Donna Anderson’s important latest post reminds me that one topic which will never be worn out is that of the psychopath’s lies and their impact on others.
This week I want to very briefly introduce yet another take on this inexhaustible topic. Everyone lies, but there’s something else at stake in the case of the psychopath’s lies.
To illustrate: you might say about any regular (non-psychopathic) person, “Things would be better if s/he was to lie less often. Her/his soul or psyche would be healthier as would her relationships.” That’s true. Now try this on for size and notice how wrong it seems: “Things would be better if the psychopath was to lie less often. His soul or psyche would be healthier as would his relationships.”
Weirdly, this is patently not the case. The psychopath will be just as sick/evil no matter how many or how few lies he tells. It’s not a quantitative but a qualitative matter.
It is commonly said that a defining characteristic of psychopaths is that they are pathological liars. This is right if you mean that they are profoundly dishonest and not to be trusted. It does not mean, though, that psychopaths lie a lot. They do lie a lot and those lies cause havoc. But as I hope my illustration above shows, lying less will not make them better people.
So, how does this work? The thing about psychopaths is that even their truths are lies! Or rather, whether or not they happen to be telling the truth or a lie at any particular moment is not what makes them psychopathic. What makes them psychopathic is that they use and destroy people; truth or lies are for them just so many weapons for pursuing their prey.
M.L. Gallagher said a lot when she wrote this:
He is the lie….
From hello to good-bye. I love you to I hate you. You’re beautiful to you’re ugly.
It was all a lie….When friends or my family ask, but what about this, or what about that, I tell them. It was all a lie. There was no truth in him.
If I spend my time trying to figure out fact from fiction, all I am doing is trying to prove I wasn’t so stupid. See, this was true. That’s why I fell in love with him.
Truth is. I fell in love with him because I believed his lie.
When I discovered the truth, I was so enmeshed in his lie, I couldn’t find the truth in me. And so I sank.
Greengirl:
Consider yourself lucky that you got at least some of your money back. I “loaned” my ex a lot of money and “invested” in a lot of his projects. When I brought up this fact, he said that all the times he took me out to eat or to the movies or bought me a Christmas gift should have made up for the loans. I told him that I didn’t expect to be paid off in steak dinners; that I needed that money for my emergency fund, if I got sick or my car needed to be fixed. But to this date, I have not heard from him, nor has he repaid me any of it. I don’t ever expect to hear from him again, if not for a long time.
Aloha:
I read some of your earlier posts, and they brought tears to my eyes. I feel the same way in many respects. I want the last three years of my life back. I want the opportunity to have a family of my own, with a husband and a normal life. Now I’m 42. I gave my ex the last years of my life. Now I don’t know if I will ever be able to have a family of my own.
It’s hard to go to family functions, especially weddings. But my mother expects me to do so. I finally had to draw boundaries, tell her that I was uncomfortable being in situations like that. I joined a group called meetup.com for singles so that I would have single friends to spend holidays and weekends with. Sometimes it’s just best to be around the people you have something in common with, and there’s nothing wrong with that at all.
If you want to email me, you can do so … ciao_manhattan at yahoo. I’d love to hear from you … your posts seem to touch on exactly what I’m feeling these days but am unable to elucidate.
M.
Anytime someone asked me to do something, no matter how much it inconvenienced me, I would drop everything I had going and do it for them. But at the same time, I felt resentment in my gut about not wanting to do it, but did it anyway, which made me upset with myself. I now tune into my “belly” and when someone asks me to do something that I feel in my “gut” (there is an ACTUAL PHYSICAL FEELING) I say, “Gee I wish I could, but NO!” I’m not rude about it, but AM FIRM about it. And, I don’t feel guilty about it either. I no longer think it is WRONG to turn down a request for ANY reason. Just “I’m reading a book and I don’t want to get up” is enough of a REASON for me if that is what my reason is. It is OK to take care of myself, and ok to say NO. Before, if I didn’t want to do something I would still almost “drop the fire extinguisher if my house was on fire, to come file your finger nails” LOL
I put MY NEEDS on hold for YOUR CONVENIENCE—not a good thing to do. I did things for my mother, my P son, my son C, my DIL etc that they should have been doing for themselves or doing without—when I stopped doing this is when “all hell broke loose”—I was not allowed to put myself FIRST without being punished. I wasn’t even allowed to put myself second or third! LOL
Life is much more simple now, and peaceful.
Hi Oxdrover. Im with you on that one. Im cutting all the negativity out of my life. Even got rid of a nice pair of shoes that hurt my feet. No-one is going to ask me for anything now, and if they do, I shall be extremely selective about how I chose to use my precious energy. As for the exN I am almost out of the nightmare now, hardly think about him and have burnt much of what I kept that reminds me of him, even my rubbish bin is too good for him! When I think of how I was when I came on this site 6 months ago, a living nightmare, now I have accepted that he is as he is.
I keep thinking what was the worst bit, was it when I got the evidence he was cheating on me, or was it when I chucked him out of my life, was it when he filled my mind from waking to sleeping, was it when I realised I had been conned. NO, the worst bit was when I was unknowingly being manipulated and conned by him and in the midst of the abuse. Yes, it really does get better. Like you Oxdrover, I am making my life more simple and peaceful and putting myself first.
