The first question victims of love fraud ask concerns themselves and is generally something like, “Why is this so hard for me mentally?” The second question concerns the perpetrator, “What is wrong with him/her?” Many seek answers to these questions on the internet and in the popular psychology literature. A person looking for answers in these sources is just as likely to read about narcissism as he/she is to read about sociopathy. Thus the confusion between narcissism and sociopathy begins.
When trying to understand the difference (if any) between narcissists and sociopaths, it is important to understand why we have psychiatric diagnoses in the first place. We have diagnostic categories because people go to professionals seeking help for their emotional/psychological issues. The problem is that people who are grandiose, exploit others, lack empathy, and apparently have no conscience are unlikely to seek mental health treatment. Therefore, people with these symptoms are poorly understood. This is also the basic reason why this set of symptoms has been labeled both narcissism and sociopathy.
To further the confusion for victims of love fraud, a psychologist, Millon, has described the amorous narcissist. Such people are charming, articulate, charismatic and emotionally exploitative of their lovers. The amorous narcissist, like Don Juan, seeks conquest in his relationships. A Lovefraud reader commenting on another post has provided the best example of an amorous narcissist I have seen, yet she (correctly) calls him a sociopath:
I was completely taken in by a sociopath over a year ago. I had never met anyone who was so attentive, charming, complimentary, good looking”¦ oh, the list goes on. I felt I had not only met Mr. Right, but Mr. Perfect. This was a very cultured and well educated man. Unlike the stereotypical sociopath, he holds a good job -can even be considered a “captain of industry”. We live in different cities, so it was even easier for him to fool me. He would call me 2-3 times a day – send text messages, write e-mails. I wondered sometimes how he got the time to do all this. But it was almost impossible for ME to get him on the phone. He said he was at a meeting, at a business dinner etc.
He also seemed to not have many good friends. But all the people he mentioned were women – some one who went to the symphony with him – and had for a long time, someone who was a biking partner etc. He said his friendships with these people were built around common interests, which I thought was fair enough.
After 6 months and visits back and forth, his romantic speil was not as effusive, which I thought normal. But I also began noticing a lot of inconsistencies and lies. I caught him out on a lie about where he was – he said he was in one city on work and it turned out that he was in another on vacation – and I knew it had to be with another woman! Anyway, i expressed my distrust and he accused me of being suspicious for no reason. He said I had a mental illness and should have my head examined. I got so blisteringly angry when he said this that I told him that I would prove to him that my suspicions were warranted. I embarked on a detective spree and uncovered 4 women who he was courting the same way. One was the official girlfriend in the city where he lived. The others were mistress-type girlfriends. I spoke with all of them. And then I presented him with the evidence. He did not have much to say other than that he had “done everything for me, shown me a good time, bought me gifts”¦” and did not know why I was upset. I know now that there are others. It is like he needs to get all the women he meets to fall in love with him.
Generally speaking, the term narcissist is less pejorative than the term sociopath. The reason for this is that some professionals view the behavior of narcissists as stemming from “low self esteem.” Thus, people feel sorry for narcissists, “He/she wouldn’t do that if he/she didn’t have such low self esteem.” Many sociopaths also recognize that narcissists are more highly regarded than are sociopaths, and so state, “I’m not a sociopath, I’m just a narcissist!”
A close friend of mine who has been on a quest for answers about the man who perpetrated love fraud against her came to the legitimate conclusion that the perpetrator is a narcissist. We have had many discussions about her situation. What bothered me about her description of this man as a narcissist was that it seemed to be part of an ongoing effort not to accept his inherently evil nature. If perpetrators are only trying to bolster their low self esteem, they can still be “good.” It may also be that it is easier to accept being victimized if the perpetrator is a narcissist. The reality that we have spent years of our lives loving an evil sociopath is truly difficult to accept.
So what is the difference between a narcissist and a sociopath? Generally speaking narcissists are less impulsive and higher functioning than are sociopaths. Both narcissists and sociopaths have a severe disorder of the Inner Triangle. Both are not capable of love, and have problems with moral reasoning. In fact, many experts say that a condition called “pathological narcissism” is the core problem that results in sociopathy/psychopathy. In conclusion then, the answer to our question is, “To a victim of love fraud, there is no difference between a narcissist and a sociopath.”
“done everything for me, shown me a good time, bought me gifts— Makes you wonder if there is some sort of handbook they all learn by heart. Every one I’ve ever heard of has said that.
