By | January 22, 2014 38 Comments

Divorcing A Sociopath: Getting Away, Staying Away

quinn pierce blog by Quinn Pierce

At the heart of every sociopath is insecurity.  These individuals crave adoration, praise, and power above all other emotional needs.  Decisions are not based on weighing pros and cons, an internal moral compass, or even  possible consequences.

Instead, a sociopath will usually make decisions for one of three reasons: putting themselves in a favorable light to be admired by others, hurting someone who is no longer an ally, or personal gain.  Of course, their most coveted decisions are those that result in a combination of two or more of these outcomes.

Hiding the Truth

During my marriage, I enabled this process by making excuses for my husband,  or pretending he was a better person than he was when talking to family and friends.  Maybe it was my own ego not wanting to admit my life was crumbling on a faulty foundation, or maybe it was an attempt to preserve my family, but my behavior only made my separation more difficult when I tried to reach out for support.  I was not nearly as good at PR work as my husband at the time.

The Smear Campaign

I have to admit, I’m glad social media was not as common then as it is now.  My ex-husband was forced to create his smear campaigns against me by word-of-mouth, which meant having to reach out to people on the phone or face-to-face.  I think it must have been exhausting compared to the user-friendly outlets we have today.  He even went around to all the neighbors where we lived to tell them his version of events and try to gain sympathy at being ‘kicked out’ of his home by his family.

I’m sure he failed to mention that he told me I would never get the house, and if I wanted to separate, I would have to move out without the children.  Of course, his position changed once he saw that I was willing to move out, but with the children, and I would request a temporary restraining order, if needed.  When I started asking about apartments to rent, people started to take notice.  All of a sudden, my ex realized I was the one getting sympathy, while he looked like a cold and callous villain.

Tantrums and Other Attempts at Control

Almost instantly, his changed his position.  Like a spoiled child who wasn’t getting his way, he threw a tantrum, screaming and crying that I would embarrass him by looking for  place to rent with the boys, and how dare I try to take the boys out of their home, what kind of a man did I think he was? (I don’t think he really wanted me to answer that),  of course he would be the one to move out…

Of course, I thought, now that you found a way for this to benefit you.

He relished the role of the wounded husband, cast aside and separated from his children without any explanation.  Every day, I had calls from friends, or was stopped by someone I knew in the store asking me what happened between me and my husband; I can’t imagine what my life would have been like in the world of Facebook and twitter.  I have read so many instances of men and women being harassed, smeared, and stalked by their vengeful exes online, and it always leaves me feeling chilled.

The Lure of Social Media

Even though I was not subjected to these tactics, I find that social media can play a more subtle, yet just as harmful role in our recovery from the sociopath.  Anyone who has left a sociopath probably experienced the sense of paranoia that follows.  The ‘what is he/she planning?’ that keeps us anxiety-ridden and off balance.  It might seem reasonable that keeping tabs on an ex to make sure we are aware of what they are doing would help to ease some of this worry, but it doesn’t.

Actually, it has the opposite effect.  It can even become an addiction that keeps you tied to the other person and not moving forward in a positive way, and that is just one of the negative effects of the behavior.

There are certain truths about my ex-husband that cause looking him up online to be unhelpful in any way.  For one, he will never give away any hint of what he may be planning to do in order to cause chaos in my life.  So, by his very nature, he will carefully monitor himself when posting online to ensure he would neither incriminate himself, nor give himself away if planning a surprise attack.  That means, searching his Facebook page or other social outlets serve no preventative purpose.

Methods and Motives

Also, my ex-husband, like most sociopaths, tries his very best to make provoking and antagonizing statements hoping to get me to engage in his drama-filled life.  Essentially, his words will always play on emotional responses and finding ways to incite reactions.  He will lie, deceive, make false claims and accusations, all with the hopes of annoying, enraging, or engaging me in some way.  He wants to think that I am interested in his life, because that means he still has control over mine. Once I accepted this, it was much easier to disengage.

At first, I would tell myself I was only interested in making sure he wasn’t doing anything dangerous or harmful when my children were with him.  But, inevitably, I would see something unrelated that bothered me- for example, comments and shared photos by my family members.  I confronted these family members about remaining in contact, but in the end, nothing changed.  It was another waste of time and energy on my part for people who are I knew in my heart didn’t support me when I needed it, anyway.

