We know only too well that by far the majority of psychopaths are men. Or at least we think we know that. Could it be that the criteria used to identify psychopaths are biased towards men? After all Hare began his work in male prison.
Think about it. While behaving and being the way the PCL-R without doubt earns one the label psychopath, this is simply a list of symptoms. It says nothing about the underlying dynamics. If psychopathy is life centered on the principle of power (as opposed to love) and if it is therefore characterised by what Liane Leedom nicely calls ‘warped empathy‘, then wouldn’t you expect there to be more or less the same number of woman as men psychopaths? And wouldn’t you expect them to come across differently?
I am beginning to wonder whether there may be two broad types of psychopathy – a ‘male’-type and a ‘female’-type. I place these in quotes because, when I think about it, men with might be thought of as ‘female’ psychopathy come to mind and we all know about women with ‘male’ psychopathy. And yet, at the risk of being un-PC, I want to maintain these descriptors for now so that the difference I think I see doesn’t disappear.
A ‘female’ psychopath would not necessarily commit crimianl/antisocial acts like her male counterpart, but she woud be as power-driven, as toxically narcissistic as a ‘male’ psychopath. The control, the manipulation, the dishonesty, the selfishness, the callousness – all these would be present, but we might not recognise them for what they are because of 1. media portrayal and 2. medical diagnosis of psychopaths. The difference would come in the gendered style of their behaviour.
In my clinical work I have come across this phenomenon. For example, a woman I now consider to be of the ‘female’-type of psychopath didn’t come close to committing a crime and yet the way she mothered her daughter, my patient, came close to destroying the child’s mind. This seems to me to be a perversion of motherhood eqivalent to the perversion of fatherhood we read about on this website.
Do readers have any comments? I’m particularly interested in any examples you might have of how ‘female’ psychopathy – if such a thing does exist – manifests itself?
yes ladies, my OW was one; seducing and sleeping with my husband, but denying everything to me, as well as to her husband ,till private investigators dug out the entire dirt.. and when I asked her, she acted so surprised, I almost thought I got the wrong person on phone.. she even said she had vacated her flat 2 years back, but I found it was still hers, and my husband and she were meeting up there secretly; and, yes, she did manage to climb up the professional ladder VERY fast this way as my husband was very powerful there…she has shown no remorse for hurting anyone, in fact, it appears she is pretty thrilled with all that she could achieve with this deception…. apparently, she has also lost interest in my husband after moving ahead professionally and is looking out for new victims..
This post resonates the conclusion I have drawn from my experiences with the sociopath who targeted my husband.
I started a blog ( spermdonorswife.wordpress.com) to post a few recaps of my story to help me not forget and to let others read a little about my experience with MALIFICENT Von Voldemorte … that I now believe is a female psychopath thanks to sites like lovefraud.
I didn’t know what I was dealing with …who lies like this ? The police would do nothing about the petty, relationship, yet felony crimes she committed. Like outright falsification of government document for ID frauds. No conscience , no guilt, remorse or shame for her deceitful actions.
.. By others refusing to deal with her manipulations and deceptions it snowballed into an unbelievable con of pity ploys that duped the female judge . The trial occured over 9 years after the married woman…. ( who conned, compromised and then raped by deceptions my husband into ” willingly under duress” being a sperm donor) … sought to disestablish her husband as the legal father. Who aided, abetted and “willingly ” ( Stockholm syndrome ?) condoned and supported his ex wife’s actions to keep the child to herself.
The child of adultery is the vessel for her creating the perfect replica of herself. The boy has been isolated and brainwashed… And is being groomed to reject his other family , ( once she established paternity only for revenge and for child support)…because I am perceived as a threat to her self-serving agenda.
Thanks for this site. My story is a great example of a callous , manipulating female type of Pyschopath.
I have posted this link several times before because it is very useful, especially for providing real-life descriptions of each sociopath “type”.
http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2010/01/27/12-characteristics-psychopaths-sociopaths
My x-spath, though a gay male, behaved like a Lisa Scott’s Female Psychopath:
“The Female Psychopath: Using her false mask, this charming “Southern Belle” schemer appears helpless or needy, pitiful, inept or emotionally unable to cope. Even total strangers give her things she gratefully accepts. Falsely claiming to be the victim, this passive parasite lures and abuses the normal protector/ provider instincts in her male target. When her mask comes off she is cunning, ruthless, predatory, and loveless.”
