Question: Why do people engage in aggressive behaviour (some, as we know, rather more than others)?
Answer: Because they enjoy it.
There’s a bit of a flutter on the internet (see here and here) about research coming out of Vanderbilt University. Studying mice, Maria Couppis and Craig Kennedy have found that aggression can be as emotionally rewarding as food or sex.
The neurotransmitter dopamine has been implicated in nearly every experience we consider rewarding, such as love, drugs, eating, and sex. Indeed, the mesolimbic dopamine pathway is referred to as the reward system of the brain. Dopamine is necessary for reinforcement, e.g. the ex-smoker’s craving brought about by the whiff of cigarette smoke.
Now a direct connection has been drawn between dopamine and aggression. In the experiement the male home mouse continually pushed a button to let in an intruder mouse which it then aggressed. When treated with a dopamine antagonist (blocking the activity of the dopamine) the home mouse decreased its button-pushing. (For a discussion of the experiment see here.)
(Incidentally, it is important not to conflate aggression and violence. Aggression is dominating behaviour. For the mice aggressive behavior included tail rattle, an aggressive sideways stance, boxing and biting – two non-violent and two non-violent behaviours.)
“We learned from these experiments that an individual will intentionally seek out an aggressive encounter solely because they experience a rewarding sensation from it,” Kennedy said. “This shows for the first time that aggression, on its own, is motivating, and that the well-known positive reinforcer dopamine plays a critical role.”
Not that surprising?
I suspect that lovefraud/blog readers who have been on the receiving end of aggression won’t be surprised by these findings. Says Dr. Bliss at Maggies’ farm, “I cannot speak about mice, but every psychiatrist – and every person – knows that this is a fact for human beings.”
Any comments?
A query I have is runs something like this. Many commentators on this blog speak of increased assertiveness, anger, determination, etc. which has enabled them to get through relationships with psychopaths, to gain self-respect, and to make new lives. Would you say that you have learned to better access aggression? And if so, is there pleasure in it?
Great point, Ox. Although I think with psychology, it’s a bit more challenging.
Ox,
How can we throw out “symptoms/signs” of a disorder if we can’t PROVE that it exists?
My therapist and I have been going around the block on this today. I’m SO GLAD he’s willing to work with me.
I have to tell you though….his position is that NOTHING Is unchangeable.
Now before you BOINK me with the pan, I DO see where he’s coming from from the level of a psychological position.
For example, today he told me that he had a client who was previously diagnosed ASPD, BUT while working with him, the man changed. His wife and newborn daughter split from him TWICE and he woke up. He did NOT want to be separated from them…..so he made BIG changes to his life and his interractions with his wife that endure to this DAY..
So I said to him, after contemplating this……….
“Then he wasn’t ASPD, was he?”
“Exactly!” he said………..this is why the word, “label” of “change” can also be misconstrued………..
When I see a client who exhibits this behavior, I have to keep an open mind to CHANGE insofar as diagnosis……….there will be ACTION versus WORDS………….
He said, “I will not label your ex a spath. But I WILL validate YOUR experience in that is was SEVERELY ABUSIVE and I”M open to you arguing your point with me……keep arguing with me…”
I think I know where this is going.
He lit a fire under my ass today. I found myself doing something that was not allowed with spath and being VALIDATED….
My opinion. Which was NEVER allowed.
LL
This is why we need to be careful what we “label” people.
My xhusband was MUCH different than my recent b/f.
My xhusb was diagnosed as having “no conscience” and “unrehabilitative” by a very competent therapist.
He never called him a sociopath.
In fact, I never heard of a sociopath before I came onto this site….
I dated abusers, conartists, patholigical liars…over the years.
I am SURE that my xhusb is a true sociopath.
My b/f is NOT. I thought he was because he was lying to me about certain things…had a rough upbringing…and seem to fit some of the characteristics of a “sociopath”.
I was confused about what his “issues” were since I started reading this site. I know that he can empathize…yet, being a cop, he does have trust issues with people…and is afraid to tell the truth about certain things….and is a bit “macho” in his own ways…but I don’t see a person who has no remorse.
