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Honoring the memory of Amara, Sophie and Cecilia

It has been interesting to listen to the pundits trying to explain why someone would declare war on those in a theater and open fire. One said, “most of the time these acts are not committed by sociopaths” and asserted that most of the shooters are “depressed.” Many other pundits have said the shooter is obviously without conscience and have described him as “a psychopath.”

I bring up these issues because of another story that received very little coverage because it was eclipsed by the horrific events in Colorado. Today I would like to honor the memory of Amara, Sophie and Cecilia, three little ones whose only crime was having a monster as a father.

Amara, Sophie and Cecilia

Amara, Sophie and Cecilia

Since this story has not received much coverage, and there is very little information available about how the father functioned and his personality style, I cannot tell you his score on the psychopathy test. We do know that his ex-wife, the girls’ mother, did have concerns about his mental state and behavior and that he had previously harmed one of the girls. The divorce was final only 6 months ago.

According to news reports, father phoned mother asking to see the girls, she consented. The girls were at home with a babysitter who said that when father got there the girls rushed to greet him and showed excitement to see him. That was the last time she saw them alive.

After receiving the warm loving greeting the father reportedly slit their throats, tucked them in bed and sent the mother a text telling her that she could come home because the girls were dead.

The father’s lawyer said father was depressed and had been treated for depression. Perhaps he and the Colorado shooter had the same psychiatrist, or perhaps these psychiatrists were from the same training program as that pundit?

I have been studying the accounts of adults whose parents score high on the Hare psychopathy test. The majority say that although they might have suspected their parent was deviant they still tried to solicit love from that parent. Obviously a child’s exuberance should not be used as an indication that there is a healthy parent child relationship.

I wonder if the mother had been told by those around her and family court officers that she should not interfere with the father’s access to the girls? or that she should be careful not to say anything derogatory about him? If the custodial parent is not allowed to look after the safety of the children then tragedies like this will continue to happen because I know from firsthand experience that many family court judges do not care. The system accepts the deaths and abuse of children as collateral damage in their battle to support the sick ideology that every child is better off with a relationship with both their parents. They are unable to identify these abusers.

Links to accounts of the story:

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/241523/group/homepage/
http://www.thenorthwestern.com/viewart/20120725/OSH0101/307250166/Aaron-Schaffhausen-stand-trial-death-three-daughters-Two-Rivers-Wisconsin


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39 Comments on "Honoring the memory of Amara, Sophie and Cecilia"

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Dr. Leedom – I was horrified when I saw the news accounts of this incident. Your questions are legitimate – I wonder what the mother was told. The courts need to be educated.

Liane, I feel that there is change desperately needed in the psych communities as well as the legal systems.

Because there is so much status riding on erroneous opnions and scores, the truths of spathy/ppathy are obliterated, on all levels. These beautiful and fragile human beings were slaughtered like sheep, and I cannot describe my horror for those children and the mother who had to bury them.

Liane, thans for bringing this article to our attention, as sad as it is. I sit here with tears running down my face and I think about how many children suffer at the hands of a psychopathic parent, though maybe not to this extent.

I too sought approval from my psychopathic father, who totally betrayed me, though he didn’t kill my body, just my spirit. Just my trust. Even as short a time ago as 5 years I sought approval from a controlling mother. It is natural for a child or an adult child, to seek approval from a parent. I feel like an orphan now with my wonderful step father dead, and my egg donor NC, even though I’m 65 years old. I don’t really think we ever quit wanting approval from a parent even if they are abusive.

When you published the story of Dr. Amy Castillo, and the loss of her children several years ago, I went for days but then as I read the news reports I saw that there were other parents like her husband that murdered their children to get back at the nurturiing parent in order to punish them. Unfortunately it is NOT as “rare” as we might think it is if we focus on seeing these articles which usually don’t make national headlines or “kick up” as much “fuss” and I think they should.

