Donna Anderson’s important latest post reminds me that one topic which will never be worn out is that of the psychopath’s lies and their impact on others.
This week I want to very briefly introduce yet another take on this inexhaustible topic. Everyone lies, but there’s something else at stake in the case of the psychopath’s lies.
To illustrate: you might say about any regular (non-psychopathic) person, “Things would be better if s/he was to lie less often. Her/his soul or psyche would be healthier as would her relationships.” That’s true. Now try this on for size and notice how wrong it seems: “Things would be better if the psychopath was to lie less often. His soul or psyche would be healthier as would his relationships.”
Weirdly, this is patently not the case. The psychopath will be just as sick/evil no matter how many or how few lies he tells. It’s not a quantitative but a qualitative matter.
It is commonly said that a defining characteristic of psychopaths is that they are pathological liars. This is right if you mean that they are profoundly dishonest and not to be trusted. It does not mean, though, that psychopaths lie a lot. They do lie a lot and those lies cause havoc. But as I hope my illustration above shows, lying less will not make them better people.
So, how does this work? The thing about psychopaths is that even their truths are lies! Or rather, whether or not they happen to be telling the truth or a lie at any particular moment is not what makes them psychopathic. What makes them psychopathic is that they use and destroy people; truth or lies are for them just so many weapons for pursuing their prey.
M.L. Gallagher said a lot when she wrote this:
He is the lie….
From hello to good-bye. I love you to I hate you. You’re beautiful to you’re ugly.
It was all a lie….When friends or my family ask, but what about this, or what about that, I tell them. It was all a lie. There was no truth in him.
If I spend my time trying to figure out fact from fiction, all I am doing is trying to prove I wasn’t so stupid. See, this was true. That’s why I fell in love with him.
Truth is. I fell in love with him because I believed his lie.
When I discovered the truth, I was so enmeshed in his lie, I couldn’t find the truth in me. And so I sank.
Dear One,
I never thought of it that way! I do have some “combat boots” does that count? The boys used to BRAG that their “mama wore combat boots!” You know it is interesting, I just think of it as “planning ahead.” I was in LA, CA in 1971 when the big quake hit (I was like 8 months preg and had a toddler) and you could buy a loaf of bread in those days for a quarter, and immediately it went to $1 a loaf, but it did make me think because I only had a few days worth of food in the house.
Well, I think I will go to bed, it’s getting to the “witching hour” here and time for me to turn in. Back to work tomorrow—finishing up cleaning and filling in my office.. I took today off in light of the holiday! I’d rather take a beating than clean out the “Piling system” and turn it into a filing system, but it’s time.
Looks like the weather new years weekend is going to be 70 freaking degrees starting Friday! So much for the 3-day weekend to do the butchering, so just have to keep everything on hold and do it over 2 days instead of three. Oh, well…we can use the rain! At least it isn’t a huge ice storm! Or floods like California. Boy those people have been pounded and the east is getting it as well. I’ll quit my griping, my kid can get home, so there’s not any problems compared to what other folks are dealing with!
70 degrees? wow. It was 17 here the other day and I was chuffed – so warm for this time of year. We’ve had almost o snow – i am hoping to get through without having to buy winter boots (i have heavy rain boots with wool liners for going out into the country), they are darned expensive.
We don’t usually get a lot of snow in this part of the country until december – but this is a record low. january and february usually get really icy – high humidity. The first winter i was back i almost had a heart attack driving on the roads here; took a long time to get used to the driving conditions. i was used to heavy heavy snow and sub zero temps, but the black ice was a challenge.
i buy meat that was raised as well as possible – no antibiotics, grass fed, free range. but i think i am going to give up on chicken. people don’t eat beef because of the fat content, and think that eating chicken is better – chicken are the least respected livestock in north america – the most shot up with crap and the most taken far away from their ‘natural’ conditions. but don’t get me started on veal. i hand raised a lot of calves. i now know that even what we were doing was so far off the mark for cows in their natural setting (breeding them every few months to get them to produce milk for our taking, and removing their calves from milking – which necessitated our hand raising them) that it makes me really uneasy – but, i digress. ‘Veal’ calves and commercially farmed chickens are the most abused ‘livestock’. People hear ‘milk fed veal’ and it sounds ‘homey’. If they only knew.
