By | April 8, 2011 77 Comments

If someone is violent, they are capable of worse

By Ox Drover

Recently on Lovefraud there have been several people who have talked about how their ex-significant others have been violent, and yet they still have strong feelings for these (mostly) men. The readers find it difficult to go “no contact” and refuse to listen to the pleas of these guys to get back with them.

Statistics show that more women are hurt or murdered at the time that they are breaking up with someone who has formerly been violent than at any other time. Breaking up with someone who is physically violent can be dangerous. Staying with someone who has proven they are physically dangerous and capable of violence is more dangerous.

Here are stories about an ex-cop Eddy Coello from New York who has been arrested after his wife was found strangled and dead. She was apparently not the only woman he hurt either.

Eddy Coello, ‘person of interest’ in wife’s murder, assaulted and terrorized me, ex Glory Perez says, on

Ex-cop Eddy Coello arrested by NYPD police on day he skips murdered wife Tina Adovasio’s funeral, on

Ex-NYPD cop Eddy Coello arraigned in wife Tina Adovasio’s murder, on

Not everyone who murders someone has been violent before the murder, but many times they have been. They have “worked up” to the murder, either with lesser violence or with posturing and threatening.

Murder is the ultimate form of control, the ultimate form of revenge. Sometimes it is planned well in advance, and sometimes it is an impulsive act—but whatever the situation, it is a final solution. Murder is something that can’t be made amends for. It is the end for the victim.

If you are associated with someone who is violent, get away from them. Stay away from them. Keep yourself and your children safe. Do whatever you must to to remain safe.

An excellent source of information on keeping safe is Dr. Sherry L. Meinberg’s book,Toxic Attention—Keeping Safe from Stalkers, Abusers and Intruders. Dr. Meinberg is personally acquainted with being abused and holds the record with the FBI for the number of years she was abused, beaten and stalked by her former husband, an extremely violent  mental health patient. Whatever you do, however, don’t think for one moment, “It could never happen to me. S/he wouldn’t go that far.”


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Ox Drover

I posted this article, mainly for a couople of bloggers I hae not seen in a few days who were worrie3d thattheir exconvict and violent X would lharm them.

Tonight on dateline though there was an arcile about a man named John GArdner, he had raped a 13 year old lgirl and in the two psyc reports he got before being sentence, one report said “Lock him up- for the max—the max was ONLY 10 yrs) the other psych report said “Oh, he’s treatable”—-so he was given a 5 year sentence (instead of the maximum 10 and guess what….in 2009 he abducted raped and murdered a 14 year old girl and then he flew under the radar until right before Christmas 2009 he tried to rape a gal but she got away, then two months later he grabbed and raped a 17 yr old and killed her too. Her panties gave DNA and since he was a sex offender they had him by his DNA on her clothes.

The parent of the second girl he murdered gave up asking for the death penalty for him to do life without parole if he also confessed to the first murder of Amber Dubois and located her body.

Violent predatory offenders who rape and murder are not in my mind receptive to treatment that will make them safe. How many rapes does a man have to commit to do life? Or get the death penalty. When will it stop? When will the laws, cops, courts, judges, lawmakers see the hand writing on the wall?


Informative and helpful to be cautious.

My stbx did aggressive things and never crossed the line of hitting me. He punched holes in walls; broke down a door jamb to get in my bedroom after I locked myself after an argument; locked me out of the house. After we separated, and stayed in same house, I refused to talk to him and asked him to write a note if he had something to say to me. He’d throw a note on the floor, so I’d need to stoop down and be in that inferior submissive position picking it up–how disrespectful when I think back. He’d write notes “Don’t take advantage of me”. Or later on he’d say “You’re stuck with me.”

Now that he found out I was seeing someone, I wonder if it’ll trigger his control more.

And… scared to report that a b/f I dated briefly is potentially a physical abuser–wonder what his 3 exes would say. His taking my keys a tell tale sign. His blaming email after I asserted I wanted time to myself and wouldn’t see him one weekend. His blaming email, accusing me of not knowing who I really was, keeping my daughter out of our relationship, and seriously questioning if this relationship was right for him. That gut instinct when a voice told me to keep him away from my kid was so loud, yet it was not protective of ME.

Now I feel I brushed up against a dangerous abuser. That possessiveness, this glaze over the eyes when they go in a trance, like when my cat would hunt a mouse, he was disconnected from reality and gone in this hunting trance. I’ve seen that scary glaze.

Ox Drover

Dear Warrior,

People who punch holes in walls and intimidate people, and deliberately humiliate others and try to control others are already “violent” but that violence can get worse. Too many times people come here and talk about how violent their psychopath was and how scared they are of him, and yet….go back. They have a gut feeling, and yet they ignore it for themselves.’

Recently there have been several posters here who talked about how violent their psychopath was….and yet they couldn’t maintain NC, they felt sorry for him.

The woman in these articles didn’t think he would kill her either. I often think about the girl my P son murdered, she didn’t know what she was dealing with and it cost her her life. I have no doubt that my son had “acted tough” or that she knew he carried a gun (which with him being on parole was a felony crime in itself just for him to have one) but she didn’t realize that he would BE VIOLENT to the extent of really harming her. Taking her life.

If they show violence and willingness to hurt, even deliberately hurt someone, they are capable of MUCH MORE VIOLENCE. We can’t assume we are “safe” because they “wouldn’t go that far.”

I am glad that you broke it off with that guy with the car keys thing, he sounded already like he was very capable of being “ugly” and hateful if nothing else….just over the camera deal.

Your gut is smart, so listen to it! Avoid people that have behavior that is a red flag. Don’t talk yourself out of it. BE CAUTIOUS. Don’t live in terror, but do live with CAUTION. (((hugs)))


DW – ‘and never crossed the line’

Well …….YES he did BIG time. ‘Normal’ people do NOT repeat NOT punch holes in walls or break down doors.
Only MONSTERS do that.

Ditch this piece of shite and don’t look back.
Huh! Who am I to talk? Looking back my kids gave me the same advice but I was not ready to listen (boink) With the help from peeps on LF I FINALLY did it.

Good luck:)


Hi Oxy,
After I brought home a cop so he’d let me get in the house after locking me out, he NEVER did anything overtly physically violent again. But deep down I think he despised me for “betraying” him. And turned insidiously psychologically hurtful.

