lf2

Fact v. Feeling: “Disorder” in Divorce

Editor’s note: The following post was written by the Lovefraud reader “Adelade.” Names have been changed.

One of the most important undertaking in divorcing from a sociopath is to remain, at all times, factual during legal proceedings.

When I first entered my attorney’s office to tell her why I wanted a divorce, I was hysterical and incomprehensible. This was immediately after I had been arrested for Domestic Violence, and I was in a state of sheer panic and anxiety that I had never believed possible. I didn’t unload my “feelings” so much as the ugly facts about my action I had discovered that Kerby had not only been living a double-life since before we ever even met, but that his interests were so repellant that I was unable to process them. This was well before I discovered the forgeries and truths of how 300K vanished in 2 ½ years.

Remaining emotionally detached during legal proceedings is no simple task, especially when we’re divorcing from a sociopath. If there are children in common, anxiety, stress, and despair can be compounded to the point where we’re unable to do anything better than obsess about what the spath did, and continues to do. This becomes all-consuming and affects our employment positions, our personal interactions, and family dynamics.

Courts and Attorneys are not interested in how you “feel”

First and foremost, we must realize, understand, and accept this fact: attorneys are not counseling therapists. The Law deals in facts only, and an attorney is not interested in how their client “feels.” This is harsh and seems unreasonable, but it’s vital to understand that it is 100% true. Courts are not interested in how litigants “feel,” either. As harsh as it may sound, the Law cannot afford to engage in the emotional aspects of any given matter it simply can’t. So, having made this clear, anyone who is intending on divorcing from a sociopath should, without fail and across the board, seek strong counseling therapy with someone that “gets it” about what they experienced. The counselor will hear, identify, and assist in the emotional carnage and help the client move towards recovery. The attorney requires facts, only.

Get tested for STDs

If the spath had one or many affairs, get tested for STDs immediately, prior to filing your divorce. Every State (to my knowledge) provides punitive damages to be awarded for a spouse who received a STD from their philandering husband or wife. In some States, these damages cannot be bankrupted and can be very harsh. Additionally, collect all medical information that may be pertinent to your case with regard to disability and medical conditions.

Keep emotions out of your fact finding

Collecting information about the divorce can be a frustrating experience be prepared for this and separate the emotion from the processes. Gathering financial documentation, joint account information, personal credit reports, vital documentation (marriage certificates, etc.), and any physical evidence of malfeasance requires a very cool head. We cannot accomplish these tasks if we are running hot on emotion. We can become hysterical when a banking representative responds that we must pay $1 per page for transaction records, or when someone is short with us, or even if someone is kind to us. Get that emotion out of your system before making phone calls or walking into offices.

When the complaint is drafted for the divorce action, this document speaks specifically about why you are seeking a legal divorce, and what you will present to support this matter. Name-calling, insulting, and bashing are not allowed, although the spath’s attorney will likely resort to these tactics. These tactics may be abominable, but they have a purpose: to place the plaintiff on the defensive.

As an example, Kerby’s response to my complaint was that I was obese, lazy, and a “failed artist.” These words were intended to incite outrage and a strong emotional response. Because I was involved in counseling therapy, I was able to process this effort for what it was, and remain detached from the emotional outrage in counter-responses. This is not to say that these claims didn’t infuriate me, because the most certainly did! But, that outrage was addressed in counseling and not on the phone with my attorney.

Read over the complaint draft and make absolute certain that your attorney presents facts, only. No insults, no “feelings,” and no conjecture: facts, only. If the defendant (soon-to-be-ex) has failed to pay utilities, then make this clear without accusations or emotional rants and substantiate this claim with documentation. Make certain that your complaint says only what needs to be said, and nothing more. Make certain that all facts are accurate: dates, names, financial information, etc., all must be 100% accurate and supported with evidence.

Maintain control at all times in court

In the courtroom during hearings, there will be intense anxiety. It is unavoidable. Donna suggested that I express and release my anxiety, anger, rage, disappointment, despair, and grief BEFORE appearing in court in any healthy way that I was able to. This advice was priceless. Releasing the emotion prior to appearances prevents the emotions from spilling out in the courtroom. If necessary, speak to your physician about your anxiety and definitely keep your counseling therapist in the loop, at all times.

