The day after Christmas, I got a lesson in respecting the elements. It was about 35°F, not really that cold, but there was quite a wind chill. The kids and I went to the beach to run the dog on the sand at about 3:30 in the afternoon. We got back to the van at about 5 to discover that good old Mom had lost her keys. (Actually, a prior foster dog had chewed a hole in my jacket pocket and the keys fell out.) I ended up calling a taxi, but we waited in the elements for at least an hour total.
We were all properly dressed with boots, hats, gloves and heavy jackets. In spite of being prepared, we were chilled to the bone when we finally got home. I said to my daughter, “I can see how easy it is to freeze to death in the cold, and why people die when they get stuck in the snow.”
I’m sure most people who live in places where it gets dangerously cold have their own stories to tell. That is why it is so tragic and unbelievable that an Idaho father “allowed” his 11 year old daughter and 12 year old son to attempt to walk 10 miles in the snow Christmas day after their vehicle got stuck.
Temperatures ranged from -5 to 27°F when the two set out from the disabled vehicle. According to the Associated Press, the children were living with their father Robert Aragon and were being driven to visit their mother JoLeta Jenks. “After the sedan got caught in the snow, authorities allege Aragon let the children out to walk to their mother’s house while he and his cousin Kenneth Quintana, 29, stayed behind to free the car. (They freed the car and went home rather than driving to make sure the kids made it.) Jenks said she eventually called Aragon because she was concerned after no one arrived at her home on Thursday.
Aragon had driven back to his hometown of Jerome after letting the kids out to walk to her house, Jenks said.
“I could not believe it,” she said.”
The 12 year old boy was found 4 ½ miles away, delusional from hypothermia. His sister was not so lucky, she was found dead 2 ½ miles away. Fleming (the local Sheriff) said she was wearing only a brown down coat, black shirt, pink pajama pants and tan snowboots.
He reportedly commented, “I’ve never seen anything like this, it was a 10-mile walk, the way they were dressed, it’s just all mind-boggling.”
Incidents like this one are the answer to the “So what?” question. What’s the “So what?” question? It is the response judges and attorneys have to the finding that a parent is a sociopath or has psychopathic personality traits. So What?
| DSM IV Sociopathy (Antisocial Personality Disorder) |
| 5. Reckless disregard for safety of self or others. 6. Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations. |
| PCL-R Psychopathy |
| 10. Poor behavioral controls 13. Lack of realistic, long-term goals 15. Irresponsibility 16. Failure to accept responsibility for actions 17. Many short term marital relationships |
The table above shows that irresponsibility and recklessness are part of sociopathy as defined by the psychiatry’s DSM and psychopathy as defined by the PCL-R.
Why are sociopaths so consistently reckless and irresponsible? These traits get us to the core of the disorder. At the core of the disorder is poor impulse control. What that means is that if there is a situation where the sociopath has to balance pleasure and risk, the sociopath will always choose pleasure over managing risk. Sociopaths are unable to feel fear or concern for consequences during the time they are focused on immediate pleasure or comfort.
In situations like the father and the kids in the snow, the pull to get the car out and go home is stronger than any concern for the kids. While in pursuit of a goal involving pleasure, thoughts of risk or danger simply are not there. So why would a sociopath drive to go find the kids when he can go home and be warm?
Also sociopaths are unable to love so they lack working empathy. Thoughts and feelings of another’s physical suffering simply do not register on the radar. Out of sight, out of mind defines sociopaths and their relationships. The minute the kids set out, they are gone.
Sociopaths also lack moral reasoning ability. That means they are unable to detect and interpret situations that have moral implications. The moral implications of parental responsibility do not register at the time life and death decisions have to be made.
There is not much information regarding Aragon’s psychopathic personality traits. But he does have two drug convictions and often drug abuse/addiction causes these personality traits. I am sure we will learn more about this tragic story over the next few months.