I originally thought my ex was “just a narcissist”. I too felt it was something he was a bit to be pitied for. In describing his behavior in a forum about that, someone suggested I should check out sociopath behavior. I have known other narcissists, and I’m not sure they have much different from the parasite variety of sociopath. I think of him as a narcisistic sociopath. After living with him for 14 years, I don’t believe the low esteem bit, at least not for all of them. In talking to other victims of narcissists, they don’t seem to be any less emotionally or financially destructive.
In some of his last words to me, after verbally savaging me, he claimed he was with me because he was a nice guy who just liked to help people. He never helped ANYONE unless he was asked to, and someone was looking so he would get credit for being such a “good guy”. He comes across as very sweet and innocent, reasonable and loving and honest. So much so that even though I saw his behavior, I just considered them “character flaws”. I am only alive because other people started wondering about the difference between what he said and how he behaved. As it is, he has devastated my life, and I’m not sure I will recover. The night before he left me, he told me how much he loved me and that he would never leave me. Once confronted with his behavior, it was like someone flipped a switch. His mother died unexpectedly the same day (later, yes, I have to wonder, he would not have been able to explain away what he did) He showed no remorse at leaving me disabled, so sick I could barely walk and with no money. I adored his mother, and he showed no emotion at all about her death although I was in tears. He was just angry because I had confronted him about his affair earlier that day. He also completely abandoned my daughter, who had considered him her father since she was 16 and he always claimed to love.
He did tell my friends that his affair was just a mistake (huh? ) and that if I needed anything to call him. However, he never told ME that or showed support in any way. He actually managed to convince her he still loved me and that I had thrown him out and was in the wrong! All for show. I really think he believes it himself, justifies what ever he does somehow. He really believes he is perfect, although he would never admit to that. His conquests aren’t about money or sex, it’s about who will keep his ego stroked. He targets women who have illnesses.
He tampered with my medications to the point of nearly killing me, maybe that’s the cross over, not caring if they cause someone’s death. But you can kill someone’s life without killing them physically, and I don’t think there’s much to choose between them on that point.
my ex was an amorous narcissistic sociopath, he was engaged to 5 women in 2 states, simultaneously. The first give away is when a man says he has a women “bicycling friend” and a woman “ski friend” and a woman “jogging friend”
and a woman “tennis friend” and a woman “business friend” or a woman “associate” or a woman “assistant”
These are all “buzz words” that sex addict swingers and amourous narcissistic sociopaths use to cover up the plethora of illicit sex relations they are engaged in. Usually the narcissist has no real job other then manipulating and using the defrauded women in his life. Some women are used for money, some exploited professionally, others used for sex and still others used for power over, ego feed, the don juan conquest syndrome. These men spread deadly stds and deadly aids and women will not find the suavay amorous narcissistic sociopath so easy to forgive when she is diagnosed with a life threatening std. These men are deadly frauds, felons and murderers, they murder by spreading stds surreptistiously. I believe that, murder by std spreading, is the core of thier onion, the true goal of the amourous narcissistic sociopath.
BTW – gay marriages were blocked and banned in usa by insurance companies. Insurance analysts realized sex addict homosexual men would marry other homosexual men, insure them and kill thier partners with aids to collect insurance cash payout after insurance cash payout on thier legal insurable homosexual lovers/gay marriage partners. Some homosexual men who have dozens to hundreds of homosexual male sexual partners a year would have no problem marrying, insuring and murdering with aids, one after another, dozens of other male homosexual marriage partners.
The insurance actuarials, companies, saw this and knew same sex homosexual marriages could not be legalized and underwriiten by the insurance industry. Too much risk and loss to the insurers.
note-not all homosexual males are promiscuous, just the sex addicted pathological ones.