True Separation

Eventually, the need to know anything about his life melted away.  The less I looked him up, the more peaceful my life became.  It was much easier to keep our contact very business-like, as well.  I was no longer baited by his remarks or emotionally charged when interacting with him. Ironically, that seemed to make him much more enraged and miserable, but without any effect on me.  I was able to take a step back and let him drain his own energy while I concentrated on my recovery.

I can only imagine how frustrating it must be for my ex-husband to spend so much time and energy doing things meant to hurt me, only to get no reaction what-so-ever.  But, I have much better things to imagine…my sociopath-free future, for example.

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Thanks Quinn. I’d like to clarify your opening statement about sociopaths and insecurity.

I’ve just finished reading an excellent book about abusive men called “The Batterer – a Psychological Profile,” by Donald G. Dutton, Ph.D. I will review it soon on Lovefraud.

One of the things this book does is explain three different types of abusive men: Psychopaths, over controlled, and cyclical (the cyclical group, Dutton believes, have borderline personality disorder).

The cyclical clearly suffer from insecurity. The psychopaths do not. Dutton wasn’t clear on the over controlled.


Hi Quinn. Thanks for sharing another layer with us. I want to say how I appreciate the subtlety and restraint that you use when describing the encounters that were no doubt painful and exhausting to deal with. The perspective you write from is so appealing to me because you describe clearly the mechanisms and motivations of the covert abuser while explaining what the encounters appear to be to those who are the target audience. I took a screenshot and will likely be quoting your opening 2 paragraphs when confronted with the inevitable ” Why would she do that ?!?! “, and for her cluster b paramours “Why would he do that ?!?!”. Of course they are only attempting to invalidate and to verbalize how ludacris the idea of someone who is so fully dedicated to doing “the Lord’s Work” would engage in behaviors and works that they know better than anyone will result in adverse judgement. This is the number one falsely held belief that here in my local region purchases and perpetuates power for the covert dominant aggressive types, who are few by the way. Of course as we know in their quest for adulation and power where do they usually find their way to ? Positions of power and influence. Too much fun – right ? Lol. Thanks again Quinn.


Donna, I have that book too. Dutton has done tons of research on this subject. I came across him in my research during grad school.

Dear Quinn,

I love your writing. I am printing some of your articles and taking them straight to a client who is an a DEEP FOG! I hope she can see the light. I know it takes time.

Aloha… now.. an MSW!

Donna is absolutely correct about the relevance of insecurity on character disorder. Having lived with a psychopathic husband and a BPD son, I saw the distinction very clearly. While I refrained from naming my son’s condition in my book, Carnal Abuse by Deceit, it became clear to me that he was intrinsically Borderline.

Here’s the difference in a capsuled form:

Psychopaths are out to get you. Everything is about how they can manipulate you for their gain. It was their intent from the beginning, and it continues even after the end. The good news is that once you know the person is a psychopath, they are predictably unpredictable.

Their bad behavior can be far more overt and obtuse. They are very self confident and know that their plan will succeed. Until you wake up wondering what hit you and walk away, it does. And when you do, they will throw you under the bus any way they can because your knowledge of them just made you public enemy number one.

Borderlines are overtly concerned with abandonment. Their relationships may seem normal for a period because they are not specifically out to harm you. They end up doing so, however, because, like a psychopath, they lack cause and effect and have no empathy. They will explode and blame whenever they feel shame, and they will do so frequently because without affective empathy, they consistently hurt the people around them. A relationship with a Borderline feels like the sword of Damocles is hanging over the relationship.

They see life through a black or white prism, and I don’t mean race. They have no nuance. You’re either all good or all bad. Once you’re sufficiently “bad” they will split. They will never acknowledge that they could be wrong because that triggers their concern of your abandoning them. There is no “let’s agree to disagree for the sake of the relationship.” They’d rather abandon you because their life is all about abandonment. If they do it to you, you can’t do it to them.

There is no long range stability with a Borderline, even once whatever caused the split or rift fades to the background. It will happen again and again and you will feel like you’re walking on egg shells.

The punishment for breaking what a psychopath perceives to be their “egg” is that they will remain and harm you. They may even punish you with violence. The punishment for breaking the “egg” of a Borderline, is that they will split.

