A woman who married and had children with two different sociopathic men wrote us this week. Her story and questions are timely since they allow me to mention another upcoming book, the conference Donna and I attended last weekend and to discuss vindictiveness.
It seems most women who have children with sociopaths end up with the sociopaths walking out on their children as well as the women, leaving the survivors to mop up and struggle to understand what happened on their own. From what I understand of sociopaths, the prevalent attitude they seem to behave as if they “don’t care” about anything except doing what benefits them”¦ (she told her story of marriage, children, custody battles and vindictive sociopaths)”¦ So, is vindictiveness a trait typically found in sociopaths or are these guys merely trying to maintain or regain their power and it just happens to look like vindictiveness on the surface? These guys have definitely expressed some serious rage, especially after losing as spectacularly as they did when they tried to take custody and prevent me from moving. Is anger an emotion sociopaths feel when they don’t get their own way? Do they ever “get over” it?
Many women tend to repeatedly pick sociopaths as partners
There are many women who have relationships with more than one sociopathic man. Sometimes children result from one or all of the relationships, since sociopaths like to father a lot of children. (My son’s father has 7 children I know about.) The resultant children carry the sociopath’s genes and are exposed to the sociopath’s fathering behavior.
Sociopathic/psychopathic men are at least 4 times more common than sociopathic women. The interpersonal love-relationship patterns are the means by which sociopaths replicate themselves and perpetuate sociopathy within our society. It is very important, then, to understand women who love sociopathic men. Is there anything different about them? Are they drawn to sociopaths because of prior abuse? Is it simply that sociopaths con them and they are especially gullible? These are tough questions for those of us who have had relationships with sociopathic men, but we have to ask them. The stakes are too high for everyone for us to avoid asking and answering these questions. Sandra L. Brown, M.A., and I recently conducted a survey/study that has addressed these questions and more. Stay tuned because a book with our initial findings is nearly complete. The results are enlightening and freeing.
Batterers often win custody of children
Last weekend Donna and I attended a conference, the Battered Women’s Custody Conference. This conference is held every year and so plan on attending next year if you missed it. The conference addresses one end of the spectrum of sociopaths—sociopathic men who are physically violent. It is incredible the courts often give children over to these sociopaths! Batterers are a little different from the sociopaths most of us know. These sociopaths have been referred to as secondary psychopaths, as opposed to the primary psychopaths we are most familiar with.
Primary verses secondary psychopathy
Secondary psychopaths are more insecure (than are primary psychopaths) about the status and power they so desire. Whereas primary psychopaths are grandiose and feel confident in their supremacy, secondary psychopaths are always on the lookout for threats to their status. They are also prepared to meet status threats with physical violence. Secondary psychopaths have more problems with impulse control than primary psychopaths. They also tend to be more emotional, displaying more anger. I think the average perpetrator of domestic violence fits the profile of a secondary psychopath very well.
There are other minor differences between secondary and primary psychopaths, but the similarities between them are more noteworthy than the differences. Both primary and secondary psychopaths are unable to love, have poor impulse control and impaired moral reasoning. Genetics play a substantial role in the development of both, and it is not true that one is environmental and the other genetic, as is commonly believed.
Sociopathic fathers
The parenting behavior of sociopaths has not been thoroughly studied. In my opinion the reason for this is the belief held by many researchers and clinicians that sociopaths abandon their young. This belief is related to another belief—that sociopaths are incapable of attachment. These two fallacies have stood in the way of efforts to eliminate this disorder and the suffering of victims. First of all, to those who hold on to the second misconception, If sociopaths are incapable of attachment, why do they engage in stalking? Scientists measure attachment as the tendency to seek proximity to a specific special other. Is not stalking the ultimate manifestation of attachment behavior? Sociopaths often verbally report they love others. Let’s take this to be a reflection of a longing for specific people, then we can start to understand sociopaths.
The feeling of longing
The feeling of longing sociopaths have is related to the fact that certain people in their lives have previously been a source of pleasure. We tend to get attached to things and people that have brought us pleasure in the past. There are three social pleasures: affection, dominance and sex, and possibly a separate fourth, parenting. Although sociopaths may experience a modicum of affection, the primary pleasure they derive from relationships is associated with power as opposed to love. When a sociopath says, “I love you,” he means he greatly enjoys the pleasure of possessing you and having power over you. SO how dare you question his love!
Children are also possessions sociopaths enjoy having dominion over. Part of the enjoyment of parenting they have is the prospect of turning, particularly sons, into miniature versions of themselves. For this reason, any money that the court orders your sociopath to give his children is not worth the trade off. If your sociopath will give up his possessions for a price, pay him off and be done with him. If the sociopath succeeds at his goal of turning his sons into miniature versions of himself, you will live your entire life surrounded by sociopaths, you will never escape and have peace/love.
