The first question victims of love fraud ask concerns themselves and is generally something like, “Why is this so hard for me mentally?” The second question concerns the perpetrator, “What is wrong with him/her?” Many seek answers to these questions on the internet and in the popular psychology literature. A person looking for answers in these sources is just as likely to read about narcissism as he/she is to read about sociopathy. Thus the confusion between narcissism and sociopathy begins.
When trying to understand the difference (if any) between narcissists and sociopaths, it is important to understand why we have psychiatric diagnoses in the first place. We have diagnostic categories because people go to professionals seeking help for their emotional/psychological issues. The problem is that people who are grandiose, exploit others, lack empathy, and apparently have no conscience are unlikely to seek mental health treatment. Therefore, people with these symptoms are poorly understood. This is also the basic reason why this set of symptoms has been labeled both narcissism and sociopathy.
To further the confusion for victims of love fraud, a psychologist, Millon, has described the amorous narcissist. Such people are charming, articulate, charismatic and emotionally exploitative of their lovers. The amorous narcissist, like Don Juan, seeks conquest in his relationships. A Lovefraud reader commenting on another post has provided the best example of an amorous narcissist I have seen, yet she (correctly) calls him a sociopath:
I was completely taken in by a sociopath over a year ago. I had never met anyone who was so attentive, charming, complimentary, good looking”¦ oh, the list goes on. I felt I had not only met Mr. Right, but Mr. Perfect. This was a very cultured and well educated man. Unlike the stereotypical sociopath, he holds a good job -can even be considered a “captain of industry”. We live in different cities, so it was even easier for him to fool me. He would call me 2-3 times a day – send text messages, write e-mails. I wondered sometimes how he got the time to do all this. But it was almost impossible for ME to get him on the phone. He said he was at a meeting, at a business dinner etc.
He also seemed to not have many good friends. But all the people he mentioned were women – some one who went to the symphony with him – and had for a long time, someone who was a biking partner etc. He said his friendships with these people were built around common interests, which I thought was fair enough.
After 6 months and visits back and forth, his romantic speil was not as effusive, which I thought normal. But I also began noticing a lot of inconsistencies and lies. I caught him out on a lie about where he was – he said he was in one city on work and it turned out that he was in another on vacation – and I knew it had to be with another woman! Anyway, i expressed my distrust and he accused me of being suspicious for no reason. He said I had a mental illness and should have my head examined. I got so blisteringly angry when he said this that I told him that I would prove to him that my suspicions were warranted. I embarked on a detective spree and uncovered 4 women who he was courting the same way. One was the official girlfriend in the city where he lived. The others were mistress-type girlfriends. I spoke with all of them. And then I presented him with the evidence. He did not have much to say other than that he had “done everything for me, shown me a good time, bought me gifts”¦” and did not know why I was upset. I know now that there are others. It is like he needs to get all the women he meets to fall in love with him.
Generally speaking, the term narcissist is less pejorative than the term sociopath. The reason for this is that some professionals view the behavior of narcissists as stemming from “low self esteem.” Thus, people feel sorry for narcissists, “He/she wouldn’t do that if he/she didn’t have such low self esteem.” Many sociopaths also recognize that narcissists are more highly regarded than are sociopaths, and so state, “I’m not a sociopath, I’m just a narcissist!”
A close friend of mine who has been on a quest for answers about the man who perpetrated love fraud against her came to the legitimate conclusion that the perpetrator is a narcissist. We have had many discussions about her situation. What bothered me about her description of this man as a narcissist was that it seemed to be part of an ongoing effort not to accept his inherently evil nature. If perpetrators are only trying to bolster their low self esteem, they can still be “good.” It may also be that it is easier to accept being victimized if the perpetrator is a narcissist. The reality that we have spent years of our lives loving an evil sociopath is truly difficult to accept.
So what is the difference between a narcissist and a sociopath? Generally speaking narcissists are less impulsive and higher functioning than are sociopaths. Both narcissists and sociopaths have a severe disorder of the Inner Triangle. Both are not capable of love, and have problems with moral reasoning. In fact, many experts say that a condition called “pathological narcissism” is the core problem that results in sociopathy/psychopathy. In conclusion then, the answer to our question is, “To a victim of love fraud, there is no difference between a narcissist and a sociopath.”
