A woman who married and had children with two different sociopathic men wrote us this week. Her story and questions are timely since they allow me to mention another upcoming book, the conference Donna and I attended last weekend and to discuss vindictiveness.
It seems most women who have children with sociopaths end up with the sociopaths walking out on their children as well as the women, leaving the survivors to mop up and struggle to understand what happened on their own. From what I understand of sociopaths, the prevalent attitude they seem to behave as if they “don’t care” about anything except doing what benefits them”¦ (she told her story of marriage, children, custody battles and vindictive sociopaths)”¦ So, is vindictiveness a trait typically found in sociopaths or are these guys merely trying to maintain or regain their power and it just happens to look like vindictiveness on the surface? These guys have definitely expressed some serious rage, especially after losing as spectacularly as they did when they tried to take custody and prevent me from moving. Is anger an emotion sociopaths feel when they don’t get their own way? Do they ever “get over” it?
Many women tend to repeatedly pick sociopaths as partners
There are many women who have relationships with more than one sociopathic man. Sometimes children result from one or all of the relationships, since sociopaths like to father a lot of children. (My son’s father has 7 children I know about.) The resultant children carry the sociopath’s genes and are exposed to the sociopath’s fathering behavior.
Sociopathic/psychopathic men are at least 4 times more common than sociopathic women. The interpersonal love-relationship patterns are the means by which sociopaths replicate themselves and perpetuate sociopathy within our society. It is very important, then, to understand women who love sociopathic men. Is there anything different about them? Are they drawn to sociopaths because of prior abuse? Is it simply that sociopaths con them and they are especially gullible? These are tough questions for those of us who have had relationships with sociopathic men, but we have to ask them. The stakes are too high for everyone for us to avoid asking and answering these questions. Sandra L. Brown, M.A., and I recently conducted a survey/study that has addressed these questions and more. Stay tuned because a book with our initial findings is nearly complete. The results are enlightening and freeing.
Batterers often win custody of children
Last weekend Donna and I attended a conference, the Battered Women’s Custody Conference. This conference is held every year and so plan on attending next year if you missed it. The conference addresses one end of the spectrum of sociopaths—sociopathic men who are physically violent. It is incredible the courts often give children over to these sociopaths! Batterers are a little different from the sociopaths most of us know. These sociopaths have been referred to as secondary psychopaths, as opposed to the primary psychopaths we are most familiar with.
Primary verses secondary psychopathy
Secondary psychopaths are more insecure (than are primary psychopaths) about the status and power they so desire. Whereas primary psychopaths are grandiose and feel confident in their supremacy, secondary psychopaths are always on the lookout for threats to their status. They are also prepared to meet status threats with physical violence. Secondary psychopaths have more problems with impulse control than primary psychopaths. They also tend to be more emotional, displaying more anger. I think the average perpetrator of domestic violence fits the profile of a secondary psychopath very well.
There are other minor differences between secondary and primary psychopaths, but the similarities between them are more noteworthy than the differences. Both primary and secondary psychopaths are unable to love, have poor impulse control and impaired moral reasoning. Genetics play a substantial role in the development of both, and it is not true that one is environmental and the other genetic, as is commonly believed.
Sociopathic fathers
The parenting behavior of sociopaths has not been thoroughly studied. In my opinion the reason for this is the belief held by many researchers and clinicians that sociopaths abandon their young. This belief is related to another belief—that sociopaths are incapable of attachment. These two fallacies have stood in the way of efforts to eliminate this disorder and the suffering of victims. First of all, to those who hold on to the second misconception, If sociopaths are incapable of attachment, why do they engage in stalking? Scientists measure attachment as the tendency to seek proximity to a specific special other. Is not stalking the ultimate manifestation of attachment behavior? Sociopaths often verbally report they love others. Let’s take this to be a reflection of a longing for specific people, then we can start to understand sociopaths.
The feeling of longing
The feeling of longing sociopaths have is related to the fact that certain people in their lives have previously been a source of pleasure. We tend to get attached to things and people that have brought us pleasure in the past. There are three social pleasures: affection, dominance and sex, and possibly a separate fourth, parenting. Although sociopaths may experience a modicum of affection, the primary pleasure they derive from relationships is associated with power as opposed to love. When a sociopath says, “I love you,” he means he greatly enjoys the pleasure of possessing you and having power over you. SO how dare you question his love!
