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LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: An intense relationship, until he threw me back : Lovefraud.com – sociopaths, psychopaths, antisocials, con artists, bigamists

LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: An intense relationship, until he threw me back

Editor’s note: This letter was sent in by Lovefraud reader whom we’ll call “Renata.”

I know, as far as abuse stories go, this isn’t a doozy. I’m sure other women and men have gone through far worse. And that is precisely why I want to share my story, because, even though this guy isn’t a major abuser, he’s a manipulative, conniving and voracious predator.

He will believe he is using his charm and “kindness” to befriend women who are vulnerable and heartbroken, giving them something to feel good about, over and over. He will lead them down the rosy garden path, all the while knowing that he has NO intention of reciprocating a safe and loving relationship. He only uses his “victims” for entertainment value, for his own egocentric gratification. It is without a doubt one of the worst abuses of the online dating process out there, and exactly the reason so many people want to avoid this option.

I met this guy through a single parents dating network. At the time I meant to just meet local guys for something casual. I was only just starting the dating process after being single for six years, and had really very little idea of how to go about it.

We started a humorous and lighthearted exchange over the internet for a few weeks ”¦ I knew he lived hours away, so I really didn’t WANT to start anything that might eventually lead to a long distance relationship.

Intensity turned up a notch

Quite out of the blue, he turned the intensity of the communication up a notch or two. Meanwhile, it did cross my mind that his intensity was a little out of place. I had not given him any reason to ask me for pictures ”¦ or anything more than just simple back and forth joking. Suddenly he was making innuendos, asking for “more” from me than I really felt comfortable giving.

Mistakenly I thought it was because he was intensely interested in me. I know I’m not the hottest catch, and I don’t try to be, so his attention was a little odd. Somewhere in the back of my mind a little voice was crying to be heard, “This is really out of place, he has no reason to have these intense feelings for you, slow it down.” But, I still let my neediness for attention lead, and he didn’t fail to deliver, at least for a few weeks ”¦ it was a constant barrage of communication.

Meanwhile, I fell into the trap of sending pictures. At first it was innocent “selfies,” and then, as he begged for more, I started sending more than I felt comfortable with. Within three or four months, I was hooked. I was so completely head over heels with him.

Dating other women

Finally he came to visit me, we had a great time, except for the last day, when he said “I’ll just keep you a little longer, and then I’ll throw you back.”

“If that’s how you feel about me, then why wait?” was my reply.

To make a long story short, I still kept it up with him, falsely telling myself it didn’t matter to me if he dated others, because of course, he put our relationship on the back burner. I hardly ever heard from him, and when I did, it was just a few words. He hadn’t told me he was dating other women, or that he was still looking, I just KNEW, and then he confirmed it when I finally got up the nerve to talk to him and get everything out in the open.

Lies by omission

He claimed to have never misled me, which is true, his lies by omission precluded any delusions of safety.

He claimed that even though he DOES love me, he loves lots of other women too, and he should be able to have sex with whomever he wants whenever he wants, and he will never ever want to be in a committed relationship or marriage. I know that he had a few of those in the past, though, women that he moved in with, and I believe he did that because they were financially well off. But I believe that he still kept up his polyandrous flings while with them, which is why they all ended as disasters.

Ugh, I feel like I just made a fool of myself with this guy. And I need to get him behind me, but first, I need to warn other women about him.


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just keep trying onejoy, that’s all we can do, if you give up then you have lost and the narc has won.

As for love, I will say this, I don’t fully believe in “unconditional love” as demands/expectations need met, if one fails to meet them, the other person will fall out of love. Be it their sex life, provision financially, emotional support ect ect…if you fail to meet these, the one whom loves you will eventually leave you to find someone who will meet them, thus love is conditional upon the fact that your doing things that make the person happy in other words meeting their conditions. And I am fine with this provided that person is meeting my conditions as well, that is what a loving relationship does, is meet each others conditions, and sometimes a little sacrifice to make another happy provided you know they will do that for you too.

I am paranoid as well, im afraid ill meet some woman and she will see im vulnerable and take advantage of the fact I have a good heart and im loyal to a tee in a serious relationship, I effing hate cheaters with a passion, ive always told women ive been with, hey if you feel the need to sleep with someone else, or someone else seems more appealing then me,,please tell me, and break it off with me, don’t stay with me while messing with them. When you are in love that is the ultimate betrayal to find out your lover gave themselves sexually to another, only to come home to you like nothing happened.

