I do my best to read all of the comments on lovefraud.com because I think they are a good barometer as to what people are thinking and questioning. One recent theme/question has been the issue of the realm of jerkdom. Just what is a jerk?
Merriam-Webster’s online dictionary defines a jerk as an annoyingly stupid or foolish person b: an unlikable person ; especially one who is cruel, rude, or small-minded. But how would a psychologist approach answering this question?
Psychologists studying personality tend to fall into two categories, with members of the first category being far more numerous. The first category of psychologists is composed of trait psychologists. A trait psychologist is someone who studies personality by looking at traits. Traits are words, primarily adjectives that are used to describe people.
The dictionary says jerks are foolish, unlikeable, rude, cruel and small minded. We might take the process further and ask everyone reading this to list adjectives describing jerks. We would then find jerks and make our own determination as to whether or not the adjectives describe them.
This trait approach is similar to that used to identify sociopaths and narcissists. This process allows us to put people in a category. So with this approach, we could find traits that differentiate between jerks, narcissists an sociopaths. Most of us think of traits when we think about people and personality.
There is another way to look at people and personality that considers motives rather than traits. Although the fundamental motives of love, power and achievement exist in all people there are individual differences in the degree to which these motives rule a person.
A motive psychologist might say that a jerk is someone with too little love motivation and too much power motivation. But then that also describes a sociopath and a narcissist. Aren’t motives after all more basic than traits? If you are interacting with someone, aren’t you most interested in understanding that person’s motives as opposed to observing their traits?
Consider the following letter we received this week:
There are certain things about my daughter-in-law that I just don’t understand. I am not a psychologist so I don’t know for fact what is wrong with her.
She and my son had a rocky relationship before marriage. She was pulling him away from his best friend but was herself going to spend time with the guy after she dropped my son off at work. She played them off of each other until they just went their separate ways. It was always his best friends fault.
This is what truly hurts me….. after she married my son they lived with my husband and I. We worked long hours and came home to a mess. She and my son neither one worked but expected us to clean up after her. She would cook and I was to play maid. When this didn’t go over she belittled me. She asked to talk to me privately. There wasn’t one thing about me she liked. She told me that she was tired of fighting for my sons attention. They moved out to my relief. I took what she said to heart and didn’t contact my son for anything. I left it to him to contact me if he needed me. This hurt him even though I explained I didn’t want to come in between them.
They had a beautiful daughter and she uses her against us at every turn. We have gotten used to it and don’t let her get satisfaction from it any more. She has planted pills on the floor of my mother-in-law’s home to make it look like her home isn’t safe. She has done that scam twice. She has told my other daughter-in-law that she is only with my son because he puts up with things other men wouldn’t. She has admitted to sleeping with other men but made it out to my son that she was made to share a blanket. I am truly worried for my son and his daughter. She is such a good liar. Oh by the way she makes it out as if she is the only person capable of watching my granddaughter. At my grandma’s funeral she became angry with my son for not catching the baby before she put chalk in her mouth. but then she didn’t catch her stick a holly berry in her mouth and that was ok. She was too busy flirting with my son’s cousin who btw is working on his masters”¦
Am I a paranoid mother and grandmother that just needs to continue watching people she loves be hurt? Or is there maybe something to this behavior?
What do you think?
For my “two cents worth”–there are degrees of jerks just like there are degrees of violence in psychopaths.
There are the socially inept “jerks” who don’t even know they are jerks, they are just so socially unsure of themselves and do “stupid” (or, inappropriate, might be a better word) things without a lot of malice in their minds or hearts.
There are Narcissistic people who would qualify as Jerks because it is always about them, they “eat the last piece of cake knowing you haven’t had any” but they are truly upset when you point out how inconsiderate they were. They didn’t do it to piss you off, it just never occured to them that they weren’t entitled to what they wanted when they wanted it without any advance consideration for your “piece of cake.”
Their “crimes” are minor compared to a psychopaths’ and do less damage and their intentions aren’t to harm you, just to get what they want.
