This article talks about work we do when we are ready to work on clearing the influence of betrayals from our minds and emotional systems. It is about recovering our feelings of safety in the world and moving forward to create better and happier lives. Those of us who are still battling our betrayers, still clarifying our feelings of outrage or still developing our self-defensive skills may feel outraged by the very idea of forgiving. And so they should. Forgiving is something we do “at our leisure,” later when we have the time to think about restoring our emotional systems to a pre-warzone state. Ultimately we want to be positive, creative, optimistic people — without ever forgetting the lessons we learned in our histories. This article is about what we do, when we’re ready to put it all behind us. — Kathy
“Forgiveness is a dangerous passage.” This is a quote from an unknown source on the white board on my office. It’s been there for years and every time I think about cleaning it off, I think “oh not yet.” The temptation to forgive for the wrong reasons is something I don’t want to forget.
In this tenth article of this series on recovering from traumatic relationships, we will discuss the process of forgiving. It is a bridge between the grieving/letting go and the rebuilding phases.
Why bother?
A lot of people have a lot of opinions on forgiveness. Most religious or spiritual disciplines will tell us that forgiving is essential to our spiritual health. On a more mundane level, we may we aware that our friends and supporters are losing patience with our extended healing process, or may be pressuring us to get over it. On a more personal level, we may want to reenter the world without all this emotional baggage that makes us so hyper-conscious of potential threats that we have a hard time seeing or taking advantage of opportunities for good experiences.
In my mind, the only reason to ever consider forgiving is that we want to free out minds of the residue of anger that hangs on after we grieve and let go. There are other benefits we get out of forgiveness, but the first motivation has to be to improve the “quality of life” in our own minds. It’s a matter of our relationship with ourselves.
In addition, I believe there are a few prerequisites to really forgiving anything. The most important of them is that our suffering is fading. (That doesn’t mean that we’re not still dealing with repercussions of some sort, but that the level of pain has diminished to the point where it’s less important than our desire to get over it.)
The other one is that we have the stability and presence of mind to know that we can forgive without getting back into the situation that caused us all this pain in the first place. If we’re still attracted to that situation or others like it, we’re leapfrogging ahead to forgiving before we’ve done the preliminary work of getting angry at our betrayers, developing defensive skills, and facing the fact that there are things we just cannot fix or change.
What is NOT a good reason for forgiving is some sort of social expediency, because we have to deal with our betrayers or with other people who are not sympathetic or pressuring us to get over it. There are other ways to handle that situation.
Here are some of the things we may be thinking as we approach forgiving:
• These angry or frightened feelings don’t have any place in my life anymore. I want to move on.
• I’m ready to find more interests than this bitterness
• I want to clean up my emotional system so I become more positive and optimistic
• I’m starting to remember how I felt before all this happened, and I want to recover some of that joy of life.
• This just isn’t worth the energy I’ve been giving it
But to forgive, we have to overcome one major obstacle. Fear. Forgiving is actually part of overcoming fear. But we have to face it head on too.
Fear and forgiveness
The progress of healing involves us becoming more and more real about what happened and how we feel about it. In anger, we get closer to recognizing our fear, but our reaction is to throw things at it — blame, threats, vengeance, work on fixing things so it never happens again. In grieving and letting go, we accept the specific losses that we have endured. While that is good work, it also clarifies our vulnerability to random events or to specific threats in the world. We may work on accepting that vulnerability, along with our other losses, but it doesn’t change the fact that it exists.
And so now, our increasing awareness of the costs of our vulnerability raises a new issue. How do we live with the fear?
This question makes sense of all we’ve been through to process the trauma. We may have dabbled with fear in our processing. Asking ourselves “what if” this or that. What if no one ever loves me again? What if I am really too stupid to live? But we never sat down to really look it hard in the eye.
Because fear is an extremely uncomfortable emotion. In fact, if we look at all the so-called negative emotions, including shame and guilt, and do enough digging down, we find fear at the bottom of them. Other than love, it is the most fundamental emotion. And it is the antithesis of love or connectedness. We literally can’t feel love and fear at the same time. One will overtake the other.
