How to recognize and recover from the sociopaths – narcissists in your life › Forums › Lovefraud Community Forum – General › Has he finally gone away for good???
March 3, 2018 at 11:07 pm #44358
Thank you for your advice on my previous post under
Fingers crossed the total fraud I wasted 4 years on and tried to break off in the past 8 months has gone away.
With the help of my psychopathy trained counsellor, support of friends and self education about the disorder (specifically, an excellent book by Sandra L Brown, “Women who love psychopaths” (to understand what makes me vulnerable to those people), “The Five Step Exit” by Amber Ault (an excellent exit strategy and recovery resource) and research of psychopathy forums, I was able to combine Grey Rock and with the “slippery eel” (something my counsellor recommended) so that SP formally dumped me (it took 6 weeks for that to happen, there was a bit of hoovering).
The timing worked in my favour, he had to have a surgery and cannot travel to my home town (he lives interstate) so I could return his company car to his friend without seeing him. I am also moving to another area in a week and he does not know.
I would like to move on with my life but have a question for the community:
Is he likely to be back or is his “farewell” email it, considering that his plan to benefit from me financially failed?
His email to me painted him as a victim, and me as a low sexual morals narcissist (considering that I found out he had a wife in another state (and got engaged to me in my home town) and he kept two lives for 4 years, that was a grand comment!).
The rest of the letter vents his anger at my insistence on a pre nuptial agreement (I told him that was not prepared to get married or live with him without one. His comments in his final email were: “it is emotional terrorism and emotional blackmail. A stupid agreement. Two people in love must give each other every dollar if needed (I have a 6 year old boy. Everything I salvaged from my divorce from his dad is for my boy)).
From the 8 pages of venom, it is clear that he did not get the money he was after. The email was venomous and accused me of all evils, ending with his hope that Karma would collect me and me realising how lucky I was with him but it would be late.
I have not responded and not going to, but just want to know if this is likely to be the end.
And what else I can do to protect myself? Note that my parents cannot stand him for different reasons (dad thinks he is “murky”) and my good friends are the same. We had no common friends (he kept me away from his home town).
I am doing a “No contact” now but if there is anything else I can do, would be appreciated.
My counsellor did not think he’d bother with me again as he would be too scared to rock his real family in another town (as he protected the secret at all costs, I did not confront him with evidence I got).
March 4, 2018 at 2:37 pm #44360cfree13Participant
Given what I that I have read and more importantly, all that I have experienced with the N that I was married to for 20 years, I would not count on it – they manage to reappear when you least expect it. My ex-husband hooked up with his a former lover that he had no contact with since 1998 during the final year of our marriage (2016). He continues to contact me – by email only(I have blocked all other avenues but keep email open because we are still tying up the loose ends in our divorce) In his emails he tries alternately to weasel his way back into my life(and his adult children’s) or emotionally abuse me depending on his mood. He even suggested that he come to my place of employment so that we can “communicate like adults” – what is self-preservation to me – no contact – is fifth-grade behavior to him and he has let me know this in no uncertain terms. To be safe I would block him from everything – social media, phone, and email. Never let him know where you live and never, ever respond. Remember, he doesn’t experience fear and his family has been conditioned to see nothing as his fault and to take responsibility for all of his insane behavior – trust me on this – my kids and I were them – until we all decided to block him out of our lives. Best of luck and keep doing what you have been doing :).
- This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by cfree13.
March 8, 2018 at 4:53 am #44421
Luckily we do not have children or friends in common. And we live in different cities so hopefully we wont run into each other by accident! But I’ll continue to keep to no contact (note that he does not have any social media presence (in hindsight, of course he doesn’t – otherwise I’d wise up to his married status a lot sooner!)
March 4, 2018 at 3:31 pm #44373SunnygalParticipant
Sandra Brown’s book is wonderful. I would take it a day at a time. If he tries to recontact keep with the NO CONTACT. Good you got rid of him!!!!!!!!
March 8, 2018 at 4:56 am #44422
Thank you for your support. I am counting my blessings – it has been a slide down the slippery slope over the last 12 years: a relationship with an emotionally unavailable low level narcissist, to a marriage and a child with a full blown diagnosed Cerebral NPD. Whilst divorcing N – straight into the arms of a SP (where I did not see the red flags for 2.5 years. Or in hindsight, was too distracted with divorce and custody and was probably grateful for his attention and occasional company to question things at the time).