But did I forget the time he shook his fist in my face, while I was holding the baby and said he’d “bash my face in”? Oh, and I forgot the time he grabbed my by the neck and pressed against the wall saying in red rage not to ever lock him out of the room–after he broke down the door jamb.

My daughter tells me that now he is looking for a supportive fan for him movie about gangsters tying up the husband, raping the wife, then putting them on a boat with explosives, and all kinds of schemes of violence, crime, rape, etc. He used to tell me this movie script and want me to be supportive and I’d say all the violence is disturbing so I can’t take interest sorry. He’d get offended that I wasn’t encouraging his creativity. Now he tells the same script to our daughter, and she shook her head to me saying, “it’s so WEIRD.”

When I FIRST met him–I think I missed a ton of clues due to the language difference and cultural difference–he’d tell me stories about how he took out a pocket knife and was joking around with a girl on the street saying “Give me your money!” and she ran in the bar and called the police. Then he was arrested for armed robbery, and he described this as a gross misunderstanding and missing a silly joke. Back then I thougt the story was amusing and he was funny. He also told me of his numerous arrests as a teen for possession of pot, and somehow he was always the victim, framed, and in the wrong place when all his friends were doing it but not him, and poor he was the one caught. Every 28 times! And his daddy would bail him out and expunge the FBI records so he can have a clean record and work in a bank. NONE of these stories were a red flag to me.

DId I ever tell you that my therapist told me on phone that what he did in her office was SOCIOPATHIC? After we quit joint therapy with her, she continued to see just me, and once he asked to come with me to discuss how to split up money, and cajoled and connived why I should give him half my savings. She watched and listened to the way he used my trust of her to mediate this, and his pretense to be protective of our daughter’s wellbeing, to soften me up of his good motives, and then, btw, say I should give him half my money. At that point I still saw us as a couple, “working things out” so I was still open to all kinds of compromise and sharing. Her using the word SOCIOPATHIC gave me pause and I read the Sociopath Next Door. . . couldn’t believe, MY OWN husband would want to deceive ME?????? Could not comprehend.


Hi Candy,
Re. his crossing the line…

I can’t tell you why I would have thought any of the above was NORMAL aside from it being familiar as my father acted out of control and really mean and verbally abusive. It just looked familiar… and seeing my mother not bat an eye at these behaviors, including hitting her in front of me, well, I just did not see anything different in my life before.

Very sad, but I don’t know yet what a kind and respectful relationship looks like.


Dancing – It sounds like you grew up expecting the assaults your mother suffered as being ‘normal’

Ok, if you are in a relationship
#1 Hitting someone is NOT normal. People do should not do that. Fullstop.
#2 Threatening someone – nope that’s not normal/acceptable either. Fullstop
#3 Abuse in ANY form is unacceptable. Fullstop.

Give yourself time to heal before you jump in to another relationship. Read here and find out what is acceptable in a relationship (and what is not)

You are among people who understand (my ex kicked the door off it’s hinges too!! and much worse) So yep, been there got the t shirt. Ain’t gonna do it again in a hurry.

Ox Drover

Dear Dancing,


Ox Drover

Dear Dancing,

Starting to recognize what is normal and what is not is the first steps in finding peace and normalcy and NOT ACCEPTING ABUSE.

Learning to set boundaries and to say NO, I WILL NOT BE TREATED THAT WAY!!!! are steps in the right direction.

We are “set up” to accept abuse as normal or expected by growing up around it, seeing it modeled for us…but we can learn that it is NOT okay and that we can provide for ourselves.

Psychopaths do not have others well fare at heart, and we must keep our own welfare in mind when we deal with them. We must not assume that they are being honest with us.

You remembering the abusive, mean, hateful, spiteful things that your husband did to try to control you should put you on alert that the man is ABUSIVE. Abusive people do not have our best interest at heart and we must PROTECT OURSELVES and our children from them. Not Pity them.

That thing about the threats to go to court if you don’t give in on the tax issues to his benefit…well you may indeed have to go to court with him, but STICK TO PROTECTING YOURSELF. He is NOT going to play “fair” no matter what you do. If you gave him ALL the tax deductions it would not make him any nicer or less abusive. You can’t placate them. They think they are ENTITLED to it.

Oh, BTW his “story” about the “armed robbery” is probably TRUE to a point, he probably DID try to rob someone and got arrested….but his story of it being a “joke”—NAH, THAT’S THE LIE PART!


Dancing – Ox is right. They tell us an element of the truth and make it out to be more/less than it was but in there somewhere there is MORE. This guy is dangerous.
As for playing fair – forget it. There are plenty of posts on here about the ‘unfairness’ of spaths.

On another note – I’m off to bed, got a funny tum – too much choc:(
Nite x


What a timely article. Ive been so relieved since my escape I hadnt thought of this. Yes, he was violent, yes, he is capable of losing it. For the most part he was able to keep physical control of himself. However, now that Im REALLY gone, REALLLLLLY gone, well…thats a different story. I was just informed he is in town a few days ago and Im sure skulking around. Im fully preparted to have him arrested, and of course he will bond out immediately, having loads of money and high toned attorneys at his disposal. I strangely enough dont feel afraid of him. Must be desensitised. The thing is though, I believe that IF anything happenns to me, if it is not him just totally coming unhinged, will be by a person he hires. Thats more his style. Not that he wouldnt take EXTREME pleasure in hurting me for daring to escape his matrix, his kingdom, but because of course he is all about saving his own skin first and foremost.
Hmm, interesting thought.
God help us all

Ox Drover

Dear Wisergirl,

KEEP SAFE! Just cause you’re paranoid doesn’t mean someone isn’t out to get you. Don’t try to talk yourself out of being CAUTIOUS or even afraid, but don’t let yourself be terrorized. Been there and done that!

I won’t live in TERROR, but I DO live with a reasonable amount of caution. (((hugs))) and God bless and keep you safe!


I know what you mean. I have the same kind of “awareness” that when he kills me, he will hire someone to do it. and he will have an alibi so the patsy will take the fall.

All sociopaths evade responsibility, in every way that there is to do so. It is first and formost in their minds when they wake in the morning: how will I do evil and scapegoat someone else into accepting/receiving the blame? Oh yes! a Patsy!

It could take 2 years or 25 years, they don’t care. They can be slow and methodical because they have no concept of time and besides, they are enjoying every millisecond of their fantasy. They are gleeeeeful at the thought. Yes, they are cold and calculating. We must be the same.

