This week I want to reach out to all of you who feel that you can no longer trust people. Imagine a world where your worst fears have come true, a world where everyone over the age of 15 is a sociopath. What would it be like to live in that world?
If you only read one book this summer, I strongly urge you to read Chimpanzee Politics: Power and Sex Among Apes by Frans de Waal. I have said before that I think the social-brain of sociopaths is similar to that of chimps. Now having read that book I am even more convinced.
Chimpanzee Politics is the true life story of the relationships between individuals of the Arnhem Chimp Colony. Scientists carefully observed, photographed, filmed and recorded every interaction between troop members over several years. I don’t want to give away the story, because it is shocking, and you should read it for yourself. The chimps’ story is presented as a very readable narrative that brings to life all of their individual personalities.
I want to outline here the major findings that help us to understand ourselves and sociopaths.
1) Chimpanzees practice deception extensively. Take this example given on page 36:
Dandy is the youngest and lowest ranking of the four grown males. The other three, and in particular the alpha male, do not tolerate any sexual intercourse between Dandy and the adult females. Nevertheless, every now and again he does succeed in mating with them after having made a “date.” When this happens Dandy and the female pretend to be walking in the same direction by chance, and if all goes well they meet behind a few tree trunks. These dates take place after the exchange of a few glances and in some case a brief nudge.
This kind of mating is frequently associated with signal suppression and concealment. ..Dandy and a female were courting each other surreptitiously. Dandy began to make advances to the female, while at the same time restlessly looking around to see if any of the other males were watching. Male chimpanzees start their advances by sitting with their legs wide apart revealing their erection. Precisely at the point when Dandy was exhibiting his sexual urge in this way Luit, one of the older males, unexpectedly came around the corner. Dandy immediately dropped his hands over his penis concealing it from view.
2) Chimpanzees manipulate and instigate.
3) Chimpanzees fake emotions to get attention and influence others.
4) Chimpanzees hurt one another and only care about the hurt because of what others will think. There is an awareness that hurting is wrong and those who hurt are punished, but they do not appear to care unless someone else sees it.
5) A male chimpanzee will use a “friend” to form a coalition to achieve his aims, then soon after turn on the friend. Male chimps have no problem killing their “friends.”
6) Most interestingly, chimpanzees remember each other and recognize individuals but only females take that a step further and maintain a slightly loyal relationship with another individual. All of the chimps’ loyalties are temporary. Their loyalties are based on exchange. Touch which feels good, sex, food and protection are part of the exchange. They have incredible memories for who they have done favors for, and who has done favors for them. The pleasure they receive due to another’s actions is not lasting and if a coalition is to be maintained, it has to be continually reinforced, with touch, food, sex or some other favor.
7) For chimps, affectionate touching is part of dominance coalition development as opposed to meaningful friendship. In other words, my dog comes to get a caress and kiss me because I am special and he loves me. A chimp engages in the same behavior because he knows it will get him something.
I am very interested in the idea that affection and touching can be part of either love or power motives in humans. It is my observation that many of the worst sociopaths/psychopaths enjoy giving and receiving a touch and a hug. If they are incapable of love how can this be? Is it really all fake? I do not think so. I wrote one of the country’s leading chimpanzee experts about the idea that touching is linked to dominance and power motivation. This is what he replied:
Your recent email was very interesting. Indeed there has been a considerable amount of research on grooming in chimpanzees and it appears that much of male grooming does conform to your hypothesis about grooming being related to dominance status. The grooming is clearly related to achieving or maintaining status and usually does not indicate anything close to affection.
A related phenomenon is the role of grooming in all male patrols in wild chimpanzees. Chimpanzees live in large groups that are highly territorial. All male coalitions sometime form and engage intense grooming among themselves. They proceed in single file towards the territorial boundary, remaining uncharacteristically silent (as if on radio silence). If they then encounter a single male from the adjoining troop they attack him usually killing or severely injuring him. Females or infants from the adjoining population are also sometimes killed.
So grooming in the first case is simply part of a political strategy involving status. In the second case, it seems to solidify group coherence to achieve a rather nasty result.
I offer you this to help you in your recovery: next time you are daydreaming of that wonderful touch from the sociopath you loved, picture the person with the face of a chimp! Get it through your head, the touch was not about love. It was about power and control over you. Like chimps, sociopaths can only retain the pleasure of what you bring them for a short time. The minute you no longer serve a purpose you risk being discarded or worse.
Now go back to imagining a world consumed with deception, fake emotion, manipulation, power and violence. That is the world of the chimpanzee NOT the world of homo sapiens. The majority of our species has the capacity for bonds of affection. Furthermore, for many, many people, real affection and genuine caring even extends to strangers. After reading deWaal’s account, I feel very optimistic about us.