so, that was a long rant to say, i wish i had access to meat from herds i know. i do buy the best i can, but i still don’t know the herds, although i do know a couple of the farmers.
good luck with your filing system. it’s a great feeling to have the system in place and functioning well. Mine was completely under control when i moved in here, and now it has regressed to a piling system. I gave up and got a bin to dump everything into – and when i can i will deal with it.
and no, combat boots don’t count;any urban dyke has a pair of those. 😉
Dear One,
Wow, my combat books don’t count—well, hell! I didn’t think about it that way, that dyke my granddaughter was living with for a while had a pair I am sure. I haven’t met the new one, but the family that lives close and see her a lot all like her so I guess she is probably okay and my GD seems happy so that is all that matters to me. Her mom, my step daughter is a drama queen and somewhat controlling, but nothing like HER mother was, and her grandmother—they have a great tradition of being witches, so no surprise my Granddaughter is set up to be with abusive/controlling folks. Her brother managed to do okay with his choice of spouse I think, and is a great father and the best I can see a pretty good guy all around. He has finally gotten wise and moved FAR AWAY from his mother, for the good of his marriage and his own sanity. I don’t get involved in all of that drama, just enjoy being with them when I can and listening, but not giving any advice. Keep up by phone and FB.
I made THE BEST chicken and veggie soup for supper last night, LOW cal and NO sodium, it was so “no fat” that I actually added a TBS of olive oil into it (nothing tastes good without a BIT of fat in it) still only about 100 cal per cup, can’t beat that with a stick!
Yea, the ONE weekend we NEED cold weather the news says it will be 68-70 degree starting Friday and RAIN by the buckets—we need the rain of course, and sure don’t need black ice or ice storm or snow. Driving down here in snow is BUMPER CARS and people with 4 wheel drive and testosterone think it gives them a license to go 70 MPH….so I do NOT get out and drive on snow. There is NO WHERE I have to be that is worth risking my life and limbs to say nothing of my vehicles. I’ve got supplies to huddle down and wait out the bad weather and that is what I do.
Hello Oxy,
Well I got my two massages out of the way before the N’or Easter! We are going to get 17 inches of snow and the wind is howling. We are moving this weekend! Since we moved from the place we were in for 15 yrs then SHE showed up and ruined everything, we took temp. housing until we could get to our perm. place.
Geez, I think the spath friend got evicted last July and problably has moved into a perm place all these months while we have to stay here, not fair at all and I hope she gets evicted again! Anyhow all we can do is move forward and AWAY from her. I’m reading a lot here and learning about why I was targeted. After reading your posts Oxy, I think that although I have good boudries in the massage sitiuation, I do not have good boudries socially and allow people to treat me like chit…although I’ve been getting better and you are correct it’s not easy setting boundries. I’m a little clumsy about it but I’m doing it cause I don’t ever want to be used and abused that way again!!
ps. you got nice weather 🙂
Dear Ana,
You know the funny thing is that With people outside of my “family and close friends” I had NO problems setting boundaries, but once I had let them INSIDE THE CIRCLE, I was TOAST. It was like outside the family I was one person and inside another. Not sure just why but at least I figured out finally what was going on and started setting some boundaries, SOLID BOUNDARIES that I don’t allow anyone to step over, no matter what the relationship is. If that is a “problem” then they can move on down the line.
At first when I would decide on a boundary I was sooooo afraid it was “too harsh” or “unreasonable” so I would talk to my son D about and say “this is what happened, this is what I want to do about it, is that reasonable?” He said “Yes, that is reasonable” and now I don’t ask anyone about my boundary setting….I have figured I can TRUST MYSELF. I do my best to be fair, and not to set a boundary when I am UPSET or MAD, but I let being upset or mad be a CUE that there needs to be a boundary there of some kind. I just don’t IMPULSIVELY set boundaries, I think about them.