March 6, 2018 at 4:16 pm #44387slimoneParticipant
They generally cycle back around when they want something. Even if it is just for a few moments of drama. The only thing that keeps them out of your life is going, and staying, with zero interaction. No response, no emails, no texts, nothing. Don’t ever give him the power of knowing that if he bugs you 20 times that you will finally let him in.
His letter to you is a classic, whereby he accuses you of all the things he has done, and would do again if you let him. He lays his cards on the table with this letter. You just have to ‘read’ those cards correctly.
What I mean by this is that even though he is saying how disgusted he is by you, this is not about you, and is not an indication he will leave you alone.
What he is expressing is contempt: the feeling that a person or a thing is beneath consideration, worthless, or deserving scorn. In truth he feels this way about everyone and everything in the whole world. But he still needs ‘the world’, so will reappear whenever he thinks he could get something.
The whole process, the letter, the insults, the manipulation and lies, are all very impersonal, despite your having had an intimate relationship. And in truth you can totally ignore everything he has written or said about you, since these things are so obviously false (and about him, really).
It is interesting how they use projection to illuminate their own shortcomings. If you can look at it like a scientist (easier said than done) it can help take the sting of betrayal out of it (some).
March 8, 2018 at 5:02 am #44423
Thank you for interpreting his letter for me. I was feeling as if someone dropped a bucket of cow’s manure on my head when I first read it I’ve re-read it a few times since and see what you mean by it being impersonal and using projection. However, he made me feel like a bad guy for a day: he said “you never explained what was wrong”. This is true. I did not confront him with evidence of his lies as it would reveal that I have been using private investigator to track him and dig into his background. As SP can be dangerous, my counsellor and solicitor thought it was safer for me to keep this information to myself. So I have to remind myself that I do not owe him honesty considering how he has been behaving with me for over 4 years (including proposing/giving me an engagement ring and wanting to move his (assume 2nd set of) clothing into my place. How dare he, seriously. But this is just the man he is – it is like a jigsaw puzzle coming together. E.g. my mum was rushed into emergency with a stroke but he “had to leave for the airport”. I checked flight app – and there was no flight to the city he was supposed to fly to (that day was a public holiday, so presumably he was with his family and juggled morning with me and my parents, evening them). Disgusting to think about it (and my parents were charmed by him, thought he was making me happy).
March 6, 2018 at 5:17 pm #44389angelstarParticipant
Sociopaths are a very hard to get rid of. They will disappear for a while maybe days, weeks, or even months. They tend to comeback later for more games when they get board, because they want go play with their old toys again. No contact is the way too go. Keep him away, or he will keep toying with you later down the road.
March 8, 2018 at 5:07 am #44424
Thank you. I learnt my lesson with keeping him away. When I first had some info about his lies, I let him to talk me into “I just own a house with my old girlfriend, we had no sex for 7 years. Just need to wind up an old family trust I have with her, then I can move out”. This was 8 months ago and I took a chance on him. 3 months ago I did more surveillance and background checks and all the lies came out, everything: where he was born, year he was born (he is in fact a lot older than me, 15 years. Not 8 as he told me). Where he went to school, prior marriages I did not know about, the list continues. So whilst I have moments when I miss him (we had this most amazing sexual chemistry), I keep looking at the PI reports, showing him doing things with his wife whilst texting me about working on some assignment in the middle of the bush. Just have to remind myself that the man I loved did not exist, he was a Phanthom of my imagination.
March 6, 2018 at 9:54 pm #44391SunnygalParticipant
totally agree with slimone.
March 7, 2018 at 7:49 am #44401
HI Thirdtimelucky, I’m sorry that you did in fact find out he is married. But, this information helped you to see the truth & now you can slam the door on him for good.
YES, a sociopath will always attempt to come back into a past targets life if the target lets them. This is where it is important to slam the door shut when ever he tries to suck you back into to his con game. Some times it takes years for a sociopath to return, some times months.