Children are also possessions sociopaths enjoy having dominion over. Part of the enjoyment of parenting they have is the prospect of turning, particularly sons, into miniature versions of themselves. For this reason, any money that the court orders your sociopath to give his children is not worth the trade off. If your sociopath will give up his possessions for a price, pay him off and be done with him. If the sociopath succeeds at his goal of turning his sons into miniature versions of himself, you will live your entire life surrounded by sociopaths, you will never escape and have peace/love.
Vindictiveness
Sociopaths are by nature extremely vindictive! Vindictiveness comes from the power/dominance system in our brains. Scientific studies show that sociopathic people derive great pleasure from revenge. Revenge is a very primitive emotion that evolved to ensure enforcement of social reciprocity. It evolved before the capacity for love. We know this because of studies of chimpanzees. Chimpanzees are very vindictive and vengeful when a comrade fails to reciprocate, and their capacity for love has not evolved much. It is only the threat of revenge that induces chimpanzees to cooperate with each other, because they do not have love bonds that motivate cooperation. When a chimpanzee shares his food, he does not likely get a warm fuzzy feeling inside, instead he knows that others will later do the same for him. If others fail to reciprocate, revenge is always taken.
Thankfully most humans receive a double reward when they cooperate with each other and a double punishment when they fail to cooperate. The double reward is the inherent pleasure in knowing we did a good for someone else, and the thought that good might someday be reciprocated. The double punishment is the guilt over harming someone and the fear that the harm will be reciprocated. Please hear me, sociopaths are like chimpanzees. They do not feel good when they do good for someone, they thus expect immediate reciprocity. They do not feel bad when they hurt someone, but they are smart enough to know revenge might follow. This is why prison is an occupational hazard for them. They also do not comprehend the guilt other people feel. This is why it is important to them to mete out huge punishments toward everyone who has offended them.
When you have to deal with sociopaths, be ever mindful that these individuals are devoid of pleasure from goodness and devoid of guilt over evil. Although they take advantage of other’s emotions, they have it in their minds that the rest of the human race is like them. They therefore feel it is necessary to get revenge in order to reduce the likelihood of future attacks on their status, power and possessions.
For me, I fell in love with the man I met but that love diminished when I finally saw who he really was. Had my husband been the man I met, we would have built on that beginning and the bond would have gotten stronger. I feel he lied to me to get me, and trapped himself with something he really didn’t want. But he had to go through with it, or so he thought.
I think the vindictiveness revolves around the games they play. If there was an ounce of caring in them, they wouldn’t have built a relationship on seeing how much they could get for themselves and causing enormous hurts that will eventually dim, but will always leave a haunting memory.
When I finally realized that what my husband was doing was called abuse, I pulled away from him. I wanted to find out if it was me doing all the initiating or if he contributed anything. Nothing happened, except the gulf got that much wider. I’m finally seeing him more than ever for who he is. He’s older than I am, but I don’t live my age and didn’t think he did either. He does to a certain extent, but the most of his mind is entrenched in his past. I’m not part of that past. He has actually be able to recreate that past, rather boring though it is, but that’s where he’s the happiest and as long as I didn’t rock his boat, he just went his merry way. Now I’m just waiting for the house to sell and I can finally get my own life and don’t have to fear reprisals.
Because of that miserable marriage that left me so needy and vulnerable, I met a man who turned into a nightmare. He saw my neediness and jumped on that. What a miserable excuse for a human being. I see me in so many of these situations and it strengthens my resolve to keep my thoughts and feelings to myself. Because of these two men, I doubt whether I’ll ever be able to trust a man again.
The vindictiveness I encountered, consisted of the covert kind. Nothing that caused physical damage, but sure damaged my emotional well being. Denial, exclusion, neglect, etc. I thought for so long it’s just the difference between men and women. Not so. After reading all these posts, there really is something demented with these men. I’ve had so many “duh” moments. Like when I finally faced reality and admitted to myself, this “friend” has had many relationships, some that resulted in marriage, some live-ins, but they all fell through. They left him, because he was constantly cheating on them. How could I offer him something different? I couldn’t and can’t. If he can find a woman to pay his bills and he’ll give her a little sex, he thinks he did his part. He thinks just showing up is doing his part. My husband did, too. Like as long as he was there, he didn’t have to contribute a thing. His presence was all that was necessary. What ego! What ego? Neither one is accomplished as far as careers are concerned. But yet they think I’m the inferior one in the way they treat me. What garbage thinking and I bought into it.