Instead of a Southern Belle, his MO was charming “British Lad”…
Particularly striking to me was the following: “appears helpless or needy, pitiful, inept or emotionally unable to cope” — an online name of the x-spath was “Clueless Lad”.
In addition, he is also part Jekyll/Hyde Psychopath:
“Appearing to be our ‘soulmate’, he falsely mirrors our values, interests, goals, philosophies, tastes and habits. He mimics our ambition, integrity, honesty and sincerity…
He portrays false integrity, appears helpful, comforting, generous in his ‘idealization’ of us phase. It never lasts as Jekyll turns into Hyde. He blames others. His victims are objectified and disposable. He convincingly mimics human emotions. His lack of conscience is shocking, incomprehensible and emotionally painful to us. We remember his odd reaction to situations…
He will have numerous relationships. He may drop verbal clues about his true character early in the relationship, but we fail to grasp its meaning. Later, when the psychopath eventually emerges, we remember his early warning. ”
The above is an amazingly accurate portrayal of him, especially odd reactions and verbal clues I missed,
Lastly, the Promiscuous Psychopath:
“Pornography, hypersexuality, masturbation, poor boundaries, exhibitionism, use of prostitutes, incest are reported by his targets. Anyone, young, old, male/female are there for his gratification. This predator takes what is available. Can have a preference for ‘sado-maso’ sexuality. Easily bored, he demands increasingly deviant stimulation. The internet a favourite hunting ground. However, another type exists, the one who withholds sex or affection.”
Withheld sex from me.
While I thought the x-spath was in fact such, I was in partial denial until I saw these descriptions — I was floored.
OMG….it’s all there,especially in the last description!
Incredible, “Clueless Lad” BBE. The appeal to the protective instincts of generous empaths. For a man in his 30’s to refer to himself as “lad” is totally misleading in a Brit context too. It almost always means “boy” or “very young man” here, the exception being when used between adult male close friends or relatives in the North West of England almost as a term of endearment.
I kid you not — and most of his attire was American Eagle Outfitters. Thankfully, I only knew him in the winter. It would be humiliating for a Manhattan gay man to be seen with a 30-something wearing the attire of suburban straight teenagers. Truly clueless, even pathetic.
I did pickup upon that he did not seem to have any what I would call nice clothes or even something appropriate for an adult going to nice places in NYC, of course on me…
Don’t get me wrong as I am neither a snob nor a label queen and most dress casual. But I do know when not to wear a hoodie. Red Flag missed…
American Eagle Outfitters sounds like a place Scouts would go to buy shorts and those little neckerchiefs. This man child scousepath has some resistance to maturing. Perhaps that’s why he refused sex BBE perhaps he saw you as a father figure…Also on my mind tonight, and why not, what would the gay male equivalent of the Madonna Whore complex be? Would they divide partners into Daddy Providers they don’,t have sex with but idolise, and man-whores they hate but have sex with?
Exactly. Although the scousepath did not view me as a father figure — maybe more of a big brother that he never had. A have a friend that I mountain bike with who is a doctor. His sister-in-law is Bipolar and he has several other dysfunctional relatives. Thus, while not a psychologist, he is well versed in mental illness.
I remember him telling me that it seemed to him that the scousepath became comfortable with me very quickly. Thus, to him I became “family” he treated me as such — dysfunctionally.
Clearly, this guy has maturity issues — the first online profile I came across had something like “i have given up the grown-up world to fly with an airline…”
As I said, if I wanted “revenge” on him, those new pictures he posted are them.
BBE, Blossom, help. I just picked up the phone I knew it was him I just picked up and he was spinning his web about his wife leaving and how he wanted me to fly there to his town in France the day after she and their son leave the last day of June. I felt this cold fury listeningtto this. I kept my voice neutral and I started to ask questions.
I asked him if the little boy was aware they were separating. Yes. Are they divorcing. No. Why not? Because he has to protect his son. From what? Bullshit about inheritance matters. He doesnt realise I know that under French inheritance laws parents cannotdisown their children. Children are protected by law and automatically receive a percentage of a parent’s estate. It makes no difference if their parents are divorced. If I come will all their things be gone from the apartment? No, there will still be things here. It’s too complicated to send them all at once to her country. What if your son doesn’t like it there? I don’t know. Willyour wife come back in that event? I don’t know.
