every minute in the room that I rent. We take our meals in there, we watch movies on the DVD player, and it is 100% toxic, here, at all times.
At the present, since transportation is an issue, neither of us are able to get to our counselors to learn how to manage our feelings and fears, and this is more devastating than being unable to get to a grocery store. I know that we will both be involved in some intensive counseling once we are settled somewhere – even if it’s temporary.
This experience with the colleague, heaped on top of the experiences with the exspath, have really put my ability to trust other people six feet under. It may have been immature for the colleague to assure us that we’d “have a place for as long as” we needed one – sure, it was. I believe that he meant the words, but that he was coerced into breaking that assurance, without a doubt.
I’m not feeling desperate or despairing, today. I’m feeling resolved, to some degree, but also very sad. I’m feeling sad because I had no other choices when I arrived at my colleague’s home, and I never anticipated that he would be involved with someone who was so vicious.
This woman has such an evil intent that I’ll be grateful to get out of here, regardless of where I end up. I may have posted this, before, but I once saw her deliberately attempt to kill flowers that had grown up in the yard as a result of a bird feeder that I had asked permission to place. Sunflowers had sprung up from seeds that birds had dropped, and I was delighted by this – big mistake to demonstrate delight in even the most simplest of things, right? One day, she had mopped her floor with a bleach solution. After she was done, I watched her take the bucket of bleach water outside, and pour it directly at the roots of the burgeoning sunflowers. She didn’t know that I had witnessed this, and I never mentioned it because this isn’t my house, my yard, or my space. About a week later, the sunflowers wilted and never blossomed.
After she paid a man to sexually approach my son as a joke, and bragged to me about having done it, her malicious intent was solidified.
Where possible female spaths are concerned, I have to develop some strict rules:
#1: if they discuss money, they’re out
#2: if they discuss what a difficult childhood they had, they’re out
#3: if they give expensive “things” to me, early on, that I don’t want and didn’t ask for, they’re out
#4: if they offer to pay for something, early on, that I can’t afford to pay for, myself, they’re out
#5: if they constantly make off-color sexual remarks, they’re out
#6: if I observe them causing another person (or, myself) to feel guilty about anything – ANYthing – they’re out
#7: if I observe any form of verbal, emotional, physical, sexual, or financial abuse, they’re out
The list could go on, but then it would dissolve into specifics that aren’t important, at this point.
My belief is that females that fit the profile of sociopaths are far more devious and cruel in their machinations. We see a great deal of discussion on this site (and, others) about the male spaths, and it behooves us to keep in mind that females can create the same type of carnages in a far more subtle and effective manner.
I cannot describe how relieved I’ll be when we finally exit this toxic environment. I’m really fighting the feeling of hatred for this woman – she is despicable in every way, and any “act of kindness” or generosity was tainted with manipulation. UGH…..
Brightest blessings
Truthspeak, I can so identify with the high anxiety, hiding in your bedroom and walking on egg-shells. I am so sorry.
It is all very painful, because of your sense of powerlessness in the situation. Remember that this “feeling” of captivity is a necissary ingredient to the formation of a trauma bond…also necissary is a seduction, that is, a promise, and then, a betrayal. Wa-la.
I see you heaping all blame on spathy GF and letting your collegue off the hook. He’s the one who made the promise, don’t forget.
When my SIL decided that he wanted me out, he used a lot of bullying tactics, that through me right into PTS panic. All I had to do was read an intimidating and insulting text from him at 7 am, and My stomache would knot up, and my hands would shake. I, too, hid in my room. It’s a horrible way to live.
You will survive this and learn from it, Truthy.
I now have my own space, that I love, peace, no need to defer to anyone, a decent job, and I know you will too.
Kim Frederick, absolutely the colleague made the offer and the assurances that we would be “safe” and secure for as long as it took. And, I asked him, specifically, if there was a time limit before we ever moved in.
He’s not off the hook, but I can clearly see how he’s in the situation that he’s in. He may, or may not, ever recognize the damage that he and his g/f inflicted, but I have a feeling that he really doesn’t care, anymore.
I just want to put this whole thing to an end.
Thanks for your encouragement and support.