I realize now that I made it all too easy for my husband and picked up the slack because of his laziness and resisted this “friend” and he just took that as a challenge. To him, that was all the more reason to play his stupid games, and to me that was vindictiveness because I wouldn’t cooperate and do it all his way. I guess there are many stages of vindictiveness. I think any behavior that causes hurt, dismay, disillusionment, etc., is vindictive. There is something very warped in these people, that the only pleasure they get out of life, is tearing another person apart. Sure glad I’m on the other side of all that.
To Jules. I think we have all been through the ‘maybe I could have been the right one for him, maybe its me’ phase. This of course is all part of the addictive cycle of the relationship. I went through that phase each time we broke up and even at the end. But when I keep reading and reminding myself what a real loving genuine relationship is like, and I read my notes on the cruel games he played – it reassures me that I did the right thing in leaving him. Some people seem to remember the good times and ‘dampen down’ the bad times. Real loving relationships dont have this roller coaster effect.
It must be the last cruel nail, when you see them with another, but rest assured that the next ones will go through the same weather. Your ex may modify his tactics, but the end result is to screw your mind and gain possession of you- so bring yourself back to centre and keep remembering why the relationship didnt work – what bad behaviour he played on you, the lies, the manipulation, what needs of yours werent met, what parts of yourself you gave away, the good things about you he abused and took for granted.
And remember a photo is only a 1 second snapshot in time and can deceive. Bring yourself back down to earth and think about what made you so vulnerable in that relationship and how you can prevent it happening again.
I am 40 with 2 children and my socio was 15 years younger. I dont look my age or at least I didnt until his wrath. I too have been having some bad down days. Physically looking and emotionally feeling a mess. I wish I knew better. I have mentioned it before, when he pursued me he was just back in town from FL where he lived with another older wealthy woman for a year. Makes ya wonder now. I too had the classic punishment/torture of lies, cheating, nasty talking and of course the exclusion and neglect. This was coupled with his charming conning manipulation when he wanted to come back. It was always for a short time but a whirl wind of one until I did something to piss him off and he was gone again! Always leaving me questioning what I did wrong and what I could of done different.
Cell phones are a great tool for them…he would call and return calls from wherever he was when on the hunt. Then dissapear or make plans and never follow through making me wait. He too thought showing up was all he had to do. Having sex with me was a bonus to ME. I was conditioned to mold myself to these cycles to the point that I didn’t care if he was with other woman. I had told him just use a condom and I dont want to know about it. I began to think that if he was still coming back he must love me and that he would settle down at some point…he was young. I was and am sooo very wrong!
Again, I mention that as of 3 weeks ago he borrowed money and when I put my foot down to get it back he got angry and hasnt called or returned calls since. I have stopped calling and now a mutual male friend has called me, his brother called and I saw he driving by my house. I worry, that I will not be strong enough to resist if this is just the beginning of him trying to come back. He has no job, may be going to jail, really has nothing to offer so I dont know why I am still feeling the pain, confusion and dismay of this guy. I continue to fight with myself…thinking that if he does come back, I will let him and with my knowledge…stick it to him this time. That was my plan this last time but he beat me to it. Well, I guess I was hoping for things to be different/better remembering the plans and nice things he would say. I still struggle thinking that the nice guy is the real him and the other is not. I have strong up days and as of last night very down, not sleeping with major anxiety and depression. It hurts me that his family sucked me in so much as well. His co-conspiritors.
I would like to know the source of the statement that “genetics play a substantial role” in the development of sociopaths. I believe that is a theory, and by no means a fact.
The generational transmission of personality disorders, the effect of not-good-enough mothering, the causes and effects of radical affective disorder, the research on the post-traumatic neural pathways developed in diagnosed borderline personality disorder patients, and much more research suggests that the impact of environmental factors is massive. And that infants born with certain at-risk characteristics are by no means certain to develop into sociopaths.
There is a great deal of information being passed here around as fact about sociopaths, while in truth, we can only study them and categorize them according to their behaviors that are different from what is considered normal or well integrated. It is very difficult to get trustworthy information from them about their feelings and backgrounds, and almost impossible to trust the results of any test of psychological hypotheses on them that would explain their internal dynamics. The emotional reactions they trigger in psychological professionals who deal with them make it all that much more difficult. It is as though they were made to rebuff all attempts to understand or help them.