Sadly, most people do not understand sociopathy and how it is disabling for a parent. To expect a sociopath to execute sound judgment or be a protective parent when forced to choose between his pleasure and his child’s pain is like expecting a mentally retarded person to do calculus.
One of our Lovefraud readers, Rune sent me these comments to this story as posted on AOL.
Nanamummy
05:41 AMJan 02 2009
If this man is such a criminal…why did he have custody of the children? Yes, he made a decision which will haunt him for life…..what’s to be gained by putting him in jail for life? Over zealous authorities and a useless justice system…..this case really depresses me.
JAKVINOCUR
04:39 AMJan 02 2009
so we are now putting fathers in jail for stuff like this. seriously whether they went walking or not they would have still needed to be in the snow. the father was only doing what he thought was best. if he was such a bad father than why does he have custody of them over the mother. yes it was a bad judgement on his part but dont you think he has been punished enough by losing his daughter. we will punish people for [heinous] crimes but we still cannot find osama bin laden or even catch murderers here or sex offenders. wheter what he did or not is irrelvent he lost his daughter let him go find peace in his heart. if god can forgive him why cant we. stupid to let this man go to prison.
Keshet333
11:55 PMJan 02 2009
This is a very unfortunate accident. The fact that the man had custody of the children tells me that he was a good father. In situations such as these, decision making is sometimes not the best. This man will be haunted by this for the rest of his life. They should drop all charges. Isn’t he paying enough for his bad judgment?
Russiawthluv
06:08 PMJan 01 2009
Obviously the man did NOT mean to harm his children. His son and daughter lived with him. He took care of their basic, daily needs. Why would he intentionally bring harm to either child when he has taken care of them so well for their entire lives? There’s no doubt in my mind he made an extremely poor decision. Then again, these two kids were more than likely used to snow, rain and other extreme weather, being that they grew up in that climate. The way he is portrayed by the media is simply unacceptable! Especially with the eye-catching headline..”MAN ALLOWS HIS CHILDREN TO WALK 10 MLES IN DEEP SNOW. 11 YEAR DAUGHTER DEAD FROM HYPOTHERMIA.” For the most part, even if this man wanted a fair trial….how’s he ever going to get one if slanderous & severely misconstrued statements were already pumped out to the masses? That man is in bitter anguish. It’s a “life sentence” if you ask me for this individual to have to spend the remainder of his life knowing his poor decision resulted in the…
The comments also indicate that people don’t know that sociopaths frequently get custody of children. One cannot assume that the parent who has custody is “providing for them.”
It is time for family courts to learn to assess sociopathy and its meaning for parenting. The very least they could do in the case of two sociopathic parents is to educate them about their defects. At least we should tell them, “Look, you are missing all of your decision making social brain, so don’t put yourself in a situation where you will have to choose between your child’s welfare and your own comfort!”
FYI AOL has a poll, I participated and got the following results:
Poll Results
Do you think a murder charge is warranted in this case?
No 47% 101,555
Yes 31% 66,279
I’m not sure 22% 46,384
Dear Ptsd,
Hope your cleansing goes well and that you start to feel better physically and emotionally as well. I’m on a weight loss diet now, and watching what I eat and all the fiber and fluids making sure I get enough of eveyrthing and eat “healthy” rather than going on a crash diet. Weather is getting better so the exercise will get easier as the weather improves. I’ve got great places to walk, and my caniine companions to go with me.
You are so right, NC is a MUST DO, and that means not only physically but emotionally as well, no checking face book or reading texts or anything else—and no talking to anyone about what he is up to now either. Believe it or not those will really rip the scabs off and open up those wounds too.
Glad you are feeling better! Good luck!
Oxy,
Glad you’re doing much better with acyclovir. I presume it’s a prescription drug. Red wine is the only thing I self medicate with. And yes I do know the dangers of self medication.
I am glad that there is an organization keeping me posted of his jail time. I want to know when he is out even though I’m sure I will eventually know. I am resolved to no contact AND immediately calling the police if he contacts me. They will have his worthless ass back in jail if he does.