This malicious pervert has spent over a year trying systematically to destroy me with his bullshit. I just wanted to pull his mask off, to tell him, I know what you are. I started laughing at him. I said ” that’s enough now , xxxxx” as you would to a child that you’ve been humouring. He started laughing too either he was confused or nervous or he just didn’t care I was not playing his game any longer. He frightens me. I said you didn’t have my consent. It was rape. He said no, no. You know my character, I am dominant but always respectful. It was surreal. Like talking to a madman. I said don’t ever contact me again. I’m shaking like a leaf.
Tea;
An important part of manipulation that I learned, mostly here, is that people use both goodness and sense of guilty to have their way with us. And not just sociopaths use this tactic — I get it from my mother all the time.
We are only responsible for ourselves and dependents, be they children or a current significant other. We do not owe any responsibility to our parents, an ex or the children of an ex.
My mother uses guilt to control me in a classic Irish Catholic fashion — even at the age of 43. She is moving and the other day I was with her going thru some clothes I have in storage at her place and she pulled out a long wool coat of mine — “you will need this if you ever get a real job.”
She does not support my business efforts because she does not approve of them. Also, she wants to boast of her son the “Bank Executive” not the photographer and vendor of high-end prints and fine art reproduction. May reasons, but one is that such is way to gay for her.
Due to my health situation and, to be honest age, after 4 years of not working a “real” job, I could not go back to Wall Street even if I wanted. More important, stress working with these sociopath was a direct cause of my heart problem and subsequent open-heart surgery.
Yet my mother won’t be happy until I am in a Wall Street job working myself to an early grave.
Perhaps another reason is now that she is in her 70s, she sees me making a lot of money as some security for her, yet went we were at dinner the other day, she ordered a very unhealthy meal even when I asked her not too.
Her sister is wrapped up in her children’s lives. Her best friend lives with her daughter. Another has a unwed daughter with child living at home. Nothing would please her more than to live in a two family home with me and that will never happen.
Interestingly, most of what I call her functional friends have one thing in common — all their children live completely apart from their parents, most in other states.
While difficult, I do not feel guilty about wanting to live my life on my terms from now on. For a variety of reasons I moved from Philadelphia to New York to be closer to family and to actually be many of those things my mother wanted me to be. And I was miserable and almost worked myself to death.
By pulling children into this, your x-spath is merely trying to manipulate you. As I said above, we are only responsible for ourselves and our direct dependents, not only legally but morally. Even if he was merely an x-husband and not a sociopath, you have no responsibility, legal or moral, to him or his children.
Like my mother, he is using guilt and your goodness to manipulate you. While my mother is controlling, she is not a sociopath. However, I very much use the “Gray Rock” approach to dealing with her. I tell her as little about my life as possible. I try only go to Long Island for holidays and family events. Conversely, I rather her come to the City to see me (with my brother and family friends) as this means I don’t have to do what I loathe — being on Long Island, sitting around and talking gossip or listening to what this one’s son is doing or that one…
Since you are triggered by your x-spath, Gray Rocking him is not going to work for you. Next time he calls, be prepared — tell him that he made his bed and now he needs to sleep in it. Then tell him to stop contacting you.
Script out what you need to say.
Then block him.
I blocked him BBE he buys new sims so I’ll have to change the number if it continues. I didn’t see what you saw. He uses the boy to get me to accept his sick deluded plan, to have me as a mistress and to make me accept he will not divorce ever ( too costly and first divorce cost him heavily) . He wants rid of his wife and child but if the child refuses to settle he may be confronted with costly divorce or reconciliation. So he’d pick reconciliation.
Remember this man told me he was separated for 6 months and asked me three times to marry him before he attacked me.
I actually am proud I said ” you raped me”. He is the sickest individual I ever met. And if you saw him …he looks so very very normal.
I’ll be joining the 43 club this Tues.
Mummy should be hugely proud of you BBE.
They all seem to look normal. I was scanned again by the person who I think is the x-spath. I told hem to meet me at a particular place last night (one that we went to) and he actually responded with “do you have another face pic?” I told him that has one…
He does not know that I have changed locations since we met. In addition, my illnesses really made me reflect on many things. I was a competitive bike racer and to be so, I needed to keep my weight low and became obsessive about it.
Right before I met the x-spath, my illnesses reduced my weight to the low 160’s and I looked sick. Right then and their, I decided: 1) to get healthier; 2) give up competition forever, which my heart operation took care of anything.