You are making remarkable steps to get him out of your life for good. Its good that you are moving. I would recommend that you check with the Motor vehicle office to see if you can have your address not listed as public info. Today with internet access it is very easy to gain info over the net including address & phone numbers. So he maybe able to locate you via the net. Not sure if the Motor vehicle office can help. Also you can check with the National Domestic Violence hotline 800-799-SAFE for more info as well as your local abuse center. (get their # from the hotline).
What he states is insanity!!
“he rest of the letter vents his anger at my insistence on a pre nuptial agreement (I told him that was not prepared to get married or live with him without one. His comments in his final email were: “it is emotional terrorism and emotional blackmail. A stupid agreement. Two people in love must give each other every dollar if needed.”
Crazy talk. This is what they do. First they will love bomb you in attempt to get you back under their mind control, when that does not work they use “sociopath pity play” (google), when that does not work they use anger, intimidation, fear…what ever it takes. Glad you were strong and see the truth with him now. You just have to laugh at his attempts = “emotional terrorism and emotional blackmail”…honestly this is nuts. He has dropped his mask into his insane mindset. Imagine what he is telling (yelling) his wife everyday.
“I have not responded and not going to, but just want to know if this is likely to be the end.”
SMART MOVE!!! Keep the no contact rule in place now that you gave his car back & have zero ties to him.
look into a home security system for your new home either with a company or you install yourself such as the ones at HomeDepot or Lowes (start at $15 per door, use batteries & are easy to install with just a screwdriver).
Keep a journal. If you see anything out of place in your home or yard or car write it down in a journal. Sometimes sociopath will use gas lighting abuse to mess with a former target such as moving lawn furniture or doing something to their car etc. If your gut is telling you he is in your home, yard, car or neighborhood LISTEN TO YOUR GUT it is NEVER wrong.
Watch the video: “Oprah Gavin Debecker you tube” (with regards to listening to your gut alarm & his book The Gift of Fear is a must read…maybe your local library has it.
Make sure your son knows never to leave with this man. i.e. if he is playing in the yard etc. Tis might not ever happen but you must be 10 steps ahead of a sociopath. Better to be proactive for safety. If you had this man down as a “emergency contact” for your son’s school be sure to remove his name at the school.
This is most likely true:
“My counsellor did not think he’d bother with me again as he would be too scared to rock his real family in another town (as he protected the secret at all costs, I did not confront him with evidence I got).”
With the exception, if his wife finally sees the truth & wants a divorce. Then this guy may try to get you back. Sociopath hate to be alone & if he does not have anyone in his hook he may come around to see if you will take his bait again.
How are you doing emotionally?? You have had a lot happen with this guy…finding out he is married & after your money & that you were lied to & conned by him.
Glad you are safe & making such great strong steps getting this guy out of your life for good.
March 8, 2018 at 5:29 am #44425
Thank you for your message and your security tips. He does not know my car registration so he cannot check with the Roads office. My new place has good security and nice neighbours (its in a secure apartment complex).
Thank you for your suggestion about warning my son – I do not think he’d turn up at the school or if he did, the school and/or other parents would call me, however, who knows. With sociopath anything is possible. I have not told my son that he would not be coming back as yet – said that he has had a hip replacement (true) and cannot travel for a few months. As he did not live with us and based in another city, my boy did not see him more than 3-4 nights per month. He has not seen SP for about 2 months now and is not asking after him.
I put away our photos, including of him with my son (very sad looking at them, my boy was so happy, yet it was just a giant lie).
I have been reading a lot on the disorder and speaking to a few trusted friends which made things easier for me (or I questioned if I was too harsh on him and perhaps another chance…My friends put me straight with that one, they saw me suffering over the last 18 months).
As to how I am going emotionally: I am feeling numb and my sleep is disturbed (fingers crossed will get better once I move in 2 weeks). Reading books about the disorder, long walks along the beach (luckily I live near by) and packing for moving helps. I need to get back to exercise. I miss my time with him on some days (E.g. today is 1 months since I’ve seen him last. I knew it was the last time on that day).
What concerns me is that I was not able to sit down and have a good cry about it. Perhaps because I did a lot of crying 12 – 4 months ago, when I first got the incling of the lies. I used to burst into tears sitting in a cafe, and it was on a day he was supposed to see me!
My last crying session was on New Years Day he left my son and I at a hotel where we spent NYE (which I paid for!), saying he had an urgent work call and had to leave. I cried and cried for an hour after he left. Then nothing. When he returned his key to my place and left With his clothes, I had no tears. Just relief he was gone.
