I write this column (using “he” throughout, for simplicity purposes) to suggest some useful ideas for vetting a prospective provider who does not come recommended through a reliable source (or through Donna Anderson’s growing new LoveFraud referral base).
How can you begin to assess a relatively unknown provider for his competence to address your experiences with a suspected sociopath specifically, exploiter in general, or otherwise personality-disturbed individual?
Let me start by suggesting that a provider who claims to be educated about sociopathy really isn’t if he lacks an equally fluent understanding of narcissistic and borderline personality disorder.
The reason I say this is that, under certain circumstances, all three disorders can look very much alike; but more importantly, if you are involved with someone who has any one of these disorders, you are at heightened risk of being personally violated and abused.
So, while they are distinct from each other (although common elements of narcissism and sociopathy remain intriguing), I’m suggesting that all three disorders greatly increase the probable, if not certain, occurrence of interpersonal violation.
In the course of this discussion, I’m going to assume that you may be involved with someone (or have been involved with someone) whom you suspect (or know) to be, for instance, sociopathic and/or abusive? Otherwise you wouldn’t be seeking assurances that a particular provider has knowledge and/or expertise of the disorder(s) in question.
I also make the assumption that LoveFraud members or visitors wanting to find a knowledgeable resource on sociopathy (who do not find assistance through Donna’s new referral resource) come with a nice advantage—by virtue of their involvement with LoveFraud, they are already extra knowledgeable on the subject. This equips them to be astute evaluators of a prospective resource.
So let’s get down to business.
You will need, no surprise, to ask questions; questions that can gauge the provider’s competency to appreciate the gravity of a situation in which a sociopathic (or some other exploitative dynamic) is, or has been, present.
And you will want good, expressive answers to your questions, not dismissive ones.
The first, vital task is to assess the provider’s receptivity to your interest in his clinical experience. This point needs emphasis: You are entitled to evaluate the provider’s clinical experience and expertise as it pertains to your circumstances.
I stress: You are completely, utterly entitled to assess the provider’s professional experience, skills, and interest on matters relevant to your personal circumstances and self-interest.
Remember, this is not about protecting the provider; it’s about protecting yourself.
As such, this speaks to a bigger issue: You are setting yourself up if you do not protect yourself, and so you protect yourself by owning your right to a completely respectful, receptive invitation to evaluate the provider’s scope of interest and competence with a given client population, or in a particular clinical area. Anything less than a genuine, undefensive invitation from the provider to proceed with your questions should immediately disqualify him from consideration.
So for instance, you might begin with something like, “You know, it’s very important to me, given my circumstances, to be working with someone I can feel confident has a really good knowledge of _________. Would you mind if I asked you several questions along those lines, for my own personal comfort?” (There are many ways to break the ice, this is just one example.)
Remember: A provider who fails, at this point, to invite you to proceed, undefensively, has disqualified himself. Thus, if he responds impatiently, arrogantly, angrily, curtly, condescendingly, as if offended or put-off, or in any other way inadequately, he is wrong for you. You must move on, because you deserve better.
Assuming you’ve gotten the proper encouragement to proceed, I offer below a list of questions (hardly comprehensive) which, depending on your circumstances, can elicit meaningful information. The idea (quite obviously) isn’t to ask all of these questions, but to pursue several that are most applicable to your situation.
This list is by no means complete; rather, it’s at best a starting point, if only to get your own wheels rolling to come up with even better questions! Note that some of the questions probe for knowledge, others for personal views and biases, and others for experience. The asterisked questions can sometimes elicit responses that will enable you to quickly eliminate potential resources.
· How familiar are you with sociopathy?
· How familiar are you with psychopathy?
· Do you distinguish sociopathy and psychopathy, or are we using these terms to mean the same thing?
· Do you distinguish antisocial personality disorder from sociopathy or psychopathy?
· How many cases have you worked involving sociopathy?
· Can I ask how you came to work with these individuals?
· What is your treatment philosophy regarding sociopathically disturbed individuals?
· I’m curious how you view sociopathy? I know that many people have different ideas about sociopaths. Can you tell me your view of what characterizes the sociopath?