Brightest blessings
Truthspeak, this may not be the popular opinion, but this talk about the damage your host is inflicting and “letting him off the hook” prompted a few thoughts, and I hope they are heard in the right spirit. When someone offers you a place to stay, they are not obligated to continue to let you stay there if it gets to a point where it doesn’t work for them. They have a right to change their mind and go back on a promise. People have the right to take care of their own needs. They also have the right not to offer you the emotional support you need. Maybe he is in over his head and he finds that he cannot give you the support you need. Maybe you push his buttons. Who knows? It may not have anything to do with you. But we ALL have the right to change our minds about things like this. So his gf killed some sunflowers that you liked. Maybe she doesn’t like flowers. So maybe she’s not the warmest fuzziest person. Maybe she is jealous of you or doesn’t like you. But that doesn’t necessarily make them both spaths or out to get you. It means these are not people you would willingly choose to be around if you had a choice. It is not his obligation to choose you over his gf. It may not be the nicest thing to do to you, but he has a right to make his choices. Next time, you’ll choose better – better friends and better living arrangements. Some of the choices I made when I was homeless and desperate were not great either. I wish I could have a do-over – I would have stayed in a shelter. In fact, the two weeks I spent in a women’s safehouse were some of the best weeks I remember during those days. Is this a possibility for you and your son?
Personally, I find the majority of people toxic and would not want to live with them, even the very nice, kind ones. I’m very sensitive to other people’s energies, so it’s better to live alone until I find someone I really want to live with.
I wish you could somehow have a smile in your heart right now that there ARE some caring people out there, and you WILL be okay. When the help comes, don’t be afraid to let it in and trust a little, okay? Also, the more you can take care of your own emotional needs, calming and nurturing yourself, the more you will attract others who are nurturing toward you. You WILL be okay. 🙂 You will get through this. You will look back one day and shake your head and say, “What was I thinking?” Please start imagining yourself in a safe and nurturing environment for you and your son. Imagine what it would feel like. This will draw it to you more quickly. Who knows, it might even change the attitudes of your current hosts.
If I could rewrite your circumstances in a more positive light, it would be that you are very fortunate you found someone to give you a free place to stay for however long it has lasted. If it were me in your situation, I would probably express this to the guy instead of being angry at him. I would thank him and tell him you completely understand he needs his space back. I’d let him know I was trying as hard as I could to find another place. And I’d ask him what I could do to make the situation a little easier for him in the meantime. For instance, would it be better if I were away a good part of the day? It’s very possible a little communication instead of judgement and blame could help this situation. Maybe not. But it’s worked for me a number of times. Some of the people I had the biggest issues with turned out to be great friends because of having these kinds of conversations.
Star,
Truth is actually paying rent. It isn’t a free place to stay.
I would like to present the opposite possibility to what you presented. It’s possible that he loves drama and invited her to rent a space knowing it would cause drama because Truth is in a bad situation. Consider his choice of girlfriends as exhibit #1.
I know that you try to look at the good perspective and I think that’s important. That’s what I used to do, but now I have a different spin on it.
You see, the good things aren’t going to harm you, if they are really good. So I don’t have to “watch out” for them. I recognize good things and good people easily. What’s harder to recognize is the bad things because they usually are disguised as good. That’s why it’s important to learn to recognize the tell-tale signs –so you can know what to expect.
Even if people are not spaths, but just a mixture of good and bad, when their bad parts rear the ugly heads, we want to be prepared. That’s why knowing about spaths is so important. They are an example of how not to be and when we see someone acting a little bit like a spath, we understand that it can lead to a little bit MORE like a spath, and then a little bit MORE.
The girlfriend playing that evil joke on her son, is a huge red flag. In fact, I would consider it illegal. She had an adult man proposition the boy for sex. sick.
The host, being her bf, knows her well, yet he accepts her. He also likes to come home and pout and fume so as to make the rest of the household uncomfortable. She is walking on eggshells, as is her son. These are red flags and Truth is taking them into account. Normal people do NOT behave this way. I’m not saying he’s a spath, just addicted to drama.
It’s possible that Truth would have taken the room regardless, because she was desperate. But maybe she could have gray rocked them sooner.