Fear is designed to stop everything else until it is resolved. It generates the noises of anxiety and need for immediate relief, while blocking or compromising our ability to see into the future, our ability to fully recognize and enjoy what is around us, and our ability to take the normal risks involved in forward movement in our lives. It eats up our energy in a million ways and drives us toward behaviors that are about nothing but self-protection and relief from the mental noise.
This is why facing and acknowledging the fact that we are afraid can be such a powerfully transformative thing, all by itself. It is a form of clearing away all the intermediate structures of trauma-processing and getting down to the center of it in a totally authentic way. So we are no longer lying to ourselves or pretending. So that we are no longer trying to talk ourselves into irrational ideas about being stronger or safer than we are. So that we are finally clear about the fact that the universe whacked us and we don’t know when it will whack us again. It is out of our control.
This is tough stuff, the toughest of the entire grief process, and until we are ready for it, we can’t do it. Our minds won’t let us. We will slip and slide away into denial or bargaining or anger or another round of grieving and letting go, all the things that we know made us feel better than the stage before. And that is fine. Our minds have their own wisdom, and we face this issue when we have the structural underpinning in place to do this. It’s why the healing process is progressive.
But one way or another, when we come to think about forgiving, we’re going to run into this issue. How can I safely forgive if I really don’t know when I’m going to be facing the same thing again, or something worse? Or vice versa, how can I experience my fear if I’m relaxing my angry alert and protection systems by forgiving?
This trauma was nothing compared to the first one
The experience of trauma is built into our emotional histories. In a way, every trauma we experience is a replay of the primal trauma that every child experiences, the transition from life inside the womb to life out of it. It is the fundamental “expulsion from the Garden of Eden” which transfers us from a situation where we are fed, warmed, held, connected to our source to a new situation in which we are separate and dependent for our survival on things that are out of our control.
The developmental activities of the first four years are actually about the child navigating that separation to acquire certain basic intellectual perspectives and emotional skills necessary to healthy personality formation. It is our first experience of trauma processing. It occurs both on a macro level of gradual emotional acceptance of separation from the “source” and on a detail level of dealing with separate events that trigger fear, disappointment and uncertainty. If all goes well, we maintain steady bonds with our caretakers that allow us to ease into independence, self-soothing skills and the beginnings of empathy.
So we “know” what trauma means from a very early age. One way of describing trauma is that it is an unexpected breach of the rules we took for granted. Or the rules we depended on for our survival and sense of security in the world.
A whole series of emotional reactions to this breach are reasonable and normal. All the emotional stages we discuss in trauma processing, as well as others that we have not discussed in depth, such as feelings of betrayal, rejection or shame. If we go back to the nature of the first trauma, it makes sense that we would feel offended. One day our life is one thing; the next thing it’s another. What are we supposed to think? At minimum, it would be reasonable to think we are being unreasonably screwed with.
This brings us back to the primal argument. Because who, ultimately, is screwing with us? To cut a long discussion short, our big argument is not with any one persecutor in this world, not our parents, not our selfish lovers, not with the truck that hit us. It’s with God or the universe, or however we look at the overall intelligence that organizes this place. Because clearly that big intelligence has forgotten that we were previously important enough to have the suite at the center of the universe, and for reasons not made clear, we have been demoted to just one small, helpless life form in this place full things and life forms that clearly do not recognize our centrality.
Welcome to the first time we felt the fear of being vulnerable and alone. And to the basic human challenge of living with those feelings at the same time we experience love, trust, some kind of internal dignity, and the ability to risk moving forward with our lives.
There is no human being who has not been through this. And there is not one of us who doesn’t live with this challenge on a daily basis in some part of our consciousness.
It’s important to know this, because as we move forward with dealing with our own fear, we also know that some people have found ways of managing it more effectively than others.
The cost of doing business.
We have these bodies. They have their own intelligence and they want to survive. Our spirituality has its intelligence. Our intellect has its intelligence. Our emotional system has its intelligence. (See Daniel Goleman’s books on various forms of intelligence for wonderful discussions of this topic.) They are all integrated and mutually supportive, but the body is the instrument and the house where it all plays out, and one of the body’s primary vocabulary words is fear.
We cannot get away from this, but we can decide what we’re going to do about it. And that is where forgiving comes in.