I’ve made that mistake so many times which is why the one officer decided to bully me stating that I was just encouraging the XS by being suckered in over and over. I’ve been reading all these posts and the articles and I can’t believe how similar these guys behave. Sleeping outside in freezing temps, kicking them out only to have them pop a window open and jump back in!! That one cracked me up because it is such crazy behaviour that I allowed too!!!
Hey peeples! Just sayin hi… The one thing I love about this site is that even if a story was posted a year ago, people will still be making observations and posting on it.
It’s not as fast as a chat room but that’s fine with me because it takes me a lot of time to absorb things.
This blizzard story I had not heard. Why do people like this even have children? It reminded me of something my mother told me – that when she was 7 or 8 months pregnant with my younger sister, MY FATHER locked her out of the house in the middle of winter. And then how Christian Gerhardstreiter locked the young girl out of her own house because he couldn’t be bothered to get up and let her in. That was a really great acting job, he managed to make him charismatic and creepy at the same time. It makes it abundantly clear that the phrase “left out in the cold” is not just a figure of speech! I used to go surfing in the middle of winter (in a wetsuit- emphasis on “wet”) but nowadays I can’t even take a cold draft or too much air-conditioning!
I was glad to see that they charged the kids’ uncle as well as the father. That is crazy behavior, and I don’t see any reason it would not be FIRST DEGREE MURDER. If you push someone out of a boat in the middle of the ocean, I think you would know what would happen, even as you sail away and say “Well, he was treading water last time I saw him!! I even left him directions to the nearest island – because I am a responsible person! I never expected him to drown. So sorry to hear that!” Please, enough ridiculous fake apologies!
How would 2 young children even know which direction to go in? Especially if they never did it before. And how long would it actually take for children to walk 10 miles, snowstorm or not? If they walked a mile every 30 minutes it would take them 5 HOURS! Indefensible! Oxy, I think your little “scenario” hit me right away as sounding true to life. You must be psychic:
—————
“I can only imagine the man’s rage when he was having to take the kids to his X’s and got stuck, so he was probably screaming and ranting about how much trouble he had gone to and now look at the situation and it was all the kids’ faults and he wasn’t even going to take them to their mothers after all even when he got the car out. So the kids, wanting to see their mom probably volunteered to walk and he just screamed at them, “Okay, go ahead!”
—————
Those kids probably left because they wanted, on some level, to just get the hell away from these people. They would rather walk ten miles in a blinding snowstorm than stay there with their abusive father. I mean, he already had them trained! How many kids when told to do this, or given a choice, would unquestionably obey? Most children would cry and get upset and regress a little if told they should do something so uncomfortable, scary, and dangerous – that is what struck me about this story – they were more afraid of THEIR FATHER than of the blizzard conditions. I know as a child I would do almost anything to keep from making my mother angry, even deny my own comfort, needs and emotions. After all, wasn’t it my job to make sure SHE was comfortable at all times?
Hey ptsd – you sound like a pretty cool person. I also listen to a lot of music, and have been known to be “dancin’ with myself!” when nobody’s looking! It’s the one sure-fire thing that can boost my mood and rise above what ever shithole I happen to be standing in.
I am pretty new here (4 months) and it takes time to get the feel of the community. This is a place where people DO want to hear the ugly truth, spare no details. Your truth, we learn. I can see where people here might be a bit skittish if someone new comes in but is not open to the process, because this is probably the only place where we can present and share whatever godawful secrets we have been keeping. We can tell it like it is, and be supportive to each other. I actually like having the time to digest the information, articles and comments, because the information here is like a great library of the layers within the human soul – from the blackest black to the white-heat light of the hottest star. It has for me started a spiritual cleansing, and has helped me make some decisions that have been a long time coming.