There is a great deal of good information being developed, on this blog as well as other site that talk about relationships with addicts and predators, about how to protect ourselves and recover from these relationships. But that is not the same thing as understanding the causes of this disorder or the inner life of people who live with it.
My own observations are they do not bond with feelings of voluntary dependence. They are unable to grasp the concept of mutuality at any deep level, though they can bargain. They are attached to winning, because they see relationships as power-based, and the potential outcomes of an interaction are to be diminished or enriched.
This inability to connect leaves them with an impoverished experience of life. They feel simultaneously grievously disadvantaged, which they take as a license to misbehave socially, and grandiose, because they are not “afflicted” by the emotions that complicate other people’s lives.
The result, for any feeling person who assumes that the sociopath is able to bond or is operating in any common social contract mode, is one loss after another. While the feeling person is indulging in feelings, the sociopath is strategizing how to use those feelings for another win. And the sociopath has no qualms about this, because for the sociopath, it’s a fair recompense for being permanently excluded from the feeling world.
And what has happened to the sociopath’s ability to feel connected with another person or the world? In another form of psychological theory, it is the shadow self. And anyone who has been involved with a sociopath has seen it. The occasional emergence of the heartrendingly needy child, who is so desperate not to be abandoned or who is begging to be loved in spite of horrible behavior, or who is clearly trying to counteract the cold predation of the dominant affect. It is one of the most confusing things about dealing with them, because at these moments they seem piteously vulnerable and human.
What causes a personality that is so fractured that the whole side that connects, feels empathy, can live with risk of rejection, and has faith in the benefits of mutuality, whether at the romantic or community level, has been relegated to a back room? There is enough information about child development and unprocessed trauma to provide some very good hints about this.
The previous paragraphs about what sociopaths “are” are not fact. They are based on my observation and reading of psychological theories, treatment methodologies and neurological research. An incest survivor, I have had direct relationships, with financial and emotional dependencies, with two sociopaths, one bi-polar borderline personality disorder, two active addicts, one inactive addict, one narcissist and pathological liar, and several people who were chronically depressed.
Obviously, I had my own post-traumatic developmental issues or I would not have been attracted to and bonded with these people. But if there is one thing that my life has taught me, it is that all broken people come from backgrounds that were also deeply troubled.
I’d like to say that all of them can be treated and, if not “cured,” their symptoms ameliorated with enough expertise and time. Unfortunately the “dark triad” present an almost insurmountable challenge, because their fundamental problem, in my view, is that they have, for good reason in the view of their traumatized developmental block, suppressed the capacity to trust. Anything. And that includes any real sense of their own identity. It makes it very difficult to get any information into them that might threaten the primacy of their protective shells.
None of this excuses anti-social behavior. None of it makes it any less important that feeling people recognize, avoid and defend themselves by whatever means necessary from the predation of people whose best idea of relationships is that they are opportunities to win.
But assigning the origins of “dark triad” behavior to genetics just suggests that there is a race of unfeeling monsters dormant in our genes, and I don’t believe it is so. I believe that we all can find the unfeeling monsters in ourselves when it is necessary to our survival, and these people have gotten stuck there. There are enough letters in this thread talking about the impact of parenting by personality disordered parents on children to make the point.