There are a lot of dictionary definitions of forgiving, but for our purposes in this article, we are going to experiment with a new one. That is, making a decision about how much energy we want give to a certain source of fear in our lives.
This is not about minimizing the damage or our struggle to get over it. It is not about condoning other people’s bad behavior or the real dangers we face in the world.
Rather it is about recognizing something about ourselves. We have done all reasonable work to identify the problem, to protect ourselves in the future, to let go of what we have discovered is now gone, and to face our fear. We know what we are afraid of. Now, we consider a decision about reclassifying the issue as something we may or may not run into, something that is (to some degree) out of our control. We begin to consider whether or not we are served by continuing to let fear of this thing drain resources that could be spent on positive forward movement.
Forgiving is not the same as denial, because we make this decision with full awareness of our losses and our future risks. It involves no forgetting. We respect all the information we have gathered, in case we need it again. We respect all the feelings we have gone through, because they are part of the truth of this experience. We just decide to start withdrawing our energy, turning off that faucet, and shifting our attention to other things.
What forgiving is and isn’t
Forgiving is a decision we make and then gradually follow through, adapting that decision to our own comfort level. It is a decision we make from a position of power over the one thing we truly have power over, our own choices. Especially that supreme choice of where we place our attention.
Forgiving is something we do, knowing that we cannot totally control fear, because our bodies have their own agendas and they will generate fear if they feel it is necessary. So it also involves a deal with our bodies that we will listen to their fear, that we will not become airy-fairy pseudo-Buddhists who try to stuff their fear because they think it’s unfashionable. But we make a deal with our bodies that it’s better for the entire organism if we manage our fear, reducing our investments in fear about things we already know about, and saving our big extravaganzas of fear and anxiety for the surprises.
Forgiving is about trust at two levels. First, trust that certain bad things will happen. We can look at this statistically, if we’re inclined. A certain fraction of people we meet will be destructive emotional cripples. A certain fraction of things we buy will turn out to be unusable junk. A certain number of conversations with our relatives will include uninvited comments about our choices, our characters or our weight. Trusting that these things will happen eliminates the surprise factor and enables us to plan around these statistical likelihoods.
Second, forgiving is also a kind of trophy we get for doing the work and coming out the other side of the trauma processing. In that sense, it is about renewed trust in ourselves and in the universe. What was once a huge deal is now fully digested and just a learning experience attached to some unpleasant memories. We are whole again and on generally good terms with the big intelligence that runs everything.
In all of this, you’ve probably noticed how little I’ve talked about the perpetrator. And I’m sure you understand why. Because this is really something between the various forms of intelligence in ourselves, and it is something between us and the big intelligence that runs everything.
But still we need to get down some practicalities too. So here is what forgiveness is NOT:
• It is not condoning or acceptance of anything we find hurtful, unethical, uncaring or anything else that is bad for us. (We may find ourselves releasing negative feelings about something, when we come to understand why it happened, but we don’t have to. This is not ultimately about them. It is whether we’re ready to move on.)
•It is not about compartmentalizing or denial. We are not “stuffing” it or pretending it never happened. We’re not trying to convince ourselves that we haven’t just been through a battle or deluding ourselves that we’re more powerful than we are. We are just gradually shifting our attention away from it, as we feel comfortable doing so. We are gradually reclaiming our interest in other things.
• It is not a reason for re-involving ourselves with people or situations that hurt us. We don’t forgive so we can jump into that pool again. The only reason we would do that is if we have evolved past the point of being hurt by what hurt us before (something that doesn’t often happen) or if the person or the situation has gone through some kind of cosmic surgery and is now something else. Remember, forgiving comes AFTER we have learned self-protection in the angry phase and let go of whatever got us into this situation. If we forgive because we want to do the same thing all over again ”¦ well, you don’t need me to tell you what you’re volunteering for.
• Likewise, it is not a social cure. If we’re forgiving because we’re embarrassed about being such a bore, or because our bad feelings are alienating our families, or because we want to get along better with people who just don’t get it, we victimizing ourselves all over again. We’re giving away our authority over our own feelings, and trying to force ourselves to feel something we don’t, in order to be accepted. If it’s really important that we not communicate the full force of the outrage or grief we’re dealing with – like in a work situation or in court — we can do that. We can selectively choose where, when and how much we share, while we continue to work through our trauma privately. The ability to do this — letting some people in and keeping others out — is good practice in developing the skills of conditional trust.
