A reader wrote in with the following:
I have a question for you related to the sociopath and the therapeutic relationship, and how to regain trust in the therapeutic process when it appears to have failed you during the relationship.
I have been in therapy with a therapist I trust and have bonded with for more than two years, as well as in group therapy, most of which was also parallel to the duration of my marriage to a sociopath. For a short period of time, the sociopath was in therapy with me in order to try work out the issues in our marriage.
I am currently struggling to regain my trust in therapy, when I view it as having eroded the very instincts that were telling me to get out of the relationship and away from the sociopath by teaching me how to work on “my issues” in the relationship, to be more understanding, less demanding, less needy, etc.
I do not blame therapy for my getting into or even staying in the relationship (as obviously no one could have known he was a sociopath if even I didn’t), but I’m having trouble continuing to recognize its value when I feel like it was a primary force in suppressing the red flags that were popping up everywhere screaming for me to leave him, because it had me focusing on “my issues” and how my past was influencing me to assume negative traits in him that were perhaps more tied to “my parents” or “family of origin” or to his natural family of origin issues.
I have tried to bring these issues and concerns up in my therapy, and am told that there is no way that anyone could have known, and that my rage needs to be directed towards the sociopath only.
But my point isn’t really rage or anger at her or the group for not seeing the truth, but really just in how to learn to value the process again, when in at least one case, it was reinforcing the same mind games he was playing with me.
I hope I’m being clear here and that this makes sense. I do honestly value and understand the necessity of therapy and would like to regain this trust, but am increasingly confused by how to do so given the doubts this situation has raised.
I would love some guidance or thoughts on this, or just to know if anyone else has experienced it and how they’ve coped.
Dr. Leedom answers
Thank you for taking the time to share your story and this important question. I have some very strong opinions about therapy and so forewarn you ahead of time.
First, I believe that anything offered by professionals, that is supposed to treat an illness, should have proven efficacy. In this regard, I hold psychotherapy to the same standard as I would medication. Psychotherapy should have proven benefits or it should not be sold. Sometimes people would opt to take a medication that does not have proven benefit because they feel good doing so. In that case, a doctor can tell the patient, “Here try this, it is not proven and may have side effects, but you might feel better.” In the same vein, if a therapist uses techniques that are unproven, he/she should be required to say, “This therapy may make you feel good but there is no scientific evidence that it works.”
Psychotherapy with proven benefit?
The above comment out of the way, there are psychotherapies with proven benefits. Therapy that works has goals and is of brief duration. If you are in therapy, work with your therapist to develop very specific goals. Wanting to feel better is NOT a specific goal. Specific goals often surround the symptoms of disorders. For depression, goals would be to improve sleep patterns, increase activities like self care and house work, and to decrease the dysfunctional thoughts that go along with the depression. Another goal for therapy could be to begin and maintain a satisfying friendship.
In regard to an intimate relationship, the goals of the therapy should also be articulated. The goal should be to increase loving behavior and to decrease negative behavior. If there is ongoing physical abuse, couples therapy is not considered acceptable. If there is psychological abuse, it has to stop before therapy can begin.
In general, therapists should not give advice. Then they are not responsible if someone stays in a relationship with a sociopath. That being said, having a vision for a functional relationship and a goal to attain function within 4 or 5 sessions should weed out sociopaths. Similarly, substance abuse has to stop before “therapy” can begin.
There are two specific therapies with proven efficacy CBT and DBT. DBT is a type of CBT.
What is CBT?
Cognitive-Behavior Therapy is devoted to the relief of human suffering using methods that have been shown to work. The latest in scientific advances are used to design personalized treatments in a culturally sensitive manner. In CBT the therapist and client work together to determine the goals for therapy, the agenda for each session, home practice between sessions, the usefulness of each intervention, and how long to continue therapy. In CBT the client does the work! The therapist is a facilitator.
What is DBT?
Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) is a comprehensive treatment specifically developed for individuals with impulsive and self-harm behaviors. These behaviors can include binge eating, destructive relationships, self-cutting, frequent suicidal thoughts, urges, or attempts, and other self-destructive tendencies. Many individuals with these behavior patterns also meet criteria for personality disorders.
DBT combines cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) strategies with Eastern mindfulness (Zen) practices and involves both individual therapy and group skills training. Clinical research has consistently found DBT to be effective in reducing self-destructive behavior patterns and in optimizing ability to cope more effectively.
Some links:
Guidelines for choosing a CBT therapist.
Is DBT for you?
If you are in long term therapy and feel supported, and the therapy makes you feel good, don’t leave because of these recommendations. I have written this post for people who are questioning the therapy they are receiving. Most importantly, the joke about the light bulb is no joke. How does a psychotherapist change a light bulb? First it has to want to change.
Part of the problem, too, is that most therapists do not understand about Ps. They think they are all the Hollywood stereotypes.
I spent far too many years recovering as an adult child of an alcoholic (my father) when the issue was more accurately an adult child of a P (my mother.) NOBODY ever recognized that my P sister was an issue, although there were a few who did think the relationship between her and our mother was weird.