Here is my advice to you: LET HIM KNOW THAT YOU ALREADY KNOW HOW HE THINKS. write out what you believe he is capable of and let EVERYONE you know, understand it.

HECK, write a book about it. I want to do that, just to save my life. Once it is IN PRINT, they will have to actually re-think their strategy, because if you die, they are the prime suspect.

I know it sounds crazy, but everything you can document AND make him aware of, will STOP him in his EVIL tracks. These creatures are story-driven characters. If they BELIEVE they can get away with murder, they will commit murder. If the story is not in their favor, they will change tactics. MAKE HIM CHANGE TACTICS AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE.

love and hugs to you Wisegirl,
you deserve better than the mofo spath.


UM, Im preeetttttty sure Im not paranoid. Having lived with this freak for over 20 years. I dont scare easily, having been through all of his antics MANY times. And yes, Ive made others, including attorneys, friends, and police aware of what he is capable of. Yep, covered those bases numerous times. Who knows, maybe eventually it will catch up to him. . I mean hell, even John Gotti eventually went to prison right?
@skylar, lol, your last comment made me laugh literally out loud.
Hugs to you all

lesson learned


You don’t sound paranoid to me, but aware. There’s a difference I think. Sounds like you’ve done everything possible with that awareness to keep yourself safe. Maybe that’s where your peace is coming from?

Nice job!


Ox Drover


I wrote this article specifically for a woman who posted here for a while and then “disappeared” and hasn’t posted again….but she did let him “back in” once then tried to cut it off again.

85 % of the people who try to leave an abuser go back. EIGHT FIVE PERCENT. That statistic just makes me ill! But on the bright side there are 15% who STAY AWAY from the psychopath, the abuser. Unfortunately some of them find ANOTHER abuser….so the odds are stacked against people breaking free.

The woman I wrote the article for said he had tried to strangle her multiple times,,,,and had a criminal record (25 % of convicts are full blown score-30 or above on the PCL-R, and the AVERAGE score for all inmates is 22 and “normal” people score 4-5. so ANY convict or ex convict has a BIG CHANCE of being disordered and/or VIOLENT)

Not all psychopaths kill, but it is estimated that 75% of those who are involved in domestic violence are psychopaths….so again, the statistics are against anyone who has been violent in being “normal’—and all psychopaths are CAPABLE of harming someone else.

I hoped that this woman would read this article…I have no way of knowing if she did, or if she is alive or dead. My P-son killed a girl in cold blood, planned it for days, even announced he intended to to his convict friends….then blew her away without a backward glance.

Until he jwas arrested I NEVER THOUGHT he was capable of murder….robbery yes, fighting yes, but murder—cold blooded pre-meditated murder? NOT in a million years. But I WAS WRONG. In fact, I have some “survivor’s guilt”: about this girl’s death, because if he HAD COME HOME T6O LIVE AFTER HE GOT OUT OF PRISON THE FIRST TIME—THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN ME INSTEAD OF HER.

Yea, I know, he is the one who killed her, not me….it wasn’t my fault….I know that but still in the back of my mind is that little voice that says—-SO CLOSE—-it could have been you. Then, he tried to have one of his convict buddies kill me (even with him in prison still) and almost got away with it….SO CLOSE. He’s still in prison but I know if he ever gets out…he will try again. I hired a lawyer to fight his parole and “won’ this round and he won’t come up for parole for another 3 years now, but he WILL get out eventually, I know that. So I have to be PREPARED.

Being “paranoid” is not being stupid—-it can mean you are hyper-alert, or it can mean you are jjust AWARE of what someone is capable of. We love them, we try to talk ourselves out of believing they are CAPABLE of such EVIL, but almost every woman or man who was murdered by one of these EVIL people just didn’t believe they were capable of such evil.

I hope and pray that the woman I wrote this article for is alive and not with that EVIL man, but there is an 85% chance she is back with him. It makes me sad, but I hope if she doesn’t see this article or heed the warning, that someone will.

Donna has made a wonderful site here at LoveFraud and the posts that we put up today will hopefully be here for years to come so that someone else can read, learn and escape and not talk themselves out of thinking their Psychopath isn’t capable of murder.

I’m glad you are away, and for now safe! Be cautious, but don’t live in terror.


Been a long time away; very busy. But I still read the articles and posts at times. This is a good one; I saw the Dateline show just recently about Gardner. It is sad that both of the young girls would have lived if this man was monitored properly. They said he had over 1000 parole violations including visiting a prison, had marujuana in his car, and went too close to daycares/schools many times. Why did he even have an ankle monitor if no one tracks it? When I think back to my experiences with a certain person, I am reminded of the humiliation, the loss of a job at a school I loved, among other things. And I had the feeling several times of the hair standing on the back of my neck like it could get worse. I am thankful that only I was a victim. I couldn’t live with myself if something happened to my family. So glad to get out with minor damage? But I guess if people show you they can and do treat you badly, why wait around for more????????

lesson learned

(((( Ox ))))) I appreciate your care and concern for posters here facing violent spaths. I understand. P hubby almost killed my daughter while we were trying to break free. The rage of these people is unbelievable unless one is subjected to it.

I never thought last ex would or could be capable of murdering me.

I think my first post here was that he had pulled a loaded gun out on his bed pointed at me, while I was butt naked and right after sex, proclaiming that he showed it to me just for me to know he was going to protect his “family”….that didn’t include me.

He knows how to use that gun and he’s talked about it before, what a good shot he is.

Another thing that told me he might possibly do what he implied he would do is that during sex, he would rub his hand up from my abdomen to my THROAT AND SQUEEZE!! One time it was so bad, that it scared the daylights out of me. I dared NOT to say a word. And still…………I went back….I stuffed that too, and that’s how trauma bonded I was to him….the mindfucking was unbelievable Ox.

That’s why they go back. Your self esteem, worth and life are in the toilet……how could someone you love so deeply want to hurt you? I couldn’t understand this….

It was these two incidents towards the end that told me he could be CAPABLE of it. And he would have NOTHING to lose. Because I was the OW, no children with him, no nothing. He could have buried me in his backyard and no one would have cared, except my kids…..

Nothing to lose. I saw that hatred. Absolute hatred of me.

I thank GOD I’m alive, despite all the pain.

What you’re doing is good work for those who think it can’t happen. Even if that person has no prison record and was never violent before. The scott Peterson’s of the world, the OJ’s show me that.

It can happen. they CAN snap.

And they can hate you just that much to do it.