Courtroom outbursts are simply not allowed. Any emotional display, such as, “He’s LYING!” or, “She’s CRAZY!” will not, under any circumstances, win any points for you. Even rolling your eyes, sighing, or shaking your head in disgust is not going to do you any service. Quiet, reserved dignity is essential. Let the spath slip a cog and rant in the courtroom, but you are in control of your behaviors and you are not obligated to react to lies you have provided your attorney with the necessary documentation to prove your case, and that’s it.

Tell your attorney everything in advance so there are no surprises in court

Let your attorney do the talking, always, and make sure that you are both on the same proverbial page. Tell your attorney if there are issues that you do not want brought up and, specifically, why. He/she will be prepared to counter any sneak-attacks by the spath’s attorney. If there are issues of custody/visitation before the court, remain calm and factual. Accusations of bad parenting, etc., are not going to be entertained by the court. Only facts need be presented, and you will be keeping a factual log throughout these processes that will only contain dates, times, actions, and results. No emotional observations or accusations are allowed save the emotion for your counseling sessions.

Don’t discuss details with children or outsiders

If your legal matter involves children in common, keep the children out of all adult matters. I cannot stress this strongly enough. DISALLOW any discussion of what the other parent is, has done, is doing, or any child support discussions. You are not obligated to explain your actions to your children and a simple, “I’m not discussing these matters with you. They are between your mother/father and me, and regardless of our differences, we both still love you.” A spath parent in a divorce/custody/visitation matter is going to do everything within their power to force innocent children to choose sides. If you respond to your child’s demands to “know” everything, you’ll only be playing the same vicious games that the spath is playing, and this will only further damage the children. Counseling sessions for the children may be a very good option, as well.

Although we are compelled to do this, it is a personal imperative that we not discuss our divorce proceedings with others except our closest friends, family, and/or counseling therapist. Divorcing a sociopath is unlike any other drama/trauma that we’re equipped to process and “outsiders” will quickly either tire of our emotional state, or they’ll eagerly drink up the drama/trauma for their own purposes. Do not discuss details of your case with anyone other than your attorney and counselor. Well-meaning people will open their mouths at the most inopportune times to bring up your dirty laundry as a part of the human condition.

Know in advance what outcomes are possible

Finally, remember that you aren’t the first person to experience this and, sadly, you will not be the last. The Laws in most States in the U.S. maintain “no fault” divorce which means that nobody is held to be “at fault” for the collapse of a contract of marriage. Court involves “equitable distribution,” only, and it is imperative that you understand that you’re not going to be awarded punitive damages because he/she has slept with half of the town’s population, defrauded you of your personal finances, or any other misdeed or misconduct.

Nobody “wins” any divorce/custody/visitation matter except the representing attorneys. Be prepared for this fact and make sure that your attorney explains this to you, in detail. It is a very rare event that one party walks away with the whole kielbasa and the other party is left destitute when assets, incomes, and personal property are “distributed equitably.” It may not be “fair,” but it is a fact that will not be changed unless and until “No Fault Divorce” is either amended, or repealed.

The ultimate “win” will be to keep your self-respect in tact

Cool heads prevail in courtrooms, and it’s very easy to get caught up in the drama/trauma of it all. Spaths create such widespread carnage that we want everyone to understand and appreciate what was done to us. Divorce court is not the venue to accomplish this task, if there even is one that’s appropriate outside of counseling sessions and this blog site. Separating the emotion from facts will not only assist your attorney in preparing your case, but you will likely be amazed that your worst fears don’t manifest inside the courtroom after all is said and done. Keeping the emotion out of your legal matters will allow you to process the events and recover more quickly and with a sense of accomplishment, regardless of how your matter is settled.



Comment on this article

83 Comments on "Fact v. Feeling: “Disorder” in Divorce"

Notify of

GREAT article and wonderful, timely and OHHHHH so TRUE advice…in dealing with any legal situation involved with a psychopath.

THANK YOU!!!!!!! for this very excellent article! OHHH MY, sure did need to see this now…

I think I just put two and two together…never realized before who Adelade was! Good article…great info for people who are divorcing.

OUTSTANDING ARTICLE ~

I hope everyone who is going through, or about to go through a divorce or custody proceeding reads this, digests this and follows it to the “T”.

Mine was a custody case. My therapist sat me down and told me, you present facts and facts only to your attorney, then let him do his job. You present all your emotions to me and let me do my job and help you deal with it. My therapist’s father was a well known Judge, so she understood this concept.

It was the BEST advice I had ever been given.

Again, Great Article Adelade.