The articles about Amy Castillo’s children, and the article about Baby Gabriel Johnson, are here on LoveFraud. Parents who use children to punish the nurturing parent. The ultimate “fark you”

We have heard too many of these stories recently and this just cannot continue to go on at the current rate. This is a democracy which implies every human being has a say in the governance of this country and by extension in the law. I want to join and advocacy group. Who knows any good groups to point me to?

And yes the family court judges just dont care. The kids dont belong to them. We have been thought that emotions are bad and we should suppress them in the interest of rationality and this kind of thinking has created zombies who have no feelings for the sufferings of others. I remember the guy who killed his children in WA state. Everything indicated a seriously disturbed man and he was even the prime suspect in the disappearance of his wife but he was awarded supervised visits.
Even supervised visits are wrong, the burden of the cost is too high for the parties to bear which results in minimal to no supervision.

My heart has bled too many times, this is just not right… the implied message to all women is “if you make the mistake of having kids with a monster then you have to live with the consequences… too bad for you… get it right next time dummy!”

Jesus, He had previously harmed one of the girls!
What was she thinking? Now this poor Mother faces a lifetime of regret……over a stupid decision to allow him to see the children on their own because she didn’t want to see him!!

He took advantage of the situation. He knew exactly what he was doing. Ox, couldnt have said it better….”the ultimate fark you”

What a [email protected]$t^*d.

Liane…..yes, it certainly does apply to those agencies. What is it, then? Blinders on, or what? How is it that people just simply do not hear (listen to) the concerns of a parent with regard to the welfare of their children?

I remember attempting to speak with an adult social services worker about the spath son’s military frauds and the well-being of my youngest son who was living with him, at that time. The spath son is diagnosed Borderline Personality Cluster B, and fits every criteria of socipathy. Yet, my concerns were ignored and I was reamed out by this worker as being the cause for the spath son’s BPD and that I was a “bad parent” because I hadn’t left the abusive marriage sooner.

It’s simply incredible. And, the whole system is hopelessly broken, it seems.

Those poor beautiful children were slaughtered and are gone, now. And, the mother has to wake up, each day, and figure out how to “live” with the horrific tragedy and fight self-blame for the rest of her life. I cannot imagine this situation, at all, in my wildest nightmares.

Not sure I agree with the Teacher’s description of her colleague’s attitudes to children.

Who is to blame?

Aaron Schaffhausen.

If he had harmed one of the girls, as the newspaper article stated, how come child protection weren’t alerted and why did the Mother allow him unsupervised access?

Strongawoman, I can understand the root of your questions. Having tried to deal with the “proper” agencies, law enforcement, and the Courts, I have to say that my experiences were profound in that all of these agencies and branches exist, but not one of them works together, on any level.

The Courts hear domestic cases, sometimes almost 100 in a day, with the same complaints, the same scenarios, the same accusations, and so forth. As sad as it is true, Judges are not there to sympathize with anyone. They are charged with delivering decisions based strictly upon “fact.” And, as we all know, spaths have an uncanny ability and talent to distort and fabricate them.

Child protective agencies in an average city of 60,000 residents face approximately 600 cases each month that they need to investigate. The case workers are tired, frustrated, disillusioned, and burned out. After a year of paperwork, courtroom testimonies, official reports, and recommendations that are typically ignored, they lose any belief that their intentions could cause positive change. They come to detest their jobs, their cases, and everyone associated with their work.

Law Enforcement isn’t so much of a joke as a breeding ground of sociopathy, itself. This is not to suggest that all people in Law Enforcement are sociopaths – this is not what I mean to convey. But, there is a pervasive code of silence within the ranks of Law Enforcement that allows disdain, mistreatment, misconduct, and very, very bad behaviors to run rampant. There are, absolutely, some very dedicated men and women in Law Enforcement, but even those dedicated members face an uphill climb in all scenarios because of stringent rules and guidelines for procedures, evidence collection, reports, etc.