• There is no reason that we have to forgive people to their faces or even let them know about it. In fact, if we’re really ready to stop wasting energy, we probably won’t. We don’t just stop bothering with them in our heads; we stop bothering with them in real life. We avoid engagement. If we have to spend energy on some kind of mop-up or dealing with continuing drama from their side, we handle it with an eye toward ending all of it, because we want to be done with it.
Finally, forgiving is not an all-or-nothing thing. Nor is it a carved-in-stone solution. We don’t say, “Oh, I’ve decided it’s not worth caring anymore about what he (or she) did to me, and now I have to not care about the new thing he (or she) is doing to me.” It doesn’t work that way. Forgiving is a way of allocating our own resources. If new circumstances require us to grab a sword and slay a few dragons before dinner, then we do it. After we come home and shower, we can decide whether we’re ready to forgive the loss of our afternoon, or if we need to spend more time processing that little irritation.
And if we absolutely feel like we must announce our decision to forgive to the sociopath, here’s a suggested forgiveness note:
I’ve decided not to give you any more attention. I’m not going to track you down, hire a hit man or sue you for theft or mental suffering. I’ve dealt with my losses by myself. But don’t confuse this with weakness. The next time you show up, it won’t be such a pleasant or profitable experience for you. I also advise you to you grow up, for your own sake. Not everyone is as forgiving as me. As Henry the XV said to a murderous friend, “I pardon you, but I also pardon whoever kills you.”
In the next article, we begin on the wonderful topic of becoming who we want to be.
Namaste. The wise emotional accountant in me salutes the wise emotional accountant in you.
Kathy
Rune,
Thanks for the words of encouragement. I am trying to be patient although I’m sure I don’t sound like I am!
I don’t even talk to my friends very much anymore about my son because that drains my patience, big time. To often I walk away from them feeling completely exhausted by trying to explain the unexplainable. And when they see him on his “perfect” behavior such as they did during my older sons wedding, I am SURE that they must think I am crazy…..
My friends that have known me most of my life seem to be the ones that know me well enough that when I tell them “something” is very wrong, they know even though I can’t articulate it well…..Those few “lifer” friends in my circle have known me long enough to know that I have very good instinct and logical down to earth thinking. And that I have thought this through long and hard before even speaking about it. My one friend that came in for the wedding we were able to talk for a short time. It felt good to be able to talk to an old friend again.
Witsend: I’m glad you have that support. I know it means so much to know you have friends who care about you, even if they can’t do anything directly to help the situation. We need that emotional safety net.
Dear Witsend, Geminigirl, etc. I know you all know the pain that is so specific to a parent who “loses” a child, or thinks the child may be “terminal” but are not sure—it is such a crushing feeling, and one several people here on LF can relate to.
I’ve been on my own oddesy with this for 20+ years and am only now coming to the conclusion of it all where there is peace and not the chest crushing grief and pain I have felt for so long.
I stayed in denial lfor waaaaay too long, held on the maligniant “hope” that there was something I could do. I tried “it all” and nothing worked for me. For those of you who still have some hope because your children are not fully adults yet, I pray for you and for your children. for those of you like Geminigirl and myself (and the others here too) that have a more clear picture of what our offspring have become. Accepting REALITY is not easy, but it is our only way out of the fire of the grief.
Sabrina, I know that these “well lmeaning souls” tell you never to give up, but this is a platitude that they offer because they do not “get it”—-they don’t realize that it is only when you ACCEPT REALITY that you can heal.
sometimes I have felt like my small boys’ pictures should be on a milk carton advertizing “have you seen this child? Call 1-800-MISSING”
My little boys are gone. all of them. But, I now have FRIENDS in two of them, and the third is a stranger to me. I don’t know him. But ALL of my babies are “no more.” I am finally at peace with the transformation of two of my babies into wonderful MEN, and the third baby turned into a man I don’t know, or want to know. Peace to you all!
I believe that all of us on this site have gone through changes that we never anticipated EVER in our lives.
Ox-Drover, I believe that no one should have to live through the trials and loss that you have suffered, yet, here you are. And you are a generous guide to the rest of us as you share what you have learned on this unspeakably difficult journey of your life.