· How do you distinguish, if at all, the sociopath from the narcissistic personality?
· What’s been your experience working with borderline personality disturbance?
· In your experience, what are similarities and differences between borderline, narcissistic and sociopathically disordered individuals?
· How much experience have you had working with abusive individuals?
· Can you tell me a little about the history of your interest, and experience working, with abusive personalities?
· *How effective and appropriate, in your experience, are anger management referrals for abusive personalities?
· How much interest, and experience, have you had working with victims of abuse?
· What is your view of what constitutes abuse in a relationship?
· What are your goals in working with someone who is in, or has been damaged by, an abusive relationship?
· *Are there circumstances where someone might be driven, legitimately, to abuse someone else?
· Do you mind if I ask you whose work or writings on abusive relationships and abusive personalities has most influenced your views?
· Do you mind if I ask you whose work on the subject of psychopathy (or sociopathy) has most influenced your ideas?
· *Are you familiar with Robert Hare’s work?
· *Have you successfully treated sociopaths?
· My partner, if you meet him, will tell you that I’m a sociopath”¦how will you know which of us, if either, is the sociopath?
· Are you familiar with any psychological instruments that assess for psychopathy, and if so, do you use them?
· *Under what conditions, if any, would you be hesitant to do couples therapy?
· What goals do you have, generally, when working with a borderline personality?
· What goals do you have, generally, when working with a narcissistic personality?
· What is your understanding of the central feature(s) of sociopathy?
· What is your understanding of the central feature(s) of the narcissist?
· Would you be willing to read something I’d give you if I felt it could help you understand the precidament/situation/personality I’m dealing with?
· When you believe you are dealing clinically with a sociopathic individual, what is your clinical goal?
The answers to your questions
As I’ve strongly suggested, the provider’s responses, first of all, should convey interest in, and respect for, your questions. Your first assessment, then, is less of the provider’s expertise and knowledge, than his or her attitude to your questions.
As a matter of fact, a primary purpose of your questions is to assess the attitude of the provider. In other words, if the provider isn’t temperamentally suited to appreciate the complexity of your concerns, he or she can have all the knowledge in the world and be pretty much worthless.
You’ll want honest answers. Genuine answers. Not pretenses to expertise where there isn’t any. You’ll want a provider who is willing to say, “That’s an interesting question. I might even need to think about that a bit more.”
I offer randomly some rough examples (from countless possibilities) of what might be deemed encouraging responses to some of these questions:
“To be honest, no”¦I haven’t worked with what I’d call a high volume of ________; but I do feel comfortable with my understanding of this clinical issue, and I’d like to be of help to you.”
“I consider myself to be clinically literate on this subject, but I’m happy to become even more enlightened and would welcome anything you have to share with me to get me up to speed.”
“I wouldn’t say that I have a particular interest working with _______, but I do like working with and helping those who have been victimized by ________(s).”
“I suppose I’d regard ______as a very central feature of _______. Also ______.”
“I don’t really make a distinction between antisocial personality and the sociopath? As a matter of fact, I wasn’t even aware of such a distinction? But I’m curious about that? Am I missing something?”
“I’ve worked a great deal with victims of abuse and enjoy working with this client population.”
“I’m not familiar with that issue, to be honest” (depending on the circumstances, this doesn’t necessarily have to be a disqualification).
“I can’t say that I’ve had great success working with narcissistic personalities”¦but I’ll work with anyone who voluntarily seeks my help genuinely.”
“I’m not sure if I satisfied you with my response?”
These hypothetical replies have in common a thoughtful, humble, curious quality. The confident provider will feel relaxed, undefensive, and unpressured to produce brilliant, comprehensive answers beyond his or her scope of expertise.
At the same time, you are looking for evidence of expertise that will leave you feeling comfortable that this is someone who can effectively, sensitively advocate for your interests.
Some responses, as noted, can quickly reveal a provider’s serious limitations.
For instance, the response to the question, Have you successfully treated any sociopaths?, “Yes”¦I’ve worked with many sociopaths and treated several very successfully,” is a great time-saver. You just say, “Thanks very much, I’ve really appreciated your time,” and then have a good laugh on your way out.