A custodial parent who is trying to protect their child(ren) from their ex-spouse or sociopathic parent often comes off looking like a raving lunatic by all parties involved that should be working for the benefits of the children. Nothing that the non-spath parent says or does results in any positive action. The Courts hold that even bad parents have “rights.” Law Enforcement loathes domestic or family calls. And, child protective agencies have about 3 minutes to spare for each case.

That the mother allowed unsupervised access to the children may simply have been her attempt to “keep the peace,” and believe that the father was finally stepping up to the plate. She could also have been so tired, depressed, desperate, and beaten down by the systems, herself, that she believed that she didn’t have legal options to prevent the father’s visitation.

Certainly, the murderer of the children is utlimately to blame, but these agencies and courts were created to “protect” and “serve.” They are doing neither. Protection is simply a word that can be found in the dictionary. There is no protection, truly, if we consider it. And, “service” to the public? Uh…..no.

As an aside, I had a house and a neighbor moved in, next door. This new neighbor was an ex-convict and openly sold drugs in broad daylight, 200 yards from a school, and there was a conga-line of cars each Tuesday lined up around the block to pick up their drugs. This man would stand on his front porch and not even attempt to be sly about exchanging drugs for money, all in front of his 4-year-old son, and 2-year-old daughter.

Across the street, not 40 yards from the front porch where these open-air, farmer’s marketesque deals were taking place, lived a police officer. And, nothing – not one thing – was ever done to stop this.

I often heard domestic violence ocurring, next door, as this ex-convict bounced his “baby-mama” from wall to wall with the children screaming in terror.

So, my personal view is that all of the agencies and courts exist in a mock attempt to represent “order” and “safety” to the public. But, when it comes to actual proactive steps and decisions, it’s rarely a positive and “just” result.

JMHO….Brightest blessings

More cases from today’s paper:

3 shot dead in Pa; girl taken, found safe in Ohio
http://news.yahoo.com/3-shot-dead-pa-girl-taken-found-safe-135829942.html

Horror as father ‘pushes baby and ex out of third-floor window ” then climbs down fire escape to attack them again’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2180169/Horror-father-Frederico-Bruno-pushes-ex-girlfriend-baby-floor-window.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

just……………why?

strongawoman – that mother may have been trying to have an amicable relationship as much as possible in order to benefit her daughters. I know because I do the same. Anytime I do anything that upsets the ex the children are punished for it by his tempers, he is cold and angry while he has them and expresses great bitterness about women in general and me specifically which the girls share with me and they find upsetting… The father of my daughters (my wonderful choice of (now ex)- husband) has physically hurt my girls – been very rough and has on two occasions crossed the line with my oldest. He has been reported to CPS. I had the kids therapist do it so it did not come from me but directly from what they told her… The kids were interviewed by the police as well. Nothing happened. I have no legal right to prevent him from seeing the girls.

Here in CA and in many locations in the US they are committed to both parents being in the children’s lives despite what is best for them. Often father’s have greater rights than mothers.

Do I think it possible he would hurt them in order to hurt me – truthfully I’m not sure. I bend over backwards to make his life easy – he is supposed to have 40% custody but has in essence 10-15% so he has plenty of free time for himself to do whatever he wants – I do not go to court and get the full amount of support – receive about half and count myself lucky for that and that his healthcare covers my kids. He is a firefighter and works 2 days a week and makes twice what I make working 5 and taking almost full time care of the girls and he still hates me… Funny thing is – as irritating as it is having to deal with him – I thank God for it because he gave me the greatest blessings of my life.

My therapist told me that she had a patient who reported her ex-husband’s abuse of the kids 5X (yes FIVE TIMES) and nothing was done and finally one day the kids were at Dad’s and he threatened to kill the 13 year old boy and this time the kid had had enough and he called CPS himself. Do you want to know what happened to the Mom? She was brought up on charges for allowing the kids to be in an unsafe environment! Yup – she was in trouble for letting them go to his house yet when she asked for the help to prevent it they wouldn’t give it to her. That is the insanity of the CPS and court system when it comes to children’s well being these people don’t know enough to make a decent decision much of the time and with the N/P & S’s looking so rational and calm and cool with the other parent freaking and upset the courts choose the “more appealing” person who is usually the evil one and the reason the other parent is a wreck is because they want to save their kids and feel helpless. During DV counseling I accompanied a friend to her court for custody hearings and the DV advocate kept telling her to be calm and not get upset with the ex no matter what or she would lose.