Last year about this time I had to set one with my son C and it was a tough one, but he had shown disrespect for me by lying to me again, and it wasn’t just the ONE lie, but all the pattern of lies before that one, and I saw a PATTERN that might have “holes in it” of honesty from time to time, but I couldn’t TRUST him to be honest with me if the chips were down. That being the case, not much of a relationship left. I’m sad about it of course, he isn’t a psychopath, but he isn’t the kind of man I can trust either, and that isn’t what I want, but it is what I have to accept is the case. I can’t control him, or what he does, or what he chooses, but I can control my reaction to his behavior and how much give him the chance to lie to me again.
I told myself I wasn’t enabling my family, but I really was enabling them, But no more. I’ve set boundaries for what I can and will tolerate, and what I will do for them. The training wheels are off and I can make those decisions for myself now, and live with the consequences. I have made the decision that I know when I set a boundary that the lasting of that relationship hangs others respecting that boundary. I’m willing to take that chance now because I must be MORE LOYAL TO MYSELF THAN TO ANYONE.
I must treat others well, but I also must expect that they treat me well. If not, then we must part ways.
Thanks for your reply Oxy. That’s too bad about your son not being honest with you. It’s good that you can stick to your guns with your boundries. It’s getting easier to say “no” to my family. Yesterday we were at my sisters house and her nieghbor was there! (she speaks Spanish)I’ve only met her once before and she is nice. My older sister said “Ana, go talk to Laura” and I said NO I don’t wanna! My younger sister laughed! And then I said “and you thought Marie was the evil twin…hahahahaha” My twin passed away in 06 and she was considered “the boss”
I have trouble with people at work. This is where I met the spath. It’s like they trample over me emotionally and are very NOSEY…My reaction is to AVOID this one person or be very vague…Can’t confront yet. She wants to be friends on FB and I did not answer her request, but she says nothing about it. She also wants to join the gym I go to UGH. What’s up with this woman? I feel like telling her I don’t want to be “friends” with her at all, just keep it professional and leave it at that. I’m like you; afraid to hurt feelings, afraid I’ll get angry and tell her to blank off…It’s going to play out one way or the other and I’d like to be in control of my emotions when it happens. Thanks Oxy.
It has been difficult learning when to “let something slide” and when to confront. If someone says/does something that really probably isn’t intended to mislead or be mean, I usually let it slide but if they are using “manners” inappropriately to put one over on me, or to use or abuse me or my hospitality, I usually confront the situation. Or just side step it and or side step the person.
I don’t have to do this at work any more, and dealing with that kind of person at work is difficult. Most people will sort of back off if you are not overly friendly with them, just keep the conversation light and non-personal, but some people will take a while to “get it.”
I suggest you read “Snakes in Suits, when Sociopaths go to Work” by Dr. Bob Hare. It is a great book on dealing with them at work. Another one I particularly like is “Stalking the soul, emotional abuse and the erosion of Identity” by Marie-France Hirigoyen. The latter one is out of print but it can be found used on the internet.
Well, speaking of work, I need ot get back to it for another spell.
Thanks for the book suggestions Oxy. I’ve got the Snakes in Suits one already, but will look up the other you suggested.
I’ve got a whole BIG shelf full of books and some I have gotten a LOT out of, but there are none that I have gotten nothing out of. Some are ones to read through quickly and others are ones to PONDER each sentence. There have been many “ah ha” moments and “Wow!” moments as you go through them. It all seems to start out about the psychopaths and end up being about US.
I go back and reread many of the books I have, and even have one book of poetry written by a woman and the book is called “The well behaved sociopath.” It didn’t turn out to be what I thought it would be but it was interesting, none the less. I’m a “book-a-holic” in any case. So many books and so little time to read them all! I would if I could!
Which books, Oxy, did you get the most out of?