DeWaal drew some interesting conclusions of his own:
Politicians, for example, are vociferous about their ideas and promises but are careful not to disclose personal aspirations for power. This is not meant to be a reproach, because after all everyone plays the same game. I would go further and say that we are largely unaware that we are playing a game and hide our motives not only from others but also underestimate the immense effect they have on our own behavior. Chimpanzees, on the other hand are quite blatant about their “baser” motives. Their interest in power is not greater than that of humanity; it is just more obvious”¦Humans should regard it as an honor to be classified as political animals.
I agree that humans as a species are preoccupied with power and that the preoccupation is no less than that of the chimpanzee. However, balancing that power motive for most of us is an equally strong love motive. The love motive, not our political cunning is our true claim to greatness and honor. Thankfully, for humans, unbalanced power motives, egocentricity and the incapacity for love constitute a disorder and not our way of life.
Thanks for the post link James. Here is the quote from that article thatt I feel is the “danger” for forums, particular forums like Lovefraud:
“These people are often the starting point of cliques because they can gather a group of yes-people around them in no time.”
A bunch of “Yes” people (often based on non-factual info or stats, but just on “opinions” of behavior that could easily apply to most of the population and has absolutely nothing to do with sociopathy (although a particular sociopath might engage in that behavior as does alot of normal people), and who are intolerant of other opinons that differ, or are even intolerant of those who might post fact based statistics if it is contrary to something they believe. Personally, I would rather see differing opinons and some debate and certainly more fact or research based info than a bunch of “yes” oriented responses to everything..
Jen2008
“A bunch of “Yes” people (often based on non-factual info ”
Which is why LF is special for here you will not find “yes” people and these same people do in fact “base” personal experiences with past Losers/abusers. Another special quality here is there is little and/or no real debating, only ambitious discussions when understanding the theme here at LF.
lol, we were posting over each other, James. On sociopathic.net, it took me the longest time before I ever got up the nerve to enter the site. Just the opening page looked spooky to me!
At the time I first ran across the site, there was actually a “victim’s forum” also on the site. It is no longer there, or it wasn’t last time I checked the site.
Jen2008
lol, got to love those emotional triggers lol 🙂
Not really knowing this site I haven’t have the chance to visit some of the threads but am sorry to hear about the “victim’s forum’ being shut down. But thanks for the infor!
James said:
“Which is why LF is special for here you will not find “yes” people and these same people do in fact “base” personal experiences with past Losers/abusers. Another special quality here is there is little and/or no real debating, only ambitious discussions when understanding the theme here at LF”
Well, I have to say I agree and disagree. I do find face based personal info and experience posted on the board when it comes to losers/abusers, unfortunately alot fo the behavior is attributed to sociopathy, when I feel it is NOT necessarily anywhere close to sociopathic based on information and research I have read. (yet “he sleeps alot” or he “talks alot on the phone” and that sort of thing, which is sometimes presented as if it is a FACT of sociopathy when those things can also apply to a vast amount of the population who is NOT sociopathic).
I do find Lovefraud to be the best forum I have found because of the articles written by the professionals, and also because it gives the readers a voice to get out their “story” or “concerns” and get feedback and advice.
But with that said, in the victim comments, I do find alot of “yes” posts and also alot of posts where followers will jump on the bandwagon and condone almost any type of “horrendous” behavior coming from a victim as long as it is done to “a supposed sociopath” and “done in the name of victimhood”. Fortunately, most victims do seem to be genuinely nice, but there has been a few that have crossed these pages that frankly I found myself thinking I would rather have a tangle with their sociopath than with THEM.
BTW, I also ENJOYED path (what ever his screen name was-I forgot) who posted some FACT BASED sexual info, and frankly I was at a loss as to why so many members jumped all over him accusing him of being a socio and was so nasty to him for his posts and opinons, while at the same time talking about how “nice” we are and how we are all free to give our opinons. Quite the double standard, not to mention cliquish mentality when it came to handling THAT dude!
Maybe I missed something, but I did not find him to be particularly insulting to anyone, although he did disagree on occasion, but I found plenty of Lovefrauders downright NASTY in their responses to him.
Jen2008
Yes another good element here at LF. The right to agree or disagree. And yes for me this site has been great for information and personal support by so many wonderful members.
Jen2008, I think this is an interesting perspective regarding Passing Through’s posts and readers’ responses. Thank you for shring your observation. Very enlightening to me.