I just found this blog accidentaly, looking up information that may help me explain what I am feeling. I am married to a man who is a medically retired airline pilot. We have been together 5 years, married for a 3. There is so much to ask about I can’t possibly fit it all here. This man, first of all has been good to me and my 2 girls for the most part. He gives me jewels on birthdays, but always in front of one of my girls or other relative who doesn’t have the means for such things. He is one of those people who have been everywhere, done everything as being a ski instructor, been in british special forces,(that one really annoys me), owned a tour bus company, the list goes on. According to him everything he owns is the best whilst anything anyone else has is crappy. He is very intelligent and sociable. But no one can say anything to him without being explained to, corrected, or made fun of. He is just ALwAYS RIGHT in his mind. So now, I’ve gotten tired of even talking about the most trivial of things to him. He has purchased a few “collector cars” over the last few years. Like a Corvette he baught on e bay for say7000. He tells everyone how he has a car worth 40000 dollars. He throws around how we are millionares. It’s not true, and it’s so embarrasing to me. And the sex, when we got together at first I thought it was great but it is like he wants it when he wants it and he is very dominant. He also is attracted to my daughter and lets us both know about it. I had a fit one day when he touched her breast. He was saying we were crazy and too prudent, and that some men have the daughters and moms at the same time. I told him not in his lifetime, and if he touched her again he can color me gone. His second wife has some thing in their divorce come up about he made sexual advances to her cousin or something. His next wife died of a stroke at 56, they were seperated and he and I were seeing each other. One day he was so distraught, especially talking to one of the friends of hers or relatives on the phone, but the very next day he wanted to screw my brains out. It doesn’t show the normal lot of emotions like we do. Anyway, I’ve been getting scared he might try to take some of my money so I have been slowly gathering and protecting my personal effects. I’m probably rambling, but as I said there is just so much, and my head is filled with trying to figure out what is going on and what to do about it, The only time I’m not thinking about it is if i’m asleep.The stories he tells, he has made money on everything he buys. Although I can’t prove it, i think not making a mistake is not humanly possible. I can’t find proof on anything because he is in the house all the time that i am.I’m not sure what to do next. I’m 47 years old, I don’t want to have to start over again! I know this, if I can’t work through this, NO MORE MEN!
Do you love this man? The incident with your daughter is very serious. How old is she? Please consider that you may alienate your daughters from yourself if you stay in this relationship.
this is the 3rd time I have tried to reply, I try again. I don’t love him like I used to. My daughters are 27 and 25 and niether have ever lived with us, they are on their own, but my daughters and I are very close, it was VERY easy for me to tell him to jump off when the incident happened. This is all new to me. Until i ran across this site, I thought this was just his particular personality, I didn’t know it was a menal illness. I have so much to ask, I will have to do it in spurts.
Loserchoser, just my opinion from what I have been through and what I know others have been through, but protect yourself, get your money together and GET OUT. It won’t get better. Touching your daughter and telling you the bit about some men having mother’s and daughters at the same time is typical. Chances are extremly likely with his past history that he WILL try to touch your daughter again, he sees nothing wrong with it.
He sounds an awful lot like my X. He never did anything nice unless it was public, or he knew I would go on about how wonderful he was to other people. Told me a hard luck story about how he lost his business before he met me, after he left I discovered paperwork showing he had continuously ordered things then never paid for them. I thought this guy was the sweetest, most honest person I’d ever met. I didn’t feel worthy of him. He was sexually manipulative, although not in the way your husband is. That seems to be a common theme, that one way or another they control the sex life. It starts out great but over time disintergrates, usually leaving the victim feeling like something the cat dragged in and that no one will ever want again.
I spent waaaay too much time trying to figure out what was going on. It was impossible, because what was going on was not sane. Stop worrying about it, you are unhappy, once you are away from him you may even find out you don’t love him as much as you think you do. Once we are out of their clutches and start seeing things from the outside, it’s a lot easier. I may still be obsessed with mine, but I sure know I don’t love him any more.
I have to say that I think the comment here on narcissism (NPD) and antisocial personality disorder (APD) are weak. My own father has NPD and having read alot about it I think the biggest difference between NPD and APD is that APD sufferers do not suffer from delusions of grandeure like NPD sufferers. In many ways an NPD person is more dangereous than an APD person since he/she is obsessed with power/beauty/fame etc and will use you as a tool to achieve that. However, both groups as I understand it are “psychopathic” in the sense that neither exhibit any capacity for empathy, sympathy or remorse. Neither of them have any internal boundaries and all people to them are mere objects
looserchooser, incidentally – the fact that your husband is attracted to your daughter sounds (and acts upon it in some way) is very symptomatic of NPD – most NPD sufferers are autoerotic – ie they are sexually attracted to their own inflated self delusion. This is manifested in the fact that they live out this attraction through extensions of themselves – ie their children. Incest is often common in NPD sufferers. Anyway, worth considering. Anyway, I’m not an expert on the matter or a trained psychiatrist, so don’t take my word on the matter, but let it at least raise your suspicions.
A narcissist without the capacity for remorse is a sociopath by definition. There are many narcissists that have a conscience. One can have a conscience but have little or no empathy.
All of this is why I prefer not to use these labels at all but to consider separately each person’s ability to love, impulse control, and moral reasoning.