Yes! I will definitely need this advice next week, when I will probably be hearing from the spath-hole’s atty; because of $5000 i withdrew from our joint acct, last week. I reside in Ohio, so it will be interesting to see how it goes! Hummm, i did nothing legally wrong? I needed the money. Ahhh, but it was ok for him to close down the joint checking account last June, because I called him out on finding out about him being on adultfriendfinder.com thru his credit card statement? Ohhhhhh, that was ok?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Radar ~

I’m from Ohio also. Oh, please believe this article and follow it, although it is difficult when your head is about to explode. If you don’t have a therapist yet, that you can vent the emotional stuff with, I suggest you come on here and vent all you want. But, leave the emotions out of each and every part of the legal side, including talking to an attorney.

Good luck to you.

WOW!!! This is an awesome article. Thank You!!!!

I don’t have any legal dealings, but this makes me think of how many situations I could use this information. Legal or not, keeping emotions in check, so I can think straight, is key. I interact with quite a few dysfunctional patients and family’s, so this is good good good to keep in mind.

Thanks MiLo, appreciate your comments. I was just telling myself again, ughhhhhhhh, com’on…get a grip on yourself! I have to, before i get the news in the mail. Was thinking, if i cam just do away with my emotions…..but then i would be just like him. 🙁

Radar_On, sweetie, we don’t “do away with (our) emotions” because we can’t. What I had to learn to do was to acknowledge my feelings, express them, and then get down to business.

A lot of my reactions were fear-based, and why not? I was left with nothing but change in a jar, a house in foreclosure, all utilities 3 months (or, more) in arrears, a vehicle payment in arrears, and in the worst physical/medical state that I had been in my life. I was running around just waiting for the sky to fall, the earth to implode, and for some ex-convict-hitman to burst through the door to kill me.

My counselor taught me a very priceless mantra: “Feelings are NOT facts.” Because our “feelings” have been so thoroughly discarded, dismissed, dismantled, and destroyed by the spaths, and FACTS have been altered, warped, twisted, and perverted BY the spaths, I don’t care WHO we are, it’s a whole-self devastation: financially, emotionally, spiritually, sexually, physically…….every level of our whole beings are ruptured and left for dead.

So……having typed all of that, there is quite a difference in feeling the emotions and setting them aside to conduct business AND not having emotions, to begin with. You have a conscience which is why you “felt badly” about taking money out of the account – you felt SHAME for taking what was rightfully yours because you NEEDED it to pay bills, buy food, etc. Don’t you DESERVE to eat? Don’t you DESERVE to have heat during the winter? Aren’t you WORTHY of support?

You are not “like him,” on any level. You have a conscience and sense of remorse. He, on the other hand, does not.

Search the site for “cognitive dissonance” and “shame-core.” Then, when the emotions and fear start running riot, tell yourself that this is BUSINESS.

Brightest blessings of encouragement

Radar ~

Oh, no, no, no. Don’t do away with your emotions, just file them in another folder.

At the right time, with the right people, bring them out, feel them and recover. Just don’t do it in the legal arena.

(((hugs)))

Thanky you TS and MiLo, for your insight and encouraging words. I Need to get to the library, so I can print off some of this thread. I am no longer connected to the internet, and can only use my phone to read and post. Sooo very glad Lovefraud is here. Nobody i know of gets what has/is happening, and what it feels like. Best wishes to all 🙂

I appreciate this article because it helps us to see there are times,such as in the legal arena,when emotions simply ‘get in the way’.Emotions NEED TO BE EXPRESSED-but in the appropriate places,at the appropriate time.Timely reminder.

This article is perfect. I wish I had seen it before my divorce nightmare. I’d add one thing though. You must make sure you have a reputable and competent attorney. If you don’t, you will be “raped a second time” by the legal profession. That’s what happened to me. I hired a psychopath to help me divorce the psychopath I was married to, and because my lawyer was also a psychopath who didn’t give a rats ass about me or my kids it didn’t matter what I did right or wrong. I was doomed from the beginning. A psychopathic ex who was most likely represented by a psychopathic lawyer, and my own psychopathic lawyer as my only hope. What chance did I have? Fortunately God is bigger than any evil the spaths can throw my way and I ended up with my kids (thank God!) but financially I am ruined.

Good point lovingthem, about the attorney. Here are some things I learned the hard way.