Those of us who are struggling in our moments, dealing with the trauma of the betrayal, we might consider that on the other side of this we will be humans who can care and give in ways we never imagined.
That cast-iron skillet that Oxy is so clever with used to be just dirt in the ground. The iron ore was mined and refined through heat and “trauma,” and then it was cast into its final shape — a skillet that can feed a table of hungry relations, or provide a little friendly reminder of the true path when wielded by a wise hand here in cyberspace.
We don’t really know what we’re going to look like on the other side of this journey of recovery. Maybe we’ll change from caterpillars into butterflies, or from “dirt” into iron skillets!
Thank you Witsend, Kathy, Oxy,
thanks to all of you amazing women who have faced up to these demons, been through fire, hell, and flood, and come out the other side wiser and stronger. Its true,”What doesnt kill us makes us stronger! ‘” I doubt if Id have had the courage to write that lette to deb without the wisdom and support of you guys.Now I need your prayers and support more than ever to help me not to turn into Jello, and quit before Ive even begun. I know I have to see this through, and NOT give in. The universe is helping me big time, with you great people, with books,with insights. I MUST NOT second guess myself. I MUST NOT waver. I must NOT allow fears re not seeing my grandkids sway me. I must stick to my guns.You really do get to a place when everything in you says “ENOUGH ALREADY!’ Ive allowed myself to be abused,for 30 years, Ive let it happen to me.I know its no good appealing to my daughters, as they are the enemy. I cant appeal to their better natures as they dont have one. I have to accept they will NEVER change, protect myself, and move on with my life with my darling husband.I have to shut the door firmly on the past, and move forward, to a great new life.I now really believe NC is the only option for me ,as when I talk to Deb on the phone, all the tears, lies, blaming,[from her} starts all over again. Its totally crazy-making.Even my ex told me to “Treat them both with the indifference and contempt with which they treat you”. So even HE got it! They are not any nicer or more loving to him, either, and only see him twice a year at most.Thanks again, love and blessings to all of you!! GeminigirlXXX
It is my belief that even if you had past experience with an s/p/n in your lifetime on another level, when it is your child it is a complete differnt ballgame. Not to MINIMIZE in any way any “personal” encounter with an s/p/n.
But it is just DIFFERENT. The parent/child bond/relationship is not ment to be broken. Going N/C with a child that you raised is like going against NATURE. And yet when you find yourself in a situation such as what you are going through….When everything else you have tried doesn’t work……WHEN ENOUGH IS ENOUGH ALREADY……And there is no other way to “continue” any type of HEALTHY adult child/parent relationship……You don’t have any other options. I can’t think of anything more devistating than coming to terms with what you have had to come to terms with.
My son is 16 and I have not yet concluded that he has a “terminal” illness. I still am at the stages of hope. Maybe Bipolar, maybe a combination of the many other disorders that are out there. So many of the symptoms are so “over lapping” that the more more research I do the more confused I become. I AM CONVINCED however that he is not just showing average “defiant” teenager syndrome. He is so complex, so Dr Jekle & Mr Hyde, the lies, the manipulation, the anger, the blaming, his ENTITELEMENT issues, his lack of reality, his black & white thinking, it is far to “over the top” and intense for me to believe that this is just a temporary teenage “set back” and all will be “well’ a few years down the road. I would have to be blind, deaf & stupid, to believe that. He does not just have an “outward” attitude problem, or an outward behavior problem….His problem is within his brain. He has distorted thinking/functioning problem. He is for sure “wired” differently. Hard to put into words….Its just the BIG PICTURE. Its the combination of ALL of the complexities of what he consist of.
I am not sure if my “hope” at this point is my biggest downfall or if it is my best defense. I only know that it is what gets me through each day. It is HARD living with my son.
Everything I have been through in my lifetime that I thought was HARD, my divorce from my oldest sons dad, death of my parents, suicide of my husband, these things seems like just little ripples in the water compared to this “title wave”.
I have so many days that I feel completely defeated. I don’t understand this, other than maybe I felt more “support” from others during these other “hardships” in my life. Somehow I feel more alone “with this”. My friends and little family I have left, don’t “get it”. And the more they don’t get it the more I internalize it. His DAMN counselor that he has been seeing for over 8 months doesn’t get it either. I suppose this makes it easier for me to always question my own insticts and gut feelings.