Oxy, you rule, and I would just say please give me the skillet any time you may think it’s needed! And you always have an amazing story to tell – are you hiding superwoman beneath your unassuming farm-girl overhauls?? What was up with that story about the cows hazing one of their group? I would never think that cows would do something so violent, even if it was to give a smackdown to an unruly herd member.
I haven’t been posting much in the last few weeks because I am also doing a lot of reading – the self-help books and psych stuff on this and other websites.
In mid-january I went NC with my mother. It wasn’t really something I had planned on doing, because it would completely leave me with no contact with the rest of my family. But when that lightbulb goes off in your head, you can’t turn away from it. It’s like OXY seeing the devastating effect of car crashes – one you’ve see that, you can never UNSEE it. But you can make the decision not to see any more accidents. I started to see things much more objectively than ever, even though I was in one of the worst depressions I ever had. I got to the point where I was writing my goodbye letter in my head, because I felt so hopeless about everything.
My mother is very narcissisitic and can be full of a lot of venom and rage, although 99% of the time she will shower you with love and praise or make your favorite meal or whatever she does to suck you in. But for the last few months I have been just really paying attention to some of the things that have come out of her mouth, and it’s pretty shocking. She’s very manipulative and passive-aggressive, and takes no responsibility for anything.
When you grow up in a dysfunctional environment, that’s what you think is normal. It has actually surprised me at every turn – like how the hell did I not know how abusive she was? When I first went to a therapist 20 years ago, I told her a few stories about nasty things my mother had done, and she told me “You were very neglected as a child.”
This was surprising to me – can you imagine? I was 33 years old and had no clue. I’m a smart person, but my mother manipulated me to the point where I just thought she was great!
She’s like a 3-year-old child, she has temper tantrums to get her way, and controls you with anger or fake nurturing. It’s very confusing growing up in an environment like that.
I think the turning point for me was reading Dr. Becker’s blog about “the silent treatment.” I read that and thought – holy crap, does he know my mother??? It totally freaked me out. I did not return her phone calls or speak to her for a couple of weeks, and got an angry message “This silent treatment you’re giving me is just not cutting it!” It’s all about her, all the time. She’s not too concerned, just angry because she’s not getting any attention!
When I started to feel better, coming out of the depression, I just realized that I cannot live my life that way. I felt like a 200 ton mountain was off my back. I have FM and my pain level got better! I always made excuses for her and tried to rationalize her behaviour – she had a hard life and got a raw deal etc. But the more I look back and see what her decisions and behavior were over the years, I had two main observations:
1. She is emotionally blind and doesn’t really seem to know right from wrong, in a moral sense. She did what she wanted, she pursued her pleasure at the expense of her children. I cannot ignore that any more because it’s in my face. She likes to pretend that everything is just dandy even if she and everyone else are going to hell in a handbasket. She could turn invalidation into an art form.
2. That she was possibly the shallowest person I ever met.
In our last phone conversation, we discussed the fact that my brother had lied to us and his new GF, hiding the fact that he was still married to the woman we thought was his EX-wife 3 years ago. The GF found out accidentally because the ex/wife (most definitely a P) stalked her on Facebook and let her have it. I said to my mother, “You know the fact that not only did he lie, but expected us not to tell the new GF when we found out – that makes me really angry, because we were supposed to be a party to this lie (we found out he was still married before his GF did).”
She actually said “Well, it doesn’t make me angry because it’s got nothing to do with me.” ???!!!!??
In other words, she has no problem with shutting her eyes to egregiously immoral behavior, and no problem being party to it, keeping secrets just to save face. I stopped trusting her that day, as I have already stopped trusting the rest of my family. I began to see the root of so much dysfunctional behavior in my siblings. I began to realize that going NC with these people would be no great loss.
Why on earth would I waste any of my precious time with people who are abusive, invalidating, untrustworthy, and mean???
I decided it was time for me to get a life.