1) hire an attorney who SPECIALIZES in whatever you are facing, divorce and/or custody. Make sure most, if not all his/her cases and experiences is in that field.

2) hire an attorney who PRIMARILY if not exclusively practices in the particular court you will be in. Same county, district where your case will be heard

3) research, ask questions, to see if the attorney you are hiring is well respected in the court and by the Magistrates/Judges that will be hearing your case

Yes, Milo. Those are wonderful tips for helping with hiring a lawyer. I missed it in all three areas. He did do divorces, but that was not his specialty and I have no idea if he was experienced in divorce with psychopathic spouses. He was not from my district and was virtually unknown by the judge. What a colossal failure on my part. I just hope and pray that I will be able to help someone else one day to not make the same mistakes I made. What’s done is done in my case, but plenty more women are suffering and will continue to suffer. Lord, help us to help them.

lovingthem ~

All my tips came from almost 9 years of custody hearings. I finally caught on with the 4th attorney (hopefully the last I will need). You are right, if we can just help someone else so they will not need to repeat our mistakes.

I found you can learn valuable information on Magistrates, Judges, GAL’s and Attorneys from the people on the fringe of the court. If you have an opportunity to look up records in the Clerk of Courts office, always be pleasant and respectful, maybe apologizing for putting them to so much trouble and saying thank you. You would not believe what I learned there, without even asking leading questions. I was looking up a motion that our GAL had filed, the clerk asked who our GAL was – I gave her name and the clerk replied, “Oh no, not that bit**” Ok, somehow I knew I was in trouble….. She then asked who our Magistrate was, I told her and she replied “Don’t believe what you may have heard, she is tough, but she is fair” …….. She then asked who our attorney was – I told her and she said “Perfect, he has gray hair and is known and respected by everyone here.” Now, I had to ask – gray hair ????? She said, “yes, your Magistrate only respects the older attorneys”

Wow !!! Oh, and she was right the GAL was a bit**. The Magistrate was fair and our attorney, gray hair and all was a totally respected professional and that is what saved us. And, this time, all the i’s were dotted and t’s were crossed, which is also of great importance.

Good article thank you.

I am about to embark on this journey, one facet was not covered and I’d like some help with this.

“express and release my anxiety, anger, rage, disappointment, despair, and grief BEFORE appearing in court in any healthy way that I was able to. This advice was priceless.”

How do I do this?

Speakout – To release your emotions, you need to allow yourself to feel them. That means you cry, moan, yell, pound your fists, stamp your feet – whatever you need to do to. This is not pretty, so it’s best done alone, or with a therapist who can help you. I think alone is best. You let it rip, feel the emotions until you feel a release.

You’ll probably have to do this multiple times. As you release some emotion, others will well up to take its place.

The key is not to bottle up your anger, disappointment, betrayal, etc. You don’t to explode at an inappropriate time or place – such as in court.

Speakout,

For sadness and grief: I had a pity-party ritual… Get a friend over (who knew what ‘pity party’ meant), put on a tearjerker movie (terms of Endearment, The Champ, any movie with which you never can keep your eyes dry, no matter how often you see it); a box of hankies to sniff in, a box of chocolate mouse or ice cream, and a bottle of something strong (not to empty it, but to get emotions flowing… and thus not bottling it up). I would do this on a friday night or so, and then just cry, and hug the friend, and they’d cry too… a literaly pity-party. (Note: I NEVER drink alone! It can be done without the alcohol too… And as I said, I used it for a glass to get the ball rolling, not to drown in it)

For anger: I fantasised throwing imaginary china plates at the ex. Every shattered plate stood for the release of a particular anger regarding a particular event. Since it was all imaginary, nobody could get hurt. I couldn’t actually do it physically, because I was recovering from a knee operation at the time. But you could get 2nd hand china and smash them to smithereens in a box in a garage. Or smash eggs to a wall, which you can hoze clean afterwards. The destruction of the plate or egg should symbolize something specific, and once it breaks it also means it’s been released and let go off. It’s smashed, so you can’t pick it up again and attack with it again. First there will seem to be no end to it. Every time you do it, there’s still an enormous amount of rage of stuff you hadn’t been angry about yet so far. But in time, it gradually lessens (took me about 2 months). Instead of a 2-daily, it becomes a weekly, and then every few weeks and eventually rarely.

The important thing is that you allot time and space for these feelings: you allow yourself to feel it… but because you plan it, private and appropriate times, it doesn’t harm others nor yourself. You’re not in control of the emotion, but you are in control about WHEN and HOW. And the last, but not least advantage it’s actually great fun!