So, in general, for the most part, a psychopath will continue to harm you until you get fed up and walk away or stand up for yourself. A Borderline will split over the illusion of shame they have conjured. Sometimes that shame is all in their mind, and sometimes, it’s well deserved. But no matter, they will walk away from you before they perceive that you will abandon them.The closer they are to you, the more likely they will walk away.

Whether psychopath or borderline, if they perceive that they can get anything further from you, they will try to come back. Once you make it clear that it’s not an option, they will damage your reputation so they can hide their flaws from the next unsuspecting soul.

Hope I’ve made this conundrum a bit clearer. I do so because it helps to have clarity, but knowing which one harmed you is like knowing if it was a GMC or Ford truck that ran you over. It’s just as painful either way!



Joyce, when you say they “split”, do you mean they abandon you or they use the defense mechanism of “splitting” which basically sees you suddenly as the bad guy when you were once the good guy?

Hi Stargazer-

Thanks for your question.

In fact, they do both. They will turn you from a “good guy” to a “bad guy” for the most inane reasons. Keep in mind that they have no “nuance” or “cause and effect.” They see wrong (shame or abandonment) even where you can’t imagine it. And they are notorious for abandoning.

Relationships with Borderlines are not forever. Once they see you as bad, it’s a constant. Although after a long separation, they might float back into your world, the time frame to make you bad again will be short lived.

All “Cluster Bs” use their anger as a weapon. Normal folks get angry and get over it. Unconditional love requires forgiveness. Cluster Bs don’t have any. If they’re back, it’s because they want something.

They go from one relationship to the next hopeful that their new love will be perfect. When they’re not, the abandonment issue pops up again.

All the best-



Thanks for your response. I am fascinated with the discussion BPD because I was diagnosed with it in my 20’s. There is controversy about whether borderlines can be “cured” or not. My current therapist, who works with a lot of trauma victims, tells me that there is new research showing that trauma victims will manifest borderline behaviors, but that they are not truly BPD, and that a lot of it is misdiagnosed. I think the line is very thin and ill-defined. In my experience as a conscious self-aware person with borderline issues, I can say that it is extremely difficult even for the most conscious person to heal BPD in themselves. But I do believe it is curable, at least in some cases, and there is much literature to prove that. Also, in my experience, there are relatively few therapists out there who are truly skilled enough to deal with BPD, who will confront the abandonment, and who are not afraid of the subsequent rage and pain that the BPD must face as a result. There are no centers where such people can go and recover and experience their pain and rage until they get past it. I have dreamt for many years of opening such a center. It would be staffed by people who have been through it, because they are probably the only ones who can understand and deal with it, just like a former drug addict can understand the withdrawal process from drugs. Recovered BPDs (I’ve known one or two) are some of the most compassionate people I’ve known.

What about the BPDs who are not self-aware? I think the average person would be wise to know the signs and just avoid the BPD altogether unless they know what they are getting into and feel like they are ready for the challenge of a lifetime. If the BPD is not improving but just going through cycles of acting out, this will destroy their relationships.

The discussion of whether personality disorders can be cured is always so interesting for me. I don’t group BPDs with sociopaths. I think sociopaths are not curable or fixable, for the main reason that they don’t feel they need to be fixed. BPDs are usually aware that they are in pain, and the pain is overwhelming, which is why they act it out.

I’ve only recently learned that there are specialized treatments for BPD. I’m not at all sure of recovery rates but I heard from someone in treatment that seems to feel they are improving. If you could find someone who specializes, wouldn’t that be great!


Thanks Joyce – an excellent explanation!


When I got away and stayed away from my sociopath mother, the smear campaign was over the top amazing. All I did was move out when she demanded out of the blue a large sum of money to continue living in my parent’s house – which I did not have. Then she re-wrote the situation exactly like your ex, Quinn, to read that I left her – how horrible.

My reply to every person who confronted me was “think about why a clearly devoted daughter would choose to leave.” I paid for my own college, I lived at home and helped with my parent’s bills, I bought them a car, etc., etc. I would calmly remind people of that and then make that statement above – THINK about why a DEVOTED daughter would choose to leave.