Breckgirl, I’m sorry that you’re dealing with such a nasty situation. I can’t even describe the first exspath & custody/visitation nonsense – it was incredible, it really was. A court-appointed counselor even said that he thought that the first exspath was a sociopath, and the court gave him physical custody of BOTH.

So…..the system is beyond broken. It needs to be dismantled and rebuilt in some manner. The first order of business would be to abolish “no-fault” divorce. The second would be to employ better-trained CPS and DFYS workers that are required, as a part of their employment, to engage in continuous counseling therapy. The third would be for laws to be altered to reflect that “both parents” are not always the best option. Employers should be involved, as well as child-advocacy by people who have no emotional involvement with the children at stake.

There is no “win” where children are involved. Very few divorces end amicably with both parents working together for the sakes of the children and putting aside their own issues. This is a rare, rare occurance. And, the only people who “win” in these cases are the attorneys. They are paid whether the children get a fair shake, or not. They are paid whether or not the children are in danger, or not.

Finally, the psychiatric and psychological communities must come to an understanding about sociopathy, the definition, and the absolute fact that it cannot be cured, treated, or managed, in any way, shape, or form.

These are dire changes for dire circumstances. Children have no voice, and their non-spath parents have even less of a voice.

(sigh)

It’s a fine line to walk and a crap shoot regarding what is going to put them over the edge on any given day.

Breckgirl, I hear you. I totally sympathise with your situation. You do the best you can under the cosh that is the so called law, so called fairness to all. I live in the UK and after the horrific murder of Victoria Climbie, the law was changed. External agencies such as social services and others were encouraged to work together. Single point of access. This law was meant to alert all public services that are involved in child abuse cases or children on the child protection register. They must work together for the benefit of the child. The child is paramount. Always. Trouble is you can’t legislate for evil.

If I sounded judgmental. It wasn’t my intention. I too had an abusive husband. He would “punish” my children if I didn’t toe the line.
I was referring to the newspaper article where the unfortunate Mother agreed to let him see the girls alone, because she didn’t want to have contact.

It’s a cruel game of cat and mouse. And as is so often the case here, the perpetrators are called the victim.

Strongawoman, you didn’t sound judgemental. And, that you live in the UK adds to the mix on this amazing site.

I’m in the US, and there are many, many beautiful places and amazing things in this country. It is vast, it is large, and it is broken, badly. We are the only “progressive” nation on earth that holds that health care is a privilege and not a basic human right. We also hold that “division of assets” means straight down the middle without any heed paid to whom did what to whom, except if one party contracts STD from their partner’s activities. We “say” that a person is innocent until proven guilty, and that’s often the case in criminal issues. But, when it comes to domestic Law, divorce Law, and Civil Law, it is not only grossly “unfair,” but it is rarely sensible or reasonable.

I have family in the UK and have often dreamed of going there, forever. I’ve never been, but it seems like a much closer society. I don’t know this, but it’s how it seems to me.

At any rate….you are 100% right: it is, indeed, a cruel game of cat and mouse, and perpetrators in this country are treated more fairly than their victims.

Strongawoman – thanks – I just wanted you to understand how far beyond our control it is regarding the visitation etc. I am betting she was not able to keep them away from him and quite frankly he appears to me (based on what he did) the type to have come and murdered the children even if he had no visitation rights… He wanted to hurt her and he did and my guess is no piece of paper would have stopped him.

