By | November 16, 2010 304 Comments

LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: I did not choose this guy

Editor’s note: Lovefraud received the following e-mail from a woman who we’ll call, “Cybil.” She was married to a sociopath, and is now raising two toddlers, paying 75%+ of their support, and being run into the courts, stalked, threatened and harassed.

Today I was thinking about this comment I get a lot from the supposed “resources” I have. What I have found is that there really is not much in the way for resources out there for abused women. Even my family, who have been helpful and are starting to “get it” little by little, can be a little backhanded in their support.

The comment goes like this: “Well, you chose this guy. You chose to have kids with this guy.” It is always said after they are frustrated at your upset or stress, or after they have gotten stressed, or when they realize they really can’t help you. I guess it’s a kind of guilt deflector. A way of saying, ultimately it’s your own damn fault so take the drama somewhere else. Even if the drama is externally created and you’re trying your best to have the boring, drama-free life that is SO attractive now. I would love boring.

The thing is, I didn’t “choose” this guy. He chose me. I chose a different guy, the one he was pretending to be. Yes, maybe I got involved too quickly. They are good at moving things along. So yes, I made a bad decision. It’s true. I would undo it if I could. Some people make hasty relationship decisions and have it all work out fine, like my parents did. But is that one bad decision I made as bad as all the things he has done: the emotional and physical abuse, the con, the isolation, the crazymaking, the fact that I had to give up a great career, my life savings, my car, the fact that I am being run into court on an almost monthly basis, the fact that my good reputation is now sullied with the lies he tells.

No I didn’t choose this. I was smart, successful, maybe a little vulnerable, but not stupid. And I was nice. That’s why he chose me. That’s what people don’t get. I am not this psycho-bitch he keeps telling people I am. If I was, he would have moved on to an easier mark. The reality is that I was a semi-Pollyanna, who believed in helping people, giving the benefit of the doubt, being NICE.

So, no this is not my fault. This incredible nightmare that has become my life since I met this man, is not entirely my fault. It is a little bit my fault. I am more cautious now. But his behavior is not my responsibility, as awful as it is. And nothing I did was so bad that I deserve what has happened and is happening.

No, I didn’t choose this. Even though my mother said it today. Even though the cop that was supposedly on my side (after I received a death threat) said this after they brought him in for questioning, and then reduced the whole thing to a “domestic matter.”

I didn’t choose the nightmare. It chose me. I was just a little too naive to tell. I am not anymore.

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Ox Drover

Dear Cybil,

Yea, just a matter of a “DOMESTIC” DEATH THREAT is that like domestic vs foreign terrorists attacks? Is it worse or not as bad if the murder is DOMESTIC instead of FOREIGN?

Thank you for sharing your story, Cybil, and I* think many or most of us can relate to the “well, you choose the xxxx” and I think you are right, it is a guilt deflector for them either not being able or willing to help you, and a way to say I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR ANYMORE ABOUT YOUR PROBLEMS, FEARS OR PAIN…If I acknowledge that YOU could make a mistake that could lead to this, I might have to acknowledge that I could make such a massive mistake too.”

I’m sorry that your own mother is not supportive of you, but that is the case many times with victims of abuse. In my case, my mother had programmed me to ACCEPT abuse and by me REFUSING to accept it from my own son, from her brother my Uncle Monster, and from others, she had to punish me for refusing to accept my role as VICTIM.

It is possible that you might want to look at your own mother’s role in the “family dynamics” for a clue of why she can’t “get it” or feel more compassion. Sometimes these “Beaver Cleaver Families” are not as free of dysfunction as they appear to be.

Growing up I observed my maternal grandmother as the “peace maker” who always had something NICE to say about anyone, it wouldn’t have mattered if the guy was a serial killer, she would have said, “Yes, but he was good to his dog.” LOL

What I did NOT SEE was that my grandmother went to extreme lengths to “keep peace” in the family by keeping the family SECRETS of abusive behavior in the males in the family, primarily her psychopathic son. Just as she had seen her “sweet” mother cover up for her abusive father and keep the “secret” of their abuse.

Go along to get along, at whatever the PRICE–funny thing is, though, YOU are the one who has to pay the price. It took me a long time to realize the REAL dynamics of (a) why I took so much crap, and B) why I felt guilty if I rebelled against it, and (C) why there was a vested interest in my egg donor keeping me taking crap instead of supporting me in escaping from abuse.

