I do my best to read all of the comments on lovefraud.com because I think they are a good barometer as to what people are thinking and questioning. One recent theme/question has been the issue of the realm of jerkdom. Just what is a jerk?
Merriam-Webster’s online dictionary defines a jerk as an annoyingly stupid or foolish person b: an unlikable person ; especially one who is cruel, rude, or small-minded. But how would a psychologist approach answering this question?
Psychologists studying personality tend to fall into two categories, with members of the first category being far more numerous. The first category of psychologists is composed of trait psychologists. A trait psychologist is someone who studies personality by looking at traits. Traits are words, primarily adjectives that are used to describe people.
The dictionary says jerks are foolish, unlikeable, rude, cruel and small minded. We might take the process further and ask everyone reading this to list adjectives describing jerks. We would then find jerks and make our own determination as to whether or not the adjectives describe them.
This trait approach is similar to that used to identify sociopaths and narcissists. This process allows us to put people in a category. So with this approach, we could find traits that differentiate between jerks, narcissists an sociopaths. Most of us think of traits when we think about people and personality.
There is another way to look at people and personality that considers motives rather than traits. Although the fundamental motives of love, power and achievement exist in all people there are individual differences in the degree to which these motives rule a person.
A motive psychologist might say that a jerk is someone with too little love motivation and too much power motivation. But then that also describes a sociopath and a narcissist. Aren’t motives after all more basic than traits? If you are interacting with someone, aren’t you most interested in understanding that person’s motives as opposed to observing their traits?
Consider the following letter we received this week:
There are certain things about my daughter-in-law that I just don’t understand. I am not a psychologist so I don’t know for fact what is wrong with her.
She and my son had a rocky relationship before marriage. She was pulling him away from his best friend but was herself going to spend time with the guy after she dropped my son off at work. She played them off of each other until they just went their separate ways. It was always his best friends fault.
This is what truly hurts me….. after she married my son they lived with my husband and I. We worked long hours and came home to a mess. She and my son neither one worked but expected us to clean up after her. She would cook and I was to play maid. When this didn’t go over she belittled me. She asked to talk to me privately. There wasn’t one thing about me she liked. She told me that she was tired of fighting for my sons attention. They moved out to my relief. I took what she said to heart and didn’t contact my son for anything. I left it to him to contact me if he needed me. This hurt him even though I explained I didn’t want to come in between them.
They had a beautiful daughter and she uses her against us at every turn. We have gotten used to it and don’t let her get satisfaction from it any more. She has planted pills on the floor of my mother-in-law’s home to make it look like her home isn’t safe. She has done that scam twice. She has told my other daughter-in-law that she is only with my son because he puts up with things other men wouldn’t. She has admitted to sleeping with other men but made it out to my son that she was made to share a blanket. I am truly worried for my son and his daughter. She is such a good liar. Oh by the way she makes it out as if she is the only person capable of watching my granddaughter. At my grandma’s funeral she became angry with my son for not catching the baby before she put chalk in her mouth. but then she didn’t catch her stick a holly berry in her mouth and that was ok. She was too busy flirting with my son’s cousin who btw is working on his masters”¦
Am I a paranoid mother and grandmother that just needs to continue watching people she loves be hurt? Or is there maybe something to this behavior?
What do you think?
Oh almost forgot……wish you all a great day.
Dear Renee,
Hang in there sweetie, it took 8 miserable years of my DIL alienating my son for him to see the light, but she is OUT OF OUR LIVES NOW for over a year!!!!! Whoopie!!!! Don’t give up hope that he will “see the light.” I had to grit my teeth and “play nice” for 7 1/2 of those years at family gatherings (which were only 2-3 times a year) but I survived, and so did my son. My son’s and my relationship now is stronger and better than ever. In fact, after the divorce he moved to another state, but is coming home to live again in December, so I am really happy about that.