I know! Her drinking didn’t make me want to drink-it was more the principle that she knew it and so did he. That he wouldn’t stand with me against her behavior, etc. Even at that time, new in my recovery I said something to her and boy did I pay. she wouldn’t talk to me, or she would yell at me when alone. I finally stopped being around her alone, stopped going to see his family at the end. It was just too much and not worth my sanity and freedom.
The sad thing is I wanted to be a part of his family. I worked hard to let them “in”, tell them about me, esp. because my r/s with my mom was difficult and not what I wanted. I thought I had found a family that would be fun and loving etc. Just like I thought he would be my family, too. Wow. What a huge let down. things I disclosed about myself to ‘let them in’ were used against me. I was yelled at, sworn at, put down and that was by his mother and sister. YUCK! I had NEVER been talked to in the way she talked to me. Even my own mother wasn’t that cruel. My mom had her issues but his mom caused more chaos then I had ever been a part of. so glad to not be in it any more. So glad!!
Chinagirl, we can say HIS APPLE DIDN’T FALL FAR FROM HIS MATERNAL TREE DID IT!?!
No kidding OxD! 2 peas in a familial pod….glad to be out is all I can say! NOTHING is worth being in that hell. He would always tell me I caused so much chaos. And I believed him. But since being gone my life has become less chaotic. and on a daily basis there really is no chaos. I finally can step back and see all the times HE caused the chaos and SHE caused the chaos. Every trip we went on with her she had some kind of temper tantrum, throwing things, melting down. A grown woman! Obviously alcohol didn’t help her….nor did her nightly xanax! Whenever she came to visit I spent a lot of time in Al Anon. LOL
China….that’s what I say to describe our lives when spath was here….
It was ALWAYS chaos…..if not one thing another….every day!
As soon as he left, I felt my shoulders drop to normal leval.
Never knew they were up to my ears daily.
Bracing myself for the next drama.
Yes….still got some drama…..all spath cleanup…..
One day, I will dance in the fields of daisey’s naked with Dancing Warrior. 🙂
EB, no kidding! When I left that first week in my condo with my D it was bliss. I could tell I was coming back again…in just a few short days. And I lost weight, my skin shined, my eyes cleared…I was happy! I, too, had chronically hunched shoulders with a pinched looked on my face LOL. I became relaxed, care free in a way, happy, silly and playful with D (that was always the case except for the last 6 months when I was super depressed) and not depressed. Everyone noticed the change. Then, a few months later when I realized that there was hell to pay, well, I began my downhill fall into the dark abyss that is the spath. And as we know five years later here I am. But, although the hunched shoulders, pinched face etc is slow to leave, it is leaving. I am beginning to start to feel like the new me is emerging. Thanks mostly to LF and the advice and my ability to listen! and begin to stand up for myself and my D. Wow, what a life! i just read something today that someone named “Gift in Dirty Paper” and he basically was saying, “when bad things happen to me these days I try very hard to see how that bad thing, no matter what it is, could actually be the best thing that happened.” I like that. It is a better way for me to live daily. I don’t like walking around being angry. I’d rather look for solutions, you know? 🙂
““Gift in Dirty Paper” and he basically was saying, “when bad things happen to me these days I try very hard to see how that bad thing, no matter what it is, could actually be the best thing that happened.”
I LOVE THAT!
Thanks for sharing that quote from your friend. Never heard it put that way.
I know, I do too, because I just have to do what i can to stay positive…I can so easily drop into the abyss….if I think too much or have bad dreams (which I still do a lot). As i said i just do not want to be angry all the time. i don’t like myself like that. I know that I have always been a happy person, even as a little kid..always happy…and because my mom couldn’t “discipline” without being angry or putting me down or telling me in the insidious ways she did that I was just not good enough she almost broke my spirit. Somehow I have been able to hang onto the real me throughout…and since learning here on LF and working on these issues I have come to realize that the real me is still in there and I want her to come out!
Also, I think that quote was from Martin Seligman…a psychologist. I wrote a friend of mine said that but mis spoke! sorry! Was posting last night with a severe migraine…
“Gift in dirty paper” is a great way of saying that. So many times–let me repeat that—MANY TIMES, things that I thought were HORRIBLE BLOWS turned out later to have been the VERY THING that saved my life, that were a GREAT BLESSING and without that “horrible” thing happening, the later WONDERFUL BLESSING wouldn’t have been possible.