Personally, I certainly hope I wasn’t “nastY” to him and I certainly never questioned his factual statistics but my overall reaction caused one of my first PTSD of a psychological nature. I’m recovered today but it was scary.
For me, it wasn’t the topic or the content that bothered me but his tone and attitude (he’s right and everyone else wrong) and twisting others’ comments from what they obviously (to me) meant that triggered me. I felt like I was “listening” to my disordered EX! It was the first time since being “out” that I have had such an unexpected flashback. It was painful!
This morning I read the definition of a troll. I wonder if he could have been one of those, rather than a socio? He did upset quite a few posters — who were trying (IMHO) to discuss with him.
One other insight I had was that perhaps he just didn’t analyze his audience (wounded souls) before posting. His expertise is the scientific community, he said.
I am a former debater. His “rules” were certainly different than the ones I was taught — in the academic field.
Anyway, I don’t like to label (I thought he had labeled himself) but in my introspection of the matter last night, I might “label” him a narcissist (or having narcissist traits) I think.
I hope I have been able to describe my perspective of the interchanges adequately. I find it so interesting that perceptions can be so different (i.e. yours and mine). Reminds me of the 3 blind men and the elephant example. I love that kind of reminder.
Thanks again, Jen2008!
Jen2008,
Thank you for your comments. I have been thinking (at work) about your encounter with the Nurse psychopath in one of these sites. I think that only proves that they have control over who and what they are and are able to choose to act normal. If this person cannot stop her thoughts about killing, she can successfully stop her impulses about actually committing the murders. Sounds like whatever the reason, she’s able to live a “normal” lifestyle. We can’t blame someone with no feelings, I think. How would the develop them? it’s like blaming someone for being color blind. Now, if the color blind person lies and becomes a pilot eventually, this person endangers the whole plane full of passengers. That’s psychopathic. So, anyway, how can we MAKE our P/S act in a “Normal” way, even IF they lack feelings and remorse? Your post gave an inkling of hope, not that they would choose to admit to anything being wrong, but that the society may make them realize that absence of bad behavior leads to more satisfaction than the other way ( I guess, I am a dreamer).
I also read your comment about the Ps and how some describe behaviors that could be conducted by non-psychopaths. I think the “cold stare” is unforgettable to anyone who saw the creature with the mask OFF. I think Once you see that in-human soulless face, one is unable to forget the terror and sadness. At least this was my experience and that of my children.
This is a very old discussion amongst anthropologists, are
we more like the chimps? or like the gorilla? Both apes,
as are we, the chimps are violent, petty, manipulative. But
the Gorilla are only violent when necessary or when provoked
and for all their enormous size they are gentle and loving
with each other. Is is population? for chimps live in large
groups whereas gorillas live in smaller groups. Its a very
old question. One has but to read the newspaper on any given
day to see whom we most resemble in our treatment of each
other, in our politics, in our schools, even between tribes and
nations how we senselessly wage war.
Is it intelligence? temperament? genetic coding and instinct?
Its an old question. But I think that considering that man is
supposed to be the more intelligent of the apes, perhaps it
is a choice we have an opportunity to make. To emulate the
Chimp as we do now? or strive to emulate the Gorilla?
A more interesting question though might be this:
Is the Chimp at one end of the evolutionary process and the
Gorilla at the other? and if so, are we DEVOLVING?
The answer to that question might be evidenced in the number
of sociopaths/chimps we seem to be creating as a society.
I hiked from the highest point of the amazon, down into the jungles, in ecuador. We noticed that the monkeys dominated in their own territories. They were violent towards one another and were verbally (but not physically-which I’ve always wondered about) abusive and threatening towards us-a group of 7 men and women. As long as we kept going at a steady pace, eyes ahead and not on them, they continued with the same behavior. They followed us to a point and stopped, watch us in silence as we moved out of their territory. The abrupt silence was creepy. This happened 2 times in 2 different sections, identical behavior.
I’ve always read that mother monkeys are loving to their young and bond with them tightly. This is where I see similarities between them and us, so to speak. Its the type of bonding that makes the difference. The chimp babies are trained from birth, beginning with the initial bonding, to kill or be killed, how to stay alive with no limitations. Take that to the human species and the types of bonding that human babies have had to undergo. If the mother was emotionally/ mentally ill, the bonding would be like that of the monkey. Out of this comes the sociopaths with no limitations. The rest, who are not sociopaths, show a large percentage of becoming the victims of sociopaths. In the monkey herd, victims are attacked at will, have a high mortality rate. Human victims can eventually heal. Lead productive and content lifestyles. Those who have a well defined conscious have the ability to make good choices. I think it means we are more highly evolved than the chimp. I have to believe this.