So sad. So so sad…

Truth,
I don’t know if we as a society are more caring. Yes we have the welfare state and the National Health Service but the divide between rich and poor is becoming greater especially since the change of government a few years ago.
Sheesh, if they have their way Lord knows what will become of the less fortunate in our society. It just seems to me that the values of the socialists, the people who believe that everyone deserves they’re basic needs are met, are increasingly having their beliefs trodden into the dirt. Dog eat dog rules. I’m alright and fark you. NO, NO, NO!! Don’t get me going on politics, Truthy. It sucks Yah!!

Ps Caps are for shouting, Lol

Breckgirl, thanks for sharing.You are fighting with one arm tied behind your back, effectively. I see that. It is horrendous the lengths you have to go through to keep your part of the bargain.

No bargaining with terrorists I say. But the law says you must…..to remain fair. WTF!

And I echoe your sentiments. Terribly sad, may they rest in peace

Strongawoman, indeed, because of the broken system(s), we’re pretty much hogtied. The best I feel that I can do is to spit in the general direction of the exspath. Ptooie. And, that’s it.

Until changes are made, and until such time as society creates a cultural change, sociopathy will continue to see “benefits” of being excused as a “personality disorder,” and the victims will continue being blindsided, abused, robbed, and murdered.

Very, very, sad…..all of it

Morning Everyone…

I have been reading all of your posts.
Mind if I chime in?

Having had a 2-1/2 year old Grandson murdered (he would be 22 years old this year)
I can see what this monster did to his own children was a means to hurt their mother.

It was the same scenario in my Grandson’s murder.
The ultimate ‘fark you’ just like Ox said.

This MORON grew up with my Daughter (why would you not trust someone to not hurt a child?) I mean, that’s unfathomable; right? Not so. Even when it’s their own, sometimes….This mother wasn’t paying attention nor heeding the red flags and there had to have been many! Perhaps she was dominated by “IT” as well.

I would have absolutely REFUSED to allow the kids to go with him. But, then, many times, they are very charming and can mirror a persona of peace and smiling….while underneath they are boiling about to erupt. At any moment.

Of course, the mother, herself, could have been very controlled and dominated by this puke as well. All I know is that I don’t think he deserves to die (ie: death penalty)…that’s too easy. Puts them out of their misery…
He deserves to live, like the puke who murdered my Grandson, for an eternity, RIGHT WHERE HE IS. And when he gets sick, and near death, they need to revive him and make him well again, so he can go right back there where he belongs. I want him to live to be a very very very old man.

As far as law enforcement goes and the courts:
I absolutely agree, 1,000%, that they need to be overhauled and updated and meant to include crimes of psychological basis. Victimization of any kind needs to be thwarted and NON HARM to all should be the given as an absolute right.

I do think, judging on the courts and law enforcement, in my area, that more and more attention is starting to be given to these types of psychological crimes. But as I read, more and more, that is not the norm in the majority of the country. Least not from what I am seeing and hearing. I do think that the courts and law enforcement are very short staffed, especially now, with all the budget cuts and economy faltering like it has been. They are overworked and understaffed.

I do think that we need to PROTECT OURSELVES more and realize that someone may not always be there to catch our backs. I am not saying run out and purchase a weapon, but what I am saying is be more ‘aware’, watch for the signs of this type of psychopathy. It’s flourishing and they need to nip it in the bud before it becomes an accepted ‘norm’.

Our children are growing up and watching all this.
They are becoming desensitized.

In a Civil court of law, are not punitive damages awarded for pain and suffering? Are these injuries not considered separate when tallying up the damages? If that is true (which it is) then why isn’t there a legal provision prohibiting these types of behavior? Prior to a completely horrid end, as happened here.

The system that was suppose to be protecting these kids is broken. Because the people running the system, itself, are broken. You have to feed the stomach, sometimes, to feed the mind, right? Perhaps we need to educate more. We need to make those in charge aware but people don’t want to hear about the ‘boogeyman’ hiding in their backyard. It rattles their world and scares them. Understandable, however, let’s not all become ‘deer in the headlights’.

