How to recognize and recover from the sociopaths – narcissists in your life › Forums › Lovefraud Community Forum – General › Accusations against Marilyn Manson
February 11, 2021 at 12:30 pm #65135
I have been following this story with interest. On February 1 rockstar Marilyn Manson’s ex Evan Rachel Wood accused him of abuse, brainwashing, and manipulation.
Since then the accusations against him have snowballed with many of his exes speaking out and accusing him of emotional abuse, physical abuse, and sexual abuse.
I messaged Evan on Instagram letting her know I support her and that this website has helped me to understand these types of people. Don’t know if she ever read my message but her Instagram stories do refer to other material on sociopaths and narcissists.
Seems like finally the dynamic of sociopathy in romantic relationships is coming more to light in the media. I hope these people will continue to be exposed and that the general public will become more educated on this personality disorder.
February 11, 2021 at 3:13 pm #65140
sept4 – Stories like these are compelling because of their stardom and the media attention. I do feel more and more stories like these are making headlines and bringing attention to these disordered personalities. R. Kelly comes to mind as another narcissistic disordered personality.
Thanks for sharing this information!
February 11, 2021 at 3:25 pm #65141
Yes I think it is so good that this is public now and people are discussing this.
There needs to be an education campaign on these personality disorders. To bring awareness on social media and in schools so people learn to recognize this dynamic. With topics like:
How sociopaths first present:
– extremely charming and charismatic
– love bombing
How they slowly groom you for abuse:
– isolating you
– controlling you
– lowering your self esteem
How the abuse creates a trauma bond:
– mix of abuse with fake “love”
– emotional bond by the victim
– you feel loyal to the abuser
– you feel scared and too weak to stand up to him
How the abuse escalates if you leave him or stand up to him:
– undermining your credibility
– threats against your property
– threats against your person
This whole toxic dynamic should be explained in a government information campaign to raise awareness. To finally begin a counter offensive of information against these creeps.
February 11, 2021 at 4:24 pm #65143
sept4- You’ve done a great job of covering all of the bases listing the graduating phases of a relationship with disordered personalities. It’s a step by step look at how everything evolves. I think you have the makings of a very informational book in your hands!
Although this would make a great piece of work, I would agree with you that it needs to go beyond the bookshelves. It needs to be brought forth in another format or venue so it can reach the wider community in a campaign as you suggest. Perhaps in a documentary on one of the major networks such as CNN.
One thing I will add in my personal assessment of the narcissistic personality is that I really feel they are very insecure human beings. Why would anyone need their ego boosted like they do if they actually had a healthy sense of self worth? My ex used to tell me “that I was a good woman and I would be good for him.” To that I replied, “do you think my attributes will rub off on you?”
They prey on not only kind, caring and empathetic people, but people who are successful, financially stable and have good relationships with their family. This again, makes them look good and feel less insecure and more confident. I truly believe a deep seated insecurity lurks within them and contributes to their disordered personality.
February 11, 2021 at 5:14 pm #65144
sept4- Just watching MSNBC and their recap of today’s portion of the Impeachment Trial. One guest was discussing Trump’s lack of remorse and comparing it to a sociopath.
He went on to say that he has no soul. He also said with a dereliction of duty any normal person knows what the duty is. With Trump and his sociopath personality he sees no duty, takes no responsibility and has no remorse.
In the last 4 years I have always compared Trump’s personality to a narcissistic sociopath much like my ex. I’ve also worked for a sociopath who was very successful, yet like Trump would fire anyone who did not agree with him or was not loyal and would also not pay his attorneys if he felt they were not defending him the way he thought they should which included lying for him. I’ve often said to my former colleagues Trump and my boss could have been twins separated at birth.
I hope my reference to Trump is not offending anyone’s political viewpoint. That is certainly not my intention, rather I’m acknowledging what I recognize from my past experiences.
February 11, 2021 at 6:11 pm #65145
Funluv yes I agree with you as to Trump. I made a thread about him before but it was deleted so maybe we are not allowed to discuss it.
But yes I agree and Trump reminds me very much of my ex. They even look alike.
And I am politically conservative so it’s not a matter of politics. I would vote Republican for any normal candidate.
February 11, 2021 at 8:06 pm #65146
sept4- I agree, it is not coming from any particular political affiliation on my part, merely recognizing some very similar personality traits.
I feel it is a big accomplishment given my relationship with my ex. I’m now able to zero in and recognize disordered personalities.
There is another TV reality personality on Married at First Sight on the Lifetime channel who has a distinct narcissistic sociopathic personality. Kind of an ah, ha moment for me to notice these types now. Hoping my instincts will serve me well going forward.
February 11, 2021 at 8:33 pm #65147thesmithsParticipant
I thought this came out a few years ago, but it was speculation about him being the reason she was instrumental in getting this CA state law passed:
He always seemed so creepy – his talent isn’t in his music (mediocre, IMHO)but in his shock value of monster makeup & stage name. It’s like the hallmark of a personality disordered individual to try to get adulation and lots of money for doing not much except shocking you. Maybe am reading too much into it.
Sorry if the following is a repeat. Mandy Moore outed her ex-husband Ryan Adams as being an emotional abuser, undermining her career and a prolific cheater. He pretended to help up & coming very young female musicians (some under 18) with their careers only to use and toss.
(Never mind! The NYT is strange about which stories they hide behind their paywall.)
Here’s a story about James Franco seducing underage girls.
Adams’ & Franco’s careers took a hit, but believe the burden of proof wasn’t met to lock up these two monsters for a long time.