Ox Drover

Dear Teacher,

Welcome BACK!!!! Glad to hear from old friends on the blog!

Of course you are right, if people are “ugly” to us and treat us “badly” why hang around to see what they are capable of at the max?

That gardner thing made the hair on my head stand up all the way down to my toes. My P son had an ankle monitor too, but when he cut it off and took off I TOLD THEM WHERE HE WAS, and they did not even try to find him until 3 months later when he missed his court date! WTF????

The Trojan Horse Psychopath– I called his PO and the PO did not know he had 3 felony rapes for 3 children and had a sex offender status….WTF??? Didn’t know he was an SO??? I even talked to the supervisor of the PO and she wasn’t much help either. MADE ME WANT TO SCREAM! The parole board had let him out and was going to place him in a half way house WHICH IS PROHIBITED FOR SEX OFFENDERS—-only after I raised cain and threw a fit threatening to go to the news and the governor did they cancel his parole for 5 months until he found some church group to take him in when he got out. DUH!!!!!

That guy that took the photos of Liane Leedom when she was 17 murdered several women, one before he took her photo and a couple afterward….and he was on parole! WTF!!!! She dodged a bullet there, a pretty close call if you ask me!

It doesn’t make sense to me that NON-VIOLENT OFFENDERS are given long terms and VIOLENT offenders, REPEAT violent offenders are let out on parole and NOT MONITORED.

WAKE UP AMERICA!! Wake up Canada!!!! Wake up UK!!!!

When are we going to quit prosecuting women for selling their bodies, and prosecute the BUYERS like they are doing in Denmark? When are we going to quit prosecuting kids for selling a lid of grass and START prosecuting RAPISTS? Really prosecuting them! How about child molesters? Child abusers? Domestic abusers? ROBBERS?

How about accepting that there are those who are FUTILE to “treat” and give “another chance?”

Okay, Im off my rant now! LOL


Not too sure if anyone has shared this on here before, but a friend of mine sent it in an email. The Potter house is not too far from me, but I have never been. I am not promoting any religion here, but this is good advice that many people here might need to hear. It is about Letting Go by T.D. Jakes.

Ox Drover

LL, we posted over each other.

I know that I can’t convince some people that their X is dangerous, no matter what they have done to them….it is frustrating that the warnings here fall on “deaf ears”—but I was DEAF, I had ears but I did not hear, and eyes but I did not see, I was BLIND to the truth, too….so I am not any “smarter” than 99.9% of the bloggers here.

“There is no fanatic like a convert”—and I have been CONVERTED! I SEE NOW and I HEAR NOW, and I want everyone else in the world to see and hear the truth…but they can only see and hear when they are READY…and the truth is that some will never be ready to hear the truth or see the truth…and some will die because of their deafness and blindness. But, I will keep on speaking the truth as long as I have a forum here or anywhere to speak the truth.

The truth is though, we must EACH SAVE OURSELVES. I’m glad you are away from that scum bucket.

How is “junior” doing, BTW? Is he doing any better? ((hugs)))

Ox Drover

Teacher, I have read quite a bit of TD Jakes stuff and he writes well. Thank you for sharing that article. It is a good one. I’ve read it before, but the TRUTH of that article is so sound! LET IT GO.

this is another good blog on Healing and domestic violence.

lesson learned


When I posted that? Even though I thought it “odd” at the time (and deep inside fear) I didn’t know that was not normal!! You TOLD ME TO GET AWAY FROM THAT MAN, healthy people don’t DO THAT! I don’t know what saved my life. Or got my ass moving, that post or a combination of things saying he was cheating, But you HELPED ME! I DIDN”T REALIZE HOW ABNORMAL THAT WAS!!!!!!!!!!!!! That’s how TRAUMA BONDED I WAS TO HIM, OX. I HADN”T A CLUE!!!

I look at it this way: It must be very painful to see people come here, post and they are with violent offenders and never come back. It may be the ONLY time they were allowed to post anything. That is so sad and SO SCARY! Because YOU DON”T KNOW what happened to them! BUT…….if you save just ONE LIFE, and only just ONE….(maybe mine too? dunno?) Then it’s worth it, isn’t it? It’s worth it.
I’m beginning to realize, that anyone that bothers, and I do mean ANYONE that bothers to help someone when they’re dealing with a P/S/N, no matter in WHAT WAY, it saves a life. Donna, Sandra, Claudia, Steven, Liane, Martha, those that have the popularity and writing skills to get the word out….the posters here everyday, who come and pour their hearts out, some just reading for months to get clarity and finally have the courage to post…..EVERYONE’S position in helping to reach out, could possibly save a life.

For all of those that may be lost, ox, and I’m sure they exist, you’re a person who lives in reality, there is that ONE that is ALIVE today because of your story and because of what you SAY to them.

We each have a gift to offer.

About Jr. Well, let me tell ya what…..I got him into therapy but with an asshole who offered to do it for free, as a referral from the school counselor. After an hour with the both of us and my son’s manipulative skills, he decided that he couldn’t do it for free, that this was not LONG term but SHORT term and it would cost a 100 per hour, given the emotional, physical, emotional time he’d have to give to it. I don’t have that. I wasn’t impressed. He lost my son’s interest within the hour and my son had snowed him. It was pointless.

I’ll keep trying though. I have too. I love my son. He’s sixteen. He’s in the last stages of his brain development (providing he hasn’t blown it all to smithereens with his over usage of marijuana), and def ODD, so if there is a way for him to be “fixed” prior to the last stages of development, I’m willing to play. I’ve asserted some heavy duty boundaries here at home. If he does not comply, he’s gone. So far so good. But we all know how long that could last. That therapy session was a major eye opener. I got to see just what a manipulative little shit he can be….all the traits are there, Oxy, lying, manipulating, blaming, projecting, and the big one PITY PLAY. Clear as crystal!

I almost had to let my sex offending son go. But because of his psych eval that showed him to be ABSENT of personality disorders and only with GAD and situational depression, I was willing to take the gamble. Had it NOT been for that outcome, i would have signed off my parental rights. The treatment providers felt he was an EXCELLENT candidate for recovery because of his HIGH EMPATHY traits. ANd sure enough, all along through treatment and now out, he has proven himself to be not only recovered, but AWARE of things that could trigger him, and he’s made major contributions to the community with his well being. Seven more months and he can petition the judge for release of registration. It is rare when this is an option, but after receiving the psych eval, she decided that he was worth taking the risk.

