I write this column (using “he” throughout, for simplicity purposes) to suggest some useful ideas for vetting a prospective provider who does not come recommended through a reliable source (or through Donna Anderson’s growing new LoveFraud referral base).
How can you begin to assess a relatively unknown provider for his competence to address your experiences with a suspected sociopath specifically, exploiter in general, or otherwise personality-disturbed individual?
Let me start by suggesting that a provider who claims to be educated about sociopathy really isn’t if he lacks an equally fluent understanding of narcissistic and borderline personality disorder.
The reason I say this is that, under certain circumstances, all three disorders can look very much alike; but more importantly, if you are involved with someone who has any one of these disorders, you are at heightened risk of being personally violated and abused.
So, while they are distinct from each other (although common elements of narcissism and sociopathy remain intriguing), I’m suggesting that all three disorders greatly increase the probable, if not certain, occurrence of interpersonal violation.
In the course of this discussion, I’m going to assume that you may be involved with someone (or have been involved with someone) whom you suspect (or know) to be, for instance, sociopathic and/or abusive? Otherwise you wouldn’t be seeking assurances that a particular provider has knowledge and/or expertise of the disorder(s) in question.
I also make the assumption that LoveFraud members or visitors wanting to find a knowledgeable resource on sociopathy (who do not find assistance through Donna’s new referral resource) come with a nice advantage—by virtue of their involvement with LoveFraud, they are already extra knowledgeable on the subject. This equips them to be astute evaluators of a prospective resource.
So let’s get down to business.
You will need, no surprise, to ask questions; questions that can gauge the provider’s competency to appreciate the gravity of a situation in which a sociopathic (or some other exploitative dynamic) is, or has been, present.
And you will want good, expressive answers to your questions, not dismissive ones.
The first, vital task is to assess the provider’s receptivity to your interest in his clinical experience. This point needs emphasis: You are entitled to evaluate the provider’s clinical experience and expertise as it pertains to your circumstances.
I stress: You are completely, utterly entitled to assess the provider’s professional experience, skills, and interest on matters relevant to your personal circumstances and self-interest.
Remember, this is not about protecting the provider; it’s about protecting yourself.
As such, this speaks to a bigger issue: You are setting yourself up if you do not protect yourself, and so you protect yourself by owning your right to a completely respectful, receptive invitation to evaluate the provider’s scope of interest and competence with a given client population, or in a particular clinical area. Anything less than a genuine, undefensive invitation from the provider to proceed with your questions should immediately disqualify him from consideration.
So for instance, you might begin with something like, “You know, it’s very important to me, given my circumstances, to be working with someone I can feel confident has a really good knowledge of _________. Would you mind if I asked you several questions along those lines, for my own personal comfort?” (There are many ways to break the ice, this is just one example.)
Remember: A provider who fails, at this point, to invite you to proceed, undefensively, has disqualified himself. Thus, if he responds impatiently, arrogantly, angrily, curtly, condescendingly, as if offended or put-off, or in any other way inadequately, he is wrong for you. You must move on, because you deserve better.
Assuming you’ve gotten the proper encouragement to proceed, I offer below a list of questions (hardly comprehensive) which, depending on your circumstances, can elicit meaningful information. The idea (quite obviously) isn’t to ask all of these questions, but to pursue several that are most applicable to your situation.
This list is by no means complete; rather, it’s at best a starting point, if only to get your own wheels rolling to come up with even better questions! Note that some of the questions probe for knowledge, others for personal views and biases, and others for experience. The asterisked questions can sometimes elicit responses that will enable you to quickly eliminate potential resources.
· How familiar are you with sociopathy?
· How familiar are you with psychopathy?
· Do you distinguish sociopathy and psychopathy, or are we using these terms to mean the same thing?
· Do you distinguish antisocial personality disorder from sociopathy or psychopathy?
· How many cases have you worked involving sociopathy?