Ok, I am the odd man out here. I think I am one of the few males on the blogs dealing with a female sociopath ex-wife. On the question of vindictiveness, I wanted to inform everyone that I am having problems with restraining orders. This week I was in court for taking my 2 sons who are 1 and 5 to church where we ran into my ex-wife and new boyfriend. The boyfriend tried to pick a fight,, yes, fight, at CHURCH, that I declined,,twice, as my sociopath stood there with her devilish smile knowing I am unable to do anything because we are in a custody battle. The boys and I walked away, but the next day the sociopath and boyfriend filed a restraining order saying I was stalking them, yes, stalking, with a 1 year old and 5 year old. The problem was I could not prove my oldest son had been going to Sunday school at this church since he was 2. They do not keep the sign in records for some particular reason, also I had always given cash for the weekly donation, so there is no record of me ever being there. Its basically my word against hers. My sociopath is very articulate, charming, and well educated (shes a psychologist and the boyfriend is a patient of hers -story for another day) and in court she is very convincing. The Judge found that the case was very, very close and I just squeaked by. The reason given was my sons and I were walking to church towards the worship hall and the sociopath and friend were already there, stationary. That made us/me the aggressor, although I did not know there were there, nor even seen them till the last second, I was the party that approached, making me the AGGRESSOR. I had the Church write declaration letters, my neighbors who introduced me to the church write declaration letters, the Deli that the boys and I ate breakfast that morning before we went to church write declaration letters. So, the vindictiveness that you talk about is immeasurable, and this woman will never stop until she has sole custody of my kids or I am behind bars. This is the second restraining order attempt that was blocked and I am almost afraid to go out side. I think I just saw my divorce on an episode of Law and Order, I believe I am suppose to wakeup dead in Central park wearing and ugly jogging suit laying next to a goat or chickens or something. My advice for anyone, even if you have kids together is, avoid, avoid, avoid, at all costs.
I know it seems that most of the sociopathic behavior related here and elsewhere is about males. Although I am familiar with male sociopaths because my father was one and even though he died over 20 years ago I am still dealing with him by way of my sister and her daughter…who I raised. As bad and scary as my father was it barely compares to the fear and anxiety that my sister and her daughter have heaped into my life.
Dealing with a female sociopath is deadly business, the level of vindictiveness cannot be overestimated. They are ruthless. You have to stay ahead of them, anticipate their next move and remember that they always…I mean always use props. That’s why they seek the next boyfriend and the next because they push them out front to do their dirty work for them. Don’t ever give an inch, document everything…dates, times…prepare as if you were going to war..because that’s what it is, war.
The best therapy that has worked for me is distance, unfortunately that wasn’t always possible and it isn’t for most people who are dealing with the mother of their children.
Geez I can get myself so worked up and nervous just thinking about the lies, the twisted up stories in which they were always the victim. Hmmm lets see, you were caught shoplifting with so and so and you were caught drinking with someone different and you were caught stealing yet again with someone different…and even though YOU are the common denominator here, all these other people talked you into this..yeah sure.
My sister had serious problems as a little girl and from the age of 11-12 she started drinking, doing drugs, fighting, running away, skipping school. My self and another sister spent our teenage years always looking for her…she would bring strangers into our home in the middle of the night, she stole from anyone she could. Unfortunately after she got pregnant and had her daughter she dragged her around with her to bars, drug houses and would disappear for days at a time with the baby.
We (my other sister and I) intervened and took her daughter away when she was just over 2 years old. She of couse got pregnant again and had a boy. Long story short I eventually had both kids and my life became hell. My sister would not go away, she would not stop messing with the kids, she got visitation and used these kids to try to get men. She once took hers kids for a planned visit on Christmas eve, and instead of doing something fun with them she took them to meet some skeevey man she said she was going to marry and then told them NOT to tell me. Unfortunately, no matter how awful she treated them they were so loyal to her…especially her daughter. My niece told so many lies about me that my neighbors barely talk to me, she told outrageous lies about her teachers and I believed her, until years later she told me she lied and would just have this evil little smirk on her face. I could go on forever…but some things are just so traumatic to even admit to myself let alone someone else…plus I am still afraid of her..she is the type of person who could find out that I was blogging about her and before I know it she would get even.
Anyway, woman sociopaths are so awful and with children involved it is even more so.
khatalyst,
I really enjoyed your post. I think it was very insightful. Personally, I think genetics play a stronger role than environment. My socio husband comes from a very nice family. On a scale of 1 to 10 I would rate them a 7. They were nurturing and very focused on raising their kids. My husband has absolutely no reports of neglect or abuse. His father was fairly authoritarian, but also very involved in his children’s lives.
From what my husband and his mother say, I think my husband was a good kid. He was the oldest of three and a very sweet and nurturing big brother, especially to his next oldest sibling. Trouble started later. He was an incorrigible teenager, always lying, partying, ditching school, smoking pot, doing the stupidest things. His mom used to confront him about smoking pot but he would always deny it even though his clothes reeked of the stuff. Would tell his mom she was paranoid. He was so defiant his father actually gave up on him. Washed his hands of him and even stopped talking to him. If my husband entered a room his father was in, his father would get up and leave.