Dear 7steps,
WOW! GF!!!! Your post said a mouth full! Yep, going NC with them somehow at first seems totally impossible, or at least it did to me, and sounds like to you too, but then as the CHAOS becomes more clear and we start getting out of the FOG we realize that these have never been healthy or uplifting or validating relationships build on mutual respect. We realize that not only do they not respect us or validate us, they actively DIS-RESPECT us and invalidate our feelings. Yea, you are right, WE NEED THIS WHY?
I’m glad that you have broken free of this toxic relationship(s) and that you are feeling better as a result.
DNA does NOT a family make! MUTUAL Love, respect and kindness is what makes a family! Congratulations and TOWANDA!!!! ((((hugs)))))
my voice is small today OX,
As all of the weight of the past pulls through the healing from the SPATH, I turn and look and wonder, how with the sincerest and fiercest love for my son, I don’t look as awful to him for not having stood up sooner to his father, for having let my self get caught in really hard times and now this.
When we allow ourselves to be treated by these disordered people what it turns us into is not pretty. Others see it even when we don’t understand it and while we writhe and thrash to survive, it has its effects on other relationships.
Until WE change, how can it not be possible that all of these things reflect on us who were willing to allow it to be no matter how innocent the attempts to cope and function in that chaos were.
This is the effect that is driving me UP the wall!
The not so great stuff that went on for me as a kid caused me to adapt to life in ways that just opened the door for these creeps. And then I got twisted into some really awful struggles to survive emotionally up to and including this last disaster.
I think this is a theme we hear over and over here.
Is there a blog site for this stuff that would be approriate for our teens?
Why wouldn’t we want our chiildren to learn the way we are here at LF, to feel the support etc?
Well, it might need to be something different than exactly this. But if anyone agrees, I’d be up for making it happen. I’m just not sure what IT would have to be.
Oh Oxy!
When I looked down and saw your post I swear I started to cry! You are now an honorary member of my new non-dna family!
When I did not return my mother’s phone calls she called a friend of mine WHO LET HET HAVE IT! She said “How can you go away and leave your daughter alone on Christmas Day?”
You have no idea how sick she’s been! I’ve never seen her like this!”
I was actually very touched that my friend stood up for me, because I hadn’t told her anything about what was going on.
She knew how horrendously depressed I was. My mother only lives about 6 miles away. If your child was ill or something was going on wouldn’t you GO TO THEIR HOME TO CHECK ON THEM???
Instead I got angry messages. I realize my whole life I have expected people to be angry with me for the stupidest reasons. And most of the time they don’t get angry. When I was a kid if she was angry with any of us she would refuse to look at you or speak to you, meanwhile going through the house slamming doors. To this day I have a startle response every time I hear a door slam or suddenly open.
Oh god I am beyond exhausted. This last 2 months have just taken EVERYTHING out of me…
Without LF I could never have done this. I realize that their are people who care about me and I should spend my time with people who are supportive and want the best for me. I keep waiting for the guilt trip to come slamming down on me, but it actually came down to my survival – literally!
When it came right down to it, it was me or her. I have always sacrificed my own well-being to help others who may or may not deserve it. This came down as actually something I had to do for my own self-preservation,
I still worry about being judged as a person who abandons her mother, because she’s 77 years old and the rest of my siblings live out of state. You know – she’s your mother and the only one you’ll ever have and she won’t be around forever. I’m afraid people will judge me harshly for cutting contactwith her. But I am done.
I need about a thousand year long nap!
Dear 7Steps,
Well Join the crowd, sweetie! YEP, my “poor pitiful sweet, kind and caring Christian” (NOT!!) egg donor will be 81 come this spring. I am not only her oldest child, I am HER ONLY CHILD, and I am sure the community has heard an EAR FULL–she sends this crap out by her “maid” who is a DUMB hateful spiteful witch who has a “master’s degree” and the only job she can get is cleaning my egg donor’s toilet for 7$ an hour or driving her around so she can get the gossip scoop about how I am OUT TO GET MY MAMMY’S MONEY! Well, you know, funny thing is I would rather live in a tent and eat out of a McDona’d’s dumpster than take a dollar from her or be in any way beholden to her for ANYTHING.