Due to down sizing, I lost my job at the college health services that I LOVED. I had developed it from scratch and they made it PART TIME, (there goes my insurance!) I was CRUSHED! Cried, mourned! But, couple of weeks later, found a great job, great benefits ONLY WORKING WEEKENDS at a hospital. WOW! 5 days a week off to be home. Shortly after that my beloved step dad was diagnosed with cancer—If I had been working at the college I could not have had the time to be with him. BLESSING!!! Plus, for the year and a half before my husband died I got to spend time with HIM 5 days a week, be with , step father, and spend time outdoors on the farm where I wanted to be.
So losing the job I loved which made me feel like my world had caved in, was a BLESSING setting me up for time with my husband before he died, time with my stepfather during his illness and death and believe me, THOSE HOURS AND DAYS I SPENT WITH THEM ARE THE MOST PRECIOUS MEMORIES I HAVE. If I hadn’t lost that job, I wouldn’t have had time. Also, if I hadn’t lost that job I would not have been able to be WITH MY HUSBAND between the crash and when he died. I would have been at work and there would have been no way I could have gotten to him in time.
I can look back at my life and see HUNDREDS of things that I thought were BAD to one degree or another, but every one of them turned out in the END to have been a blessing in one way or another. I don’t care how “dirty or ugly” the wrapping paper is, just keep the idea in your mind that the GIFT may be much much prettier than you can imagine.
Sometimes it is like a baby parrot, it is BUTT UGLY AT FIRST, BUT WHEN IT IS MATURED IT IS GLORIOUS!
OxD as I was reading what you wrote above I remembered when dating my now xspath I had been praying for a husband. I was 38 at that time and wanted another child or three. (part of me also wanted to be rescued and to leave the state I was living…which i could have done myself!!)
I had been set up with my now x and people we worked with thought we’d make a great couple. I wasn’t attracted to him at first and remember thinking he’s not my type. But, after doing what many women do and what used to make me hooked in (having sex too early) I found myself unable to see the red flags or to detach from him after emotionally and sexually “bonding” with him (I have learned A LOT since then!)
He was already doing things that were unacceptable but being invested in him kept me allowing him to be a jerk. I over looked the really important things because he was a physician (and I thought that would mean smart, dependable, have integrity and that my future would be secure). I thought he was honest, kind, GENTLE! and thinking he was so great with pets that I thought he must be a kind person. (WHATEVER! it’s embarrassing to write and hear myself now)
So when he was doing his push pull thing with me I had my future planned out with him…and when he was pulling away I’d pray and pray for a husband. Not pray for the right husband, or a kind man or God’s plan or will but I prayed for him because I had invested myself in him. I pleaded for this man to be my husband. I was ready to be married again. It had been 15 years since my son’s dad and I split (we are very good friends….never should have left him but that is another story). I thoguht I was ready to be a wife and mother again and almost felt desperate (which should have been the sign for me). So, God gave me what I thought i wanted…and wow talk about be careful what you pray for. I sure paid the price for that desperate plea!
Now I pray to be open to do God’s will. I learned a lot of patience having four miscarriages with xspath and then adopting. My D is a BLESSING that I couldn’t have ever imagined in my own pea brain. I learned how to let go and trust in the process…something I am having to do now as well. Already I have grown up so much in just the past month seeing the areas in my life that needed change. It’s humbling that at the age of 51 I am just now growing up!
So Ox I udnerstand completely how blessings come when we think the worst thing has happened to us…now I pray to see the blessings, too. But remembering my prayers for husband I also have changed the way I pray!!
Dear Chinagirl,
I too! I now pray for “whatever YOU think I need, God, and I TRUST that whatever happens is what I need, because I know you would not give me something to hurt me!” (ALL things work together for good to those that love the Lord) so TRUSTing is important too.
We have to pray like it all depends on God and work like it all depends on US.
God promised if we had enough faith we could MOVE MOUNTAINS, but he did NOT say that we wouldn’t have to GET A SHOVEL and dig!
I don’t expect to just by “faith” make the rocky mountains disappear but I do believe if I have enough “faith” that I can dig through them and grab a shovel, I can make a dint in them.
So we must have faith and work toward a goal…but not try to TELL God what to do or how to run the universe. You know it runs better now that I quit MICRO-MANAGING GOD! LOL