The healing road starts out about learning about the psychopaths and why they do what they do and defending ourselves, but in many cases, ends up being about US and why we didn’t see it for what it was, and why our families don’t support us, and how we can heal ourselves.

Good luck in your healing, and I finally (FINALLY!) learned to validate myself and quit depending the ones who should have validated and protected me. Comforted me, but in stead, blew me off and couldn’t be bothered.

You are right, you did NOT choose this nightmare, and you were too naive, but you are NOT now, and you will come out the other end of this tunnel of hell a stronger and wiser woman! Hang tough! You can do it!!!! God bless


So good to be on this site…and read todays post…I wrote months ago from Belize, where I was frantically trying to escape a very scary situation…my contact ended when he threw the laptop in the sea……True…I also did NOT pick THIS guy….the one I met and went for a “ride” with was some fabrication….he disappeared about 6 months into the relationship, and I slowly slipped into some abyss where I truly believed I was crazy.

I kept leaving and going back, with such genuine promises to stop the destructive behavior…until there were no resources to leave, or even to make a phone call, or get anywhere safe.

This really happened, I felt paralyzed, but this site gave me enough info that I KNEW I WASN”T CRAZY, and I was under some insane spell, and I had to run for my life…Literally

A few of you here who post regularly have no idea how your strength and clarity gave me hope…the unraveling of my mind
and the total destruction of former self is incredible. The addictive nature of the relationship was unfathomable to me.
This was a brand new experience of losing ALL Sanity….and only I could get me out of it.

To make a long story short…I got out of the country and finally made it back to the U.S. a little over a month ago.
Am staying with my family and started out strong, yet am watching a melting of my resolve, as I am not allowed to discuss any of it, I am getting accused of not trying hard enough, etc. I have no money, car or anything material,so
I am kind of trapped, but believe I will get out of this also.

What a nightmare…I think I scare people because NO ONE wants to see someone in my position. I am not playing victim,yet I really need assistance temporarily. Of course, I made mistakes….anyway, I just don’t want to feel alone in this anymore, accepting that others are not interested is the way it is. Period.

I am understanding more and more of the deep dysfunction,and gaining understanding watching the dynamics of my mother and father.

Hopefully soon I will have another place to live and able to find work. Whoever thought I would be starting over at 58????
I believe in a Higher Intelligence….this experience has opened me in incrredible ways…its just that right now, seeing how my family’s offers of help are not really helpful is eye-opening.

On the positve side, I know I have received a gift of shaking my belief system to the core, and FINALLY starting to get a grip that I am fine, I need nothing from anyone, I have everything I need, and the way will be shown….and I do not have to do anything that my insides tell me not to…

I am the “One” I have been looking for….

Thank you Ox Drover, Erin B, Hens, and many more and Cybel today for moving me to put my healing first, and write outloud, and start to tell my story, because there is Magic of Healing in the “Telling” and I am not a bad person, or there is nothing Wrong with me.

This is huge for me to write and to get myself out of isolation, and I am SOOOOO grateful to this site.

So happy to be back in the U.S… all are my invisible friends that make me feel not so alone. Thanks…..

As I reread what I have written there are tears flowing down my cheeks, as I sit in the library, but I need support and tired of toughing it out alone…..and for now I have to go, but I am AGAIN going to commit to writing every day….to the best of my ability.

Dani S

Dear gypsydi,
write, write & write and always know you are not alone.
I ended up at my parents, with 3 children, no car, no money, no self worth and a heap of debt! I started over pushing 40 and I know it is not a nice feeling.

Nothing compares to support & understanding to move forward from the pain & lose. Either that be this site, family, friends ect . . I was blessed I had all 3. It took for me twelve months to get back on my feet. The most important part is to concentrate on your emotional healing and the rest will follow.

Material possessions can wait but be kind to yourself, seek out the ones that understand and it is not about playing the victim, that game is only played by the sociopath’s.

I think so many of us were very strong people before our experiences and afterward we are not sure how to ask for help.

Glad you are back on your home soil, that is a important place to be… all the best..

Dani S

BTW in regards to this article I was only having the same conversation with a friend last week ‘ I did not choose this guy’
My friend said to me ” What did you see in him” and I answered her ” I never had a choice” , ” he decided that I was the one he was going to be with and that was that”
Luckily this friend of mine once knew him and she understood what I meant but so many others dont!


Thank you Dani S

It is amazing to step out of the aloneness, you have inspired me…I was a very strong person before the Spath entered….was totally happy being single for six years, am still sometimes totally shocked how I was so blind-sided and confused, yet hung in there.