People can believe what makes them feel good, most of the people who klnow us very well at all know about the 18 months I took care of my step dad for 18 months almost 24/7 (very willingly) and also the egg donor for most of that time as well, so the rest of them can say and believe what they want; if they are gossipiing about me, they are leaving some other poor soul alone!
Just because your egg donor gave birth to you and contributed her DNA to you does not mean that you are supposed to take any chit that she wants to give you, or to be disrespected and verbally or emotionally abused. It isn’t likely that she is going to change now any more than mine is.
Funny thing is, you mentioning about being sick and no one checking on you. It is odd that I had “forgotten” about some of the devalues-and-discards and “not speaking” to me that my egg donor had done to me to punish me, and once we lived in a small town (about 3,500 people) and I was sick’er’n a dog, and both my kids were and egg donor wasn’t talking to me. I had the flu, and both kids sick, I couldn’t even climb the stairs to the bedroom, was on the couch, and had to call an elderly aunt to come get me some groceries and bring them and set them on the porch (rather than have her come in and take a chance on catching flu)
Looking back now, after playing the game of “let’s pretend none of this happened” for so long, and remembering these episodes that I had BURIED like they DIDN’T happen, is in retrospect, almost FUNNY that I actually did PRETEND well enough that I didn’t consciously recall most of those episodes until recently.
I’ve gotten really PICKY though about who I give a rat’s behind what they think about me. “Judge me?” WHO has the RIGHT to “judge me” for how I treat my egg donor or don’t treat her for that matter.
I’m fortunate that my egg donor canceled my Power of Attorney over any of her business or medical care. So, you know, if I don’t have any legal authority to care for her, I also don’t have any RESPONSIBILITY TO EITHER. As far as you are cooncerned, maybe the REASON the sibs moved off was to get away from “mommie dearest” and to leave her to you, like a WHITE ELEPHANT.
As far as I am concerned when I turned 18 she no longer had any legal responsibility toward me, and the day she tried to punish me by taking awayy my POA, and giving it to my son C and his P-then-wife, and giving money to the dupes and Ps, well, you know, that was the greatest gift she ever gave me, but it sure as hell backfired on her.
I will never forget that SMUG LOOK, that self righteous look, when she had everyone eating out of her hand (she thought) and didn’t “need” me any more, then BAM!!! It all fell apart and she was BETRAYED, just like I had told her she would be.
Then she told me, said it OUT LOUD, and it ecohed like the “tolling bell”—“let’s just pretend none of this happened and start over again.” That was when it CLICKED FOR ME. I knew we had always DONE that, but when she VERBALIZED IT it was like the light went on.
To this day, I think she thinks I am just doing this NC for some period of time to punish her, because that is what she has always done to ME, and she would expect at some point that I will come back and either Apologize to HER, or I will come back “pretending it never happened.” I can’t do that any more.
I guess I am like the woman who caught her husband cheating for the 100th time, and ALL AT ONCE, I AM DONE. Instant OFF switch, no way to get it back on. Just as you said, 7 Steps, “I am done.” Sure, at the time it HURT, but no now. Sure, I wish I had a great mom that I could be proud of or that was proud of me. I don’t have. I got over it. Sometimes life sucks! Life ain’t fair, but you know, I did ahve a wonderful “daddy” though he was not my DNA and he loved me, and he was proud of me, and I have some wonderful memories of that relationship. And if there is a question I wonder “what I should do” all I have to say to myself to get the answer is “What would Daddy have done?” I KNOW HOW Daddy felt about the P-son of mine, the last reference he made to him was when P-son wrote him a lying letter blaming the theft of Daddy’s gun (that P-son stole) on his dead friend. Daddy read the letter, made a SPITTING SOUND and threw it on the ground like trash. I wish I had paid more attention to what Daddy said when he was here, but at least I can look back and realize he knew what was going on. He just didn’t BOINK me over the head with it. I wish I had, but probably wouldn’t have listened either. LOL But I’m listening now, Daddy! Thanks! LOL
Well, 7 Steps, I’m happy for you that you have finally realized that DNA isn’t what makes a family, and yes, there are some great NON-DNA “family members” here at LF, and if it wasn’t for them I wouldn’t be where I am today in my healing path! They have held my hand, cheered me on, and kept me from feeling ENTIRELY ALONE at times.