Having said that Ox, if this one doesn’t pan out…..I’m signing OFF my parental rights.

I see my blonde haired little boy. So funny, so wonderful, I have a picture of him next to my bed. I love my son very very much……and the precious memories I have of him as a little guy mean more now than ever and if that’s all that I get now, I’ll live with it. I’ve been through worse. It can’t GET any worse, ya know?

I’ve been studying about genetics and psychopaths. His father is one.

If he is, he is. I will cry my eyes out as now I AM seeking a full psych evaluation.

I’m prepared for the outcome. It will give me an idea as to what I’m looking at.

Three things here, Ox. Lack of empathy. Lack of guilt and remorse.

They are all evident in Junior.

Depending upon the psych eval, is the choices I will have to make.

ANd I’m willing to make them.

(((((((((((((( oxy )))))))))))))))))))))))


Ox Drover

Dear LL<

A few months after my son killed the girl, I got a job at a psych hospital. There was a shortage of nurses, and I actually didn't want a job but the director of nurses was a friend of mine and kept calling me begging me to come to work….any hours I wanted and good pay, so I did.

I started doing intake evals—I had never worked psych before but had some little experience in the psych parts of rehabilitation for spinal cord injury….so I listened to these people tell me about their child—who was as BAD OR WORSE THAN MINE who was in prison for murder. After the intake eval where Ihad to sit and listen empathetically and be "professional" I would go into the bathroom and cry my eyes out.l

Then I started working some as evening supervisor of nurses, then filling in for nurses who called in, and working directly with the kids themselves…..and by the time I had been there ja year and a half I almost got killed by a kid, and decided it was time for me to find a job that was less dangerous than dealing with 6 ft tall 210 pound out of control boys—ODD, BPDs etc….some who should have been in jail but because their insurance BIOPSY was POSITIVE and their insurance would pay they went to a psych unit instead of jail.

It was a healing job for me, LL. I actually believe that God had given me jobs that helped me cope with my own problems and situations. My husband's youngest son was a severe head injury and afterward functioned at the level of a severely retarded child. Because I had worked with so many young people just like him, I understood somewhat of what was going on with him. Three years later he was killed in a car wreck. Those were 3 DIFFICULT years trying to cope with his injury. Without that experience professionally I am not sure how we would have coped. Ditto when my beloved mother in law had some strokes and started to hate me, I coped because I knew it was her injured brain not HER that hated me.

Coping with P son was helped by the experience I had at the time in the psych hospital with the kids, but it is only now, years later that that THERAPY THERE has helped me so sometimes it takes a good long while for the therapy to "sink in" and see some results of it.

I hope you are able to get through to your son, but I don't have a lot of "hope" that you can. Being prepared to let go is difficult, I understand that….but in retrospect, it was an option I never even considered when he was 17, and I should have. But, better late than never. I pray that if it comes to that that you can find PEACE by knowing that some things just aren't going to come out the way we want them to. THEY have CHOICES just like we do.

lesson learned


I was prepared to let son number one go if I had too.

He is doing well, healthy and happy. I’m glad they did the psych eval, not once, but twice. Thoroughly. They don’t mess around with sex offenders. They saw right through the bullshit.

I’ve lived enough garbage in my life that I dont’ want to be bullshitted either. Just give it to me straight.

I won’t lie, Ox. It will be painful. Do I have hope? Sure I do, just like I did for son number one. It’s my child. I’m responsible for these children. And whatever is leashed upon society as a result.

But I’m no longer naive either.

If I have to let him go, I WILL let him go.

But it will hurt like absolute living hell.

IT will HURT like absolute living hell.

But I cannot be okay harboring a potential fugitive either, one that would go on to hurt others.

I know enough, that my children know right from wrong. They choose. I remember when I threw son One into therapy, even before it was court ordered or charges were filed. I’ll never forget the therapist he had, and the overwhelming guilt, trauma and sadness I felt at my son’s actions while he sat there and BLAMED ME for his acting out. “You’re Mom didn’t do SHIT to you, J. YOU DID IT! YOU ACTED OUT. YOU MADE THE CHOICE! DID YOUR MOM TEACH YOU RIGHT FROM WRONG?
“Yes”, he said,

“Then who the fucks fault IS THIS? IT”S YOURS, NOT HERS”

Then he looked at me and said, “LL, are your other kids sex offenders?” he asked, “No”, I said”.

“That’s right. Because you taught them right from wrong, don’t let this guy bullshit you into believing that HIS behavior is YOUR fault, if it was, ALL of your kids would be “sex offenders”.

Five out of six ain’t bad, ox, given the genetics. And the poor raising on my part.

I WILL let him go if I have too.

Just as I was son number one.



I was at work Saturday. My coworker said her “ex” (been separated for five years!!!) and her were arguing and she said this: “he kicked the coffee out of my hand and then he choked me” I lept out of my chair! I gave her this website info and told her she could post not using her real name and gave her my screen name. Of course she knows my real name cause we work together.

I have not seen her post yet and I don’t have her phone number. I get a sense of dread that she has not posted yet…I’ll see her next Saturday and I don’t want to be too pushy but Geeezzz I’m worried. Any suggestions on how to get her here without being a nag about it. I’m scared for her. Thanks.

Ox Drover

Dear Ana,

Well, you can BE sort of a nag….in a nice way….just tell her you are CONCERNED about her welfare that you are aware that the statistics are that men who are violent have a tendency to ramp up the violence as the woman start to regain her control (This is not trying to be sexist as violent women are that way too, but HER situation is HIS violence so just focus on her for now) Just focus on her being able to LEARN about how to deal with this by reading here. Be supportive and nag a bit but in a “concerned” way. Good luck. AND keep in mind that 85% of the victims don’t get it, so if she doesn’t get it right away just BE THERE for her in a non-judgmental way….believe me I fought the TRUTH for decades…even after I knew what my P son was.

Waiting for someone else to “get it” is frustrating I know—because WE have “gotten it” FINALLY we want everyone else to immediately get it and it doesn’t work that way. Having patience with others being slow to get it is something we must LEARN….and be patient with ourselves as well. (((hugs)))


Thank you Oxy. I will do as you advise here. I’ve never heard anyone say that before, I’ve read it here, but never actually heard it spoken. It was shocking!


Ana – Question – If someone told me to dive off a high cliff into a shallow pool to escape the beast pursuing me would I do it?

Answer probably not. Why? Because every fibre in my body would be screaming ‘NO don’t jump the fall will kill me’.