· Can I ask how you came to work with these individuals?
· What is your treatment philosophy regarding sociopathically disturbed individuals?
· I’m curious how you view sociopathy? I know that many people have different ideas about sociopaths. Can you tell me your view of what characterizes the sociopath?
· How do you distinguish, if at all, the sociopath from the narcissistic personality?
· What’s been your experience working with borderline personality disturbance?
· In your experience, what are similarities and differences between borderline, narcissistic and sociopathically disordered individuals?
· How much experience have you had working with abusive individuals?
· Can you tell me a little about the history of your interest, and experience working, with abusive personalities?
· *How effective and appropriate, in your experience, are anger management referrals for abusive personalities?
· How much interest, and experience, have you had working with victims of abuse?
· What is your view of what constitutes abuse in a relationship?
· What are your goals in working with someone who is in, or has been damaged by, an abusive relationship?
· *Are there circumstances where someone might be driven, legitimately, to abuse someone else?
· Do you mind if I ask you whose work or writings on abusive relationships and abusive personalities has most influenced your views?
· Do you mind if I ask you whose work on the subject of psychopathy (or sociopathy) has most influenced your ideas?
· *Are you familiar with Robert Hare’s work?
· *Have you successfully treated sociopaths?
· My partner, if you meet him, will tell you that I’m a sociopath”¦how will you know which of us, if either, is the sociopath?
· Are you familiar with any psychological instruments that assess for psychopathy, and if so, do you use them?
· *Under what conditions, if any, would you be hesitant to do couples therapy?
· What goals do you have, generally, when working with a borderline personality?
· What goals do you have, generally, when working with a narcissistic personality?
· What is your understanding of the central feature(s) of sociopathy?
· What is your understanding of the central feature(s) of the narcissist?
· Would you be willing to read something I’d give you if I felt it could help you understand the precidament/situation/personality I’m dealing with?
· When you believe you are dealing clinically with a sociopathic individual, what is your clinical goal?
The answers to your questions
As I’ve strongly suggested, the provider’s responses, first of all, should convey interest in, and respect for, your questions. Your first assessment, then, is less of the provider’s expertise and knowledge, than his or her attitude to your questions.
As a matter of fact, a primary purpose of your questions is to assess the attitude of the provider. In other words, if the provider isn’t temperamentally suited to appreciate the complexity of your concerns, he or she can have all the knowledge in the world and be pretty much worthless.
You’ll want honest answers. Genuine answers. Not pretenses to expertise where there isn’t any. You’ll want a provider who is willing to say, “That’s an interesting question. I might even need to think about that a bit more.”
I offer randomly some rough examples (from countless possibilities) of what might be deemed encouraging responses to some of these questions:
“To be honest, no”¦I haven’t worked with what I’d call a high volume of ________; but I do feel comfortable with my understanding of this clinical issue, and I’d like to be of help to you.”
“I consider myself to be clinically literate on this subject, but I’m happy to become even more enlightened and would welcome anything you have to share with me to get me up to speed.”
“I wouldn’t say that I have a particular interest working with _______, but I do like working with and helping those who have been victimized by ________(s).”
“I suppose I’d regard ______as a very central feature of _______. Also ______.”
“I don’t really make a distinction between antisocial personality and the sociopath? As a matter of fact, I wasn’t even aware of such a distinction? But I’m curious about that? Am I missing something?”
“I’ve worked a great deal with victims of abuse and enjoy working with this client population.”
“I’m not familiar with that issue, to be honest” (depending on the circumstances, this doesn’t necessarily have to be a disqualification).
“I can’t say that I’ve had great success working with narcissistic personalities”¦but I’ll work with anyone who voluntarily seeks my help genuinely.”
“I’m not sure if I satisfied you with my response?”
These hypothetical replies have in common a thoughtful, humble, curious quality. The confident provider will feel relaxed, undefensive, and unpressured to produce brilliant, comprehensive answers beyond his or her scope of expertise.