I don’t think my husband ever matured beyond 16 (and a horrible 16-year-old at that). He just honed his skills of deception. He’s highly intelligent, brilliant really, and can mimic emotion so convincingly, I sometimes still think he’s sincere.
And his son’s the same way. I always knew his son was a liar. As a matter of fact, I diagnosed him as a sociopath years ago when he was still living at home. (I didn’t see the same thing in my husband for many years.) My stepson was 12 when my husband and I got together. Stepson had a more unstable childhood than my husband, but I don’t think he suffered terrible abuse. He always had people around him who cared.
Mong,
Back in September my socio husband was going to try to get a restraining order against me. It was a do-or-die moment for him and the woman he had planned to leave me for. Since I had figured everything out, I was complicating matters and he saw a restraining order as a way to prove to his gf that he was serious about wanting to be with her.
Of course the restraining order would have been completely bogus. I saw the papers he filled out and they were all lies. He claimed I showed up at his work to harass him when the truth was that I showed up at the hospital he works at because my daughter had an appointment and he followed us, not vice-versa.
Also he claimed I stalked him after he got off work late one night. Truth is during an argument we had on the phone, he said something that I interpreted as a suicide threat, so I raced over to the place he was staying to make sure he was alive. On the paperwork he tried to make it sound like he feared for his life.
I know he would have gone through with trying to get the restraining order, and probably would have been successful since he is such a convincing liar, except for the fact that our daughter (17 years old) would have been a witness to his lies.
And it’s not that he cares about our daughter per se (although at the time I was still under the mistaken belief that he did), but that it would make him look bad if his daughter didn’t want to have anything to do with him, which of course would happen if he had gone through with it.
As it is, she doesn’t want anything to do with him anyway. But, not to worry, he’s got that covered. He tells people I have brainwashed her and turned her against him.
He tried to tell his mom that. I learned of this in an email she sent me. Whenever I find that he is lying about me to other people, I take immediate action. I wrote his mom back and told her like it is. I hadn’t wanted to involve her, but I am not going to stand by and let him manipulate others into thinking he’s a victim.
Another time I learned he told a friend of a friend that he really loves me, wants to come home, but that I just won’t believe him even though he is telling the truth.
I called him up pronto and told him that it’s bad enough all these years he’s made me think it’s all in my head, but now he is trying to make other people think it’s all in my head? I told him I will not stand for that and if I hear one more thing like that I would call his girlfriend’s soon-to-be ex-husband (who has threatened to kill my husband if he ends up with this guy’s wife) and let him know everything I’ve learned.
I know my situation is different from most because I discovered his plot before it was hatched. I have some leverage. If it weren’t for that, if it weren’t for the negative fallout for himself, I know my husband would stop at nothing. I now see that he’s utterly ruthless. Someone on another thread said something about us having to be somewhat sociopathic ourselves in dealing with our sociopaths. I think that is true. I realized many months ago, just after I started to discover all his deceptions, that the playing field had been way too unlevel, and that I needed to throw away my old rules when it came to dealing with him. He only took advantage of my trusting and trustworthy nature and I knew that to protect myself and my daughter, in a way I had to beat him at his own game.
I decided then, that if it suited my purposes, I would lie to my husband, and would do so without compunction. Doing that a few times, I don’t see how anyone can live that way. My God, keeping track of lies is so stressful. I guess to a psychopath, though, its second nature and even if they get caught in a lie they are quick with the cover-up, the bullshit story, they quickly regain their equilibrium and off they go with their lying sorry-ass selves again.
I think of these people as puppeteers. They create stage-plays out of life. Pathos and comedy – the opposite masks they don and remove with equal ease. True empathy is beyond their reach or understanding. Their victims are the puppets they play with – this being the only way they can approach some semblance of real life. They are hollow manipulators who have a need to experience some form of emotional connection through watching others who have roles in their play of the moment.
Like any other under-developed personality e.g. the two-year old thwarted in some minor way, they are dangerously vindictive – until some other more interesting play takes their interest. If you are still on their mind, beware. They don’t like being beaten – or ignored.
I would be interested to know if any research has been done where a real-time brain-scan is done whilst a person is experiencing some emotion…
Bobbie,
Interesting you should ask that question the brain scan data have revealed vindictive emotions in people with psychopathic traits. The frontal lobe pleasure centers light up when they see someone they dislike getting punished.