Maybe one day Donna will have a big LF convention and we can all get together for a biggggggg GROUP HUG!!!!
Dear Silvermoon,
You know, I never thought about a “teeanged version” of LF. There is probably a real need for that.
I know that Donna puts in a LOT of time reading here and monitoring what goes on and to keep “peace” when a troll comes by and starts creating chaos. Fortunately it doesn’t happen very often here, and when it does, she puts a STOP to it. I imagine it would be almost a 24/7 job of monitoring a teenblog though.
Actually, I think you might contact Donna and/or Dr. Leedom and see about their suggestions (you can find their direct e mail addresses in the author section) I think that there might be a group of folks that would contribute to such a group. I can think of a couple of people that I know, one being a therapist. I think there would have to be some reliable monitors for such a site.
I dson’t have the computer skills to set up a site, but would help with monitoring a site and there are probably others here who would help as well. Donna has the experience so she would be a great resource I think, so ask her and Dr. Leedom has a site and others, so that might be a great way to get one started. At the very least it is an idea. ((((Hugs))))
Dearest Oxy, So glad our back! I was the same I kinda dropped out fora little while as I was getting”troll vibes” and thought Id give myselfa bit of space. Hows your diet going? Like you, Im more adopting a better diet choice, more salads, salmon and other fish,less carbs, wholegrain breads [but less of it} berry fruits, etc. I feel great and have lost 2 Ks!{so far.]
Im so grateful to you and lots of others on LF for really switchng on the light i my head, re my abusive ex, and abusive spath kids.For almost 30 years Ive put up with all kinds of S–t, and 26 of these years, since being remarried, Ive turned myself inside out with False guilt that I had to leave their Dad in 1982 . Hell, they were 17 and 19, hardly babies, my older spath daughter left when her youngest was 5, with no apparent guilt whatsoever!Like you did for ages, I kept up the malignant false hope that one day theyd change, love me, be nice to me, say sorry for all the crap behaviour,
HELLO!?? Hasnt happened yet!Never will!
And now that David and I are being treated with love, kindness and respect by our new Iranian “kids” we see just what weve been missing by contrast. YOUR RIGHT, family are those who treat you with love, caring and respect, nothing to do with DNA! We are SO brainwashed that as a Mother we have to endlessly forgive, put up with endless crap from our spath kids,{before we even knew they WERE spaths!}Im STILL having to deal with the monkey on my shoulder saying,”Call yourself a Mother? Dont you worry about your daughter? ”
hell, all her messes, both financial and other , she got HERSELF into with no help! I have baled her out to the tune of over $10,000 over the last few years, NO MORE!!
Like you with your second son,{the one who lied to you} I feel Ive been kidding myself re my SIL. he is irresponsible, {not as bad as her tho} he lies, he is undependable,-was supposed to bring the kids over Xmas or N.Year, didnt happen. What cut me to the quick was to discover he and the kids plus his new girlfriend were 10 minutes a way from out place on N.Years eve, and didnt even ring us up, much less call to see us/Ive seen them twice since 8th Dec.,2008.I dont think hesa spath, but I do think he is narcissistic,and weak, and he is an ex pot smoker. I do still get the odd twinge of guilt re my older spath D, but when it happens, I remind myself of some of the cruel, hateful andhurtful things she has done to me,{none of which she acknowledges ever happened, by the way, more gaslighting}. I didnt even KNOW what gaslighting was till I found LF. talk about light bulbs going off!I know that for my menatl, emotional and financial well-being, I CANNOT afford to speak to her or see her again, I am so scared of being sucked in to enabling her again.I do still worry what will become of her in 5 or so years, when her looks have started to fade, and shes finally pissed off all her good friends who got sick of being used. HEY, not my problem any more!!