Vindictiveness
Sociopaths are by nature extremely vindictive! Vindictiveness comes from the power/dominance system in our brains. Scientific studies show that sociopathic people derive great pleasure from revenge. Revenge is a very primitive emotion that evolved to ensure enforcement of social reciprocity. It evolved before the capacity for love. We know this because of studies of chimpanzees. Chimpanzees are very vindictive and vengeful when a comrade fails to reciprocate, and their capacity for love has not evolved much. It is only the threat of revenge that induces chimpanzees to cooperate with each other, because they do not have love bonds that motivate cooperation. When a chimpanzee shares his food, he does not likely get a warm fuzzy feeling inside, instead he knows that others will later do the same for him. If others fail to reciprocate, revenge is always taken.
Thankfully most humans receive a double reward when they cooperate with each other and a double punishment when they fail to cooperate. The double reward is the inherent pleasure in knowing we did a good for someone else, and the thought that good might someday be reciprocated. The double punishment is the guilt over harming someone and the fear that the harm will be reciprocated. Please hear me, sociopaths are like chimpanzees. They do not feel good when they do good for someone, they thus expect immediate reciprocity. They do not feel bad when they hurt someone, but they are smart enough to know revenge might follow. This is why prison is an occupational hazard for them. They also do not comprehend the guilt other people feel. This is why it is important to them to mete out huge punishments toward everyone who has offended them.
When you have to deal with sociopaths, be ever mindful that these individuals are devoid of pleasure from goodness and devoid of guilt over evil. Although they take advantage of other’s emotions, they have it in their minds that the rest of the human race is like them. They therefore feel it is necessary to get revenge in order to reduce the likelihood of future attacks on their status, power and possessions.
Louise, if you handed over hard evidence to the proper authorities, what would be your motive? To see that the jackass faces consequence? To possibly protect anyone else from being targeted? Or, a little of both? Most people make anonymous reports because they’re afraid – I’m included in this, okay? They’re afraid of being identified and, perhaps, suffering even more harm from a spath. They’re afraid of ridicule – there’s nothing more humiliating than victim-blame, and it happens ALL of the time. They’re also afraid of having to testify – telling the facts, under oath, and telling some of those facts may cause us to look not-so-nice, ourselves, or even “stoopit.” Fear is a driving force, here.
Now, justice is served when someone who harms another person experiences consequences for their own actions. If that person has done something illegal, then it’s Against The Law. I reported my own son for Stolen Valor, and I gave my name, number, and address – nothing was ever done about what he did. So, he hasn’t faced consequences EVEN THOUGH I provided voluminous physical evidence of his forgeries, etc. Same with the exspath. I have submitted about 600 pages of documentation that include bank photocopies of his forgeries AND his own signature that he wrote on my personal drafts. Okay. So, all of this information and hard documentation is out there, and nothing is going to happen to either my son or the exspath.
I did what I thought was Right – to alert authorities and agencies and attorneys of what both of these people had done. Whether or not they face consequences for their actions is completely, utterly, and totally out of my hands. I do not have control over what someone does with any of the evidence. That’s where the surrender lies for me: I have done what I could to report “alleged” Federal Crimes committed by both parties, and to attempt to recover some of the funds that were “allegedly” stolen from me via forgeries and coercion. That’s all that I can do. I can’t force blood from a turnip.
Sunflower, your ID suits you. You stand tall and radiate joyous energy. And, you’ve had one HELL of a journey!
I believe that I can re-wire my mind and the way that I perceive and function. It’s been somewhat successful in the past year, but it’s been a serious challenge, you betcha. And, counseling shouldn’t be a privilege anywhere in the world, but it seems that it is. I would have to drive a 90-mile round-trip to even meet with A Counselor, let alone vet one out to see if they’re a proper fit. So….yeah…..this is the place where I’m finding the most healing.
The issues that the “Healing The Shame” book address are, indeed, painful and frightening to address. Oh, yes….they are. But, after a span of time, it’s not as scary as I thought because I’m really not “alone.” My inner child is always there with me. Some days, she’s a delight and a joy. Other days, she’s in dire need of comfort. Still, other days, she’s hell-on-wheels and needs a firm talking-to. It’s a journey……a long journey with lots of pitfalls.
And, this site means that not one of us is really “alone.” Yes, we walk our Healing Path on our own, but there are those around us who are there to catch our elbows if we stumble and help us back onto our feet if we fall.
Brightest and most sincere blessings of love and comfort. 2013 will be a Year Of Healing. And, it’s going to be the Year Of Loving Myself – each of us is worthy of love – we are love-able (able to be loved). We are valid. And, we are not alone.
Truthspeak:
Yes, a little bit of both. I certainly do not want him hurting anyone else. I could stop that from happening any more if I came clean. Of course it would make me feel good for him to face some consequences. I am just afraid that if I would do something, would I feel the same or even worse??
You are right…I cannot control what the powers that be do with the information I give them, but I really do not understand why they didn’t do anything? This was a major allegation. I don’t think they WANTED to do anything. It’s a major undertaking and they really don’t want to do it. They don’t want to have to fire an executive, blah, blah, blah. I think they would rather ignore it, but ignoring it is WRONG. Why do they even have strict rules in place if they are not going to enforce them?
So in essence you are saying to do nothing…that they will get what is coming to them in due time?