At the same time, you are looking for evidence of expertise that will leave you feeling comfortable that this is someone who can effectively, sensitively advocate for your interests.
Some responses, as noted, can quickly reveal a provider’s serious limitations.
For instance, the response to the question, Have you successfully treated any sociopaths?, “Yes”¦I’ve worked with many sociopaths and treated several very successfully,” is a great time-saver. You just say, “Thanks very much, I’ve really appreciated your time,” and then have a good laugh on your way out.
That’s because true sociopathy, as the LoveFraud community well knows, is a refractory
condition, unamenable to meaningful modification.
Regarding the Hare question: in cases where a provider claims to be experienced with the subject of sociopathy, I might find it dubious (although not necessarily instantly disqualifying) that he or she would have no knowledge of Robert Hare, who is such a notable figure in psychopathy research.
Similarly, the response to the question, Under what conditions would you be hesitant to do couples therapy?, “Umm”¦.I can’t really think of any?,” would suggest a potentially serious defect in the provider’s clinical knowledge and/or judgement. That’s because couples therapy is ill-advised under several circumstances, among them when serious abuse is occuring in a relationship, or when one or both partners is sociopathically oriented. (And naturally, non-genuine motivation to work on the relationship would be another contraindication.)
Further, a provider who suggests that, yes, a referral for anger management is probably the best intervention you can offer an abusive personality betrays a likely ignorance of the dynamics of the abuser, who has much more than merely an anger problem.
And it’s self-evident that a provider who can find a basis to justify abuse under any circumstance is probably confusing abuse with, perhaps, self-defense—a failure of understanding that ought to send you running for the hills.
Bear in mind there is no one right way to answer many of these questions; in many cases, there are multiple good (and good-enough) answers which also allow for differences in clinical approaches and orientations.
I offer below additional examples (also random, hypothetical) of the kinds of responses that might reflect a reassuring level of clinical expertise:
“What do I see as the central feature of sociopathy? I see the sociopath as someone who is extremely, chronically manipulative and deceptive. Someone who lacks empathy in a very gross way for the victims of his or her exploitation.”
“I see what you mean”¦.you can have a borderline personality disorder doing something, say, really vengeful that might look very sociopathic, but the motive for the aggression would be different. The borderline personality might be motivated by rage, panic, or desperation over, say, abandonment issues, whereas the sociopath? He or she may be movitated by”¦the impulse?”¦pure greed”¦or even the fun of it?”
“If I have good reason to believe I’m dealing with a sociopath, my main goal becomes evaluating his or her risk to others”¦depending, of course, on the circumstances of the referral and case.”
“If I’m working with someone with borderline personality, I’m looking to help that individual, among other things, learn how to better regulate his or her emotions, which may be very dysregulated and for that reason a source of much distress.”
“If I’m working with a narcissistic personality disorder, I’m looking, over time, to help that individual, if possible, examine his demands and expectations of others—his inflated sense of entitlement—more thoughtfully; and also examine the ways that he routinely handles, or mishandles, his disappointment in others.”
“When I’m working with abusive individuals my goal is to confront their excuses and rationalizations for their violating behaviors.”
“When I’m working with victims of abuse I may have several goals, including safety concerns; also exploring how the client finds herself in an abusive relationship, and the factors that make it difficult for her (or him) to leave that relationship.”
“How will I know which of you is the sociopath? I think in any clinical situation, you rely on a number of factors in formulating possible diagnoses, including your instincts, your experience of the individuals, the client’s history (as furnished by the client and others), other relevant, available, supporting documentation; and any adjunctive testing and evaluations that can narrow down, if necessary, a suspected diagnosis more accurately? And so there’s no guarantee that I’ll get it right, but I’m pretty confident of my chances.”