The reason that I am still visiting this site, is that I really have a heartfelt affinity for you all. (((Hugs)))
Ditto to that Beverly,
And also I am still learning, still growing, and still getting insights into it all…as well as, I do hope that in some small way I can be of support to others that are in the beginning stages of the healing. I am so grateful to those people who were so supportive of me when I was INSANE with grief and confusions, and fear and pain.
I guess there is no “fanatic like a convert” and believe I have CONVERTED to a much more healthy life style and way of thinking. I want to shout to the world, “FREE YOURSELF OF THE ABUSE!”
I want to run the “underground railway” of freeing people from the abuse of the Ps–to spirit them away to safety, to “follow the drinking gouard” to FREEDOM of mind and heart. I want to repay in some way the wonderful wonderful people who gave me the courage to (at times) keep living when the pain was almost too much to bear.
I know that none can save us but ourselves, but it sure was nice to have people to reach out to me, even over the Internet and say STAY STRONG, YOU CAN DO IT, Don’t feed the vampire. etc. It really did mean so much, and I am so grateful to those people whose real names I don’t even know, but who reached out to me. I can’t do a thing for them personally but maybe I can pass it on to someone else who needs just one kind word. And when the day comes that I am gone from this site there will be someone that I have reached out to, reach out to the next generation of walking wounded, and so on.
Oxdrover, I have been reading the amazing amount of energy you have been putting on this site recently and such strength and wisdom from you. I want to minimise the stress in my life, but I also want to expose this in the UK. I am also grateful for all the support and kindness I have received here.
I also think Beverly, that you “learn” more by “teaching” than you do by taking a class. In researching, reading, and learning more about Ps and thinking about other’s questions, etc. it also makes me examine myself and my reactions to the Ps in my life—I guess I “over analyze” things a bit too much, but it is only when I get to a point that I have done a complete “emotional autopsy” of the failed relationship(s) that I can completely let it go.
My whole life I have felt that “something” was “wrong” in my life, but I was never sure what it was, now I realize that it was the attempt on my own part to keep everyone else happy at the expense of my own peace of mind and my own emotional health. I realize now that the thing in me that made me want to do that was “out of plumb” and also left me vulneable to the psychopaths and their Ps by proxy enablers.
Only by recognizing what the Ps were and that their “proxies” were just as toxic was I able to realize that I wasn’t the one that was being “mean” by trying to hold them accountable for their cruel behavior. I realize now that it is OK to hold people accountable for their behavior. That is such a basic concept, and I had gone through my whole life hurting because when I did try to hold people accountable, I was told that I WAS THE ONE THAT WAS THE PROBLEM. On some level I knew that was a LIE, but still I could not break out of the pattern. Now I have.
I am FREE for the first time in my life. I am free to do as my conscience and my own instincts tell me are right, not take the lies of others and try to reconcile myself to them when instinctively I know they are LIES. I am NOT the problem, but I have ALLOWED the problem to continue.
I understand what you say, in that, through the traumatic encounter with Ps etc, it forces us in the most extreme way to unpick ourselves. I am a ‘knot unpicker’, some people say I am too obsessive about unravelling things, but like you, when I have learnt the lessons I can move on.
My encounter with an N, led me to a dark place where I realised at 54 yrs that my father was a Narcissist (I had not realised that) and that I had carried the can for the dysfunction, so I have been led full circle back to childhood.
I have enough self help books to stock a library and I have been working on myself since I was 13. I am going to get rid of most of these books, because I have realised that I have spent most of mylife trying to put myself right, when there is nothing to be put right and I have learnt this in the last six months. I have also realised that I have acted as a rescuer, an enabler, a codependent.
Berverly-I too have millions of self help books and in the moment of reading them, they make sense. Then I put them down and all I have read and all that I thought that I have learned went right out the window. I also have spent ALL of my life trying to put myself right…what happened to help you believe that there is nothing to be put right? I beat myself up all the time, not so much about him lying to me over and over, but me letting him do it to me…I really need to find a way to move on from it.
Ah, yes! Beverly, unfortunately many of the books only tells us how to be “better” enablers, more co-dependent and how to “win friends and influence people” LOL
Unfortunately for me, even though I read Hare’s book probably 15 years ago when a friend with a P son and I were comiserating together about our sons, he found the book and sent it to me….I had the great AH HA effect and enlightenment, however I only applied it to my p-bio-father not to my son as well.
Why did I recognize one and not the other? They are both so typical.
Later, I began to see it in my son, and STILL I couldn’t give up the malignant HOPE inside myself…part of that is that my mother and I JOINTLY were co-dependent and I allowed her to lead the way.
Some how I got this idea that if she thought it, it must be RIGHT. She would never lie or do anything malicious—yea, right, as long as I never crossed her. Even though previously she and I had quarreled when she enabled him at age 15, against my wishes, and he had USED her, etc. I let her keep my “hope” alive when I knew better. WHY? I don’t know, probably for the same reason a woman will go back to a man that abuses her, beats her, etc over and over.