Ps: I keep thinking about his poor wife, from surveillance photos she looks like a nice lady, obviously loves him to bits and works hard 5 days a week, probably paying most of their bill! I hope her life improves and he never cheats on her again. She does not deserve him treating her like he does.
March 8, 2018 at 9:21 am #44427
Hi Thirdtimelucky, you’re welcome hon. Glad your friends not only have your back, but are speaking the truth to you about this guy. This is a comfort to have close friends, that are looking out for you. I believe it is vitally important to listen to close, trusted, friends like this always. They are not emotionally connected to the sociopath, so they can give you there gut instinct reaction to him. Like a dog backing that someone is nearing the home without the home owner being aware of this fact until the door bell rings.
It’s normal to start to “question” things about the sociopath. Example: “Maybe it’s me that was the problem in the relationship”, “maybe if I didn’t say “that” during our fight, we would still be together or maybe we wont have fought” etc etc.
This is what sociopaths love…they have messed with our minds that some times, you dont even know, which way is up & which way is down, because of their brain washing & mind control. We (the victims) start questioning everything…this is what good people do. The evaluate their behavior & make approbate changes. Meanwhile the sociopath are manipulating us, our minds, running a con game on us without us even realizing it. Sociopaths want you to make changes to please them to give them what they want i.e. sex, money, place to live etc.
With time you will get your gut instinct back & you will, then see, that he is pure evil. He is married & was playing mind games with you & your son on the side. THIS IS PURE EVIL!! YES, he was playing mind games with your SON!! And you, too!!
You just dont do that to people. He is emotionally, mentally & verbally abusing his wife saying that he “loves her”, all along having you in his life on the side (and you didnt know he was married!!)….& was emotionally, mentally & emotionally abusing you & your son with his con game.
Thank goodness you are education yourself & in counseling with a very knowledgeable counselor. This is a true blessing!!
Remember the sociopath love bombs their targets the second they meet us. They plant seeds of “he is a good guy” from the beginning in our minds. (this happened with you AND your son!!). Then they drop their mask & we are complex by their horrible behavior, we are taught to believe everyone has “good” inside them, that they can “change” and then we revert our thinking to the love bombing state & give them a pass on their bad behavior.
This is what you have to break your mind free of…the lovebombing stage was just a con game for him to suck you into his game. A game you did not know you were playing. It was all fake…not real what so ever. Not easy to re-train the brain but you will get there. Keep reading & then analyzing what you read with your relationship, asking questions hear & with your counselor.
You are making amazing steps to your freedom your mind. You should be so proud of yourself!! It’s not easy to pick up the pieces after a sociopath enters our lives. But you are making huge strives!! Keep moving forward & keep the door shut on him.
Once again, I highly recommend that you google “Oprah Gavin Debecker you tube) and what their videos on listening to your gut. Our gut is an alarm. It warns us of danger. Your gut alarm was warning you in the beginning with this guy no doubt. But he keep twisting your mind away from your gut. Like all sociopaths do. Now you must reinstate listening to your gut again. Most victims (including myself) lost their gut alarm during the time with the sociopath. Gavin Debecker’s book The gift of fear is (I believe) is a must read for everyone. It should be taught in school.
It’s possible, because you were not educated that your gut alarm has not been working correctly since the first narcissist that you let into your life. It’s possible, that that first narcissist in your life broke your spirit and instead of seeing that he was lying about the things he said about you…you took his words to heart & your self esteem lowered & this is what the next narcissist saw & knew he could manipulate you, then this sociopath saw this too. Good people see that we need to make changes…the sociopath will manipulate us with words to control us but also to break down our self esteem = to have full control over us from leaving them. Being lonely is also a huge thing that a sociopath can spot a mile away. Like a shark detecting a drop of blood in the water.
“As to how I am going emotionally: I am feeling numb and my sleep is disturbed (fingers crossed will get better once I move in 2 weeks).”