Not one person was interested in listening. I ended up moving 2 time zones away and instinctively went no contact (before I ever heard the term). Even then, she sent minions for awhile and harassed me via phone calls – I took out the phone. 😉

Even at her funeral (I should not have gone), the stories that remained were so outrageous and dark that it boggled my mind what was believed.

Thank you for sharing this piece of your story. It gives the validation which is so important to us survivors. So glad you are experiencing more peace – and wisdom.


Thank you Quinn for another absolutely truthful story. I also look at my marriage as it was built on sand and not a rock. And when that sand disappears like someone stepped on your sandcastle you just built at the beach, in just a short moment it’s all destroyed . Because there was never a solid foundation to the marriage.
My soon to be ex is on his war path of destruction. But we finally have a court date set early February. Yesterday when I talked to my attorney, for the first time my husband was labeled as a sociopath. I am so thankful that most people can see him clearly for what he is now.
And yes the social media is not helpful other than anything on facebook is admissible in court proceedings. Of course he is super careful what he posts. I stay away from all of it. His little “minions” are not so smart though and post things they should be careful about.
I am keeping my strength and I know I will come out ok. Already now after 9 months of no contact I can think better, sleep better and my entire life seems much brighter. Like I escaped the darkness that surrounded him. Life will be happy again for me. For all I care he can remain in this dark


Great analogy about sand…. and I’d go one step further, it becomes quick sand, sucking you down and suffocating your life!

Unfortunately court proceedings can serve to drag you deeper and deeper into the quagmire. Hope yours goes quickly and productively to a positive end!

All the best-


Thank you Joyce. I absolutely agree with the quick sand. Once you are sucked in it is almost impossible to escape. I did not volunteer to be discarded as he was the one who left. But now I can look at it differently. I was so addicted to his abuse, I would have never left on my own. It was a great act he did by leaving. I also have to actually laugh now about his outrageous lies. Now, that I am out of the fog, I am astonished that I believed this b/s for 20 plus years. It shows how dangerous those people are. Towards the end I was questioning my own sanity. I know now that there was absolutely nothing wrong with me.
Yes, the legal aspect of all this is very exhausting. I interviewed several attorneys before choosing this one. I wanted to make sure that someone represents me who clearly understand that my husband is a sociopath. So far I am happy with my choice but the upcoming court hearings will tell. I am not even nervous or afraid anymore. I survived 20 years. Nothing can be worse than those years .
Thank you for all your support. I feel confident that I will come out of this mess a stronger person than I have ever been. That’s one thing I learned since I was discarded. To never give up and always hold on to your hope. 9 months ago I did not think I could ever be happy again. And here I am, feeling good and I am at peace 🙂


Now that you’re faced with a court proceeding in which you may have to be in the same room with him, remember that the next best thing to “no contact” is to “gray rock.” Just keep your focus and don’t show any emotion to him.

And of course, let us know how you make out!

All the best!


Thank you so much. My attorney did say I have to be in one room with him. Of course with my attorney present. He told me not to worry. Can you explain the “grey rock” one more time? I want to be as prepared as I can be. I know that my soon to be ex is playing the victim already and claiming that he had to leave. His reasoning of course is that I am “mentally ill and unstable”. No mentioning of course of his various affairs and nude picture exchanging on the home computer. So far he has taken every material asset away from me. I am not sure how all this will look to the court. Thanks again for all your support and advice.


Kaya48, there is a great article here on “grey rock” if you can figure out a way to do a search. I don’t know how to do it now. Also not sure if she spelled it “grey” or “gray”. It was written by Skylar and it’s excellent. The bottom line is to be very boring, as if you would just blend into the landscaping like a grey rock. Do not show any emotion or participate in any drama. Keep it about business. If you can, don’t even look at him or talk to him. Let your attorney deal with him. But basically, the grey rock method is to just be so boring that you bore the spath away. They crave excitement and drama. If you don’t give them any, they usually go away. If you have to talk to them, you would talk about very boring things like how you broke a nail, or even how you are tired and depressed, etc., something that would just bore them. The vampires cannot suck the life out of you if you act like you don’t have any.