I would NEVER have allowed a man to hit me, but I let my SON hit me. If my husband had ever hit me no matter what the “provocation” was he would have wound up in the hospital in hand cuffs, or called the police to get me off of him. NOT so my son—and yet, I did NOT DENY WHAT HE HAD DONE—did not ever think he was INNOCENT, I knew before he was ever arrested that he was a thief, I CALLED THE COPS AND TURNED HIM IN MYSELF—I talked to the detectives who had arrested him for the girl’s murder—there was NO DOUBT that he was guilty and yet I held out this UNREALISTIC HOPE that somehow he could grow a conscience. I WANTED so badly to believe he had a conscience and has just violated it and now was repentenant. How could some one with as much common sense and I have/had, be so gullible and stay in denial even in the face of the evidence? That’s the question I still don’t know the answer to. Only more questions.
When I saw my husband on the ground at the crash, I KNEW and recognized it and SAID “He can’t make it, he’s too badly burned.”
Why could I accept that my husband was “dead” though he was still breathing and talking, and NOT accept that my SON was “dead” though he was still breathing and talking?
Why would I have NEVER let a husband or a boy friend hit me, and then let them back into my life, my circle of trust, but I let my son kick my ribs in?
I wish I knew the answers to those questiions and they are about ME not them. I do know that I may never find those answers, but in the meantime, I am working on being ME, the best ME that I can be, the healthiest me–and I know that I am “getting there”—life is good again. I am more able to focus on not only myself, but on other things. I am doing business, working on things again, interested in things again, seeing friends, working on hobbies, reading, watching movies and remembering the plots 15 minutes after I have seen it, and there was a time I could watch a movie several times over and not realize I had seen it before. My short term mermory has improved GREATLY in the last 3 months.
My physical strength is returning after the summer with the tick fever last summer, and I’ve had every system in my body checked 10 X over and am totally physically healthy for a woman my age, I’m exercising more and actually feeling better physically in every way. So the progress is on going and I think the last three months have been the best three months in YEARS. I’m hoping that if things continue the way they have been that my son and I can go back to Africa by this fall (I was too sick to go last fall) and visit my friends that live there and see the areas again where I worked as a wild life photographer.
I spoke with my lawyer again today regarding my court case (I’ve been getting some help from a pro bono clinic.)
Apparently my case as far as the money I am owed is very strong. However, when it comes to my stuff, I basically don’t have a case. I’d been thinking about just forgetting picking up my stuff, and adding the cost to replace these things to my court case. However, my lawyer told me today that, if my ex says I can go get my things from his house, then legally I don’t have a leg to stand on.
Talked very briefly with the ex today. We had discussed the possibility of him just shipping my things to me. Well, today he says that he will be coming to my town in the next month, and he will just bring my stuff then. Yeah right. He’s said that about 3 times previously, then always back out at the last minute. So, now it is looking like my options are to a) wait and see if he brings it (but I doubt he will, so this isn’t really an option), b) go to his town with my dad or a friend and try to collect my things, or c) just forget about it. I’m leaning towards option b. Not sure if it’s the right choice yet, though, I have to think on this for a few more days.
Also, while he had me on the phone, ex goes, “Oh good news, I might have some money for you soon.” He says he is expecting a big tax return, and that when that comes he can send me another chunk of cash. Not the balance of what he owes me, mind you, but another portion of what he owes me. Hmm, I wonder if he is draggin this out on purpose? Again, not sure if I believe him or not. I am thinking I will just stay the course, and begin the court case. If he sends me money before it goes to court, then great, I’ll drop the case. If not, then at least I’ll get a court order. I didn’t want to go to court for a while because I thought if I pissed him off by starting a case, then he would refuse to pay me. But, he isn’t paying me now, so really, what do I have to lose?
I find talking to him so exhausting. We were only on the phone for a few minutes, as I keep any contact to a bare minimum and business only. It still messes me up a bit when he tries to be “nice” to me. I know intellectually that he is probably just doing that to try and manipulate me further (ie. to get me off his back about the loan, or to butter me up in case he decides he wants some sex in a few months, or whatever.) But, being a nice and reasonable person myself, when someone is nice to me my first reaction is to be nice back. It is so tiring dealing with someone where I have to be so constantly on my guard, and override all my normal reactions in order to not get screwed.
Pretty much whenever I call him with a plan of how to deal with things, he comes up with another plan. And I realized tonight that it is another type of manipulation for him. Sometimes it might sound like he is trying to be nice (for example, saying he’ll bring my things to me rather than me come there or him ship them). However, the “theme” of the conversation is always that we are not going to follow my agenda, we are going to follow his agenda, and I am not to argue about it, or he will get mean. It’s amazing how manipulation can sometimes be such a subtle thing.
Bah. I need to make up my mind whether I am going to go there or just forget about getting my stuff back. Either way, I need to make a decision soon so that I can serve him court papers and be done with talking to him. Every time I have to talk to him, I just feel utterly exhausted afterwards. Not just tired, but weak, confused, mentally foggy. It’s bizarre.
And of course he got in a few comments about how wonderfully his life is going, all the social events he is going to and how things are going well. Good riddance.