Sadly this is normal when ending a relationship with a sociopath. The constant stress you were under (even if you did not realize you were stressed) from the sociopath messes with our adrenal glands. The adrenal glands regulate our blood pressure, blood sugar, cortisol & adrenaline levels (fight, flight or freeze mode) and over 50 hormones. When we are under constant stress i.e. toxic relationship, work schedule, raising kids etc our adrenal glands can get burnt out. This will cause symptoms like racing mind, sleep issues, anxiety, depression, etc etc.
Right now you are still under a tremendous amount of stress….your cortisol levels are most likely high due to breaking up with him, moving, raising a young son etc. This will cause issues with your sleep pattern. This is why it’s important to focus on your health this time…look at sites like Adrenal fatigue. org and Dr Lam. com for adrenal fatigue symptoms & read up on this.
Take care of your health. Google “Mia Lunden sleep issues you tube” to watch her video and also videos on those two sites. (Check with your doctor before doing anything & I have zero affiliation with those sites except a friend guided me to an Endocrinologist doctor who tested me for cortisol levels, vitamin/mineral deficiency & hormonal imbalance (all my test came back in poor health). Google also “Dr Fuhrman you tube eat for life” (I went to him & his methods got me back to better health).
“What concerns me is that I was not able to sit down and have a good cry about it.”
I remember when I was still married, just found proof my (then) husband was having a two year affair, and was just told by the vet the next day that my beloved cat had cancer. I sat in the vet’s office waiting for my turn to pay just thinking “I cant take any more”. I look back now, I was just so emotionally spent that I could not even cry or get angry or have any emotion. I was just a step ford wife robot, just in motion but not feeling my feelings because my then husband was controlling my mind. That moment in the vet’s office looking back is a pivotal moment once I left at how he was controlling my mind.
Right now you are still in survival mode = moving, looking for ways to be safe from this evil man etc etc. With time your emotions will percolate up. Because you have been in counseling maybe not to the degree that most victims feel (because you have been processing feelings with your counselor). Right now dont worry about not showing your emotions. I would suggest that you get a journal & just take time each day to write out your thoughts out about this guy if things pop into your mind about him. i.e. “I think he is a jerk (or an a$$), I feel sad today, I feel angry to day because of, I have been crying” etc. This will open your mind to focusing on your feelings.
For me, I was just a walking zombie when I left. I sat on a counselors couch the first session and said “I dont know if the marriage failed because of me, him or both, I’s so confused”. She gave me the book Women who love psychopaths by Sandra Brown…and I literally sobbed the whole time reading it. You know the ugly cry (haha). It was bad. Never have I cried so hard in my life. If was more the type to suck it up & carry on. I realize now that we have to stop and take a moment to think about how we feel. And we need to let out those emotions i.e. anger (not at anyone), cry, sob, etc.
I believe when we stuff our feelings down our brain can not process the info & can not apply them to the “gut alarm” system that we each have when it’s vitally important. Our brains know how to deal with everything around us in this crazy world, it knows where to store the info in our brain… i.e. this is a feel good moment category, daily routine category, danger category etc. If we dont feel the moments (really feel them) then our brain will but say a dangerous experience in the wrong filing cabinet and we might not a proper gut warning to avoid danger i.e. date another narcissist or sociopath etc.
“My last crying session was on New Years Day he left my son and I at a hotel where we spent NYE (which I paid for!), saying he had an urgent work call and had to leave”
I’m so sorry this moment happened. Makes me sad. An exciting time for you & your son and this a$$ just left you on NYE. I’m glad you cried that night. That is a normal response to his behavior. This is one of the bread crumbs that lead you to counseling & to Lovefraud. Your brain filed that moment in the right filing cabinet!!
“When he returned his key to my place and left With his clothes, I had no tears. Just relief he was gone”.
The day I drove off with my car packed, I felt a huge relief of my shoulders (literally) it was a very surreal moment & powerful moment…it was another light bulb moment for me. Connecting the dots that leaving was a good thing for my body, mind & spirit. I never went back to him…severed him divorce papers a few weeks later. When I served him divorce papers I had a few moments. like you now. of “maybe we can work this out”. But thank goodness, I keep education myself, and those thoughts went out my head quickly. They will for you too. Everything takes time to process and you will get to the point that you will one day just hate the guy and soon you will not even think about him on a daily bases. Hard to believe…but it happens…just one day you sit back and say “wow I haven’t thought about him for months or years”.