Of course there are all kinds of “levels” in between extremes.
The main difference between a jerk and a narcissist/sociopath, is that a jerk has empathy. I think the actions between all three could be exactly the same. A person can have empathy and still be cruel, that is the jerk.
It’s hard to tell if someone has empathy. Ns and Ps have learned the social cues on how to behave in certain situations that require empathy. Usually a person doesn’t find out the lack of empathy until the mask slips. The S/N mask slipping is terrifying, and there is no mistake that you are staring at a non-empathetic person when it slips. Waiting for the mask to slip, is probably the worst way to find out if they have empathy.
There are a few cues on if you are dealing with a N/S before their mask slips. The biggest one I experienced was the pity play. Do they manipulate your empathy with a sob story? Do they cry at socially strange times? Then you are dealing with a N/S. Also, another experience I had was the dichotomies. He would tell me I am a goddess while at the same time telling me I stunk and had a big butt. The criticisms were unbelievable while at the same time convincing me he found me so special. He would tell me one thing and do another.
Once you decide they are a N or S, the difference between a sociopath and narcisist is small. If they end up in prison, you can be sure they are a sociopath. That is because the sociopath is more impulsive and will act on a crime faster then a narcissist. Narcissists are typically not criminals. Another difference is narcissistic supply. A narcissist is like a drug addict searching for the attention of others. Where the normal population is satisfied with their loved ones and a small group of friends, a narcissist wants to know the world and strives for it. The narcissist is always on the phone, texting, and emailing. And like a drug addict, they are never satisfied with the amount of people in their life. Sociopaths don’t show the need for supply as much. Sociopaths are also more deceitful and aggresive (portions taken from malignant self love by sam vaknin). Also what OxD wrote, a sociopath will harm you because it is their intention. Narcissists harm you because they are trying to get more narcissist supply. Whether you get hurt or not is of little concern to them.
Regarding the daughter-in-law in question. If it weren’t for the pill scam, I would call her a narcissist hands down. She is always trying to get the narcissistic supply of men, and it doesn’t seem to be her intention to hurt the son. This is narcissistic. But the deceit of the pill scam, brings her closer to a sociopath. With the scam we have to look at her intention. Is it her intention to hurt the mother in law? Or is it her intention to secure supply from her daughter? Given the grand daughter being involved in the pill scam, and it seems like the daughter in law is trying to secure her supply, I would bet the daughter-in-law is a narcissist.
VEry good insight, Bird, and well stated too. I think the DIL is more on the P side than the N side of the scale if N is on the left and p on the right and as you go from N to P the progression gets worse, but keep in mind, all Ps are Ns, but not all Ns are Ps.
I just want you to know how very very very much I admire the strength you have shown throughout your encounter with the P and surviving having a baby without a father, while you yourself were hurting so. You are a “gold star” woman, Bird! and I am also very glad that Birdie has you for a mom, a smart cookie, to protect him from the Buzzard! ((((hugs)))))
Bird: My first rollercoaster ride was a full fledged N. He was about 4 years younger than I at the time of my divorce. I was 28, he just turned 24. It was a big difference in age back then … I thinking I was almost 30 and him couldn’t believe he wasn’t 20 anymore.
His mom and dad came over to this country. Both parents couldn’t speak English. Dad did odd jobs in his sister’s store, learned English along the way … just to get by, mom was a stay at home housewife/mother … didn’t get out … learned English from her children as they grew up.
So that’s the description of this family’s story.
My “N”‘s father cheated on his mom all the time … there’s the dynamics happening right in the household … mom moping around for weeks, while dad was off gallavanting with the new OW …. so sunny boy (my ex boyfriend, her son) becomes the doting son … all her attention was focused on her son, the only son she gave her husband (he had 3 sisters) … his mom, during those dark days of depression when he husband was off with the OW, crying her eyes out, doting on her only son … started the Narcissism in him at the age of 3 or 4. Here, daddy’s gone, mommy dotes on sunny boy … then Daddy comes back, mom’s all happy again, sonny boy is thrown onto the back burner … starts acting out to get attention, good or bad attention, did not matter at the time, you’re 5 or 6 …
What the kid learned at an early age.