Louise, Sunflower, and others About Vengence:
I wanted the world to know my spath with his mask off. I have been SO condemned and abused by GOOD people who thought they were doing the right thing, to defend this outstanding pillar of the community, who’s family settled the area, and who’s name was fixed to streets, rivers, bridges, towns, etc. But I simply could not get heard, and in trying to get heard, I made myself an easier target.
It’s been one year since my divorce (actually 31 Dec!) and the relief from the stress has been SOOOO healing. One thing to pass along to you: Revenge is easy. You don’t have to do ANYTHING. It is simply letting HIM being HIMSELF.
Will he harm others? Yes. But it’s not in my power to prevent that, accepting what I can not change is part of my recovery. My obligation to society is to inform authorities of known crimes. Otherwise, my obligation is to be the best human being I can be, and why I chose to return to LF, to offer a different perspective that I thought missing from some discussions.
Louise,
you wrote :” So in essence you are saying to do nothing”that they will get what is coming to them in due time? ”
If i think about my past experiences with such people, the answer is YES they do, but maybe not in the way one would wish. They are so self sabotaging. They become so self obsessed and way to confident when they’ve gotten away with things for a while that sooner or later they mess up big time. The thing is, you might never get to know about it …
Truthspeak, thank you for your kind and encouraging words. I believe you are right 🙂
Louise, I’m not suggesting to do something or not to do something. This is an issue that only you can resolve for yourself. My point was that my son and the exspath BOTH “allegedly” did things that were not only illegal, but amounted to Federal Crimes. I did do something to alert the proper authorities, to no avail. So……there you go.
Eventually, both my son and the exspath will experience consequences for SOMEthing that they do. It may not be with regards to what I know that they’ve done, but they’ll shoot themselves in their collective feet, at some point.
What I believe that I wanted (and, STILL want) to see is the exspath facing consequences for what HE did to ME. That will not be the case. And, I can’t make it happen, even if I had 600 more pages of hard evidence. He’s suddenly found Jezuz and religion, and he can really act that part well……at least, he used to be able to. And, everybody loves him because he’s such a “Good Time Charlie.” He has presented the most upstanding and meek facade, and he is 180 degrees the other way. He is the walking talking “180 Rule” example.
So, think that it’s a “normal” desire to want to see someone face consequences for what they’ve done – hell, EVERY victim of a crime feels this way, don’t they?
Brightest blessings!
KatyDid, congratulations on the anniversary of your FREEDOM!!!!!! And, you are 100% spot-on about not being responsible to “warn the world,” so to speak.
Brightest blessings and TOWANDA to you!
Thank you Truthspeak.
It amazed me how many of my anxieties fell away and how I was able to make sense of confusion that I had held for YEARS. No more gobbledeegook interrupting my reasoning!
I did want to validate peoples desire/feelings to tell/warn others about the spath. Unfortunately such desire can turn into a HUGE quagmire of invalidation, and we who are vulnerable can end up participating in making things WORSE for ourselves. I think doing as you did, reporting any illegal activity, and then letting those who are assigned the job, be responsible with what is done with the information. Otherwise, we have SO much on our plate to get ourselves to a healthy place of acceptance and recovery should be the priority over saving those who REFUSE/WILL NOT hear. It’s been a huge long process for me, and I have benchmarks of success: the day I realized that I did not think of HIM every waking moment of the day or dream of him every night… was A HUGE breakthrough.
I want to encourage others to focus on emotional health, there will be time for “revenge” later; but I found I no longer NEED others to judge what he did to me, I am too busy enjoying my life.
ps I do like your moniker. When I was in the throes, I used to pray EVERY night “God please show me the truth and give me the strength to bear it”. TRUTH WILL SET US ALL FREE. Blessings back at ya.
Truthspeak:
I know only I can decide what to do about it. The longer time goes on the more I lean towards just letting it go, but I still think he needs to be reprimanded for what he did.
I’m sorry that your reporting also didn’t culminate in any action done…not sure what is wrong with this world.
I want to take a nap, but it’s already late. I still might.
In regards to revenge, I think it’s a losing proposition because it just turns us into them — which is what they wanted in the first place!
Our actions should reflect what is in our hearts, so first figure out what that is. Examine your motives and your feelings. Decide what you want to feel and work towards that.
The desire to protect others from the spath is very different from wanting revenge on the spath. It has more to do with justice. So we feel better when we do our part even if nothing comes of it. We know we tried. We don’t have to take on more responsibility than is ours but at least don’t become one more minion that keeps the spath’s secrets and enables him by keeping our mouths shut.
For myself, I went to the FBI several times. They didn’t believe me, but I did what I needed to do. At one point, it worked in my favor because I was talking to the FBI when one of the local cops was screaming and threatening me. I held the phone out to him and said, “I have the FBI on the line and they want to speak with you.” He turned around and fled into his house. LOL.
Last of all, just telling your story here, there and everywhere, is part of unveiling the abusers and their tactics. This is one way that we are protecting each other from the spaths, even if we aren’t able to protect others from one specific spath.