In sum, you’ll want assurances that the provider, at a minimum, can recognize the central aspects of sociopathy (or the disorder in question); he or she should appreciate the futility of pursuing treatment with the sociopath, especially in a private practice setting; but most importantly, the provider should be able to convey a good clinical grasp of, and history of work with, abusive personalities and their victims.
You will know, intuitively, whether the provider’s responses indicate an adequate level of thoughtfulness and knowledge.
And remember, your initial assessment doesn’t end when you choose to begin a working relationship with a particular provider, anymore than you cease evaluating the individual with whom you enter a personal relationship. Your evaluation should be ongoing, and your continued investment in the relationship, whether with a professional resource, or intimate partner, should be based on a continuing evaluation of him or her as worthy of your time and trust.
You can say at any point along the way, This person is not right for me. Just because I sized this person/provider up initially (with necessarily incomplete information) as worth my initial investment, doesn’t mean I can’t modify my assessment of him or her at any time, thanks to my making good use of additional, more complete information!
I hope this offers some guidance for conceptualizing an approach to the evaluation of a relatively unknown prospective provider. I am glad to continue this discussion based on feedback.
(This article is copyrighted (c) 2009 by Steve Becker, LCSW.)
BloggerT: All I’m saying is that my situation isn’t the norm. I didn’t have the luxury of a one on one relationship with my fiance. It was he and I and my bosses, their cronies, and then some.
Hey, have all these greedy folks working on you!
I did the best that I could do under the circumstances … and guess what? I’m still standing and my waters are calm.
Plus BloggerT … no one on this site knows what it is that my bosses were trying so hard to silence me! If you did, then you could put all the pieces together like I can/have. That’s why I suspect my EX was a ringer for my managers … play me in my personal life as they played me in my professional life. Who ever gets to her first … who cares … just get it done, no matter how you get it done!
Peace.
Healing Heart,
I love your posts and try to read them because they are so thoughtful and honest, so please don’t regret what you write. Not everyone comments on everything and something someone writes might be the very thing someone else needs to read only they are not posting about it. I write in the moment as well because I don’t have a l lot of time. I also have trouble keeping up with everyone’s comments and reading everything.
I think this particular blog has become a little tangled. I have not read every world of it, but I think there has been some misunderstanding about what some are saying. I don’t think anyone has said they MUST go to a therapist who has been a victim. My understanding is that some are pointing out that it can be helpful because it can provide a common ground for understanding that is based on actual life experience.
I think Healing Heart has recognized and defined the problem very well in previous comments……the initial confusion and deep traumatic pain, the searching, the need to have things organized and defined in a way that makes sense and which does not include being blamed or pathologized as you mention, HH. Very good reminder.
Sometimes I wonder if institutionalized academic training in something that is baically a healing art, has compromised and undermined achieving effective results for INDIVIDUALS who are very different. Things have been standardized to the point that the client is almost processed according to a learned standard formula that is counter-productive.
Years ago, when I first sought a counselor, my insurance required that I go to either a PH.D or an M.D. No clinical social workers with a counseling practice allowed! I also had to select from a list of providers, so that eliminated shopping around and conducting interviews. This is based on the fallacious notion that the standard of care is the same among all providers and it will be equally effective for every client regardless of issue being addressed.
As for this comment………”“We do not see things as they are; we see them as we are.” Sometimes this is true, sometimes it could not be further from the truth. We each have to come to our own conclusions about our track record for accuracy in terms of our experiences and what we perceive, and not allow statements like that to invalidate personal levels of confidence or undermine or ability to make appropriate descions when dealing with others.
Eyeofthestorm:
Thank you, for saying so eloquently what I would have said.
My “pardoxically narrow position”, in my view, is “keeping the system honest” by protecting the rights of my clients in order to ensure they have a fair trial. Our founding fathers didn’t put those words in our Constitution and the Bill of Rights because they sounded nice. They were well aware of the high cost of judicial and legislative tyranny.