Thanks stargazer and everyone. I know he was sucking the life out of me for the past 20 years. I slowly “recharged” my life in the months since he left. I will not even look at him and view him as he is nothing. I have my attorney to handle the talking. I will not let my soon to be ex try to suck me into his dark world. Those times are over. I did great in the court hearing for the injunction he had placed against me. That was the words of my attorney who was truly my hero that day. Finally someone put my husband into place until he was speechless. Even being a police officer did not help his crazy lies he told.
I will research some more “grey rock” articles and as always I will remain strong . Thanks again.

Out of There


I haven’t posted in this site for a long time — about 2 years. I am, again, having all kinds of problems with the ex. I have been divorced for 5 years and yet he will not comply with court orders. Last year began with failing to pay me money he owed me. He refused, so my attorney took him to court. I was awarded the money he owed me and fees. Again, he owed me money from past due alimony, refused to pay. Attorney took him to court, I was awarded the money and fees. He then found out I got remarried. Hence, I truly do believe, that God hears our cries, sees our tears and gives us what we need. My permanent orders stated my alimony was contractual and non-modifiable and the court had no justisdiction to change or amend the agreement. However, his attorney forgot to put language in the order that my alimony would cease upon my remarriage. So I get to keep my alimony for the entire contract of time. He filed a petition with the court to terminate my alimony and it was denied and I got fees. He took it to another judge and it was denied again and I again got fees. Both judges told him to stop wasting the courts precious and limited resources and do not bring it in their court again. It did not work. He filed yet again. It was again denied.

He now took it to the Appellate Court and it will be heard sometime in the spring. This is so very trying on me emotionally. I was pretty much left with nothing. Absolutely nothing. No home, very little in personal property even after being married to him for 17 very long years. They are incredible masters of lying and deceit. My only source of income is this alimony for a long time. I am praying that the Appellate Court will not overturn the case law in my state that has been presidence for a long time. He told my attorney he will take it to the Supreme Court of my state if the Appellate Court denied his motion.

In the meantime, has failed to comply with most of the court’s orders, while I did exactly as I am directed by the court. I have not seen a complete income tax return from him since we were divorced 5 years ago, even though it has been court ordered. I have continued to give him my tax returns with all attachments. This year he wanted my returns, and I agreed, by only after I see his. I had an accountant review and gave me a complete list of the missing documents and there was a lot including W-2s and 1099s. I gave him mine. I did not receive his. My attorney filed a contempt and we had a hearing on Friday. He was seething with hatred for me so much so that you could cut the air with a knife. He told me years ago that if I divorced him, he would destroy me, leave me homeless, penniless and I would never see our children again. He has succeeded in almost all of it. God will provide and protect. I see it every day of my life. He says be patient and He will correct the wrongs. Psalm 36 and 37 and Psalm 40.

My attorney believes that the 1040 he gave me is probably not what he filed with the IRS. Additionally, he was also ordered to provide me with the bank accounts that he established while we were married and the money in them. Never did it. We learned he has off-shore accounts and he will probably have to report that income on his return. This could be so explosive that I cannot even begin to understand the fall out of everything that may happen. My attorney is worried about me and my safety, since he has threatened me before.

Any ideas on what anything thinks is going to happen? How do I protect myself from this monster? This will affect the child support in a huge way. If the 2012 return is all fake, then we will ask for the 2009, 2010, 2011 returns with all of the attachments and schedules as well. This could affect child support in an enormous way.

All of a sudden, I got hang ups on my cell number that no one has. The same thing happened to me 2 years ago, when I learned they were from a PIs office. Does this mean the whole thing is starting again with a PI and lawyer? I also got a telephone call from someone who said they were looking for someone and I said they had the wrong number. I checked the telephone number and it is from a ruthless lawyer in my state. I called that number back and asked why they called me, and I was told they called my number by mistake. I don’t think so. Any advice would be really really appreciated. I need some help and encouragement. I am really scared. Please help me.


I lose my support if I remarry. My attorney didn’t include it otherwise and I was a mess so just wanted to get it done. I have such a problem with the idea that I am a piece of property, transferred to another (man) and therefore not entitled to maintenance support. I believe support should be viewed as a severence package. It is owed to you. Period. You don’t lose your severance if you get another job. The courts need to stop treating women like property, transferred to another man! This is 2014, for heavens sake!


Sorry, out of there. I wasn’t any help with your situation but do empathize with your fears. Be well and watch your back.