No relationship is perfect and I can cope with that, but the things all of us went through in ours, are beyond the scope of normal, its twilight zone shit!!! Nobody is going to agree on everything, I can handle this, hell its healthy to have a little argument once in a blue moon, but constant fighting, yelling, screaming, things being broken, putting hands on one another, I cannot tolerate yet I did for almost 10 years, never in my life have I been with a woman where we yelled and called each other disgusting names, or grabbed/pushed/each other/broke things ect ect…I knew it wasn’t me, however I was weak and failed to control myself, I believe I actually let her turn part of me into her. I don’t want to yell at my wife and call her a B,,or a C,,yet I did this to this one because she would constantly tell me im a loser/pos/pathetic/disappointment, or would sneak around talking to other men, lie about money, and always blame me, thus I turned into her, and started yelling and calling names, im now disappointed in myself for this, as ive never wished to act like that towards a woman, I was raised better than that. Thank God somehow, someway I managed to never hit her, I know no matter what she did to anger me, had I hit her, I would have never forgave myself, and one too many times I had to leave or hit something in the house to keep from doing it while she sat there and taunted me further, even sometimes saying “cmon MFer hit me,,,hit me MFer you know you want to, you know you want to kill me,,cmon MFer”

She even said a few months ago “eff you david your a bitch”

Do any of you here know what its like for a woman to call a man a bitch? lol


I’m totally in agreement with you, we’ve all been hurt, so hurt, but, we have to keep moving on, this is our life, not theirs…they don’t get to defeat you.
Is there honestly something about you or me or any of us that makes us any less than any other?
No, there isn’t.
You are just as deserving as anyone to have love and respect and the right to be treated with kindness.
I would like to soothe your feelings of shame for falling into your sociopath s.o. sick head games…but you have to learn from the pain of shame as well as the pain of the hurt they inflicted on you to get you there.
When you own your feelings you can start somewhere to recover them, and enforce your space of peace and harmony.


well said bodicasway.

none of us are control freaks, but we do have to take control of our situations in order to move on. I am still in love , however this time seems different, now that ive educated myself with what/who im dealing with, im starting to notice now a numbness in me that I didn’t have before while separated from her. And I think that numbness is coming from the fact that I now know who and what she is and it isn’t me and it will never be better, it still hurts like hell, but the last few days at times I feel numb to my feelings towards her, and it is helping. I pray at night and morning for the strength to endure another day and make wise decisions, and for the safety of my 2 kids up there with this maniac. I can only hope one day that I get my shit straight and can somehow take custody before too much damage is done to my kids, they are 8 and 5, its still my responsibility to help shape and mold them, once they are grown and out of the nest its their problem, but right now its mine, but I have to get myself right before I can help make others right.

I know if this happens she will claim im a poor excuse for a father, I neglect my kids ect ect…but right now I cant focus on spending every moment with my kids, I have to do me so later I can do my kids. This sucks ass badly!!!!

I need a ghostbusters sign on my car without the ghost that says spath,,,LOL.


Thats hilarious!
Keep making that day to day decision, it all adds up in the end. I wish I could give you some kind of advice on how to not appear to be an absentee father in this, maybe just don’t stop trying to communicate with the kids and keep a record of your efforts.
Anyone else out there have advice in this?


oh I call often to speak with them right before bed, but im a 100 miles away and with my car on the verge of breakdown, and being broke I simply cannot go get them but MAYBE once a month if even that, once my car is fixed and I have some income then yes once a month or every other weekend will work.