I am not one to say: “There ought to be a law for that; a law for this…” WHAT I AM SAYING (caps used for emphasis) is that victimization is unacceptable for any reason at any level. Victimization is victimization. Period.

It takes awareness and people learning and spreading the word and speaking out and demanding from our lawmakers that this area be absolutely monitored. Absolutely.

Some how, some way, we need to look at things a whole lot different in the way things are done. To protect the innocent as well as protecting the sick and twisted. They are the ones who end up being the ‘protected one’ when you really think about it. They hide behind their ‘illness’ using it for all they can get, the same way they do everything else. Then they are ‘protected’, again, when they are sent away for their hideous crimes and nice and safe, unlike their victims.

It’s up to US, right now, to safeguard ourselves and to pay attention and to teach our children and the people we love…there seems to be a whole new breed of ‘human’, if that is what you can call them, coming up behind us on the evolution scale and I wonder what has happened to things like compassion, common sense, virtues – respect, dignity, purpose of character?

Where did all those things go?
Aren’t our children being taught these things anymore?
Is the world REALLY a cold, uncaring, selfish and narcissistic place after all? Hm?

My heart is torn in two for these poor children.
Why is it that the children are the ones who always suffer the most? How we speak to our children and treat our children and the example we must become for them in all the right and good ways, the instruction we give them along the way, makes all the difference in the world later on in their lives. What we do NOW will make them how they are later.

I pray for these children.
This is inexcusable, that nobody saved these children short of this. Especially since he had already shown a propensity for violence towards his children. I am so sorry for the mother. Should of, could of…and now it’s too late for them. I pray she will find healing along the way.

It’s this kind of shocking demoralization and lack of respect for life that is deadening the world.

Rest in Peace Beautiful Children…
I know you have lots of playmates in Heaven…
Your lives have touched mine. Always.

EDIT: They always say that they can’t ‘legislate morality’,
however, perhaps now would be a good time to start.

Dupey

Dupey, I agree that “something” needs to be done, and that it’s long past due. Who would spearhead such a monumental effort? How many people would actually involve themselves in this effort? If people are unable, or unwilling, to “get it” about sociopathy and its ramifications, how do we “re-educate” them that the “bad people” out there are walking right next to them in a grocery store?

And, that your grandchild was murdered causes me such intense grief for you and your loss – for the loss of all of these people who didn’t deserve to have their lives ended at the hands of another human being.

UGH…..will it ever end?!

When my Grandson was murdered, I did the only logical thing that there was to do. I spearheaded a Statewide campaign to incorporate an ‘awareness’ program in our entire school system. It taught children from the ages of kindergarten through high school how to protect themselves and to stay safe.

I saw the sensationalism around my Grandson’s murder on every television screen I looked at, at the time. The first thought that came to my mind: “Oh my God: there are probably thousands of children, sitting at home, watching this on television!”

I couldn’t let the children see that the ‘bad guy’ was out there and grown ups doing nothing about it. So, I stepped up to the plate and tried to ensure that everyone’s children saw the opposite side of the coin. I felt if the papers and media wanted sensationalism, I gave them some, only from the other side of the coin. I used THEM to get a message across and it worked.

My program was accepted through the Statewide PTA and I have given many speeches to them on the whole, over HOW TO KEEP YOUR CHILDREN SAFE. It is now incorporated into the curriculum for all the children in the state. Proof that you CAN come back out of the storm and do something bigger and larger than what has been thrown on you!

Yes, something, absolutely needs to be done to protect our children and that starts at home and in school.

Who would spearhead such a monumental effort?
Each of us, collectively, in our own unique way.
Touching just one child’s life could mean survival for that child. It takes a whole village to raise a child, not just parents.

Thanks Truthspeak for your condolences.
The world can be a very harsh place for a child.
Sometimes they make it, sometimes they don’t.
I die, just a little bit, when I hear of children like this.