Speakout, I’m sorry that you’re facing this ordeal, but you can make it through this process with dignity and courage.

Donna & Darwinsmom are spot-on. “Releasing” the emotion is vital because those feelings are REAL.

Seeking cousneling therapy doesn’t mean that there’s something “wrong” with us. It just means that we recognize that spath damage is WAY beyond the human ability to process.

Journaling is another good exercise in releasing the emotion. And, by “journaling,” I mean using a notebook and writing utensil to pour out everything in written word. The reason for using paper and pen instead of a computer or other technological device is that the simple ACT of putting my feelings on paper connects me – literally – to the words that I’m writing and the feelings that I’m expressing.

Brightest blessings of support and encouragement

Thank you for your suggestions. I had a time remembering where I asked this question and kept getting sidetracked!

I wonder why my counsellor hasn’t suggested this. It seems spot on. I’ve been doing this without really understanding why, but since going on anti depressants it’s not so easy for me to cry. Oh the irony!

Physically I’m not well, or I’d run around the block a few times.

It’s blowing off steam isn’t it? So obvious now that I see it 🙂 🙂

Speakout, it may be an option to start asking your counselor for techniques and tools. Unless I had made it clear that I wasn’t engaging in sessions to just “talk,” I don’t know if my counselor would have given me tools and management techniques.

I identify with the physical limitations. I used to rant and rave when I was driving, alone. I’m sure that passersby must have thought I was crazier than a shithouse rat! My face would be livid and I would be screaming at the tops of my lungs! LOL. Even throwing eggs at a tree gets it out of our systems – there is something extremely satisfying about hearing and seeing the “SPLAT” that an egg makes whn the Laws of Physics are applied.

Brightest blessings

EDIT ADD: the computer that I’ve been using finally bid a “Fare thee well” so I’m using an old cell phone that connects to WiFi even withou cell service. So, there will be MANY typos to come!

I went thru a divorce with a spath. The spath played the courts, lied, and my atty. never presented anything. Prior to the trial, the Judge summoned myself, and my atty. in her chambers-no court reporter-and stated that I would loose everything, if I proceed with the trial, she would give me over to the States attorneys office on a felony for abusing the power of attorney. My attorney never said a word, and I spent months to give my attorney every piece of documentation-he did absolutely nothing. I walked out with 10,000 and lost everything. Three days before the trial
I discovered that the spath had closed out an investment fund over 85,000, and nothing was done. I never thought
people like this existed, now I do. It made me stronger. I
knew the attorneys were all being played by the spath and they were getting paid off. I contacted the IRS, and told them everything. My attorney was relunctant when the IRS
was to meet in the attorneys office, because he knew he would implicated down the road. Spaths are bullys. They
labeled me crazy in the court, and during my deposition, they were going to appoint a guardian ad litem. The spath and the spath attorney had wanted me to take a psychological test that was 6 hours long. I was threatened by the Judge, that if I did not take this test , I would be sent to prison. I took the test, and the Dr. stated that I was not disordered, it was a conspiracy. My attorney knew I never abused the poa, and that the spath and his spath brother never paid corporation taxes over 14 yrs, so if he was not going to turn him in, I did. Hope justice is served.

Dear Edge of sanity,

Unfortunately, we don’t always get justice in the courts, sometimes not even in this life time….but don’t give up! There is liife after the psychopath. (((Hugs))) and God bless.

Howdy to All,

I am new to this blog and I’m getting so much out of the articles and a lot more out of what all you guys are sharing.

Thank you “Truthspeaks” for sharing what you did about our emotions and putting them aside for business. I too, really need to hear that since my divorce is coming up as well. Holding myself together is the last thing I can think of when I would much rather “””feel””” like jumping over the court tables and choking every inch of life of him!! This article has been VERY helpful!!

Hope all goes well for you Radar_On!!

Hey Speakout,

I can relate to you with all the anger, rage anxiety etc.!! Big time!! I really like what Donna and darwinsmom said. You can also email yourself on your own personal email and just let it rip. There are so many things I’m sure you might want to tell your ex/soon to be, so you can say it here and even delete it afterwards. This way, you release it and get some anger out. This has helped me tremendously…also getting on the eliptical machine and doing some exercise!! (I too, have a long way to go in this process.)