They are just so used to me being there, I was there for both C sections, being the first to hold each child (other than the nurse that cleaned them off) my daughter is particularly attached as ive spent more time with her than my son. They were gone for the weekend when she kicked me out, so they came home only to find me gone. But if I have no money or car, I cannot see them, so I need to fix me, fix my car, have money, so then I can spend time with them.


u know, i would log ur calls. i would get a return receipt for any cards u sent or gifts. i would call every nite if she lets u. simply ask for the kids and dont take any bait from her to “talk” b4 the kids get on the phn.
i would get 3 jobs if i had to walk to them so i got income quickly and start sending her checks, weekly, very consistently, help with back to school clothes, music lessons, etc.
these are all the things i use against the spath wenever he gets a whim to try any shyt with me. he called the cops on me once, well im not sure he actually did, but he said he had sooooo…now HE WILL NEVER DO THAT AGAIN. i may be scared shitless he could kidnap the kids any day w/his psycho family’s help but i will never let him know that lol. i call his bluff. hes nothing but a pathetic blob of inhuman tissue.
he calls only wen he misses them or some family member rides his ass hard enough about calling and he wants something from sed family member…every few months lol
i never even know what state he’s living in. i always pray he has found a new “shiny” to play with, then i pray God forgive me for asking for another woman to get F-d in the head. i wish he’d have more kids–more shinys, PLS GOD…then I think wat an awful thing to wish on a poor child.
he never has sent a gift to the girls or a dime in support since he left almost 3 yrs ago.
he has even at least called on christmas, thanksgiving or their birthdays only very inconsistently.
he doesnt care about them. its all ABOUT HIM. thats a SPATH. the world is HIM.
i wish i could tape the calls to show he doesnt even know wat to say to them. i havent quite got that far yet. (i was keeping txts tho…that mite be an excellent ides to show how psycho she is wen its just u 2 and WATCH WAT YOU SAY OR TXT OR EMAIL HER, always be civil if not polite and take NO BAIT to fight)
after 30-90 sec, he’s always like, ok, lemme talk to ur mom now. and then im like wat? if he’s starts bitching or complaining at me, im like do u have anything u need to tell me cuz i dont care to hear u whine. then he gets pissy and he’s done or i hang up as i’m not talked to that way, thank yo u very much. YAY i win, goodbye spath.
so just try to document ur trying to be as best a dad u can, so in court, u look WONDERFUL (and actually be trying, be WORKING doing SUMthing, etc). dont try to show how crazy she is or how bad she is. let her hang herself. my crazy-ex ties the rope around his own neck in court. i just sit silent. maybe urs wont be as obliging, many spaths are good liars and actors. so document and be civil.


Dear aint: I was not able to reply directly to your post. But sounds like you are on the right track. Please be kind to yourself and celebrate the small victories. I struggle with food addiction myself.

I’m sitting here drinking a vile concoction of pear celery kale lime parsley juice. It’s part of a 3-day detox diet. A year ago I never thought I’d have the discipline to do something like this. It’s very hard. As my body and mind are clearing out, old repressed emotions are coming up, which is the reason I eat crap in the first place. I’m an emotional eater – it’s my drug of choice. I still struggle with it, but I’m at least aware of the connection, which is a small victory for me. Yesterday was the second day of my cleanse. I was at work and there were cookies. I couldn’t resist having a bunch of them – right in the middle of my cleanse. Oh well, today is another day. About an hour after I ate the cookies, my sinuses clogged up and I felt tired. It was good to see the direct relationship between my health and what I put in my body. My energy is back and my sinuses are clear this morning. But I’m feeling a lot of anger. This is difficult for me. I’m craving all kinds of crap to eat. But I don’t keep crap in the house anymore, and I’m not at work today. So I can do it.

You keep up the good work, too.


oh Stargazer if u could get ur bld sugar balanced, u wudnt rly want eat those cookies, let alone eat them! i can watch someone eat watever it is that’s my favorite treat and I Won’t Want It. rly. once im physiologically balanced. its not a food addiction, its a physical issue. those cravings are physical, not mental. u dont have to be diagnosed a diabetic to have bld sugar issues. ur cells arent getting the glucose becuz ur insulin resistant and have a metabolism thats not so status quo — so ur stinkin starvin even tho u eat and eat. add any other hormone problem…thryoid, adrenals, etc and yeah they like to travel in pairs and groups, and uve got a body that is sooo messed up and then u beat urself up for no willpower. willpower is wen u starve urself. its stupid. wen u eat correctly, u need no willpower, u will not eat too much and calories arent the problem anyway. my rule of thumb is if i want bad carbs or too much of the good carbs, im doing something wrong the last meal or three, getting my body out of whack.
wen im balanced, i can eat just one cookie and BE HAPPY about it. sounds remarkable huh? like this is how metabolism-typical ppl live! lucky them. stinks for us, but its just life. its a genetic thing, cant change it, just can work around it so we’re happy. i recommend highly D. Kress’s bk, Metabolism Miracle–your library prob has a copy. Ive studied this whole aspect of health for several decades now and she’s not perfect in her bk (she’s anti-fat, which is just silly) but she’s fine-tuned what all i’ve found over the yrs as far as scientifically –ive taken quite a few science college courses in human A&P and someday may even get my degree lol.
i know ur pain in this area. it DOES HELP to have this area taken care of; daily u have to be aware of ur choices, not just food, but activity and stress levels, but its not hard. then u have the literal energy to heal mentally.
of course u cant change some of the stress in ur life, like wat ur recovering from. but u *can* not let ANYTHING ELSE in to stress u rite now. it affects u physiologically, like the stressed fascia in ur shoulder causing the pain in ur hip. some medical/science ppl dont believe it, but as a LMT u KNOW its true as u relieve ur clt’s pain.