Dear Out of There,

Can your attorney obtain the tax return the spath filed with the IRS?

If you are remarried and have moved on with your life, you might consider whether it’s possible to live without his financial support just to get him out of your life once and for all. Maybe he would consider signing over parental rights if he doesn’t have to pay child support. If he feels like he has “won” he may leave you all alone. Otherwise, you will probably live in fear and turmoil for as long as he is court ordered to pay you. And then collecting the money is a whole other story. Please consider very carefully if it’s worth keeping this monster in your life. Yes he owes you and yes you deserve it. Life is unfair sometimes, but many people here who were left penniless and devastated have rebuilt lives and incomes without the spath. Just something to think about.

Stargazer – thank you for the excellent advice for Out of There. Sometimes it works.

But sometimes the sociopath is so bent on revenge and destruction that he will continue no matter how you respond, and the target has no choice but to fight.

Out of There – you’ll have to figure out your ex’s agenda. Is he willing to go away if the thinks he has won? Or will he force you to fight?


I have not dealt with the spath on any legal level for some time now; my youngest is 20 years old, and my only daughter. But the spath is NOT finished with his tactics, which I sadly discovered this evening.
I have been very sick with a flu that is going around, so I am well aware of my vulnerability; therefore, when my daughter finally came home from being with her spath Dad for two nights in a row (visiting from college), I only wanted her to know that I missed seeing her this weekend and wish we could have been together a bit more. She was acting very strangely when I told her this, and I probed a little more and she told me that since she has been studying Psychology, and “honestly, Mom this has nothing to do with being with Dad,” that she thinks I have “borderline personality disorder.” I immediately thought, “of course, it has nothing to do with being with Dad, it is only what he tried to convince me and others of when in reality I had dealt with PTSD, and depression.” You would all be so proud of me here at LoveFraud, I did not say a single word to my daughter. In fact I asked her to please leave the room and we would have to talk about this later. I called my Mom so that I could regain my composure, and she really helped me as she always does. My daughter left for her school, 3 hrs away (Dad insists that she live on campus to keep her away from me). I did not discuss her diagnosis of me having BPD. In fact, what she does not know is that about 10 years into my marriage with the spath, he became very upset that I no longer wanted to work for him in “HIS” business, and that I wanted to return to college to finish my degree. That was where my “mental issues” started to come up in conversations with him. I started having boundaries about his treatment of me, I started going to therapy, a psychiatrist, two 12 step groups, and even visiting a 2-week outpatient program, because the spath was constantly telling me that I was “crazy.”
I was NOT diagnosed with BPD by anyone; not a therapist, a psych, no one! In fact I was told that I was married to a narcissistic spath, and it would get worse for me. AND it got worse, indeed. When one of my sons died from an overdose of prescription drugs, that gave him more fuel for his fire! According to the spath, that was MY fault as well. It has been 6 years since our divorce.
Even though my daughter and I have had our issues, when she dropped this “diagnosis” on me tonight, it brought out the pain and frustration of the power her Dad still has. I was immediately devastated that she would fall into his encouragement that there is something wrong with me. I know who I am, and I know what I have been through and how far I have come to get past his abuse, but there was something very heartbreaking about my only daughter listening to her Dad tell her things about me.
I don’t talk about him to her. But I know the truth about what is going on here. It is just so hard to see our children fall victim to it; so, so hard.
It may take time, but I hope and pray she will see the truth someday.


Dear juvnlife, as someone who WAS once diagnosed with BPD in my 20’s, I can attest to just how damaging the label can of a mental illness can be. I have recently learned that severe PTSD mimics the symptoms of BPD. If your daughter brings it up again, you could try explaining this to her. Remain calm and don’t take it personally. Ask her why she feels you have this illness, and address her reasons and observations point by point in a calm way. This is a way of debunking the hearsay while still encouraging her critical thinking. Remember, you CANNOT control what he says about you. You can only control how you react. So don’t give him the power of making you react! Don’t take it personally when your daughter come homes spewing hearsay from him.

All you can do is live your life well, handle your emotions, and conduct your relationships in a healthy way. Eventually, your daughter will come to see you as a loving person and not as the ill one.