“I keep thinking about his poor wife, from surveillance photos she looks like a nice lady, obviously loves him to bits and works hard 5 days a week, probably paying most of their bill! I hope her life improves and he never cheats on her again. She does not deserve him treating her like he does.”
You are a kind soul. You have empathy & compassion for others…especially right now for his wife. This is a great place to be in. SO many women that are not educated might be directing their anger towards the wife. So glad you see the truth. You are correct…”she does not deserve him treating her the way he does”. And neither do you or your son!!
Thank you for sharing your emotions & I think it’s important to open up…it’s part of the healing process.
Wishing you the best. Keep posting questions if you have them.
March 8, 2018 at 9:37 am #44428
Just googled “processing feelings”..there is a lot of great write ups..here is just one article:
“How to Process Emotions and Feelings
Processing Emotions – Step by Step Guide
Processing emotions is about learning to understand, make sense of and deal with emotions in healthy productive ways. Learning to process emotions takes time.
You might be so disconnected from your own feelings or so accustomed to suppressing them that at first you might just feel nothing.
Learning about emotions is like learning anything new – it requires patience and doesn’t happen overnight.
Spend a few minutes throughout the day sitting quietly and focusing on your body, trying to identify what you feel. Use a feelings list to help you identify what it is you might be feeling. If you are prone to emotional outbursts or find yourself being swamped by difficult emotions, wait until the intensity subsides then try to reflect on what you felt.
In order to get to the stage of being able to process emotions and feelings, you first need to be able to identify them and stay with them long enough to understand and make sense of them
Stage one. (Identification and awareness of emotions and feelings)
What feelings/sensations do I have?
Where in my body am I feeling it? in my chest? throat? stomach?
What thoughts am I having that indicate what I might be feeling?
Are there any contradicting thoughts / feelings?
Do I have any judgments on the thoughts/feelings I have?
Am I having any urges to suppress/move away from these feelings? Why?
Stage Two – ability to stay with and accept the feelings in order to process.
Tolerating difficult emotional states can be difficult but remember, feeling your feelings will NOT kill you. When you are experiencing a difficult emotional state practise slow breathing, counting to four as you breathe in then counting to five as you breathe out. As you breathe into the feeling, bring a openness and curiosity to the feeling. and ask yourself?
Is this feeling (s) intolerable?
Why do I think it is intolerable?
Do I think something bad will happen if I allow this feeling? What?
How bad is it on a scale of 1 to 10?
Am I having distressing physiological sensations?
What can I do to tolerate this state? (breathe / relax / stay still?)
Stage three – processing in order to act on the emotion appropriately. This stage is basically about understanding why you are having the feeling in order to move on to stage four.
Are there any needs that are going unmet? (ie do I feel misunderstood / unheard / disrespected?
Has a boundary been violated by someone?
Has a value been compromised?
What is my contribution to this distress?
Am I falling into old behaviour patterns?
Is this emotional distress as a result of distorted thinking?
Is this emotion the triggering of childhood memories?
Is this distress a result of me not accepting my feeling or judging it as wrong?
Is this distress from a build-up of different events?
Stage Four – addressing the emotions.
It’s not easy to know how to deal with an emotion or feeling. It’s very helpful to talk to someone whose judgement we trust to get a balanced perspective on what might be happening.
Some emotions are due to distorted thinking patterns and we need to try and re-frame our thinking in more helpful ways in order to release the feelings.
Other times, the feeling is triggered by childhood memories or past trauma and so we need to find ways of letting it go. However, some feelings might be due to a boundary being violated or from a need being unmet and in these cases we may need to be assertive with someone in our lives. Addressing the emotion and feeling in a healthy appropriate way is the key to psychological well-being.
Based on what you conclude from processing you may need to;
Get a need met.
Address distorted thinking
Assert yourself with someone
Re-establish a boundary
Let the feeling pass
Express your thoughts and feelings to someone or through journaling
Re-align yourself with your values and take corrective action.
Do the opposite of what your urge is (ie if it is to isolate and sleep – go and take a walk or talk to someone.
Apologise or make amends to someone
If you struggle with repeated difficulties with emotions- you might have an emotional schema. Click here to find out more
Learning to manage emotions takes time and is difficult to do on your own. But once you really understand your emotions, and can process them effectively, you really can transform your life.”
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