“ONE CHILD IS TOO MANY”

Dupey

Dupey, I cannot imagine this type of loss – I can’t. It is so incomprehensible to me that I can’t really describe how this type of loss makes me feel.

It is my most fervent hope that, once I have begun a true and developed recovery, I’ll have the ability to take some sort of “action” to bring awareness to agencies and governements, and to advocate for the voiceless, as well as the adult victims of sociopathy.

Right now, I’m in a state of crisis (other post), and I am not managing my triggers well, this morning, at all.

Hugs to you and my most sincere blessings…

Truthspeak: Sorry your ‘triggers’ are flipping this morning.
I have mornings like that too. I found that making myself busy and getting away from the thoughts helps me a lot.
Like chores or doing dishes…just simple things.

I have absolutely NO DOUBT that you will definitely step up when ever you have the opportunity and that is what it takes. Each of us has a voice if we only realize we need to use it. We can’t sit back and wait for someone else to do it because what if nobody else ever does?

CHANGE STARTS WITH ME.

I will light a candle and pray for you today, Truthspeak.
I want you to find peace on this day and I am absolutely sure you will.
Look for it, it’s there. Trust me.

My heart and wishes are with you.
You are strong enough to get through this.
I can hear your strength.

Love to you, My Friend ~ Dupey

For Amara, Sophie and Cecilia:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9Nh84lfvW0

Dupey

It is so frustrating to see such ignorance with the “professionals”. The lack of willingness to be educated. I just had a conversation with my own therapist, who has her Phd in psychology, has never heard of Robert Hare. She has other information on psychopathy and I wonder does she really have a clue to the true traits and how well they are hidden until a relationship with a “P” reveals what is under the mask…She too, is not willing to read more material when I bring the books to her…I find myself reading to her in our sessions…(i wonder if she is in observation mode then??) Kudos to those of you who keep pressing on to educate the ignorant and those who look at you like you are the crazy one..that is how they look at me anyway…In time, i hope to find a more articulate and simple way to express and deliver the truth.

This part: “I wonder if the mother had been told by those around her and family court officers that she should not interfere with the father’s access to the girls? or that she should be careful not to say anything derogatory about him??

Yes. Yes. And yes.

Without doubt I’m sure that was going on, if not from others, but likely in the mental space of the mother herself who couldn’t help but doubt. Nothing else makes sense when you don’t know about sociopaths/psychopaths. Nothing else makes sense. The cognitive dissonance of it all forces us to think that we somehow need to adjust our behavior to help fix the problem.

Depressed people don’t murder their children and then tuck them into bed and send a message to the wife to let her know that she children were dead (I mean seriously depressed people are usually hard-pressed to find the motivation to get out of bed and make a sandwich let alone pull of a malicious murder).

Sociopaths and Psychopaths do shit like that. Period.

I took my children and successfully hid them for over 14 years. Court proceedings took ten years but finally appeals the supreme court failed to restore access. I was prepared to take a leaky boat to anywhere to avoid court ordered access and I would have. However it destroys many parts of your life, career friends, community. You cannot be bothered to begin again in case you need to leave in a hurry. Finally he died, then when they could handle this information the children got access to his full medical and psychological reports. Finally in their twenties and thirties they understood the full picture and no longer blame me for preventing a relationship with their father. Finally they have admitted to forms of abuse which they had always previously denied. One of the children was harmed by him previously yet still I had to give him day time access. I avoided overnight access. I stuck out the day time access once a week for one year in a state of terror for their lives before I took to the hills. There was so much evidence of psychopathic traits yet access was still granted. I have such strong empathy that when I hear of a case like this I am depressed for weeks. It could so easily have been my life.