When I met the x-spath, I was working out and gaining weight, but still was thin compared to now. With 20 pounds more on me than when he knew me, and stress free outside of family, I look like a different person and in a better sense. Recently I ran into one friend who I had not seen since then and he did not recognize me.
I think that is happening with the x-spath — he sees the resemblance but details are different — 20 pounds more, different location. And I look different — full and younger in the face.
That is why he asked for another picture. I did not go to the bar, bth…
What if he contacts you again? Angry that you weren’t there at the bar? It may well be expath if you look quite a bit altered in the photo. It’s the birthday I am worried might trigger contact . You were correct, it triggered narcissistic panic in the abuser. He said as a “joke” before “crying” on my answerphone ” I can’t believe I am now 50, it’s unbelievable, I have grey hairs, its une horreur ” just so ,OTT and vain and ridiculous. The father of a 20 year old and a 6 year old.
It was my choice not to go to the bar. First, there was no guarantee that he would show or that it was even the x-spath and second, I was very tired from a long day mountain biking.
I am no longer afraid of him nor do I have any lingering feels. I just would love the opportunity to set the record straight face-to-face.
But I am even more sure now it is him — on his profiles, he often uses cryptic messages “the rest is for me to know and you to figure out” (or something like that) or a cryptic name (one name is “semidet” (semi-detached) an indication of his personality and the place where he lives…
On this profile, its “work it out” which could have several meanings, not the least being the title of a Beyonce song and i know he likes her…
He has graying hair, pronounced lines on his face — no long a “boy” or fit for American Eagle clothing. He would be floored to see me now and I hope one day this happens, even if this guy is not him.
Tea Light,
I’m so sorry I wasn’t able to read your SOS and reply to it earlier.I’m going through alot physically right now,so spending less time on the computer.Sometime very soon,expecting to have back surgery due to the lumbar spinal stenosis.Just this weekend found out that it has caused damage to my feet already,in the form of neuropathy.Between the steroids to keep the inflammation down and the muscle relaxers,I feel zonked out,most of the time.I took a pain pill once~boy was that a good nap!
Oh Blossom, I’m so sorry to hear this, I know you were due back in the hospital a couple of weeks back but it sounds like the inflammation and meds are really slowing you down right now. Please take good care Blossom and don’t allow your husband’s stalking and harassing your father to break your no contact which seems to have worked so well for your emotional recovery despite these serious physical problems you are having to manage. God bless and hope you feel less uncomfortable fast.
Tea Light, hopefully BBE and Blossom will jump in soon. Since I’m here now I wanted to say #1 that you are a presence here that is highly valued for your insight and humanity. #2 being freaked out right now is normal when the predator that has stalked and attacked you is howling, even from a distance. You are not stupid or over reacting. Your body is telling you something. Trust yourself. When he said you know my character, remember that’s exactly the point – the character he is Playing would never do such horrendous things. His character as in his true self not only did those things to you in the past, but just today gaslighted you. He is continuing to be the vile entity that he will always be, and he as you know is not above using anything ( including your concern for the child’s welfare ) if it serves him in any way. Don’t let the shapeshifter in the door. All he needs is a crack. Btw It took me over 2 hrs to write this because the sociopath playing the role of my wife has been in and out all morning and I have to keep my mask on around her for now. Be strong my friend.
I will second 4Lights comments. There was a time when just an online profile of the x-spath would trigger me. I can only imagine what my reaction then would have been had the scousepath actually called me on the phone!
My getting over him (first by really understanding him) is testament to time and the support of those here.
You are an LF success story BBE. Will you write your story as s full article one day?
4light thank you so much for your kindness you and the wonderful BBE have made me cry. It’s so important to know there are such good people out there, here, it never ceases to touch me when I come to LF in need of advice from fellow travellers.
I was frightened by the line”you know my character” . I do know it, but he believes in his own mask. I don’t think he believes he did anything wrong. Or he knows and he is gaslighting me as you suspect.
God help me I’m so tired of this thing in my life. I must do everything possible to have no contact ever again. Ever.
Don’t let your wife see your posts 4 light….there might be awful repercussions. Take are.
You both saw how he uses his child to obtain sex…I never confronted that fact before. He hasn’t seen his older son for 7 years and uses this little boy like that. I remember one of the first times he called me from France after meeting me here in my country – he had taken his wedding ring off, he was here for work. He had his son with him in the park. He told me his son’s mother and he lived apart. The boy was playing nearby whilst his father was trying to cheat on his mother. When the little boy came up to him he performed being a living father, calling the child ” cheri” . It was part of the seduction.