Dear aint, thanks for the info. I’ll ask about this when I get my physical this month. At my last physical, my blood levels were all excellent, and I had the physical health of someone much younger than my age. I know sugar addiction can be hormonal. I’m just starting my period, and I always crave chocolate around then (I’m 53 and still get periods). I am also premenopausal so this may have something to do with it. But I know the food cravings are also emotional.

The thing you said that stands out in my mind is about being full but still feeling like your starving. This happens to me a lot. It happened yesterday. My stomach was full. But I felt like I was starving. I often feel hungry on the paleo diet that I follow. Maybe I will have my blood sugar tested.


ur eating pears on the paleo diet?
and if ur hungry on the paleo diet–are u eating enough fat?
the reason u get hungry most likely is that when u eat, the glucose cant get INto ur most cells to make energy, it goes str8 into ur fat cells, hence fat increases which puts out estrogen which increases ur insulin resistance (its a happy lil cycle NOT). ur brain cells prefer glucose so they scream at u to eat sugary things or too much good carbs. they will chill in a few days tho and make glucose from protein or fat thru gluconeogenesis. thats why ppl can go on those NO carb diets and not become brain dead lol. the brain doesnt want to do this unless its absolutely forced to.
see wat im saying? its not a food addiction or willpower. its simple physiology.
now i too, get extremely hungry around my period. i just am, now matter how balanced i am those days b4. there are other hormones like leptin and ghrelin that affect appetite. i think the hormones that tell the uterus to shed affect these also. and in me, already so delicately holding it together lol, it pushes me over the edge. we’ll see in a few yrs wen im menopausal. i think alot of women have this, not just me. i prefer chocolate a few days b4 my period comes, wen im eating wrong, but when im eating well for my needs, i am extremely hungry for anything, real food mmmmfoodmmmm Me Want Food!
one test at the drs isnt conclusive tho. there are many reasons why ur sugar could be high (ie physical pain) or even low (ie reactive hypoglycemia). some drs dont use the newer numbers yet…anything over 100 for fasting is not good. member how they changed the bp numbers and the cholesterol numbers?
just try eating differently. that’s the real test. get that book for alot of help–& nope i have no financial interest in her book!


Aint: The juice of one pear is on the detox diet. I believe you can have any kind of fruit on the paleo diet (not sure about bananas). I could be wrong. I modify it a bit. I eat sweet potatoes, bananas, beans, and a few other things. Occasionally I have brown rice or use rice flour. I also cheat about 15% of the time. They want you to occasionally spike your insulin levels so you don’t go into ketosis (where your body thinks you’re starving and starts storing fat). I don’t follow the diet religiously, but I stick to it most of the time. The hardest times are the 3 days a week I’m in the office because of all the temptations. It’s rare for me to crave stuff if I don’t see it, smell it, or hear about it. It’s nearly impossible for me to avoid chocolate when I’m premenstrual, but I will only eat it if it’s right in front of me. The rest is just habit. Once I have one bite, I want the whole bag. If I can avoid the first bite, I’m good.I hope some day not to work in an office anymore so I won’t be constantly tempted. Granted, some days there is no temptation at all.