But even with him in another state, I’ve talked to him almost every day, and when he lived literally next door, it was months between times I talked to him, because of how much grief he got at home if he even talked to me. He was “trying to make the marriage work” even though it was terrible abuse on her part, but you know, he is MINE NOW, and I WON him back, actually, she THREW HIM AWAY, but the bottom line is that I have my son in my heart and my arms, and she is on 5 years PROBATION WITH A FELONY RECORD! God is GOOD, and “time wounds all heals.” (((hugs))) and God bless.
jere: that was hysterical. do you have any credit cards, indeed! the bastids!
Thanks I do Try to Liven up the Spirits here because ( we ) have all been taken for what we have and been Emotionally RAPED for tryin to do only what comes Natural to us all LOVE !!!!!!! LOVE Jere
Jerk or S? I wonder about my son sometimes.
My MIL thinks he’s a S and has mentioned it a couple of times over the years. She caught him stealing from her desk when he was seven, and even when confronted with the item in his pocket, and being told he was seen taking it – he still denied stealing it. He’s done this sort of thing throughout his childhood…seemingly little things. I made him return the items, or make things right, whenever possible.
My ex-husband left town when our son was five. I remember the first time I caught him stealing money from me was shortly afterward. About a year later I sent him to live with his dad and his lawyer g/f (where, unknown to me, they treated him differently from their own son). In his little six year old mind, he was abandoned by both parents.
He is far too good looking for his own good; I know that much…and he’s a slick one with the ladies. I’ve heard him lying in action.
He wouldn’t finish school, nor would he go to work. So, I put him out the door at 19. He’s going to be 25 next month and he still doesn’t have anywhere to live. He’s been couch surfing for most of the last six years. He’s the “big man” in his world of fashion, art (he is known internationally for his graffiti), and crime, but he has nothing.
He does use the poor me story. It’s not his fault – his mom threw him out, his parents divorced, and one of his g/f’s told me years ago that he had resorted to threatening suicide during one of their arguments – emotional blackmail, nice! He cheats and lies, and has a disturbing sense of entitlement I find present in most younger folks these days.
I remember one day, when he was 14, finding a garbage bag full of stolen skateboard items: $150 shoes x 3, shirts, wheel, laces…all sorts of stuff, AND a list. He had a list of items he wanted and had been crossing them off as he got them.
I took the bag, my son, and foster son, and said we were going for a walk. They didn’t know what was in the bag.
We walked to the skate shop and both boys looked a bit puzzled as we walked through the door.
I dumped the bag of booty on the counter. The color drained from the faces of both boys. The store owner began crying. She had befriended my son and had let him hang around her store.
The Police couldn’t do anything because they had to either be caught stealing, or to have stolen over $5000 worth of goods – even with a list.
I asked the officer to take the boys for a ride and scare the crap out of them, but no; the boys had “rights” and “Every kid under 16 knows this. I could lose my job if it came up later.”
I love my boy, and he’s a great artist, but I also don’t kid myself about who he is. At this point I’d like to think he has a conscience, but I’ve heard him pour on the syrup…it’s hard to say.
PB: This is one more side to the issue. What about those of us who are recovering from “romantic” relationships, who have children who also show the signs. Is there any hope?
I have a similar story. It happened in a small mountain town that had a 150-yr-old stone jail. The sheriff’s deputy was kind enough to use it for a few hours to “teach the 10-yr-old a lesson.” That happened “off the books,” and awhile ago. The deputy completely understood the point of the exercise and was very firm, but compassionate about the situation.
Did it make a difference? I don’t know.
Of all the possible “therapies” that might work, I have the best hope for neurofeedback, or “brain training.” It doesn’t work like “talk therapy,” so it doesn’t instill any new logical tricks for them to use to manipulate in new and more subtle ways. It does seem to enhance function in the judgment center and help with impulse control. I’ve also read one case study that points to development of empathy.
I don’t know. I’m so thankful I didn’t have kids with my N.
I remember though, one day, after defending his sobbing daughter from his endless ranting about something ridiculous.
She said to me, as if it were perfectly normal, “I don’t know why you get upset. Dad yells at me, I cry, then he tells me he loves me, and everything is okay. It’s how we do things.”
She actually thinks the emotional rollercoaster is normal.
But I also remember her asking out of the blue one day, “How old do you have to be to leave home?”