That’s because true sociopathy, as the LoveFraud community well knows, is a refractory
condition, unamenable to meaningful modification.
Regarding the Hare question: in cases where a provider claims to be experienced with the subject of sociopathy, I might find it dubious (although not necessarily instantly disqualifying) that he or she would have no knowledge of Robert Hare, who is such a notable figure in psychopathy research.
Similarly, the response to the question, Under what conditions would you be hesitant to do couples therapy?, “Umm”¦.I can’t really think of any?,” would suggest a potentially serious defect in the provider’s clinical knowledge and/or judgement. That’s because couples therapy is ill-advised under several circumstances, among them when serious abuse is occuring in a relationship, or when one or both partners is sociopathically oriented. (And naturally, non-genuine motivation to work on the relationship would be another contraindication.)
Further, a provider who suggests that, yes, a referral for anger management is probably the best intervention you can offer an abusive personality betrays a likely ignorance of the dynamics of the abuser, who has much more than merely an anger problem.
And it’s self-evident that a provider who can find a basis to justify abuse under any circumstance is probably confusing abuse with, perhaps, self-defense—a failure of understanding that ought to send you running for the hills.
Bear in mind there is no one right way to answer many of these questions; in many cases, there are multiple good (and good-enough) answers which also allow for differences in clinical approaches and orientations.
I offer below additional examples (also random, hypothetical) of the kinds of responses that might reflect a reassuring level of clinical expertise:
“What do I see as the central feature of sociopathy? I see the sociopath as someone who is extremely, chronically manipulative and deceptive. Someone who lacks empathy in a very gross way for the victims of his or her exploitation.”
“I see what you mean”¦.you can have a borderline personality disorder doing something, say, really vengeful that might look very sociopathic, but the motive for the aggression would be different. The borderline personality might be motivated by rage, panic, or desperation over, say, abandonment issues, whereas the sociopath? He or she may be movitated by”¦the impulse?”¦pure greed”¦or even the fun of it?”
“If I have good reason to believe I’m dealing with a sociopath, my main goal becomes evaluating his or her risk to others”¦depending, of course, on the circumstances of the referral and case.”
“If I’m working with someone with borderline personality, I’m looking to help that individual, among other things, learn how to better regulate his or her emotions, which may be very dysregulated and for that reason a source of much distress.”
“If I’m working with a narcissistic personality disorder, I’m looking, over time, to help that individual, if possible, examine his demands and expectations of others—his inflated sense of entitlement—more thoughtfully; and also examine the ways that he routinely handles, or mishandles, his disappointment in others.”
“When I’m working with abusive individuals my goal is to confront their excuses and rationalizations for their violating behaviors.”
“When I’m working with victims of abuse I may have several goals, including safety concerns; also exploring how the client finds herself in an abusive relationship, and the factors that make it difficult for her (or him) to leave that relationship.”
“How will I know which of you is the sociopath? I think in any clinical situation, you rely on a number of factors in formulating possible diagnoses, including your instincts, your experience of the individuals, the client’s history (as furnished by the client and others), other relevant, available, supporting documentation; and any adjunctive testing and evaluations that can narrow down, if necessary, a suspected diagnosis more accurately? And so there’s no guarantee that I’ll get it right, but I’m pretty confident of my chances.”
In sum, you’ll want assurances that the provider, at a minimum, can recognize the central aspects of sociopathy (or the disorder in question); he or she should appreciate the futility of pursuing treatment with the sociopath, especially in a private practice setting; but most importantly, the provider should be able to convey a good clinical grasp of, and history of work with, abusive personalities and their victims.
You will know, intuitively, whether the provider’s responses indicate an adequate level of thoughtfulness and knowledge.
And remember, your initial assessment doesn’t end when you choose to begin a working relationship with a particular provider, anymore than you cease evaluating the individual with whom you enter a personal relationship. Your evaluation should be ongoing, and your continued investment in the relationship, whether with a professional resource, or intimate partner, should be based on a continuing evaluation of him or her as worthy of your time and trust.