Now it is time to hang-in there just for me….and allow the healing…the desire for any contact at this point is demolished.
But that was not the case for a long time.

I want to come out of hiding…it seems the only way to go.
I definitly was targeted..promised he would never Lie to me, ever, and he did not care what I looked like, I was his soul mate, and he pretended interest in everything that I was to hook me. Spiritual, metaphysical avenues…he was a total fraud, and a fabulous actor, and he hooked me….but I have “unhooked myself”, and I will emerge stronger and wiser
I believe I already am…..

Times up for me on computer….tomorrow I will be back.



Another tragic story. I feel for you, knowing how frustrating it is to have the ongoing drama – your support system (eg. family, friends, etc.) not always being able to withstand the mess either, getting sick of all the spath’s trouble-making ways. Peace to you.

Ox Drover

Dear Gypsydi,

Welcome back to LF and glad you are back on US soil at least. I’m sorry that your parents don’t understand but that is not too surprising, really.

I know that having validation from people helps, but the thing I had to learn was to VALIDATE MYSELF and it sounds like you are learning to do that now.

There IS VALIDATION here, however, so I hope that will be enough to see you through. How ever horrible your story, we have all been through TOTAL CHAOS. If you are at the Library, see if they have Dr. Viktor Frankl’s “Man’s search for meaning” it was the book that turned me around to see my search, my chaos as having a MEANING. It is spiritual without being religious and it might be just the “ticket” for you right now.

I too had a spiritual awakening that helped me make it through those darkest nights of pain and aloneness, feeling abandoned.

YOU are NOT alone, however, and though we can’t reach out and actually make physical contact, you are in my prayers and my thoughts and the spirit of compassion is here on this blog. (((Hugs)))) and God bless.



you said: ‘Am staying with my family and started out strong, yet am watching a melting of my resolve, as I am not allowed to discuss any of it, I am getting accused of not trying hard enough, etc.

This is my experience too. You need to ignore their ignorance, and come here where, although we are only words on a page, you will be understood and welcomed. it sound like your parents can’t deal with/ own up their own pain, let alone deal with yours – no water from a stone, right?

‘ I have no money, car or anything material,so I am kind of trapped, but believe I will get out of this also.’

i too have been in a very difficult place financially, and healthwise. This is a huge strain and drain, and believe me it is making the whole thing worse. This will change over time. I am 50 – and I can imagine that 8 years from now, this would be even more difficult.

I lived in Belize for a while, in the south; so, I have some idea what the culture is like – i don’t know if you were living with a Belizean or an ex pat. But I know that there is a culture of violence against women; a regressive social order – sexism, homophobia and misogyny run rampant; and there are huge social-political divides dependent on the color of your skin, your ethnicity and how much money you have.

I am glad you are on home soil. It’s the beginning. It may go very slowly, but you can do it. I would suggest getting some treatment for PTSD if possible; you sound really shook. And your not being able to talk about it, and being treated like it’s some kind of break of a ‘normal’ bad relationship will compound the PTSD.

(i had a friend, a counselor, write to me and say, ‘sorry to hear you had another bad relationship’ (she was around during my breakup with my ex, who i now know to be a narcissist). I was punched in the gut by that, and wrote back, ‘I DID NOT HAVE A BAD RELATIONSHIP, I WAS TARGETED BY A SOCIOPATH!!

Keep writing, keep posting, get some fresh air every day and try to do one thing everyday that you like (for me, it’s small – like taking a deep breath in the fresh air). You have a lot of building up to do. Be patient with yourself, and don’t give those who are not patient with you the time of day. Seriously.



Quick question outside the nature of this tread. There was another article earlier on LF about a man who had a spath wife with two boys. I posted on that tread and wonder what happened to it. It was a very moving story and it’s strange that it’s no longer on this site.




Ox Drover

Dear Hope4joy,

do a search for your posts, or ask Donna for help if that doesn’t bring up what you are interested in finding. I have problems locating things sometimes too. There is so much here and I have a memory like swiss cheese.

Ox Drover


Sometimes it does feel like they leave a slime trail of EVIL behind them as they pass through, so I can relate to what you are feeling.

I would suggest that you do your own “ceremony” to expunge the evil feelings and then give it some time.

To me, nothing can have power over us if we refuse to let it! (((Hugs)))) and God bless.


Hi Ox…removed my post because it just looked dumb. No, this guy really was involved with a paranormal group, and i really think he left something behind. It sounds childish, but he really, really was that evil to try to destroy me because I finally saw through him.