I originally started a gluten-free diet when I read Breaking the Vicious Cycle by Elaine Gotschall. This book is about intestinal health, and there is a direct correlation – as you would expect – between what you eat and your intestinal health. They also link the bad bacteria from eating refined sugar and processed foods to autism, schizophrenia, and a host of other conditions. So I originally cut out starches for promoting intestinal health. The weight loss part is an added bonus. I use almond flour when I need flour and olive oil instead of butter. But I will go out once a week and have something like chicken Parmesan with all the cheese, breading and sauce. But then I’ll substitute a vegetable for the pasta and skip the bread. Once in a while, though, I will savor the bread if it’s really good.

The problem with breads and pastas, besides the weight-gaining aspect is that they are all brominated these days. Bromine is toxic to the body and is linked with cancer because it contributes to iodine deficiency. I think, however, that as long as you don’t have a wheat allergy, there’s nothing wrong with enjoying bread or pasta once in a while. I pick and choose my poisons. I think I’ve had pasta once in two years. And then it was rice noodles. I also dance and go to the gym a lot.

When I started the new diet and regular exercise, I went from a size 8/10 down to a 4, and I seem to be holding there. For some reason, this holiday season, it felt like a struggle. I was fine the last two years.

Thanks again for the info. I will see if I can check that book out of the library.


if u have trouble with gluten even in whole, intact grains like brown rice (yes ik thats gluten free lol) or hulled oats groats or barley, then after ur healed, try reintroducing them BUT soak them first, similar to soaking beans prior to cooking. its a traditional way of eating that worked for thousands of yrs. simply add a tablespoon of plain yogurt to each cup of water u need with ur grain. soak on the counter for 12-24 hrs. this releases all the nutrients u wudnt get, but more importantly destroys alot of the anti nutrients, like phytates. u can do this with flour too but i’d stick to intact grains if u have problems with sugar cravings.
of course the paleo diet severely limits ur grains but if u ever go off that try soaking. Nourishing Traditions is an excellent book on this whole way of eating; Sally Fallon is the author. revolutionary book applying the work of researcher from the 1920s, Weston A Price.
healing the psyche is hard work and we deserve the best fuel-medicine we can give our body so our mind can get better! i think u’d like this book and its a good “the other side of the story” re: fats in Metab Miracle.


i was a size 5 in high school. i am not a big person, almost petite-framed. wish i cud get down to an 8 lol.
i wud have more self-confidence for sure! altho i think i need to listen to other ppl once in a while when they say RUN. my one friend wud rly like to SLAP the bpd very hard. a few times. still. shes not getting over it lol
i gotta learn self-RESPECT. and not to push my boundaries (stems from the respect thing), cuz i got the rest of my life. i keep telling myself that. the REST OF MY LIFE. get well now, hélène.

LADIES- JERK ALERT: If you run across 8999John on Evow.com or any other online dating site BEWARE! I recently dated John J Thomas who described himself on the site: “DIVORCED”, “I am very loyal and have never cheated”I am looking for a LTR hopefully with a Christian woman or someone who is interested in investigating a Christian life” I am not perfect and do not expect you to be perfect. I am not the jealous type. I trust that we are faithful to each other.” Sounds like what every woman is looking for doesn’t it? Unfortunately, he dishonors his Marine background and he mocks his Christian ethics (especially since he is a retired minister) because he is not truthful. He told me he had been divorced for two years.
We had a whirlwind relationship, he proposed and we had planned a wedding for November, 2013 at his church in Sun City, AZ. He had told me on our 1st date I was free to do a background check (which I did and he was not a criminal or had financial instability), he said he had no secrets and I could look at look at anything in his house. During a family emergency *SEE BELOW in late September I was looking for next of kin I came across his UNSIGNED divorce papers dated 7/13/2013, which I must not have put back exactly as I found them because before I had a chance to ask him about his still being married he picked a fight and broke the engagement and told me to leave, which I did. It would have been difficult to do since he was still MARRIED ! At least he saved me from marrying a bigamist. I will never know for sure what other lies he told me.
On Sept 16, 2013 he texted me that the “WORST” had happened and that both grandchildren ( his daughter’s) had died in a car crash in Grenoble, France and that he was en-route to handle the details. 4 days later he returned bereft… Pastor Neil even came and prayed with him over his LOSS. I thought I would give him a bit of time to grieve before I asked about the divorce papers. Before I did he picked a fight and broke our engagement.
I posted the break up on Facebook as I had out engagement and was contacted by a women, she said she saw our engagement and break up and thought she should let me know that he was still married to her (Wife #6) thanks to Wife #6 I was able to be in contact with Wife #5 and get more info. He had told #6 the same tragic stories about his daughter dying in a car crash 3 years before. He didn’t tell her about his 2 adult grandchildren (daughter’s) that lived in England. Wife #5 had been with him for 20 years ( until 2012) and told us that he hadn’t seen either of his children since they were in their teens and that she had never heard of any grandchildren.
Wife #5 said yes he had been a Highway Patrolman but had NEVER been a Minister. A former cleric friend and Pastor of mine in WA state verified he was not listed in their synod.
He also said he had been a POW in Viet Nam and left the Marines as a high ranking officer. My retired Marine Private Investigator has been unable to verify this.