Same thing for your friend. She will be afraid to jump, to take the plunge.

Careful coaxing and TIME may be your best course of action.

Although you are screaming JUMP she CAN’T, she’s afraid of the unknown. So be patient. Hope this helps in some way.


she is in a position just like we have all been: she doesn’t like it, but she doesn’t think it’s dangerous either because, after all, he is just a jerk, not a serial killer – right? What she would like is control and a way to get the upper hand. Tell her you know just the books she can read to “get it” and “win” against her ex.

But she won’t be receptive to anything about psychopaths, just like I was not receptive to “evil” when, at age 17, I read “people of the lie” by dr. scott peck. But the book, “why is it always about you?” allowed me to understand the profile of the narcissist and opened me to the truth before I had a chance to go into denial.

Buy her the book.


Thanks for the input. I appreciate it. Yes, I think you are correct in that the WAY she said it so calm and in front of me and another woman. Her eyes popped open too. I think my friend is used to dealing with IT.

Yes, I will be very patient and careful not to push her. Like Oxy said just be there for her and you stated give her time. I do hope it sinks in for her sake.


Thanks Skylar,
I WILL get it for her. She may be afraid to blog cause he sneaks into her house and looks at what she’s been looking at on the computer. I’m almost afraid to get her phone number cause he’s probably monitoring that as well and I don’t want him to have my phone number. UGH


Ana – please take GREAT care not to compromise your own safety (and sanity).

I know I wanted to be like Superwoman and save spath’s next victim but I couldn’t and I had to ‘walk away’. It nearly cost me very dearly.

You are probably right about the phone monitoring. Take care.


LL I just read your post about the gun & after sex. Holy shit. That is not normal. Not at all. I’m so glad you’re free!

lesson learned


Yea, it was SCARY for sure. Lots of things that I pushed away that were abnormal are now infiltrating my conscious mind.

I stayed way too long and put up with way too much shit.



LL, Im just glad your still ALIVE!! WTF!! You just got out in time! I also escaped a violent alcoholic. I was badly bashed, and a friend looked after me, but i unwisely went back,{emotional blackmail from 3 spaths, my ex and both teenage daughters.} Took me another 2 years to FINALLY make the break, for real this time, and I didnt take the girls,-they didnt want to come anyway, they took their Dads side. They were 17 and 19 at the time, not babies.
Il tell you all about it sometime!
Just glad your safe!!
Love, GemXX{{{HUGS!!}}}

lesson learned

Mama Gem,

He had never pulled a gun on me before. Ever. He talked about guns on occasion and I knew he knew how to use one, but he never pulled it out on me like that..
Overall, he’s a coward, but at the time, I felt intense fear. It was an intimidation tactic as it was toward the end of the relationship and he was becoming increasingly demanding and abusive.

But that question in my mind lingers, had I stayed, would he have used it?

I didn’t want to wait to find out!



To anyone on this site who thinks because he has not hit you or made a mark on you that he is not capable of it please understand the following –

VIOLENCE that ends in someone being dead is usually HIGHLY PREDICTABLE.

Everyone thinks they could not have seen it coming. IF you known what the progression from charming new guy to the guy who murdered his wife/child/girlfriend/relative/girlfriends’ relative/neighbor … (you get the picture) it is actually very easy to see.

1) Charms you. Either is a braggart or tells you a tale of woe is me and you are the best only greatest etc….

2) Starts to find little things about you not right – criticisms of small things.

3) Displays violence towards others – punches holes in walls, intimidates people while driving aggressively, throws things to express displeasure, slams doors – all displays of aggression to let you know subtly that if you cross the line with him this too could be turned on you.

4) Verbal attacks, disparaging remarks not based in reality, picks fights to upset you – get you off center.

5) Pushes you, trips you “accidentally”, locks you in or out, takes your car keys, hides your wallet, touches you inappropriately or when you don’t want to be – ie: upsets you and then demands a kiss to prove he is in control of your body.

…. Ladies I cannot stress enough how you should google and memorize the progression – you can find it in the book I keep recommending by Lundy Bancroft (you’d think I would be getting a commission on that thing but boy is it an eye opener.) “Angry Controlling Men…”

Anyone who says – he never touched me, he didn’t do this or that – well if he has done any of the above and you have stayed he knows he can up the ante and go further – he is TRAINING YOU to accept the threat of physical violence. He is training you to comply with his demands. When I woke up to the fact that the man I was seeing was capable of killing me I had to continue to suffer more abuse while I piece by piece moved items out of the house and set myself up to be safe. He actually attempted to take me hostage twice – once as he was being hauled to jail. Make no mistake – on that occasion had killing me been required to get himself free he would have. He also tried to scare me in the car on more than one occasion. I am ashamed I ever let there be more than one occasion but there it is – the truth is I did. Any one of those extra occasions I could have been killed. My children would have been motherless. I would not live to smell another rose, hold my childrens’ hands or kiss them as they sleep, to see a beautiful sunset, eat a terrific meal , laugh with friends or stretch in the morning in my warm soft bed, walk my dog who is obsessed with me in the healthiest of ways – you get the picture.

Stay safe ladies. DO NOT DELUDE YOURSELVES. Teach your children.

(Men – same goes for you – I know woman on make violence is under-reported. People think this is a male-female power thing – it is a power thing alright but it is about disordered personalities more than it is about any political nonsense.)

I have to edit and add one thing – I thought I understood him, knew him on such a deep level and that he loved me so that although he might be rough he would never kill me. I was absolutely wrong on all assumptions. I was stupid not perceptive, I was in love with a ghost that only existed in my mind – like a character in a film that isn’t real but he has thrown up on the screen of my mind and convinced me exists… In the end it was like stumbling from an unsettling and dark movie in a theatre into the light of day – I’m still blinking and sorting myself out years later and grateful for the light.


Well, i experienced 2,4 and of 5 the lock in his apartment for a couple of hours. And of course a few other wierd things.

I knew at that point i was with an abnormal because i started feeling fear and sadness. It’s very difficult to believe at the beginning that somebody who seemed so charming and special at the beginning was not only playing a role but hiding a total sinister personality. It’s something so incredible that i, till certain degree, understand who hasn’t experienced it can’t understand it completely, because they can’t feel it.