February 11, 2021 at 9:12 pm #65153
Hi Smiths yes Manson’s ex helped get that law passed but she never wanted to name her abuser. There was speculation that it was him but she never confirmed.
Then recently on February 1 she was finally ready to name him in her Instagram post. And the story took off from there because then a bunch of other exes spoke up about the same abuse. And now he is getting investigated and possibly criminally charged.
There are state legislators writing to the FBI asking to investigate him. So looks like there will be a lot of pressure to charge him now. And his record label and talent agency etc have all dropped him.
February 11, 2021 at 9:16 pm #65155
February 11, 2021 at 9:19 pm #65156
Here is another good Instagram page about sociopath abuse.
February 11, 2021 at 10:03 pm #65157thesmithsParticipant
Sept4, Yeah, I read it the day when the story broke. Am hoping something will come of it beyond him, but kind of doubt it.
February 12, 2021 at 9:23 am #65160
I would love to see more national exposure and education regarding disordered personalities. Unless you’ve had an experience or are in the field of therapy most have no idea the ramifications these personalities can have on unsuspecting victims.
Besides the websites and numerous books out there I would like to see a national campaign similar to the “Me Too” movement to educate and support the masses. Most of us don’t realize what has happened until after the fact and at that point the damage has been done.
I feel there is a huge community that could come together and bring an awareness to this devastating topic.
As I read the many posts on this site as well as vent with my own venting I’ve often wondered if there are seminars or retreats out there to support us? Perhaps Donna could weigh in on this? I’m all about self-help and would definitely consider traveling to a seminar and /or retreat. There is power in numbers!
February 12, 2021 at 1:10 pm #65162
Funluv yes unfortunately even many therapists have no idea about these personality disorders in relationships. The default approach they are taught is that relationship problems are caused by both partners equally and can be resolved by communication and compromise.
While that is true for normal couples, with a disordered person communication and compromise will get you nowhere. And the problems are the fault of the disordered person, not both partners equally.
But most therapists don’t know how to recognize those disordered persons and how to see through the lies. They just don’t understand and don’t recognize the dynamic.
There is urgent need for information and education campaigns about these disorders and how they present in both romantic scenarios and counseling scenarios. And the celebrity cases really help with awareness so I’m very glad his ex had the courage to speak up and that so many other exes followed with the same accusations.
February 12, 2021 at 1:59 pm #65167
sept4- I agree and have heard that most couple therapists do not recognize all of the signs of disordered personalities and the sociopath manipulates the therapist same as he manipulates his partner. Reasoning with the disordered personality is fruitless.
I previously worked among many therapists at an eating disorder residential program. They were among the few that actually understood the co-morbid diagnoses for our eating disorder clients. In fact when I described some of the tactics my ex displayed they were the first to point me in the direction of anti-social personality research and books. I was amazed at the similarities and for the first time I understood what had happened to me. Obviously, the therapists were not practicing couples counseling so their experience with our eating disorder clients was much different. Thankfully, they were able to educate me on something I had never experienced until my ex.
February 12, 2021 at 2:50 pm #65173
Funluv yes I was in marital counseling before my breakup and individual counseling after my breakup. My therapist meant well but he did not understand at all. I had to do the research on my own to understand what was happening. And then I basically educated the counselor with the research I found. And eventually he understood and said my ex “is just a con man.”
February 12, 2021 at 3:01 pm #65174
Actually had a flashback today of the first time I realized that my ex was not really a real person.
This was in the very first stage of the breakup when everything was just happening. We went for a walk by a lake to try to talk and sort things out. I was trying to genuinely communicate with him and reach him emotionally. This was before I understood anything about personality disorders so I was still clueless.
While we were walking I kept trying to get some kind of authentic connection or authentic communication but he would just keep his head down and stay silent or say something irrelevant or meaningless. I kept trying because I thought if I just try harder I can reach that genuine person inside.
As I kept trying, I asked him a question but I don’t remember what I asked. He looked up and we made eye contact and I saw his eyes turn very strange. As if he was going through multiple options to see how he could best respond. Not just multiple options, but multiple personalities to try to see which one would give the best result.
It was REALLY creepy and suddenly I realized, what if there is nobody genuine really in there? What if there is no genuine integer personality and all he has is fake personalities that he chooses from depending on what the circumstances require?
Anyway the moment passed and I didn’t understand it so I kept trying to genuinely connect. Eventually I learned about personality disorders and then everything fell into place.
But no amount of reading or research was equal to that single moment of observing his emptiness and lack of an authentic person. There was nobody genuine in there. He was empty and his personalities were fake. It was terrifying to observe.
February 12, 2021 at 7:04 pm #65183
sept4- That had to have been an eye opening creepy experience! You have to wonder how many different personalities they possess. It’s almost as if they have them categorized and instinctively know which one to pull out in order to obtain the calculated response they are looking for.
I remember my ex telling me his uncle had passed away. This was an uncle my ex supposedly took to chemo each week for several weeks, regularly shopped for him, took him to church and also would take his uncle to the nursing home to visit his uncle’s wife. When my ex relayed his uncle’s passing there was no emotion – he could have been talking about the weather. At the time it struck me as odd, but I let it go.
I always thought my ex had a genuine side to him only because it did seem real in the love bombing phase. As things progressed I found myself longing to hear or see that genuine side, however it only appeared occasionally when he either wanted something or wanted to get out of something. What a waste of a human being!
I still think their brains would prove to hold some very fascinating information!
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