Geminigirl I am not yet near your fork in the road……However I do feel some of your pain. My heart goes out to you. All stages of this when it concerns your own flesh and blood are painful.
Oxy,
It is through your wisdom and acceptance of your experience that the rest of us know that “survival” is possible when going through this with a child (adult child OR younger).
Thanks for your never ending energy of being able to share this with all of us here.
Thank you, all of you, for your wonderful wisdom and support.
Yes, witsend, it is the hardest thing Ive ever had to do EVER. Harder than leaving my ex, with just cents in my pocket.But you know, knowledge is power, and Im learning about survival from you guys, how not to keep second guessing myself, to trust my gut,{you know that awful feeling in the pit of your stomach that wont go away}. I know Ive tried and tried,30 years of giving and giving, and them taking and taking.All the terrible pain of the bad things they both did to me. Family doesnt understand, neither do friends. Your church tells you to just keep on loving them unconditionally. Well, it doesnt work! theymistake kindness fore weakness, and despise you for it.What is making it easier is this. Last Sept. , on my way home from a holiday in Scotland,I met this charming young Iranian couple, Abbas and Royaon the flight home from Dubai.. She is 23, he is 24. They were newly married, and allowed in to Australia on temp student visas. They are renting a tiny flat from an Iranian friend, who has gone back to Iran to see his parents. David and I have kind of adopted them. Well, we have adopted each other! They call us,”Daddy”, and mama Maia”, they hug and kiss us, they are so desperate for a loving family,-as we are! They come for lunch around every 3 weeks, and are such fun, so loving, sweet,appreciative.Abbas , who is a Journalist in iran, has taken a job as a house painter for a friend, and works punishing hours. They came to lunch yesterday, Roya brought a home made cake, hugged and kissed me. “how I miss you, my darling mama!” she cried. For my Birthday, my 70th, she brought a dozen pink roses, a cake, and a lovely card,saying I was the best mama in the whole world, and she thanks god for me every day. David, who has had nothing but grief from my 2 daughters, is loving being called “daddy”, and getting hugs from this lovely young girl. We send them away with lots of frozen meals, magazines,I gave them a warm dressing gown each, and they were in tears, Abbas, too.”Thank you, my dear Mum!” he said.The contrast between this sweet, loving couple and my two ‘girls”, is staggering. When deb comes here, she immediately gets behind a magazine, and doesnt even talk to us. David, me, and her ex husband used to feed and care for her kids, which we were happy to do, but she never thanks us, and in all the 25 years weve married, shes never brought as much as a packet of biscuits into our house, any gifts we got were second hand or “freebies”, even the wrapping paper was used!I still love my girls but I dislike them both intensely, and I cant pretend they have done anything for us except cause us worry and grief.So in a way, its like god has removed my daughters, and given me a new daughter to love, and a son too. The french writer, Anais Nin once wrote,”if you were at sea on a life raft, and were trying to save someone from drowning, youd take their hand and try to pull them with all your strength onto the raft, and save their life. But, if that person started to deliberately pull you into the water, at some point, you would have to let go of that hand, let them drown, and save yourself”. This is now what is happening to me. I choose LIFE! I choose, from this day, to be with people like Roya and Abbas, who appreciate me, love me, and give something back! Not money,but love, thoughtfullness and appreciation. The Dementia respite centre where I do voluntary work, appreciate me so much, they gave me a cake, flowers, a lovly signed card, on my Birthday, and even made a speech in my honour! I didnt even merit a card from Deb, and the other one has had no contact in 16anda half years, despite my pleadings by letter to see her kids,{I havenever once seen them, not even as tiny babies}.”I have had a gutful of these selfish manipulative cruel b-tces, and I now am in a place where I choose a happy life with people who love ME.Do not cast your pearls before swine” said Jesus, and boy, is He right!
Can you hear that sound, ? It was a worm turning, -ME!!
Love to all of you great guys, geminigirl.