Hang in there Gal, you will get through this and be a stronger person!!

God Bless…

Freedombound, welcome to LoveFraud, and I’m glad that you found this site. Reading, processing, and posting during (and, after) your legal matters will be invaluable in your recovery.

Brightest blessings

UPDATE: In Nov. 2011, the spath-hole that I am married to (we’re not divorced yet) bought a 2005 Honda for me. (now i know it was just another way of him having a control over me). He has made all of the car payments thus far. With my current financial situation, there is no way I can do $300 for the car. So he has been paying on this gift he purchased since then. He is primary on the loan, i am secondary. The vehicle is in my name, i pay the insurance. NOW: Seeing as i have “blown his spathy cover” he knows blown. I do know for a fact he wants to buy a new sport utility vehicle this spring, sooo that is why he NOW wants the car back! He knows i cant afford the car payments, i believe he wants the vehicle back so he can use it for a trade in! Last nite i get this txt message from him: “next week my attorney will call you, so you can read the paperwork… if you don’t want the car, I will take it. Sign it over to me, if you do not agree we will take it to court! You will pay half of court and I will pay half of court!” (end txt). Upon seeing this, i thought, WTF!!!!! He must be out of his freaking mind, To think that I would engage in a conversation with his atty over the phone! The last time I talk to him, I told him, you are going to pay for the car, because of all the shady s*** you were doing behind my back! So now he’s trying to blow smoke up my arse, for him to think that I would fall for his intimidation tactic? And I know for a fact, he does not want to pay for the car, and he does not want it to be taken in a repossession,, because that would go against his credit. Besides if he can chisel the car back out of me, he can use the car he bought for me as a freakin trade in! Ohhhhhhhh, This is going to get very interesting indeed! Any input on this matter would be greatly appreciated! (yeah, there are no bus service is not that I can utilize if I don’t have a car, and no, certainly no help from family. They are in no position to help me.)

Radar_On, first of all, who contacted you with regard to this vehicle? His attorney? You do NOT SPEAK to his attorney – let YOUR attorney speak for you.

Next, you do NOT discuss the shady shit that the exspath (soon to be) has done and attempt to use his actions as some sort of veiled threat or bargaining tool.

Lastly, you have a choice, here. You can allow your attorney to do their job, or you can try to do it YOUR way. I just finished my divorce in January, and I lost real estate equity in the amount of 40K. I lost my only mode of transportation in a repossession. I lost about 300K from coercion and outright forgeries. I lost a job that I very much enjoyed. I lost a great many things, Radar. But, what I did NOT lose was my cool. That is NOT to say that I didn’t get on this blog and rant, vent, and carry on about my situations, but I did not try to do my attorney’s job for her.

Whenever a threat comes up, it’s a trigger to FEAR. WHAT IF I LOSE MY CAR?!?! WHAT IF?!?! It’s an intentional trigger, as well – make a snap decision without thinking anything through or discussing it with your attorney. HURRY!! HURRY!!!! The spath believes that you will make a decision out of fear that will benefit him – so does his attorney. THIS is why it’s best to rant, vent, and entertain the understandable fear in a “safe” environment like this blog or with a strong counseling therapist. Do NOT take panic to your attorney – they are working within the confines of the Law and are not counseling therapists.

The response that would BEST serve you, at all times, is simply this, “Speak to my attorney. Goodbye.” Do not attempt to tell the spath all about himself. Do not attempt to tell HIS attorney what he is. Save all of that venom for your counseling therapist and this blog.

Right now, at this very moment, concentrate on controlling your breathing, observing where you are (physically recognize), describe to yourself what you are physically touching, smelling, hearing, etc…..get yourself back into the present. Then, tomorrow, let the dipshit and his attorney contact YOUR attorney.

I hope this is helpful to you.

Brightest blessings

EDIT ADD: Radar, it just occurred to me that a 2005 vehicle shouldn’t cost $300 per month. Ever. Did you ever close out your joint bank accounts? Did you ever get joint bank records that reflect deposits and withdrawals (including joint credit cards)? It may be a good idea to focus on gathering documentation on finances, this week. Don’t worry about the vehicle – he cannot, by Law, take it from you and, if he stops making payments, it takes a LONG time for a vehicle to be repossessed. Avoid trying to predict what’s going to happen – attempts to predict only entertain our very worst fears.