You can say at any point along the way, This person is not right for me. Just because I sized this person/provider up initially (with necessarily incomplete information) as worth my initial investment, doesn’t mean I can’t modify my assessment of him or her at any time, thanks to my making good use of additional, more complete information!
I hope this offers some guidance for conceptualizing an approach to the evaluation of a relatively unknown prospective provider. I am glad to continue this discussion based on feedback.
(This article is copyrighted (c) 2009 by Steve Becker, LCSW.)
Everyone … I wished the folks that are still beating themselves up about our EXs …. to remember … that as spiritual beings experiencing human existence we are suppose to being loving, kind, generous … all the virtues of God’s … because we are created in his image and we are to practice being like him. With this being so, stop beating yourself up for loving your EX … we did what we were suppose to do … our EXs (for whatever reason) are playing an entire different game and we aren’t even in that ball park (thank God) with their games of deception.
I hope this eases pain of those that can’t quit grasp the concept of forgiving yourself yet. Try not to think of it on the human level of intelligence … just try to feel it instinctively in your heart and soul. Best time to reflect on this is right when you are tired and about to go to bed. Turn off the TV or stereo … turn off the lights and just lay there in your bed, with no background noise … quietly, and talk to God and ask him to guide you through this chaos. Your instincts will kick in and you will feel good about the direction you are going while trying to heal. You have to start relying on your instincts … instincts are your gaging structure from God. So back to the basics.
Peace.
Rune,
I wish I’d read your post here before I wrote my last one on another thread.
I’ve been there. In one year, I was forced into bankruptcy, lost my home and relationship, lost my son when my ex-husband took him to another state, went into a depression that made me unable to finish my part of a book I’d already spent the advance for, and was rescued just as I was about to become homeless by a tough old bird who brought me into her home. She harangued me daily about “what are you going to do?” until I pulled myself together and tracked down any sort of work just to make it stop.
Having been through this situation doesn’t make me qualified for anything except compassion. But I do feel for you.
If your situation is what it sounds like, you need help. Survival help. Here are a few suggestions, for what they’re worth. Get into a support group, like Al-Anon. If you have ever gone to a church, go back. In both cases, talk about your circumstances and ask for help or referrals. Check out the social services resources. If you’re homeless and jobless, you qualify for help.
And while you’re doing all of this, maybe you should write your story. I’ve written mine at least three times now, and the only reason I don’t publish is that it would interfere with my professional life.
And nutty as this may sound, consider developing a one-woman show or stand-up routine. You have a lot to say, and what you say is really insightful and interesting. If you’re blocked in every way from getting your old life back, maybe that’s the subject of your new life.
That’s a stupid idea, isn’t it? But at the same time, I keep finding out that the more I am myself the more I attract the right resources. I agree with Oxy. Who you are is stronger and smarter than you may realize right now. And more attractive. Maybe for you, the challenge is not finding solutions that have nothing to do with your story, but trusting yourself to become more expressive about your own story.
KH: Your story gives me encouragement. And, yes I’ve checked out the survival help. That’s part of the trauma. One of the little Ps who destroyed my last toehold was a churchgoing “lay pastor” who was mighty righteous as he put me in the street. I go into panic paralysis if I think about anyone within that church. It made the holidays even more excruciating. I’m not a homeless vet or one of the chronically homeless who need math skills, a bunk, and job training. Thirty days in a shelter wouldn’t improve my situation. The S/P was an AA leader; any thought of 12-Step and I have another PTSD shutdown. And I have two Australian shepherds who are doing their best to herd me away from the cliff edge.
I need to recover before I can work on survival, and I need to survive to be able to recover. I’ve already been disqualified from work in fast-food service (in a good-humored evaluation) by a friend who worked in restaurants for years: I’m “too old and too slow. The kids will want you fired because you’ll bring up the average times for delivering meals.”
So, I have internet connection, a safe place to park right now (no one looking at my computer and thinking about stealing it to pawn somewhere), my two dogs, my phone, and I can write. I guess writing my story wouldn’t interfere with my professional life, since that profession is gone! I don’t know if I could stand up in front of people right now to talk, but perhaps that ability will come back.