What Im finding re peeling layers of the onion of awareness of what Ive ALLOWED them to do to me all these years, is that under every layer of onion is a fat layer of fresh pain! To be worked thru again! No short cuts!!Thanks again Oxy, you are a beacon of light, sanity, refreshing honesty, toughness, and rare courage!! TOWANDA to you gal!Love, and {{HUGS!!}} Gem.XX
Dear Gem,
Thank you sweetie!
Well, my diet is going well. I actually haven’t weighed, but I know I am doing great cause I can tell by the FIT of my clothes. I’m going to weigh once a week now and just Keep on with the good diet!
Today was cloudy but lovely and I got outside and “detailed” the inside of my truck (cleaned and polished) no sense washing the outside yet, wiill just get rain tomorrow I think or maybe tonight. Ah, the joys of living on an unpaved road! But at least there isn’t any DUST!
Son D got a call from his younger bio-sister today and he just lit up. She is in Rwanda doing a “year abroad” study and just seeing the world and having a great time. It was odd, as I listened to him talk to her on the telephone, I could hear the LOVE in his voice. From the words of the conversation I couldn’t even tell what it was about but I could HEAR THE LOVE just in the tone of the voice!
He and I talked about that after the call finished and you know, I got to thinking about that TONE OF VOICE, that LOVEVOICE, and you know if someone doesn’t talk to you in a way that demonstates that LOVE in the way they talk to you, what’ya need it for?
Oh, sure, everyone gets cranky now and then (yes, even perfect me! LOL) and sometimes even ANGRY, but if you are talking to someone you LOVE, even if you are as ANGRY as a “mad hornet” you do NOT talk to someone you love like they are some stray dog that just tore into your garbage for the 10th time and scattered it up and down the street!
You do not throw things at them, you do not punch them, you do not tell them you hate them, you still treat them with respect.
So what is that old saying, about if “someone tells you what they think of you, (by how they treat you) BELIEVE THEM!”
I realize it has been a long time coming for both of us Gem, but we are on the right track now. The psychopath-x-son just turned 39 this week, so my kiddies are not much younger than yours. Middle aged men, actually! Giving me trouble since he was 15-16 and Felonies since he was 17, and murder by the time he was 20. There’s an old country and western song called “Mama Tried” and it goes “I turned 21 in prison doing life without parole, but mama tried to raise me better…..” and I know Gem that you and I both tried to “raise’em better” than what they turned out to be.
I’m sorry your SIL has disappointed you about seeing your GCs too. Maybe next holiday you can go pick them up and keep them for an over night, or just keep telephoning, and sending cards etc. so they don’t forget you. Actually, there was a time when I LOOKED SO FORWARD to having grandkids, but actually I am glad now that I DON’T HAVE ANY biological ones. My husband’s kids and grandkids (and great grandkids–2) do not physically live close but we FB, talk, and e mail and visit when we can!
I am grateful for my adopted son D, and feel that ,like Job, God has given me “children of the heart” for my old age!
Before my husband died, in the evenings we would sit and talk after dinner, and read or watch a movie, and we would go over the day and activities, and one of the things we enjoyed so very much was to talk about D and how he was BLOSSOMING. My husband was a natural teacher and teaching had always been a part of his love of flying and anything else he did, and D was such a wonderful student, sucking my husband’s brain dry, wanting to learn! It was wonderful for both of them, the teacher who wanted to teach, and the student who wanted to learn.
D used to walk by and giggle at the “old folks holding hands.” Dear Sweet Gem, sit there and hold your David’s hands, and talk about the people who love you and treat you with love! That’s what’s important now. Those other people are gone, it’s time we started focusing more on the people we love than the people who never loved us. ((((Hugs)))))