I also see selfishness in him…at times. He needs attention and love and reassurance a lot. He had a very neglectful and abusive upbringing.
So, is he a narcissist? Is he a sociopath? Is he just insecure?
He is NOT abusive at all. He is always kind and mannerly. He has never lost his temper or called me a name.
So, we cannot label someone without professional evaluation.
Alcoholics, abusers, drug addicts, bipolar……are dangerous…but not sociopaths.
Hmmmm
LL,
Sometimes the diagnosis is wrong so a person who has been diagnosed as psychopath (or ASPD) is incorrectly diagnosed to start with and they might get better, but not all agree that ASPD=Psychopath.
I’m not going to argue or even discuss this at any great length with you tonight, there is PLENTY OF STUFF HERE ON LF by Dr. Leedom and there are a lot of great books that go over this SAME ground so there is no sense in me trying to repeat it here. I suggest that you read these articles and order some of the books written by experts, and then you can take them to your therapist and let him read them. Not that he isn’t a great therapist but just cause it comes out of his mouth don’t make it “gospel.”
ps I didn’t mean to sound hateful in the above post, it is just that I don’t see any great point in rehashing what evidence is already well written up here on LF and in lots of the books about psychopathy written by THE true experts who have studied and researched this for decades.
Something to consider:
“The genetic deletion of Monoamine Oxidase A(MAOA), an enzyme that breaks down the monoamine neurotransmitters norepinephrine, serotonin, and dopamine, produces aggressive phenotypes across species. Therefore, a common polymorphism in the MAO A gene (referred to as high or low based on transcription in non-neuronal cells) has been investigated in a number of externalizing behavioral and clinical phenotypes. These studies provide evidence linking the low MAOA genotype and violent behavior but only through interaction with severe environmental stressors during childhood. We hypothesized that in healthy adult males the gene product of MAO A in the brain, rather than the gene per se, would be associated with regulating the concentration of brain amines involved in trait aggression…
Here we report for the first time that brain MAO A correlates inversely with the MPQ trait measure of aggression (but not with other personality traits) such that the lower the MAO A activity in cortical and subcortical brain regions, the higher the self-reported aggression (in both MAOA genotype groups) contributing to more than one-third of the variability. Because trait aggression is a measure used to predict antisocial behavior, these results underscore the relevance of MAO A as a neurochemical substrate of aberrant aggression.”
Basically, MAO A breaks down norepinephrine, serotonin, and dopamine. Low MAO A activity means neurotransmitters are broken down more slowly.
Higher norepinephrine levels would imply increased aggression and higher dopamine increased compulsivity.
Question for all:
Did you P/S smoke? Mine did, and I have a theory on this…
BBE,
.
Some do and some don’t just like with others….that is part of the problem on research stats right now, until the professionals can agree on a name for the condition, and agree on the symptomology there isn’t any way that good stats can be formed.
My P son does not smoke, smoked a minor amount of grass, but doesn’t seem to crave drugs or tobacco. My P sperm donor smoked like a chimney but hated drugs or alcohol, my egg donor and her whole family were smokers. I smoked from teenaged years until I quit a couple of years ago, my X BF drank like a fish but only smoked 3 (no more and no less) cigarettes per day, my X DIL that tried to kill her husband my son C neither smoked nor drank during the years she was married to my son, but there at the last she started both drugs and alcohol as well as cheating on him.
The Trojan Horse psychopath drank, and drugged, but didn’t smoke. I’ve known other people I think were very high on the PCL-R that neither drank nor drugged or smoked….some that did all three. Some folks who did all three and were NOT psychopathic. Just “stories” but not data….not enough information to form a pattern over the whole race of them.
BBE,
Mine DID NOT smoke, but was a MAJOR alcoholic.
Ox,
I get that. I”ve already ordered and read books. They apply to my experience.
As does what I read here.
I don’t think anyone’s word is “gospel” at this point.
LL