Jluvnlife – again, Stargazer has offered excellent advice. The smear campaign is SOP – Standard Operating Procedure – for the sociopath. They very convincingly tell everyone that you’re crazy. I hope your daughter recognizes the truth.


Both PTSD and Post Traumatic Rape Syndrome (PTRS) are possible affects of having relationships with disordered personalities. I covered this topic in my book, “Carnal Abuse by Deceit.” When a person lies to seduce you they are raping. So even though your intimacy was consensual, you would feel raped and react with “rape syndrome.”

I bring this up because I’ve also been through a similar circumstance with my son, in which his extraordinarily wealthy father managed to alienate him. Had I understood the dynamics of psychopathy and rape syndrome at the time, I think I could have had a better outcome with my child, who is now 33 years old and who is completely estranged from me.

Before the problem becomes so great that you no longer have a relationship, I encourage you to locate a family therapist who deals with psychopathy and the dynamics you are facing. I’d also recommend that you get a copy of my book for your daughter because I believe it will help her recognize the efforts her father is making to mislead her.

I wish someone had made this suggestion to me before the problem became insurmountable. I lost my son, I sincerely hope speedy and proper intervention can spare you from losing your daughter.

My best!

Out of There

Thank you everyone for your responses to me, Stargazer and Donna Anderson, they are very much appreciated.

Donna, you are so right. This ex is so hell bend on revenge and destruction of me that I don’t think anything I do or say will change his behavior or attitude.

This alimony is the ONLY thing I got out of our 17 year marriage — nothing else. As for our children, unfortunately I have been the victim of parental alienation. They do not know the truth about anything and since we were both told not to involve our children, I did exactly what I was told — I did not involve them in our divorce. I wish I could say the same of him. He still continues to involve them in everything that happens.

He is a very rich and powerful executive, who gets his way one way or another and will not stop until his target is completely destroyed. I really believe, I have to, that the children will figure it out at some point in time. The child support, that I am paying, could be reduced if I can prove his income tax returns are fake. I still can’t believe I am paying a lot of money when I am not working and he is well into the six figures.

I just want some kind of justice and peace. Is that too much to ask of our legal system in the US?


Out of There… I used to buy into that coparenting “rule” to not tell your children anything, until I was enlightened by one of my son’s friends whose mom also divorced an abusive man. She told him the truth and he was very well adjusted and still is. It was causing more stress to pretend, and the stressed out parent is the one who gets alienated as well.

I also recall a woman who stayed with her abuser until the kids were grown, for their sakes and by the time they were adults, she was alienated as well. She was a motivator in leaving my first husband bc for the first time I saw no benefit in staying the course “for the kids.”

The second brief marriage, although more financially and physically destructive, was in some ways easier because there were no children together and it was only 3 years. Both men are spathe, but in different ways. One I have to deal with daily due to our children and one I have a nagging fear of what he is up to next, and even with the criminal and civil no contact and stay away orders, do not feel safe from the terror that is present from the mere what if he flips out one day, that day I finally feel comfortable… it prevents me from finding true peace and comfort.

Back to the kids though, I finally told them why I left their father bc quite frankly the older one figured it out and the younger one had to witness the abuse between the older one and dad. She is remarkable as she simply to dad… “you didn’t have to do that” after seeing him hit our son. I hope and pray they will be ok, but the coparenting “rules” are meant for those who divorce from non spath spouses. They simply do not apply to our situations, and can ultimately harm your relationship with your children as they grow up confused by why you placate and endorse this other parent they begin to see for what they really are… or in worse case scenario, dont see bc you prohibit it by invalidating their perceptions by making him seem ok. Please think about that if you have a chance. It has made things better, not worse in my home. I didnt smear him, I simply told the truth, and my son’s therapist advocated for telling them the truth as well.

Best of luck… at least you get alimony 🙂 I get constant criticism from my kids dad… no matter how much I do for him as I watch the kids on his days to help him out… never an ounce of appreciation, or compensation.

Out of There-

I had an ex whose income was entirely off the grid. Like yours, mine was extremely wealthy, by way of becoming the permanent boy-toy of one of the most affluent women in the US. His influence on my son was enormous, even though he’d abandoned him as a child. The damage of abandonment horrifically impacted my son’s moral development and made him especially susceptible to manipulation from his father.