Denise Guiney good job! That’s HARD to do, with the tangle of the court systems and then the willpower you need to have as a newly single woman with children. My closest friend had nearly the opposite happen, unfortunately. Her mother is somewhere between a narc and a spath and she had her daughter (my friend) convinced all her life that her father was a sociopath. YEARS later, she got in contact with her father and went to live with him for some time. She got into therapy because her mother was driving her bonkers and suddenly it became clear what had really happened. She was swept away with the disordered parent and cut off from the normal one all her life. It’s really sad, because she never got to know her father and all her life, part of her identity was this thinking that she had a sociopath for a father. Turns out, he’s a total sweetie and nothing at all like her mother painted him to be.

My mom finally understands after many years of trying to keep a relationship open between my father and I (she felt guilty if she denied him his parental rights and she always was verrry pushy trying to make me see him when I wanted nothing to do with him) that being the sperm donor does NOT entitle him to abuse me and her (even though she has been divorced from him for over 25 years). I wish my mother would have had the self-confidence to see what he really was and kept me away from him completely my whole life since birth. Knowing him did absolutely zero good for my development, quite the opposite. So I really take my hat off to you. GOOD JOB! That’s not easy and I’m glad your children understand too.

Hey yawll, I’m new to the community, duped by a sociopath, and just recently realized many people in my life as sociopath… so am continuing to learn and research this topic. I’m wondering, since it seems pretty easy to test someone to see if they are indeed a sociopath, why can’t we have them labeled, so we, as a society can watch out for them? Maybe we could force them all to get a big red P tattoo on their foreheads? The ones in my life do not have a record, they only prey on hearts and lives, but the damage is extensive.

Dear Sunshine,

I wish it were that “easy” to test people for psychoathy, LOL and I agree, put a big red P on their foreheads! LOL

Welcome, and sorry you have the credentials to join our group, but if you do this is a good one. Welcome. and God bless.

I did not hear of this incident although I try to keep up with U.S. news about sociopaths as much as I can. I remember my mother not allowing my Ppath father to see myself or my brother but she did this only because of her own spathy – out of spite to him. When it suited her she had no problems turning my young brother and self over to his care and custody for weekends or two week breaks.

It is such a shame that the courts do not appoint a lawyer for children in child custody cases immediately. Someone has to look out for the children and so far we are a long way from giving them our protection. He said/she said is a bunch of junk that does not serve a child/ren at all. An objective person needs to take over if things don’t smell right in a custody case.

I’m praying for those precious babes…and the mom.

Cherylann

Sunshinehair, there is no “test” in existence that can clearly and accurately identify a sociopath. It is only through long-term exposure to their choices and behaviors that can categorize them as “fitting the profile” of a sociopath.

As far as labeling, cataloging, or identifying sociopaths for the general public, it’s not against the Law to make bad choices and decisions that adversely affect other human beings. Sad, but true. And, most often, spaths “win” in the Court systems.

So, the personal and collective endeavor should be to raise awareness, educate the public that these people DO exist, and to redefine the parameters, clinical definitions, and legal systems to address the carnages of sociopathic entanglements.

Brightest blessings

SpeakingUp, there are court-appointed advocates for children, but it must be requested. They are “guardians ad litem,” and they typically are either family members (ALWAYS a bad idea) or an objective party such as a social worker or another attorney.

The “reason” that a family member is a bad idea for guardian ad litem is that they are emotionally involved, sometimes on behalf of the spath. Social workers are entierly too overworked and underpaid to be a good choice. Attorneys can be helpful, but only within the parameters of their governing Laws.

Brightest blessings

Aaron Schaffhausen last week admitted killing his daughters – Amara, Sophie and Cecilia. He’s claiming that he is mentally ill. Read:

Lawyer: Wis. dad erratic before killing daughters, on News.Yahoo.com.

http://news.yahoo.com/lawyer-wis-dad-erratic-killing-daughters-165426274.html

Link supplied by a Lovefraud reader.

I couldn’t read any links to this story.The story was enough to make me SICK AT HEART!Imagine getting a txt like he sent the mother of those darling girls?!He can claim ANYTHING he wishes,he knows the difference between right and wrong!How BRUTAL & EVIL that this father chose to get back at the mother by taking the lives of these innocent little girls!!!

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