John did have many good qualities; he was very affectionate, supportive of my business, generous with loving little gifts but being truthful wasn’t one of them. Obviously, commitment wasn’t a problem for him since he was married 6 times that we know of. He found me a week after kicking out Wife #6. He was already looking for #7 a couple of weeks after our break up. Thanks to him I know what to look for in my next relationship as well as a copy of a divorce decree.
This is obviously embarrassing for me to tell but am doing it so he doesn’t “emotionally scam” some other woman! Yes, I was hurt because I trusted this man, now I am angry and don’t want any other women to go through what I did. So if someone seems to be too good be wary, if I could be taken in so might you.


Ain’t: For some reason the reply button is not showing for your posts. If not too much trouble, could you please tell me in a nutshell what that book says about fat? Fat is not a problem in the paleo diet as long as it is not saturated or coming from processed foods. BTW, I do not have a gluten allergy and I can eat as much as I want. I just gave it up for health purposes and to be at my optimal weight. I’ve never heard of the soaking for grains, though. Really good information. I wonder if that’s why this current detox diet calls for soaked raw almonds? Soaked in spring water with sea salt.

I was never more than 20 lbs overweight, but I lost in in the last few years, and my confidence level has definitely increased. It’s something to look forward to…..looking good in your clothes and feeling good about how you feel.


sat fat is GOOD fat. yeah i shudda known the paleo diet resigned u to skinless chicken breast. butter is good as is whole fat dairy. full of vit A. beta carotene & vit A are *not* the same thing. egg yolks have vit D even. sigh. the lipid hypothesis was one of the biggest food scams ever perpetrated on the american public.
metab miracle follows current politically correct nutrition advice about fat. just ignore that part of the book and eat fat. u’ll do much better and feel better. n those doritos & cakes wont hold so much sway over you…u want the fat in them! my dad wont touch eggs or whole milk or butter or real mayo/sour cream or gravy or or, but every nite hes GOTTA have ice cream, well duh…his poor bodys screaming for FAT.
yes soaked nuts & seeds are much better for u too (& yes, with them its salt, not yogurt to soak). however 99% of spring water is no better for u than tap water. buy distilled or ozonated or reverse osmosis filtered water. esp if u eat alot of nuts & seeds (theyre great for u) u’ll want to soak them as they can cause alot of GI upset otherwise. flaxseeds seem to be an exception…u can just grind them fresh in a coffee mill daily and theyre ok for the GI tract. chia seeds dont need soaking OR grinding either. (theyre an expensive althernative to flax)
so far today im doing exceptionally well and its even my birthday. of course theres no special dinner or anything so that helps, but i cudda eaten bad stuff anyway–i love to bake–and im not. a few more days of this and i’ll be seriously into getting healthy again and balancing my insulin/glucose levels. omg pls god. if i cud just succeed at SOMEthing rite now.


First of all, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!