No matter what Dad did to mom, she’d cry while he was gone … mope around … dote on her only son … throw the kid over when her husband came back … mommy always took daddy back, no matter what he did.
Sonny boy is only special when daddy’s bad and gone out of the house with another.
Sonny boy is always put on the back burner when daddy’s back home for a few months.
And, you wonder why this kid is a full fledged Narcissists as he grew up …
I send him peace, just as all of you should send your EX peace … we don’t know the entire story how all of them grew up and what horros they endured while trying to do so …
Oh, did I mention daddy beat sonny boy every time he came home … fighting over the turf of the family and who would be by mom’s side … Da ya think the kid turned off his emotions at an early age cause of this?
Peace.
Wini
My (it) His mother was a (dancer) AAAAAaaa you know what kind of dancer , she’s on #8 or#9 husband My (it) said she you to pay him to be good ! His Birth father died that first year we lived together . (it ) showed a little bit of emotion ,he rembered going fishing w/dad but it sounded like maybe one time. His mother said his dad was a shit
So I to sypathize but It doesn’t matter what you grew up w/ they could have choosen to better them selves but they choose the other direction . Each of us has that choice and lives w/the cosequences of that choice . I’m acctually fine w/(it) liveing in prision (it) will be w/it’s own kind !
LOVE jere
Indigoblue: Easier said than done. My parents were good to us kids … my mom wore the same RED car coat for years … as the four of her children were growing up. I remember in H.S. her buying a new winter coat … it was royal blue … and I said, “mom, that’s a nice coat, but the color … well, I’m used to seeing you in the RED coat … then it dawned on me while the words were coming out of my mouth … how much my mom gave up for all of us kids to have, and she went without.
I can’t imagine having a horror story childhood placed on me by my parents/caretakers …
That’s why God tells us NOT to judge others … cause we don’t know the entire story, we think we do, but we don’t … the theory, walk a mile in someone else’s shoes … Hence, why GOD specifically tells us to stay humble … don’t focus on what others are doing, focus on what you are doing at the moment … ONLY God knows what’s in another person’s heart when they do anything …
My Dad grew up with a horror story of his father’s drinking and irresponsibility due to that drinking. He never knew if he was coming home to good daddy or bad monster daddy because of the alcohol … my father made a conscious decision at the age of 10 to have a good life.
I think that’s the trick for anyone … coming from the conscious decision how you want to live your life …
I think that’s what we are doing on this blog … ensuring folks make a conscious decision how they want to live their lives … after our horrific experiences with our EX.
Peace.
I totally agree ! when my (its) mother said he had no friends , warnning #1 , I coul’nt believe my ears ! Here in lies that Oh (it) had never been Loved and I do Love I can Help ! see it?
I don’t pretend to know anything about (its) child hood (it) was 22 when I met him
I love You Wini I love the message you express you have made me cry , tears of Joy because your words are so True and Positive and uplifting ever listen to Zraido.com ? It is almost all I listen to music for the soul
My (it) whould mock its slogan (it) whould sing in a irritateing voice (Negative Hits)
Indigoblue: I always get in trouble for speaking TRUTH. Most people can’t or don’t want the truth to come out … that’s if they are the taker personalties (LOL). Giver’s don’t mind truth …
Peace.
Correction: First report that came across the news late last night, was misreported. It was Jennifer Hudson’s family members found murdered in their home … not Jennifer.
I’m sorry for the confusion … I was blogging someone late last night when the report came in.
Pray for her and her family. Murder of your loved ones is the most horrific type of pain to deal with … it is beyond the pain of someone you love dying a natural death. I’ve had to deal with this situation too … so it touches my heart and soul deeply, beyond anyone’s imagination.
Peace.
I just wanted to thank everyone for their insight abt my dil. I still dont know what to do if anything. I know that whatever happens I dont want my family hurt. not by me or anyone else.