I’d feel guilty for sucking down all this sympathy right now, except I know we do this for each other. And sometimes one person’s bloody, tear-filled post is just what another shy non-posting reader needs to help them get through their own situation.
Love to all.
Thank you for holding up the mirror, telling me what you see.
KH
Your talk of destabilisation, and a total re-questioning of our life’s purpose is EXACTLY what makes this a trauma, and not “just’ abuse. It is at the root of why the pain lingers so long, why we ruminate so much, and why we cant easily move on, despite knowing that we are better off.
Mine did some wierd things that are really difficult to convey, because they rely on so much context, and were so sublte as to be totally deniable.
One of the worst was an ‘undoing’ of the honeymoon phase ( in which he was Mr Perfect). I started noticing that if we had been to a particular place, and had a really good time doing a particular activity, that I was redoing these same things with him, but now the experience was negative. And it wasnt that things had overtly changed between us, it was like a way of destroying a good memory, and replacing it with a poor one. It was a subtle form of sabotage, which I think was part of the power trip. It was like he wanted to prove to himself that he had made me fall in love with him, and by undoing things, he could make me fall out of love.
It was really all about him. I remember feeling like I was being set up – set up to complain, or comment on the process. I knew that if I did, he’d just deny it. And so I didnt. And, systematically, every good memory, of every good experience, was replaced with a bad one. And I was powerless to alter this, because I was still under the illusion that if I tried, I could succeed. And of course, my best efforts always met with failure.
Often felt that I was playing a game in which I didnt know the rules, and that it had already been decided beforehand that I would lose.
And what did I lose? The belief that if you give love, you receive it. The belief that relationships are about 2 people. I lost all my good memories. I lost the belief that my hopes and dreams are valid. I lost trust in the basic goodness of people.
The point of the post was to say that my difficulty with Steve’s list of questions when “interviewing” a therapist, is that it wont reveal their response to issues like I described above. I think that it is only when you really get into the therapy will it become apparent how they see your pain. It may even sound pathetic to some of you, but the calculated destruction of what was very prescious to me, the disempowerment, the arrogance, and the realisation that I was just a Narcissistic Satelight was deeply destabilising. It was a part of a trauma leading to depression, a complete loss of joy, and a total re-evaluation of my world view. It was one of 100 ways of Gaslighting me.
Obviously, there was a lot of other stuff, and this wierd undoing bit was just one of many stratergies used. But for me it represents a sample of the kind of abuse, and the difficulty in conveying it to others, that all add up to the bigger horror of being in love with an N.
Dear Steve
Thanks for your post. Your previous posts really got me, so to speak, to think hard about my position, and were thus not invalidating, but stimulating.I want you to know that I do see your point, and think much of it is sound. My views are from my own subjective experience, and it really isnt vital to me that others agree or not, as it wont change my experience. But it does get me thinking, instead of feeling, which makes for a welcme change.
Grant
Yes, Grant. It’s easier to label it “abuse” if there’s blood, bruises or broken bones. Not that I’d wish that on anyone. But so much of this horror is in that place of deniability for the S/P/N. “Not me! I didn’t do it. What are you talking about?” Like the guy filling the house with his cardboard boxes of crap from his three storage lockers and leaving the house that way for 5 months. This was a 5000 sq. ft. house, and there was nothing I could say that would do anything about getting the boxes emptied. He put a broken-down 3rd-level office desk in front of half of the sofa so I couldn’t see the TV from where I sat, but he wouldn’t move it because “I need three desks to do all the different kinds of work that I do.” This from the guy who didn’t bring in a dime of money in 18 months. How to explain that kind of thing?
Rune, its a provocation, an attempt to make life difficult, and then when you respond, it is you who is “difficult”, or sensitive, or whatever. There is also a lot of that passive-aggressive stuff that makes me feel that it was an anti-relationship. It is so hard to see it, because when you do, you have to start accepting what they are really like.
I suffered the worst personal betrayal of my life in this relationship. I wont give the details as it is so long and involved, but when it happened, while I was very, very hurt, I couldnt figure out why he did it. And he couldnt really explain it either.