Oxy, I had one therapist, dripping in gold jewelry with his BMW parked out front, tell me, “I’ve never dealt with adult children before, but maybe you could teach me.” I’m supposed to teach him? Isn’t he supposed to have the knowledge and skills to help me? When did I become his instructor? This guy was clearly in the field only for the money.
I had another therapist say to me, “Don’t you people have something called a Higher Power?” You people?
And don’t forget the therapist, a former oncological nurse, who was so sure that I was a pathelogical liar that she called my parents into her office to see if my P sister had really put me through what she did when she threw me out of her house for not being supportive of her distress over my being diagnosed with breast cancer while pregnant and if the medical providers really did what they did to me. My parents reassured her that everything that I was saying was the truth.
Then there was the social worker in my son’s first psych hospital who told him that he could decide for himself when he grows up if alcoholism is an issue in the family. After I had spent years getting both of us help because of that very issue. Those mental health experts didn’t count? Ms. Social Worker knew our case better and had more expertise than them?
And the psychologist in the second psych hospital who wanted to march my son in front of a judge to be declared a wayward child because “there was nothing else to do in his case.” Over my dead body. My son ran away overnight (it turned out to stay a friend’s) because he couldn’t cope with what was going on. The kid was suicidal out of fear over what the Ps had told him (scared him into) that would happen. That was the solution? Declaring him a criminal? We were paying how much for this?
Then there was my son’s therapist going from “we’ll take your son through to graduation together” one weeK and then having my son look through school catalogues for emotionally disturbed children then next AFTER I told him that my P’s sister’s daughter had been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder.
Then there was the outpatient place that refused to answer my questions about why my son’s therapist did that, which I had asked them to find out, and we walked in for a 11 AM appointment to be told by that shrink that my son’s therapist was terminating with my son at 2 PM that day. And spirit guide lady saying, “Don’t go there! Don’t show up! I don’t know what else your son’s therapist might do to your son.”
Know what happened? Exactly what I predicted. My son was reacting to catalysts. Take the catalysts (the Ps) away, and he’s a normal kid. OMG. I explained to him what they were, why they were doing that, and after going no contact with them (getting a restraining order on my P sister,) our lives calmed down. We THRIVED. Imagine that? Now my son has just finished his first year at his univesity with a 3.5 and was chosen to be a Resident Assistant (RA) next year.
I have had some decent help. One of the best told me not to trust a lot of therapists until I got to know them very well because at least 50% of them have never dealt with their own issues. They go into the field hoping to fix themselves through others.
I met another online who went through all the documents and emails pertaining to my son’s therapist and what my P sister and S mother did. She was a great help, seriously. She thought what my family did was “horrific” and what the others did was “unconscionable.” She got it.
Sky, I have been no contact with my family for about four years now. That takes care of them reading any emotions on my face although I wouldn’t mind if they saw what I was doing with my middle finger. 😉
And Oxy, yes, there have been singular events that are post and I have gotten help for those.
But as Dr. Leedom pointed out in her article, these people shouldn’t be making promises about what they can do without goals, guidelines, and definitions. And they shouldn’t be promising more than they can deliver. They are not the end all and be all.
Grace, what I meant about being “Post trauma” is that even though they may be lurking out there in the shadows and could conceivably pounce on us, we can’t let that knowledge of “there is a P out there that would like to get me” keep us in CONSTANT TRAUMA…that hyper allert state that won’t let us find peace and relax.
We can’t control their thoughts, plots or behaviors, but we can live in caution, NOT TERROR. The difference may be subtle but it is a big difference I have found.
Oh, I wasn’t looking it at that way. I agree with what you said, Oxy, 100%.
I don’t live in terror, I definitely live cautiously, but I get triggered easily when it comes to wondering about the safety of my son. That’s not the worst thing in the world. At least I care. I know my S mother wouldn’t care if something bad happened to me. She’d probably gloat over it.
The bottom line is I took back my life for me. And my son. He needs an emotionally healthy mother.
It was a legacy from the Ps that I was so easily dominated and looked to others for their opinions about my life.
My mother wouldn’t even take an opinion straight from me. She’s always add, “How do you know that? Did you get a professional opinion? What does so-and-so say/think about it?”
Of course this is invalidating me, which I could recognize. I just didn’t bring it far enough along. What I was failing to recognize was that this was also conditioning me to never trust my judgment and to always believe that somebody else had a better perspective on my life than I did. I do believe this how those who dominate gain control.
I wonder how many people even question why they would do that? Meaning let others tell them what to do as opposed to know that was conditioning left over from people who like to dominate and control?
I suspect that is an awareness that doesn’t come easily.
G1S, I suggest you read one of my favorite books if you have not read it “Games People Play” by Dr. Eric Berne. Berne talks about the internal states, the “internal parent” the “internal adult” and the internal Child. The parent is made up of two parts, the good and the bad, the critical and the nurturing. Some people have 90% critical and 10% nurturing and some vice versa…but the things the parent tells us “wash your face before you go to bed” help us to live life without having to think about and decide about every tiny thing we do each day. We just do it without examining why, it is just how things are done.