Then when he confessed he still lived with his wife he cried and shouted no, no, don’t leave me down the phone when I ended it. The child was in the next room, the mother was in France and they were on holiday by themselves. I told him to hang up and to go and reassure his 6 year old, immediately.
He put the little boy in front of the television and would call me and would want phone sex. He masturbated sometimes I realised. I realised eventually his wife was at her Saturday job. He would call from their bedroom. Once the little boy wanted a drink and came to find his father . He had locked the door and he shouted : what do you want? I knew there was something terribly wrong I feel so ashamed I agreed to meet him after this. He said over and over I love my son. He would send me photos of the two of them, then of himself at that age. He liked that his son looks identical to himself as a child.
This guy is beyond a mess. Funny that intelligent persons such as ourselves can be lured by these monsters. I am becoming more and more convinced that relationships with sociopaths are “perfect storms” of romance — many factors combine to create something very powerful and destructive.
I think the hard part is knowing that as such, had all those ingredients not been there, there would have been some thunder and lightning but no Hurricane or Tornado.
Your x-spath uses his little boy as part of his game. For years, my x-spath played being one…
I actually feel for his children but as I said, do not allow your caring side regarding his children affect what you need to do.
Can you block a whole country code? That would prevent him from calling you with different numbers. Or, simply do what I do when I get a call from a number that is not on my phone contact list — don’t answer it. If it is the x-spath and he leaves a message, immediately delete the message without listening to art and block that number.
There are only three solutions I can think of BBE. Change my number, don’t answer any unknown numbers, or press ahead with the stressful restraining order process which I’d rather not put myself through as it involves interpol serving him notice of the court hearing here in my country at which he can be present. It’s very much last resort. I’m taking your advice, and changing my number if he persists. The end of this month will be in itself a perfect storm as he’ll be losing his cleaner and cook , his second son, and with them his mask of respectability. I have to be mentally strong by then. I feel better today already. I know what he is now. I have coping skills now I didnt have when he blindsided me. I’d no experience of this kind of abuse. The lovebombing, the lies. Like most of us, we just didn’t have the knowledge to see it for what it was. Thanks BBE for all your kindness and compassion and for making me laugh too.
What I always found particularly helpful about this site is that when we just state facts as they are, it helps us see the dysfunction in them, because others see the dysfunction even when we may miss it.
The best word I can come up with regarding your x-spath (besides sociopath) is pathetic. That is the next best word for mine, but in a different way.
The alligator tears over his son then wanting phone sex is pathetic. My x-spath has a pic online of him posing and trying to look sexy when in fact he looks pathetic just like his taste for teenager clothing at nearly 40…
Hi, gosh I’m always so sad to hear stories like this. Horrifyingly to me, these two stories just bring to mind my DH’s ex wife and her “playing” her [poor, in my eyes] new husband/ex married boss. There were lots of kid interactions while she was still married to my-now DH, to receive fawning over the kids and make her seem a loving/great mom, all while this intelligent man overlooked the fact that she was exposing her kids to her infidelity which would affect their entire lives, while keeping DH in the dark. The whole thing, every trait in the spectrum is so hard to fathom. It is good for considering learning what and how to request things from these disorders, even if not to change them, but to admit it to yourself, and if consciously undertaken, to ensure to yourself that the spathy one sees their bad behaviors. In my experience this is met with outraged denials, which to me now, are just laughable because then they stop, or slow a little bit. Knowing they are seen, may affect my DH’s spathy ex.
Healthy boundaries, and respectful requests are a good way back toward self respect, as well as to model for … anyone. This female perspective really hits me. I also work with kids in court and I’ve been a part of looking at how this issue can be raised in attorney training for family court matters. From all news related to this posted here, it seems there is a strong need for additional education in that industry.
BBE if I won the lottery I’d like a Beatriz Milhazes print. That would be nice.
If you find a large size digital image of a print that you like, I can reproduce it on virtually any media — canvas, traditional papers, aluminum sheets…
I have done reproductions of and El Greco and a Renoir that are stunning. For both, I went to the Metropolitan Museum of Art, photographed the originals, digitally repaired any defects and printed them on canvas. Other than close up, they look like actual paintings.