It worried me at the back of my mind for 6 months. I knew it was deeply significant, but it was so unexpected, and so illogical. One night, 6 months later, when I went to bed, I said , in my head, speaking to my sub-conscious mind: I know you know what this was about, and that you have prevented me from understanding this, but I really would like to understand, even if it hurts a great deal. Was the last thought on my mind when I went to sleep.
Woke up the next morning, and it was clear as day! The real significance of the betrayal is that it was complete proof that he didnt love me. Never had. But I could just not process that thought, so I hadnt understood. It seemed so obvious when I got it, though, that I would never, ever have betrayed someone I really loved like he had betrayed me ( it was not an infidelity issue).
It was part of the fog, and the crazy-making.
Grant: Yes, my awakening was similar. That part actually happened almost instantaneously when I saw his mask drop, but I didn’t have a name for it. I didn’t know that there was a psychological category for this sort of sub-human. I do know, though, that it was like I had had liquid nitrogen shot into my veins, and the following days and months were like having my insides run through a meat grinder.
I used the term “cognitive dissonance” to describe the dissociating shock, but those dry words don’t begin to describe the full body turmoil. The following link has an interesting definition that even includes the reaction to a “con.” I’ll bet the academic who put this together STILL didn’t know what he/she was talking about! http://www.learningandteaching.info/learning/dissonance.htm
As they say, “You had to have been there!”
GRANT: Likewise…You stimulated my thinking, too. And I’m really glad you didn’t feel invalidated. I also agree completely with your point (and never really disagreed) that no set of questions (mine or anyone’s) will certify (esp in and of themselves) a therapist’s rightness for someone. I never really intended to suggest that. Thanks for all your intelligent feedback to my original column, and I’m really glad you didn’t feel personally disrespected by any of my subsequent responses.
Steve
Grant:
“One of the worst was an ’undoing’ of the honeymoon phase ( in which he was Mr Perfect). I started noticing that if we had been to a particular place, and had a really good time doing a particular activity, that I was redoing these same things with him, but now the experience was negative.”
I never could articulate that experience. Thank you for doing so.
My first date with S was the first, and only one he planned and paid for. It was at a very romantic restaurant. I felt like I was walking on a cloud all evening.
The first time he suggested we go back to that same restaurant this wierd little voice in my head warned me “Don’t do it. He’s going to do something. Keep the memory of that first date perfect.”
We went. I insisted that the maitre’d sit us at exactly the same table. The evening, politely put, was not an encore performance of the first evenng.
The next time we went to that restaurant, S upped the stakes even more. Hell, not only was he ordering off the menu, to cost me even more, I now see that S was on a search and destroy mission to absolutely anihilate my memories of that first, magical evening.
Often, when I’m walking home from work, I pass that restaurant. And I pause and look in. My gaze always flies past the table we sat at for that last, miserable evening, and goes to the table where we had that first date.
Then I remind myself that that was the first and last time he planned the evening or paid for anything. And I force myself to look at the last table and remind myself to remember the look on his face when the check came — that sly, avaricious smirk — like he KNEW he had not only conned me, but that he had ruined my memory.
And he did it over and over with places I hadn’t taken him to before, but which he knew were special to me. He was a man on a mission to destroy everything I held dear.
Like you, I lost the belief that if you give love, you receive it. I lost the belief that relationships are about 2 people. I lost all my good memories. I lost the belief that my hopes and dreams are valid. And I lost trust in the basic goodness of people.
I am trying so hard not to become the meanest son of a bitch on the block. With the encouragement from other LoveFraud bloggers I’m starting to believe that I will meet somebody who knows how to give and receive love. I’m starting to believe that I will meet somebody with whom I can build a future. I’m starting to believe that my hopes and dreams are valid.
That’s what I want for me. What I want for S? I want to see him rot in prison and then see him rot in hell.
And that moment at the end, that moment when you realize you are nothing to an S but a source of resources. Actually a source of resources in the form of a punching bag. And you realize not only can you not take another minute of the abuse, but you realize the whole thing from start to finish was a lie.
There are some things more painful than the truth. But, offhand I can’t think of a single thing.