However, the critical tapes that the critical parent gives us of “you are no good” or “you are fat” or “you are stupid” are there in the back ground and they help form our view of ourselves and the world. We must get those tapes out, examine them with our adult minds, decide if they are valid or not, and if they are NOT valid, then we must hit the MUTE BUTTON.
Lots of my parental tapes are about “your feelings don’t matter” so that set me up to let others walk on me. Your tapes are different from mine but they are those background noises that we have to BECOME AWARE OF and then decide if they are valid or not. “Wash your face before you go to bed” is okay, I’ll keep that, “your feelings don’t matter” is NOT valid, I will mute that tape.
Berne’s descriptions of these “games” people play and the tapes that we have as back ground noise is very intersting. I recommend it to anyone seeking to better understand themselves and the results of our parental conditioning.
Very good advice. “live in caution, not terror” what I have found hard is dealing with the spath on a regular basis. It’s so hard not to live in terror knowing my three little angels are in her hands.
Will do, Oxy! That book sounds like it might be a big help to this brain that has to always know the reasons why and what is happening.
G1S You will see a lot of the 12-step wisdom in some of the “games” he describes and the triangle—victim/persecutor/rescuer stances—good ways of looking at how interactions between people can be classified as “games” with people trying to get a pay off of some kind. It may be a simple past time of “hello” and expect someone to respond “How are you?” but it may be more, and more and deeper pay offs and manipulations.
We have to keep from being caught in the games and keep from being either the victim, resucer or persecutor.
I had a therapist tell me one time “the ONLY legitimate “rescue” is to pull an unconscious man from a burning bujilding” and that is so true. I wish I had listened to her.
She told me once that I had the “thickest pair of rose colored glasses she had ever seen” I think she was right.
Hi all. A little off topic but very confused and hoping for advice. I know there is a lot of collective wisdom here.
P.s. I used dyingdad but have changed my name as I later realized, (thanks to the wise people here) it may not have been a wise choice in name.
Anyway, my dilemma.
I have had many problems with my ex and believe without a doubt she is a sociopath. However, our children live with her. I’m so sick of being used and taken advantage of by her. So recently, I decided to stop acting like everything was ok, like she always thinks it is, and go as close as I could to no contact with her. I told her I no longer wanted to discuss anything on a personal level with her, and to only discuss issues about the children. ever since then, she has once again resorted to using the children as pawns by restricting access and telephone access. I pay for her phone btw, for that purpose. Agreed to it in court when she asked the judge, under that condition. Now, for the last couple of days, I keep getting text messages from her. She wants to talk about “US”. This presents a couple of problems.
1) She is so manipulative. Especially at getting information out of people. She has a way of cornering you in a way I’ve never seen before. Within a couple of sentences, you end up stuck with admitting it, or dating nothing which is still admitting it. it truly is incredible. Trouble is, there are things I don’t want to admit yet. Luke my knowledge of her and aiming to get custody.
2) I would again be supply. I would again get a little more access, butt this would mean doing her countless favors. And even setting boundaries presents problems because when she encounters them, she will retaliate by using the kids. Access.
3) I know there is no way in hell she could manipulate me back into a relationship with her, but I am afraid of how all the negative emotions I have toward her may affect me. I truly hate this woman. Also, I’m afraid of how she will react when I reject her. (if that is her intention)
Any suggestions welcome. Thanks everyone.
God bless
W8ing4change – waaay better screen name.
you have a court order – if she is in contravention of your access agreement is this then a matter for the lawyers/ judge?
do you know about ‘our family wizard’? recommeded by many posters on lf: http://www.ourfamilywizard.com/ofw/
figure out that you deserve NOT to be manipulated, and remove your ego from it as much as you can. it can feel kinda delicious to know we are going to try to fight back – but it can also make us want to show the shiny secrets. become a wall…no cracks, impervious.
W8ing4change aka dyingdad
First your # 1 is what I refer to as having a conversation while sticking your head in a blender. Your words go in, making complete sense, then they get chopped up and spit back out at you. Pretty soon you actually end up apologizing for something she did to you. – Sound right?
#2 & # 3 – look up Sky’s gray rock technique – study it carefully – I think it is perfect for situations like yours – It is something like the Jerry Seinfeld show – a lot of talk about absolutely nothing – she will have your attention, but you will not supply her with anything – you will be so boring you won’t have to set boundaries because she won’t want to have much to do with you – she will retaliate less and less using the kids because you won’t let her know she is bugging you by using them – you will turn her attention towards something else that you “pretend” means a lot to you (your new shiny thing – whatever you decide it is)
You won’t show negative emotions because you won’t show any emotion at all. You don’t need to be afraid of how she will react when you reject her because you are going to let her be the one that ultimately rejects you.
Don’t tell her you “no longer want to discuss anything on a personal level” – just don’t, change the subject, talk about some meaningless dribble, usually about her, what she is doing etc.
Try to make her believe that it would benefit HER if you spent time with the kids, how tired she must be and how much she could use a break. In other words hand her a load of BS directly to her ego.
Sky explains the whole idea behind this and how to accomplish it. It takes some practice, but at least for me it works like a charm. Look up her article here on LF, see what you think.
Good luck
Just read one step – our family wizard is a great tool