On a slightly different aspect of life with an NS,have any of you guys heard ofthe term”Gaslighting”?I found an article about it yesterday on a “Survival with an Sociopath/narcissist website. it comes from the film “gaslight, the heroine being Ingrid Bergman.What the evil psychpath lover did to her was try to convince her she was crazy, by doing subtle things each day like turning the gaslight lower and lower, to convince her her eyesight was failing.Then I think he got evil friends to “haunt” her, so that she eventually started to doubt herself, and think she was losing her mind. NSs do this all the time it seems. They project al their faults onto you, the victim,
ie, your a drama queen! {Heard that one afew times!} or your so selfish! hello? isnt it them who are the selfish ones?
Reminded me of a terrifying incident with Deb around1981, i innocently asked her,{trying to be so tactful, as I didnt want another rage fuelled screaming match}, if her boyfriend would mind coming to the front door to meet me. Instead of her responding to the toot of his car horn, running up the drive, and away into the night. She was actually standing ironing a pair of her jeans,at the opposite end of her downstairs room. I was standing in the door jamb of the brand new door, which still hadnt been painted. After screaming abuse at me, she hurled the heavy steam iron at my head. It mised me by a hand span, and hit the door jamb, level with my right temple. Later, both she and Claire,{who hadnt been there} both screamed at me,”Deborah didnt throw anything at you! Your crazy! You should be committed!” I started to doubt my sanity and memory,{like ingrid bergman did in gaslight.} Some5 or 6 yers later, by which time I was divorced from my ex, and happily remarried to David, this incident started to prey on my mind. I was determined to go backto that house of bad memories, and find the evidence I needed, ie, the dent in the door jamb. So, one day, not telling david, I made the long treck to my old home. Took me over 2 hours as we now lived a long way from Newport, sydney. My heart was pounding as I got off the bus, so much that I felt sick with nerves. I walked down the steep hill and found our old home. I knocked on the door of this house where i had lived with peter, my alcoholic husband, and the girls, for over 8 years. A very small boy, around 5 or so, answered it. Come in! He said. he and a little boy his age were all alone in the house., watching TV, with the heavy brown velvet curtains closed. Mums at work, he said,”Can I get you a cup of tea?”
I explained that I had lived in the house before, and just wanted to look round for old times sake. “Thats OK!’ he said, quite unfazed. I was aware I was trespassing, so asked if IIcould ring his Mum at work. he gave me the number, but I couldnt get through to her. While standing in what had been my kitchen, the kitchen that peter and I had put in ourselves before Debs drunken friends had trashed the whole house. I saw a copper jug, and a brass vase. “Thats strange! I told the little boy. “I used to have vases just like that!” then I realised they WERE mine! After I fled, when I was beaten up, taking nothing, peter and the girls moved 6 months later, and the house was sold from under him, as he was 3 months in arrears with the mortgage, due to his drinking, and gambling debts. What they didnt want they left behind, so these vases were mine!”{The girls were 17 and 19 when I left.} Naturally I didnt mention this to the wee boy.I asked if hed mind if I went downstairs. Standing in the doorway downstairs, level with my right temple, was a dent in the soft wood{stillunpainted}, that I was able to fit my whole thumb into. Thats all I wanted to know .It HAD happened! I wasnt crazy! When I got home, david said, “Where on earth have you been, Ive had the Newport police ringing me!{Id left my phone no. on the breakfast bar of my old home. Apparently, the wee boys Mum had come home from work, discovered that her son had let a stranger in, and I imagine to distract attention from the fact she had left two tiny children on their own,all day, had “jumped the gun” and decided to dob me in instead! After Id explained everything to the poice, they said.”Maam,its obviously a storm in a teacup, well explain all this to the boys Mother, and leave it at that>} I never heard another word from her, so she must have felt guilty for leaving her small son on his own for hours each day.
{What an amazing kid, even offering me a cup of tea!}
So this was my own experience of someone trying to gaslight me! geminigirl. HugsXX
Geminigirl,
Yes, gaslighting is right out of Sociopath 101A. They all do this in some form or other, as many people here will attest to. I’m so sorry your daughters were so abusive. I was getting an image in my head of the movie “What Ever Happened to Baby Jane” when the Betty Davis character was trying to drive her sister crazy and then slowly kill her. This sounds just horrible. I think it’s great that you have drawn your line in the sand. I can imagine how hard it was with your own daughters.