I probably misspoke about saturated fats – I am unsure of all the terminology. They don’t want you eating stuff like Crisco oil. But olive oil and various other types of fats are allowed. I always keep the skin on chicken and eat steaks with fat on them. Eggs are allowed, too. I just don’t happen to like them. I have read that the bigger problem with fat is when it is consumed with a lot of starches, as in McDonalds, but I don’t recall the exact reason. Fats and proteins together – not problem. I try to avoid dairy just because it clogs my sinuses, but I do have a little butter from time to time. I substitute almond milk for cow’s milk. I tend to have a lot of energy and am extraordinarily healthy for a 53 year old (knock on wood). Most people can’t believe my age – they think I’m at least 10 years younger and sometimes they even guess late 30’s though that’s stretching it a bit. I have never been this healthy, even when I was younger. I keep learning about nutrition – it’s a fascinating topic. The detox is amazing.


ah yes, lovely birthday ~cough cough~ thank god the day is over, the holidays are over, i can just hurt now on a normal basis without the extra kick thrown in. it helps he did not contact me to wish me happy birthday. i thot he mite. it just gives me that one more reason to dump him out of my heart. cold cold cold cuz i wont play by his F-d up rules. so be it. one day farther on my way.
u were probably thinking of transfat. that’s bad. olive oil is monosat. polysats are bad too, ur typical veg oils. try eating eggs in smoothies, dont know theyre in there, rly. eggs are super good for u. of course u want eggs from pastured hens that eat worms and bugs…chickens are not vegetarians so those cartons proclaiming “fed a veghead diet” are simple politically correct nonsense.
raw milk, once uve healed ur immune system, mite be tolerated, even if its just in yogurt. raw milk is like rly rly rly amazing. u do realize there is very little protein in almond milk & only artificial calcium & vit D & A (if they put them in at all). that means those nutrients are hardly absorbed. nut/seed/soymilk are not true subs for milk. u have to make up for the real milk-nutrients-lack with other foods. i hope ur taking 1000mg calcium with cod liver oil daily–the expensive CLO–so ur D & A are up to good levels. u dont want ur bones cracking in ten yrs.
we’ll be in our prime then n we’ll want to dance!


Yes, transfat……and now suddenly I’m craving Doritos. I used to love those back in the day. I may try raw milk. I have a very good immune system – I just don’t tolerate dairy well. Not sure about the raw eggs – I had salmonella once or something like that and it wasn’t pretty. Thanks for the info about almond milk. No, I don’t take any supplements and don’t know if I would have the discipline to do this every day. I’m about to order some Herbalife shakes. Do you know anything about these? Good? Bad? I’m glad you had a spath-free birthday. Hoping by the time your next birthday rolls around, it will be much better.


i dont know about them specifically but if theyre a powder, they dont qualify as food in my book. eat food. cheaper for u too most likely. wen u isolate things, the synergism btwn the whole nutrient spectrum is lost and mite be the key to health for some ppl. IE Calcium needs boron and phosphorus to be asborbed. just taking calcium doesnt work very well. eat the whole food, stay away from pills and powders…wen i take herbs (superfoods) i take tinctures too. the whole plant was tinctured. i feel its better even than the best made powdered supplements in a cap or tab. cheap, pasteurized, unorganic milk is better than dried organic milk powder. drying the milk denatures the protein for one thing and destroys alot of other things. always eat as real (perishable) as possible. its a pain cuz it goes bad quickly but its so much better for u.
i look at taking CLO or other wholefood supplements and my daily flaxseed or even daily bean and or greens serving(s) as me caring for myself, i deserve to be cared for. i feel good about myself wen i do it. try that mindframe 🙂


SandyHeart, thanks for the warning. I’m wondering if the reason I haven’t met too many sociopaths on dating sites is because I avoid the ones that quote bible phrases or talk a lot about religion. If one of those types contacts me, I just tell them I’m not a Christian. It’s amazing how many say they don’t care, and yet it’s SO important to them in their profile. There’s a red flag right there. So many spaths seem to hide behind religion. I don’t think all Christian men are like this, but a lot of spaths wave it around like a banner. Sounds like you got a real winner there. To me, truly spiritual people don’t need to prove anything with their religion, and they don’t need to wave it around like a banner.


Dear ain’t: Not sure why I can’t reply directly to your posts. Maybe cause they’re too new. I used to be a distributor for Herbalife many years ago. I got so much energy from their shakes, and I remember there was some scientific reason why they worked so well in helping your intestines absorb the nutrients from the food you eat. It had something to do with the cilia – the little hairs in the intestines getting flattened down, and the Herbalife restores them which aids in absorption. I will have to research this more. So much to learn about nutrition. Since I work out a lot, I need a lot of protein, so I think it might not be a bad way to start the day. Of course I’d love to eat only raw, organic foods at all times, but it’s just not realistic for my budget and my lifestyle. My God, the 5-day detox is like a full time job! Between making daily salads, juicing veggies, juicing ginger for salad dressing, making desserts, cooking soups, etc., I barely have time for anything else. It’s really great to do it though. Physically I feel great and have a lot of energy. I’m into day 4 now. One more day to go. I figured out how to reconcile the cookies I had on Thursday….I will just write this in as part of the detox plan. 😉

I look forward to a day when I can be completely self-employed and can have more time for self-care, including food preparation. I don’t know how people take care of themselves when they have stressful 40-hour-a-week jobs.