Working with my clientele (mostly white collar criminal) I have never viewed my postion as helping anyone evade responsibility. Are many of them guilty? I never ask, but I assume so. Do they deserve a fair trial? Unequivocably.
Are there rules governing attorney-client privilege? Absolutely. And for a very good reason. Who would want their attorney shooting off his mouth in public or working against his interests? Answer? Nobody.
Under our system of justice, it is presumed that the government and its resources far outweigh a defendant’s. Though she wasn’t involved in a criminal case, Wini has spoken eloquently on her battle where the power of the government far outweighed her’s.
Our system is designed to prevent rule of the mob. As outraged as we are as a sociey by some of alleged (I use that term on purpose) crimes of various individuals, can anybody honestly say they would like to live in a place like Rwanda?
Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Not a perfect system, but the best there is.
EyeoftheStorm –
Thank you for your wise words – and thank you for your kind words to me, specifically. It felt very good to read what you wrote – thank you!
Thank you, Eye, for that succinct summation. And HH’s comments spoke to the heart of my concerns.
I am also grateful for your challenge to the comment, “We do not see thiings as they are . . .” That comment is in the same category as “what’s wrong with you that you got into that relationship.”
By the time I sought out a therapist, I had already read “Without Conscience” and “The Sociopath Next Door,” and it was 4 months after I walked out the door, shattered and not having a clue as to what had happened. The guy never laid a hand on me, no screaming, no kidnapping — he just systematically destroyed everything I was trying to build (behind my back), while putting on the face of being the perfect, helpful, wonderful partner on every level. And also getting in little undermining digs dressed up as solicitous concern. “Poor dear, you look tired. You’d better get some rest or you’ll make more bad decisions.”
When I went looking for the therapist, I knew very well that I had been manipulated and violated emotionally, psychologically and financially. I already knew that there was no way I could “negotiate” anything with him, because he had demonstrated that he never honored any “agreement,” but he would say anything to put me back into a false state of security. I even had a name for what he was: “sociopath.”
I got a counselor from the battered women’s shelter, one well respected in the country. She was their “most experienced counselor” with six years working in that field. I talked with her for 2 1/2 hours, received her empathy, and I asked her for help in finding resources so that I could have housing, legal support, some avenue to get back into the house that had my furniture, my money in it — some way to reclaim my life. She promised to research resources and get back to me. Ten days later she called and asked me directly, “Well, have you tried talking to him?”
Her question hit me like a piano falling out of the sky. I’d been so hopeful that here was someone who not only would “get it,” but who would understand what I needed to get my shock-ridden psyche back in shape so that I could work on reclaiming what was rightfully mine.
Steve: so much of what you say is legitimate, especially in an orderly world, particularly when people have resources to be able to shop for the right therapist. But HH has stated it the best, and Eye has seconded her statements.
Grant has highlighted some gaps and deficiencies in the traditional therapy paradigm, and I think it is more useful to examine these gaps than to defend a position that is — yes, legitimate — but missing some important nuances.
HH: Your words have helped to heal my heart. Last night I felt a bit knocked around by the comments, but I held my position. You gracefully endorsed and articulated the area of my concern.
We all bring something valuable to this site. I feel that struggling to understand our varied viewpoints is a more powerful practice than taking the defensive on a viewpoint that may be 98% correct, but off or even devastatingly wrong for some of us in some of our circumstances.
And, the disagreements and varied opinions help to keep us honest with ourselves, eh?
BloggerT: If I suspect my EX was a ringer to help my managers do me in/under, makes me think that this could be a new technique/weapon used to get other professionals out of the way. Think about it! What is the easiest way to remove you from the game? Have a player that doesn’t work for them … on the payroll to make the moves on you … drive you to nervous breakdown … keep your mind off the ball (your specialty in your field), have your career crashed and burned. Just the emotional trauma takes years to figure out and work through, never mind bankrupting you.
Some of my friends (former co-workers of mine who also know all the players in my scenario at work) have come to the same conclusion as I have … that my EX was hired to do me under.