Ox Drover

Dear Breckgirl,

Thank you for adding to my warning article!!! There cannot be too many voices raised to underscore just how dangerous these wo/men are—you know I always think about Laci Petersen and I wonder how Scott abused her BEFORE the day he killed her. I have NO DOUBT thAt though all her family and friends thought they were the PERFECT COUPLE–that BEHIND CLOSED DOORs things were NOT SO ROSY! There were some kind of flags but whether or not Laci recognized them as what they were, I would bet the farm they were there.



After thirteen years of marriage was when I first witnessed the raging, blowing me away, being dumbfounded by it. During an argument he followed me, punching a hole in the wall. He has put his face up close to mine, his body language being very intimidating, trying to control me with threats. As long as no-one challenges him on his behavior, he is fine, just dandy. He does not want to explain himself to anyone. I never imagined that I would experience such behavior from an adult person. He goes about life, living his life on his terms, not caring about how his actions affect others. They are deceptively self-centered people. The charm covers the underlying true personality – a callous, cold-hearted user of people.

lesson learned

I think this is a really good place to share about what OTHER kinds of violence that can happen, not “just” verbal and physical (although sexual too). Mine would put his hand around my NECK during sex and SQUEEZE. One time he did this, I literally COULD NOT BREATHE…so I purposely held my breath until he let go….

This was so subtle, that at the time, I never would have thought it was ABUSE, nor would have considered this remotely “violent” when it is most prominent in my memory. It scared me. And that was BEFORE the gun incident!



dear bluejay – it is so hard to believe that someone we think we know and have spent years with can change or suddenly reveal the ugliness inside. I guess just like we do not come with instruction manuals as I tell my kids – the more dangerous characters do not come with warning tags either…

I have read that bi-polar disorder which makes people in the manic phase seem very high energy and fun can unleash itself later in life – it seems like early to mid 40’s is when untreated bi-polar can suddenly go off like a time bomb. I am sure Steve Becker or Dr. Leedom can address this since I am not a professional. What I have read is that unlike schizophrenia which I believe shows up in late adolescence or early 20’s bi-polar disorder can manifest later in life – this is not common but if a person with it grew up with fewer triggers (no family depression or stressors) or else someone was heavy into booze or drugs that can account for delayed onset of symptoms….

Oxy you mentioned Lacie Petersen – I live in the area she lived – went to school near where she was found. I always wonder what home life was like and if she was just such an upbeat positive person she put a gloss over how it was at home as she wouldn’t want to worry others. I wonder if she knew inside but did not want to admit to herself that the pretty picture she had imagined for herself was a lie. I know that is my projection but still….it is what I did – I fought knowing the truth because it wasn’t how I wanted my life to be. Accepting reality was the first step in my maturing and saving my own life and that of my children from the daily nightmare we were living and I kept excusing away – I hate to say how late that maturity came for me.

Ox Drover

I have wondered since he was arrested WHY he did what he did, I realize he is a sociopath and that is the ultimate WHY but how could everyone close to them see them as the “perfect couple”—but a couple of the books written about him show that Laci KNEW ABOUT HIS INFIDELITY, and not only with Amber Frey—one of his girl friends actually walked into the bedroom with him and Laci in bed, thinking he was SINGLE and she was going to “surprise” him….his roommates actually let her into the house so LACI KNEW at least about one of his infidelities…..and I think that like you said, Blue, she didn’t want to believe what she saw, what she knew, and she kept up this pretense of the “perfect marriage.” Well, we know if he was cheating and Laci knew it wasn’t “perfect” don’t we?

Scott and his mother both were labeled “pathological liars” and her daughter Anne Bird says that Jackie will “recreate facts” to suit herself…so Scott being a pathological liar is the apple not falling far from the tree. Jackie had 3 kids in almost as many years when she was 18-21 and gave up 2 of them for adoption, then was persuaded to keep Jackie was raised in an orphanage noted for its brutality and sexual and physical as well as emotional abuse from age 2 to 13, at which time she moved back to her mother’s house to care for her mother who was ill. So, she didn’t have a stable home life to start with….and Scott probably didn’t get much “mothering” from her either. So there was at least a home life devoid of loving and nurturing.

I think the signs of lack of empathy and his capability for violence were there prior to the murder—my own theory is that he actually didn’t pre-plan her murder, but they had a fight and he killed her in an outburst of rage, possibly over something that she said or did that threatened his “perfect” fantasy world….he had also created fake scholarships and fake diplomas from schools he never went to as well as the fantasy “world traveler” he portrayed to Amber Frey….

Then there is the point too that several years before Laci’s death, he had described how he would weight down a body by the head, hands and feet and throw it into the bay—Laci’s body had no head, hands or feet, indicating that she had been weighted down at those points which eventually gave way, detaching from the body, which because of gasses rose to the surface to wash ashore. So he had, I think, thought of how he would dispose of a body prior to Laci’s death…so maybe he did premeditate her death.

He sure didn’t do well at “faking” a normal behavior though of someone who was “grief stricken”—so his “mask” wasn’t all that great after all.

Which leads me to the conclusion that people who are chronic and habitual liars, fakes, show little or no empathy are capable of more violence than most people might imagine. That’s the kicker, is that “normal” people don’t assume that someone who “lies” and has little empathy is capable of what they actually ARE capable of—I never imagined my P son was capable of murder either, not until it happened. Robbery, other things? yes, murder? No!

lesson learned


I have a question about this. My ex would be “violent” as described above or as he did with the gun, but I’m still alive.

He DID NOT do this with either of his ex wives and I KNOW that for a fact.

Please don’t misunderstand me, I don’t believe that his hatred of me makes me “special” in any way…..

But why the hell did he hate me so much he would be willing to show me he would kill me?

I got the message.

But why? Why ME and not his ex’s?

I believe he hates me more than I could ever understand more than his ex’s.

But WHY?

Was I really that disposable?

He ALWAYS wanted me to feel less than the ex’s.

Was it worth me dying over for him?

He could have done it, Ox. And the only one’s who would have suspected that he did anything at all, would have been my children, which ironically, may well have kept me alive…he knew how protective they were over me and how much they HATED him…

Could that have saved my life? Why was I such a focus of this man’s hatred? He had many to hate.



I didn’t read your posts until now Oxy and LL. I had already posted on a similar topic here.