Radar,
As long as you are financially bound (co-signer ) to the dipshit, he will be able to twist and manipulate you.
I am not sure of your situation but if you cant get the car loan and title in your own name then I would give it back to dipshit, otherwise he has a hook that prevents you from moving on and staying no contact..And no that is not fair but nothing is when it comes to dipshits..count your loss’es and get out and get on with a new life without the dipshit..
just my opinion.

Hi Tspeak! He must have given his attorney my phone number, And his attorney called my phone and left me a voicemail. His attorney said in the voicemail, That I could call his office and speak to him personally To talk about the separation agreement. Just LOlol! His attorney calling me, is that proper decorum fom the opposing litigants atty to call me????? That right there, just blows me off my chair!!!! Truth speak, I am so very very very sorry about your losses. I cant imagine that, but I may come close to it in my divorce. Thanks for your input! And no, I have no intention of engaging in a conversation, over the phone with his attorney!

Moon, I agree with you as long as Radar is communicating with the dipshit and/or his attorney. Once she puts an end to the communication and allows her own attorney to do her talking, she doesn’t have to put each fear in its respective mail slot.

Right now, it’s just a demand. If the vehicle is in her name with him as the primary obligor, then HE is responsible for making the payments, first. And, again, it takes a good, long while for a vehicle to be repossessed.

Spot-on about the “No Contact.” Any communication with the asshat spath OR his attorney only results in emotional chaos.

Brightest blessings

Radar, the title is in your name. You will lose the car if you can’t pay for it, so sell it and buy something YOU can afford. Use the equity from the sale. Get the cheapest car you can get.

Furthermore, if you do that you’re insurance will probably go down.

Personally, I would get a junker until the divorce is final. So if he is awarded your car, he won’t want it.

Remember, when you’re trying to get rid of a spath, you have to be a gray rock. Be something that he would never envy, have nothing that he would want.

Moondancer, appreciate your comments. Thank you. 🙂

Radar – excellent. Next time you speak to your attorney, just run a “Civil Restraining Order” against him/her. The “benefit” is that it creates an environment of “No Contact” and his attorney must, by Law, speak to YOUR attorney.

Don’t even return the attorney’s call, but save the voicemail. They’re working on triggering fear, that’s all.

Atta girl! 😀

Skylar, good suggestion except she cannot legally sell it without HIS signature on the sale, since he is the primary obligor. He’s not going to sign anything that will benefit Radar, so I’d recommend allowing the attorneys to duke it out over lunch.

For the time being, he’s just trying to force her to make a snap decision. And, until there is a threat of repossession, I wouldn’t make too much of the demand, right now.

EDIT ADD: Radar, with regard to “proper decorum,” it’s not illegal for his attorney to contact you, but it most certainly is never a good idea to speak to ANYONE who represents a sociopath’s “best interests.” Attorneys do this, all of the time. If a “Civil Restraining Order” is issued, that ends any communication outside of your attorney. A “Civil Restraining Order” is not a criminal matter – it is an agreement between parties that they will not contact one another and requires a motion in the event that the CRO is violated. It’s a “kinder, gentler” type of “Order Of No Contact.”

Dont know if i can sell it, he is the primary on the loan, and the loan is through his credit union. Appreciate your input, Skyler. I don’t know what’s going to happen, if he gets that car back off of me, his humiliating me will come to complete fruition, and his laughter echoing in my head, will resonate till the day I die. Yeah, he will win.

I’m sorry ladies, yes I am triggered, and am having a really really really really really hard time right now. Thank you….

Radar, no need to apologize, for crissakes! I’ve been there in that state of panic, NUMEROUS times. You outta read some of my posts from a year ago!!!! LMAO!!!

Right now, he cannot do anything TO you, or the vehicle. He can’t. He could stop payments, but you suggested that he is interested in his credit – he won’t likely stop payment, if this is true. He cannot take the vehicle from you, legally, because it is in YOUR possession and is registered in your name. Period.

The vehicle cannot be sold without his signature. He will not sign anything that might even remotely benefit you. Ever.

So, you received this call from his attorney on Friday? A typical panic-tactic to create anxiety throughout the weekend. See it for what it is: a game.

You’re going to be okay. (((HUGS)))

Radar and Truthy,
I was unaware that the primary loan holder had to sign off.
Maybe getting your attorney’s advice would be the best idea so you can strategize in advance.

Edit:
it just occurred to me that he may be trying to maximize his debt by buying another, newer car. That way, when the divorce goes through, you will be liable for half of his debt and also half of his car.