What if … just what if this is the new way to control and destroy others who are targeted for whatever reason? Due to jealousy, career positions, competition in your professional field, politics … hey, wasn’t it that English politician that was brought down by a call girl …. paid to destroy his career by having the media fawn all over their affair (Profumo was his name). You can’t finger them back to a co-worker, boss, neighbor etc. Hey, everyone just chalks it up that you are paranoid or PTSD … and it falls through the cracks and no one is the wiser. You’re destroyed … and that’s that.
Peace.
Hello Rune – yes. As I sometimes do, I just started writing this morning after I saw one or two posts….and then afterward I read back. It was quite a back and forth last night!
I wonder if our positions vary depending on how far out of the trauma we are. I wonder if the further out you are removed, the more objective you become, which is good,….yet perhaps you lose some of the sense of vulnerability that being still “in the muck” brings up, which is also very important, and perhaps most critical. I think those of us still processing the pain feel more strongly about the therapist “getting it” specifically than the people who are further along, and further outside.
But I agree with so much of what you said, Rune, and I’m not sure exactly how far along you are in the recovery.
But I think what a lot of us experienced that as hurtful, was going to a therapist, or friend, or family, or any other caretaker – telling them how hurt and confused we were, and having the other seem to “miss” that we were being victimized, at times blamed us. Which was re-traumatizing. This is particularly painful, and infuriating, when we are paying the person to help us, and they are supposed to be more perceptive than most – and they seem to imply, at times, that the problem is with us. And we’ve been blamed, scapegoated, gaslighted, for months and years at that point! LAST thing we need.
And yes, as several people have said – there are many very talented and wonderful therapists. Therapists who are especially good at dealing with trauma victims and abuse victims. But that’s not the issue. It’s a problem of recognition, diagnosis, intervention…..not of treatment. Once we have figured out that we are victims of an abusive relationship, most therapists could help. But the really difficult part is recognizing that. And it seems like all of us did that on our own. I think maybe I’ve read one person state that their therapist suggested they might be involved with an S. The rest of us had to learn this on our own. Even when we were already involved in therapy.
I like referrals. If I find a REALLY good doctor or nurse, I keep going back to them to referrals. I found an amazing psychiatrist from my internist. From the psychiatrist I found a very good therapist…..though at first she was thrown off a bit. And from her, when I couldn’t afford to keep going to her, I found another good therapist. And then I found one on the Internet for phone consultations that was perhaps the best of all. She was a referral from Sandra Brown’s website. She specializes in helping victims who have been with dangerous men. With her, she just needed to hear about 5 minutes of my story and she knew right where I was on the path to healing and what the next step was for me to take, what I needed to be doing, and still phrases she told me to use I still use today. I loved that I didn’t have to go into all the drama and details about my past, about my bad man, etc….Just like we can see patterns here and say “oh I know what stage she’s in right now….that’s the stage of total shock and wanting to slip back into denial” etc. It was like she INSTANTLY got it, she had it “got” more totally and completely than I could at that time. That was a wonderful feeling.
Healing Heart:
“I think maybe I’ve read one person state that their therapist suggested they might be involved with an S. The rest of us had to learn this on our own. Even when we were already involved in therapy.”
Precisely. During the course of my relationship with S, my therapist never once said “I think you might be involved with an S.” No, he watched me twist myself into knots trying to save a doomed relationship.
His response? “I wasn’t SURE that you were involved with a S. You were making so many excuses and rationalizations for his behavior.”
All I keep thinking is “you didn’t think that maybe, just maybe you might just mention what you thought I was involved with?”
Yes, I understand that a thearpist can’t diagnose somebody who isn’t in the room. That said, he could have pointed out that I was busy making excuses and rationalizations for behavior that clearly was outside of the norm.
Call me simple, call me old-fashioned, but you throw a drowning man a lifeline. You don’t throw water on him.