I have several friends who are doing Herbalife, and they positively glow with health. The transformation was amazing. Of course, it’s part of their total fitness plan, so they are also doing Zumba and working out. I watched one of my friends drop 50 lbs in 6 months. She got really buff and is now a Zumba instructor and personal trainer. It’s hard to get over the difference.


try feeding kids too lol
wen i was working fulltime last year and had an hr commute both ways i had to still make sure my kids ate. i had the sitter do some very basic things, even just start spaghetti as i got home about 6.30. but alot of my off-time was spent planning, prepping, cooking ahead–>food. i literally made menus so she’d feed them correctly (she had no clue to eat, ive known her since she was 2) and use up planned-overs. she got rid of some allergies and hooked on real fats and real salt. she got more energy and went for walks [she’s extremely lazy :0]. she loves it wen i make barley/oats or kale/chard/collards & give her some (cook em in juices from baking or crockpotting a chicken/turkey/roast and salt well).
i wish working out would do it for me. i lose absolutely nothing until my hormones are balanced, even working out daily (which i do love). i feel better, sleep better, get muscles under the fat but nothing budges till my diet is correct. there are many many ppl like me so i laugh wen i see calories in/calories out stuff. IF u have the right metab, it’ll work, if not, well… We have an epidemic of Type2 diabetes, etc now. and its all lifestyle choice. its very sad. there are at least as many ppl with metabs that are not “typical” as there are ppl who have that happy metab where u just “cut back”. but its hard to get medical ppl to recognize this … or anyone else lol.
thot of another good book about fat being important: D. Schwarzbein’s The Schwarzbein Principle (there are actually 3 bks and a ckbk–ur library has them). Good complement to the Metab Miracle; Metab Miracle finetunes the ideas in the Schw Principle and informs u so u can ignore the anti-fat bias of Metab Miracle. the 1st 2 bks in the Schw series are just chockful of info, period. She is a eat real food, not processed person also. Metab Miracle relies a little heavily on fake foods–lowcarb breads (just cut out bread or eat a small amt of real bread/wraps), low fat this and that, supplement pills. But u can easily just sub real food for it. She also emphasizes exercise. So its well rounded.
ive enjoyed chatting with u about this all. hope u’ve gotten something out of it 🙂 i hope others reading it sometime will incorporate some ideas & get their bodies well-er to help their emotional & mental healing…theres a big mental-somatic connection. eating crap and drinking crap is a big disservice to urself, hard as it may be the first days of stopping it. it will be worth it if can possibly change some daily diet things. wgt loss is not the issue wen ur reeling from the abuse, but physically feeling a little better can help 🙂
~~shyt, i feel better just *caring* for ME~~


Dear ain’t: The nutrition discussion may interest a few people. It’s a good discussion. I will check that book out from the library. My main form of work out is dancing. I do it every day in some form or other, and it’s taken off 20 lbs. It doesn’t feel like working out at all. I do a few free weights at the gym and pilates in my living room, but those feel like more of a chore. If anyone likes to dance, I highly recommend it as an aerobic workout. Zumba and salsa are my main ones, but I also love hip hop and reggaeton or just going out to see live bands.

Regarding the kids discussion – that’s reason #457 why I don’t have any. lol It’s all I can do to take care of mySELF.


I wish you’d been sitting with a group of gal pals of mine as we got to thinking of writing a book about those “Come Again?” wincing things we’d done in the throes of some guy’s play. The stories we confessed to got us laughing silly. And we all agreed that a book like that (sans sermon)would do our sisters good… If not for a laugh, for knowing that a lot of great sisters have checked their good sense at the door at one time or another.

So, you done did that and won’t do it again. You’re going to be all right. Give yourself a pass on this one because the rest of us did.

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