Skylar, ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON!!!! But, in the State where my divorce took place, parties are prohibited from buying or selling assets once a separation has taken place.

GOOD POINT on the maximizing debt, though – sign nothing! The dipshit exspath tried to terrify me into filing for JOINT bankruptcy with him, remember? Now, the bankruptcy attorney was retained by the exspath, NOT me, and if I had filed jointly, all of the exspath’s debts in his name would suddenly become MY responsibility, equally. So, after Ch. 7 was filed, the dipshit exspath could legally file individual Ch. 13, be absolved of all debts, and I would still legally be saddled with 1/2 of HIS outstanding debts! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!! Boy, did I have a weeklong meltdown over that!!!

EDIT ADD: As much as we would like to be able to control how our legal matters unfold, allowing attorneys to do their jobs is extremely important. They are aware of what the Laws provide for, and a good attorney will be up-front about equitable distribution, how debts affect a case, and how to best intercept bullshit demands. Let the attorney do their job.

She cant sell it if dipshit is still making pymts, that means there is a lean on it, that would just get her in deep doodoo..
If this is part of the divorce settlement let the attorny’s work it out. Either he pays off the loan and the car is yours free and clear and only your name on the title or give it back. thats what I would do,,otherwise your givng the co-signer ( any co-signer ) control of your well being….Save up a few hundred dollars and go buy you a car…there are car lots that will finance you even with bad credit..
been there dont that Radar..it aint worth it….where do u live Radar?

Moon, precisely – she cannot legally sell it without HIS signature.

Absolutely, let the attorneys duke it out. He’s not going to want that vehicle and he’ll have to settle for half of the outstanding balance on the loan, since they are both cosigners. That is NOT to say that he won’t have to pay the entire amount – that’s something that only the attorneys can work out. It’s all about numbers and “equitable distribution,” not about what’s “fair.”

No, im not going to sign anything. I know he wants the car back to use it as a trade in for a new vehicle for him, and if he does that he will get shear delight out of bending me over and raping my soul yet again. If he wants the vehicle back, he will have to pry it out of my cold dead hands. Anyone remember the movie about Betty Broderick? I understand now, how that lady went completely off the deep end………………

Truthy,
Yes, I remember the tactic you described. He was in a big hurry to get you to sign. It had to be NOW! Of course that tactic USED to work before you knew what spaths do, but you did the right thing: Nothing! hahaha!

I was so happy to hear that you thwarted the mofo on that move. SO HAPPY.

As usual, the best reaction to a spath is NO REACTION.

My own spath tried similar tactics. He said, “we have to get an attorney.” “You have to sign some papers.” “You have to sell the house.”

When I replied, “Then you have to sell the helicopter.” he said, “It has a lien it. S, (the millionaire that gave him 100 grand) put a lien on it.” I asked, “Which county is that filed in?” Spath said, “this county.” Of course that means nothing since he was in one county, I was in another and S was in another. Plus it was all a big fat lie anyway.

Radar, stop seeing yourself as a victim, now – yes, you were brutalized by a thing that has no soul, but it’s time to put your Big Girl Pants on, get angry, and get very, very COLD. Put the emotions aside and save them for your journal, counseling therapist, and rants on this site. But, when you are dealing in legal matters, entertain it for no longer than 15 minutes (set a timer, I’m not joking), then get very, very cold.

He’s not going to pry the vehicle away from you. Right now, he can’t do Anything with it, to it, about it, etc.

You’re going to be okay. Just come back to the present, stop attempting to predict, and get frosty and icy!!!

Skylar, the best bit about not filing that joint bankruptcy came AFTER the divorce. Because the property is under a short-sale contract and the home equity loan was forgiven (oh, yes – it was “forgiven” by the bank!), HE DOES NOT HAVE enough debt-to-income-ratio to even file for personal bankruptcy!!!!! He’s going to be paying out to his creditors until his eyes bleed………..and, he cannot file for bankruptcy OR increase his debt in order to do so!!!

LMAOLMAOLMAO

<3 thank you, ladies <3

well I co-signed for my sweetdipstick a nice car ( bad mistake ) talk about a nitemare….
well eventually i talked him into letting me sell that car and I bought him a 1000 dollar car and gladly put the title in his name only~! ( I mean he had to have wheels in order to leave ) i mean I aint heartless ~!!!

Ohio

Send this to a friend