We must be on the same wave length, thinking similar thoughts right now.

to answer your question. He hates all humanity the same. You were just extra vulnerable and that makes you extra delicious to him. It’s like the difference between eating cow and eating veal. Veal seems more cruel because the animal is raised in such strict confines, that if it could speak it would ask, “why, why? why do you hate me so much?” But the cows would ask the same, they don’t want to be eaten either. (no offense Oxy, I eat meat too, but not veal) Neither you nor his wife was hated more or less, you were just very very vulnerable because of your past abuse – which he knew all about. In fact, he chose you because he knew that your spath husband was abusing you. He didn’t come in to save you, he came in to get some of that action.


LL – the thing is it is progressive – like a disease – kind of like a peeping tom progresses to an underwear thief to a rapist to a killer – it wasn’t you – it was that you met him further along in his “depraved” thinking / behavior.

The BIGGEST GIFT I could give anyone here is to make sure you know THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU – you just happen to be witness and subject to their craziness and evilness. If it had not been you it would have been someone else – they are who they are – their behavior is not a reflection of your imperfections or mistakes – your value is not assessed by how they treat(ed) you. You are a child of God and are perfect – you are not a burned dinner, unpaid bill or a badly ironed shirt or any of the other things that you been verbally beaten with.

Please get it – THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU. They don’t love you, they don’t want to waste time knowing about you or needing to care for you and make the most feeble attempts only to con you into believing they love you so you will stay with them.

The day I realized THIS IS NOT ABOUT ME – IT NEVER HAS BEEN AND IT NEVER WILL BE… was they day I gained my real freedom even though he had been out of the picture for months.

The bigger lesson I learned is that loving people will love me and cruel people will be cruel and either way I just happen to be there – so the goal is to go spend time and energy around loving people. You cannot make an unloving selfish narcissistic person become a warm nurturing loving person.

Go share your light and lives with warm loving people and heal. Find peace and know joy.


I called him to tell him I was moving and he wouldn’t know where I lived, and to have a nice life. The conversation was unnerving. “Why are you so calm?” he asked. “I’m doing well, I’ve been in therapy, no hard feelings.” “I still don’t understand why you’re so calm or why you are calling, but I am doing GREAT,” he said. He asked about my business, goals, and dreams, and said that he was “happy” to hear I was doing well.

Within 24 hours my bank account was empty – it went from 1400 to 7 within a 24 hour period. I did NOT think it was him. I sent him a text message, because he was the last person I spoke with. He called me with uncontrollable rage, telling me, “I knew this was going to happen, I knew you just wanted to ruin MY LIFE!” He continued to call and harass me, then told me over the phone, ” I am glad you can experience love and empathy, I’m glad you are not like me, because it means that you will be miserable and pathetic your whole life. And I am going to do everything in my power to make you as miserable as I can for the rest of MY life.”

I STILL didn’t think it was him. Fast forward three weeks, two restraining order hearings where he didn’t show, and every account I own in every capacity hacked, from my website to my t-mobile account. I discovered all of the classes he was attending at a community college didn’t exist. He had my roommate — an electronic musician — help him build a voice changer for a “sound design” class. He literally has been stalking me for years and only reconnected by being a voyeur on FaceBook. He read and memorized me like a book, held up a mirror to pretend to be who I was looking for, told me he had gone to treatment and he only wanted positive people in his life. He also spoke a lot about fate and instinct. I discovered through a mutual friend that these things that he told me came directly from the movie “Wanted” — starring Angelina Jolie and Morgan Freeman. His father is a CIA agent — real life, and process serving him has been the scariest and greatest pain.

All of the people he talked sh– about showed up in court as his character witnesses at our third hearing. They have criminal backgrounds and he knows they will be pulled, it’s a federal courthouse. He doesn’t care, he is parading them out like his toys. I am positive he doesn’t care if he goes to prison — his only fear is being alone and having nobody to manipulate. He doesn’t care about anything, everything is a toy and a game. He has 14 years hanging over his head for stabbing a girlfriend in the neck with scissors when he was 19, he is 33 now. He convinced the judge it was a psychotic episode caused by the drugs he was using.

He went away and came back charming, remorseful, and then began to bare his teeth about a year out.

I grew up with a pedophile psychopath. My father molested me and many others. I have dated sociopaths and other abusers.Yet I have never been more sick or scared. I have been diagnosed with acute stress disorder.

This one is going to kill me. Mutual friends believe his charm – they don’t look at the facts and the attempted suicides by his current girlfriend, they don’t look at the fact that throughout high school he was beating people and robbing them and that he worked as a mortician’s assistant all the way up to the point that he stabbed his first victim. They don’t see the emptiness in his eyes — and if they do, they think it is deepness or something to be transfixed with.

My attorney told me she thought that I should run. No joke, that is what she told me — to drop the protective order, take care of myself, and RUN. I can’t do that, he will find me.

I have friends that think I am schizophrenic, rambling about how his father is in the CIA and how I have filed reports with the internet crimes commission and am getting spoofed calls and emails. Every day a new account is hacked. Even my web server locked me out because somebody tried a series of passwords and authentication failed — Thank God.

His lies, his hate, and his rage are out of control. His parents protect and defend him and pay for fancy lawyers. He is violent, intelligent, cunning and can mimic anyone or anything.

I have considered suicide a better solution than dying at his hands, but I know better. I can’t let him win.

He is so dangerous, evil, and gorgeous all at once. I looked at him in court and all I saw was the emptiness and hatred in his eyes.

If somebody has a violent past, they most likely have a violent future. I am telling my story everywhere I can, but in the end, I am pretty sure this psychopath will find a way to kill me. All I do is cry, work on my court case and all the investigations, and pray.

Ox Drover

Dear Mysmys,

Running is an option…I have done it and there are ways to do it and to stay safe where he can’t find you…..leave no paper trail.

It won’t be easy, but you can do it….I had to run, and by not having any utilities in my name and keeping my vehicle registered/insured etc at my old address (you can also get an LLC which is kind of like a corporation but not easily traced) to register your car to….or move to a city where you don’t have to have a car….don’t let this man kill you. There are many books on the internet about how to hide in plain sight….I may still have to run again if my P-son gets out of prison, but I’ll do what I have to do to stay alive til I die…but I will NOT live in terror, but will live with CAUTION—-Knowledge is power, but take care of yourself FIRST! Don’t let him win. (((hugs))) and God bless you and keep you safe!


I am with Oxy 100% – leaving a place where you have to live on high alert for a place where eventually you can live in watchfulness but not terror or on guard would be your best choice if you count the days of your life with value and don’t want to waste them in a dance with this particular devil.

I had extenuating circumstances that kept me where I am or I too would have left silently in the night….

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