PB: What you should do for your 25 year old son is to buy him the “New American Standard Version” of the Bible and tell him, if he ever does anything worthwhile and good in his life is to read this book of the Bible which will show him how a man is suppose to conduct his life.
The New American Standard version is in simple English, none of the “thems:, “thos”,
“yeahs” …plain and simple English that anyone can read.
I would also tell him that his BIG ego is not only destructive to him, but to everyone he should encounter in his life.
Of course you should sign it “love mom”.
Good luck, this guy is a walking time bomb. Plus, you can entice him to read it to explain that with the knowledge in the Bible his art will be amplified to the point of being the best that he could be.
Peace.
Dear PB,
From you description I would say your son is at least a toxic N who is parasitic, if not a full blown P. Your story sounds like mine except I never sent my son away at 19, he was in jail by 17 and has not lived in my home or under my roof since then.
I too wanted to think that my son would have a conscience and I “fell for” the baited hook of repentance, but I finally FINALLY saw just how false it was. He has no conscience.
The lying when caught RED HANDED and still denying it in the face of the evidence of the theft was (looking back) the first sign I saw that my son was a P. (at age 11) Then at age 15 or so he was a FULL BLOWN psychopath manipulating family members (my mother, my step father, me, my husband, his brothers) and to one extent or another we all fell for it at least for some time.
He’s been in prison now longer than half his life and is extremely talented and bright, but totally worthless, and has no concept of his own worthlessness in the eyes of others. He sees him self as a GREAT SUCCESS and maybe in his world he is, if you call “being a convict” who breaks the rules frequently a “success.” He is continually conning some one, staff, other inmates and now again my mother.
I am done with him, NC and never want contact again with him. Have gotten out of denial and stopped deluding myself that he is ever going to be anything but what he is. It is a shame, but it is a FACT. I can now accept that fact as truth, and move on with my own life, without the toxic and malignant hope I maintained with my denial all these years, keeping myself in pain.
I think as long as we think there is hope we are anxious and in pain. I used to have a sign “I feel so much better since I gave up hope.” I gave it to another mother with a P son, but I wish I still had it. I think I will remind myself of that and make one. You know, as long as we HOPE we hurt, but when we realize that THERE IS NO HOPE, we can accept it and move on, eventually PAIN FREE. The bright and funny little boy I loved is GONE, essentially dead, and the “organ recipient” is a violent dangerous criminal that I don’t even know. Sad but true.
I used to think the roller coaster ride was normal too, but now I Know it isn’t. PEACE AND STABILITY IS WONDERFUL!!! No more euphoric highs, and no more trips into the emotional pits of hell. Calm, peace and sanity ROCK!!!
At this point my son appears to have a conscience. It’s the sense of entitlement that disturbs me the most…and it’s not just him; there are loads of young `uns who seem to feel that the world owes them.
It’s hard for me because I in no way fostered this belief in my son. He always had his age-appropriate responsibilities, and I made it fun so that it wasn’t a big deal. I told him that his allowance wasn’t for specific tasks; seeing as no one pays me to make my own bed or clean up after myself, but that his allowance was for his being agreeable when I did ask him to do something. If his room needed to be dealt with and he did it, then that is what his allowance was for.
My son spent all holidays and summer breaks with me. He even moved back to my place when he was 12.
But, when he was 14 his father kicked him out saying he wasn’t welcome in his home unless his wife wasn’t there, and “I should make you do a piss test; I don’t even think you’re mine”
That was when it all went to pot.
My son has been very angry ever since. The last ten years have been a rough road and I’ve had to let him find his own way. If I try to “help” him, he sees it as an opportunity to try to make me feel guilty or take it out on me, rather than an opportunity to grow or change.
I understand the six year old in him, “mom sent me away to live with someone who didn’t treat me well, my dad” – a double whammy. And then, dad says that stupid remark. I understand, but I told him that it’s his “plate” now, and he can eat it up, clear it off, or sit there and look at it – it’s his stuff to deal with. I’ve apologized for my part in whatever is on his plate, but he’s an adult now and it’s his choice to deal with his stuff or go out and party. He knows I’m here if he decides to deal with his issues but otherwise, I keep my distance.