Fortunately, we live in a world of heightened internet transparency. If he’d behaved today the way he did back then, his actions would have been easier to spot. Here are a couple of things I’d recommend to you:

Your attorney can demand his passport. Doing so could give you insight into where his money is located. It will certainly underscore that he can’t be a “pauper” if he travels internationally.

Your attorney can also demand his credit card account information and bank accounts.

In addition, your attorney can secure the means to request the actual data from his tax filings directly from the IRS. Keep in mind that providing you with a false tax filing could be perjury.

Your attorney should be able to put you in touch with a forensic accountant. Sounds like you need one. Even if you can’t prove his income, you could prove his lifestyle.

As his spouse (or even as his ex-spouse) you are entitled to the projection of his Social Security payments which will enable you to see, year to year, what he contributed to Social Security.

It sounds like he has much to concern himself with if the IRS began snooping around. You can report your concerns and receive a reward that is kept anonymous from him. You do not need a great deal of detail. They will conduct research on their own.

Wishing you the best!

Out of There

Thank you jm_short.

We have a contempt hearing trial set for April 4th. After I spoke with my attorney about requesting the court to get his income tax returns from the IRS, I am certain we will be getting his 2012 return. If anything, and I mean anything on that return does not match what he showed me, we will then be requesting his 2009, 2010, and 2011 returns as well.

I did not think about requesting a copy of his passport. Yes, that will definitely show his life style that is for sure. I found his credit card statements he had while we were married. On these statements, there were numerous entries to T D Worldwide, which is a company that provides wire services to off-shore accounts. The court ordered that he provide all information regarding his interests in T D Worldwide, but he never complied. I think this is a start.

We have already tried to get credit card accounts and bank accounts, but we never get everything. Just a few statements here and there. He never complies with the court’s orders.

I am a woman of faith and ask that all of the people here on LoveFraud, to please pray for me that we finally get justice. I know that God has heard my cries throughout this entire mess. All I really want is peace and justice.


Dave, if you can turn her in for fraud (like I did with mine with the army) by all means do it. But just remember that she could lie and say the two of you were involved in it together or that you put her up to it. If you were living together as common law spouses during any part of it, this might implicate you. Or she could retaliate in some way involving you or the kids. Anything can happen with a spath – they are capable of anything. If you don’t need an attorney, maybe at least get one of those prepaid legal services for a month ($16) and consult with one of their attorneys by phone before doing anything. I use Legal Shield and I cannot recommend it highly enough.

BTW, it’s really good that you’re angry. It will keep you from going back to her.

Out of There

Dave. Thank you for your comments. There is no reason why he “needs” my money at all. I think it is just to make me suffer and suffer over and over again because I left him. He did tell me countless times that he would destroy me if I ever left him and he almost did. But you also need to remember that we are DONE with them. I do struggle but I not with him anymore and that is a great thing.

I would never wish my past life on anyone. Yes, I had a lot of luxuries, but at what price did I have to pay. Happiness does not mean a lot of money and luxuries, it means to me peace and safety. BTW Dave his return, that I believe is fake shows an income of $265.

God Bless


I agree with the statement “being a good father in the past is not the same as being a good father in the future”. I feel so much sorrow for children who have to go through these “battles” between the mother and the father. People don’t realize how much hurt and resentment they inflict on their children , no matter how old they are. Because of selfishness and feeling “entitled” they cannot see the pain in their kids eyes. This will carry into their adulthood and so on. My soon to be ex does not realize that he will not be a part of many events to come, like my sons college graduation, maybe a wedding someday, maybe grand children. I always put the need and welfare of my child first. Always, no matter what my needs and wishes are.
Everything in life has consequences and people should carefully think before they act selfish and cowardly. The main victims are always the children.

I have deleted the most recent discussion on this thread. Please remember to keep comments supportive. I realize that some comments were supportive, but I felt the best thing to do was remove all of the related comments.


I am so glad to see that you found peace. I have tried, but am not there and honestly cannot see a way to true, quiet peace unless he 100 percent doesnt know where I am, or I hear he has passed away and can no longer haunt me… although, it would give him great pleasure to do so from the grave if at all possible. I try to put my best light forward, but am more comfortable accepting my circumstances, honestly. Pretending I am at peace I found to be more stressful, bc I was lying to myself, if that makes any sense.

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