I am afraid to do my own ceremony…I don’t feel that I am strong enough.

Ox Drover

(((Jazzy)))) Whatever evil aura they leave behind I think (my opinion only here) can be exorcised if we believe it can be. I think the BELIEF we have that it is there helps keep it there. Maybe you can find a friend, a minister or someone else you trust to come there and help you get rid of this feeling of evil from your home. (((Hugs))) and I will keep you in my prayers. My whole farm felt like it was under a “black cloud” of evil until I became stronger myself. In this case, I think believing in ourselves helps us over come the “aura of evil” that we feel where they have been. (((hugs))) and God bless.


Wow! i could not have said it any better…

“True”I also did NOT pick THIS guy”.the one I met and went for a “ride” with was some fabrication”.he disappeared about 6 months into the relationship, and I slowly slipped into some abyss where I truly believed I was crazy.”!!!!!

We all have a claim to be have been strong/independent women before our xspath. I think there is a “little girl” deep inside of all of us that needs a break or a laugh and that is what the xspath goes for, the jugular vein the the little girl within us that like to have a good belly laugh, or know that the flat tire we just got will be taken care of for us. Have we spent so much energy and time being strong and independent that we are worn out and would love a break from it? Little did we know…. we would be pushed beyond our already tired limits and have to run for our lives and survival. Once we let the guard down we were screwed.
just my thoughts! Please share and God bless us all that are here!


Have you been outside lately? Did your home help come out yet?


OXYYYY!! Hugzzz!

The bad guys that we have been swatting at are GONE now!!! Thank God!!! What a relief!!!!


I remember that ‘aura of evil’ not only after he left but when he was here also. But now that my mind is clearer I know it was oppression. The experience of oppression generates self-doubt, fear, and shame in those affected by it.


Good reply hens…. oppression does generate a feeling of being with an evil spirit or being… That’s strange that when my xspath proposed to me I said I wanted God in our relationship( I must have detected the oppression before he was train wreck in my life) and he joined the local church….. he still has them fooled to this day!!! I left town with a blaze of fire behind me never to be heard from or seen again… wouldn’t that put a common sense question in some of the “little ol church ladies minds”?

Dani S

One step, makes a good point about PTSD.. when I went to my parents my mother a former psychologist didn’t understand me. 1)
I was too proud for 5 years to let her know what I had married, plus at the time I didn’t really understand at the time what I had married &
2, with all my Mothers knowledge she had not seen the effects of what a full blown spath does to its victims.

Mum would get frustrated as as soon as I was free I went in a comatosic state and just wanted to sleep. And when I wasn’t sleeping I was freaking out with anxiety.

When I was diagnosed with PTSD and had a wonderful therapist that allowed us as a family to understand what exactly was going on with me.

Remember it takes an enormous amount of strength & courage & bravery to get out of these relationships and have no contact. We are the lucky ones, we are now free, free to heal and take back our lives. This healing process sometimes takes time, we have to been to war and back so just look after yourself, write it all down & cry a lot. Tears clear the windows of your battered soul!

One Step I love your comment ” I didn’t have a bad relationship, I was targeted by a Sociopath” how very very true. Bad is such an insulting word for what it was!


although for some reason, that I am not sure of…. I have become invisible on love fraud and not responded to. It is still helping me greatly and I will continue to read and share and cry.
I love this quote:
Tears clear the windows of your battered soul!
It is so true!!! Through my tears, I see my blessings!!!

Dani S

soimnotthecrazee1 HELLO! sorry you are not invisible! sometimes we all feel a bit invisible! But you are just as important as us all here, looking and needing validation at times.
I get ignored quite often, but hey I am used to it I am a mother of 3 kids and apparently they cannot hear a word I say!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂


[email protected] Dani!
Hi back at ya!
Thanks! God bless you being a mother of 3! How old are they?

Dani S

soimnotthecrazee1 They are 12, 10 and 3! The older 2 are from my first marriage and the 3 year old is from my marriage to the spath. She is a beautiful little girl that gives me endless amount of joy like the other two and I am so blessed that she has never had any contact with her violent Spath father!

Do you have any children??? I am just off to pick them up from school. Will be back soon.

I had a OMGGGGG moment about 15 minutes again. I have just been paid $61.00 in Child support for my 3 year old. That is the very first amount in 3 years, yahooo! they have caught up with him….. It is a long way to the $13,000 he owes but it is pleasure to receive something from him! lol
Now I will go and pay her child care fee’s when I pick her up , woohoo lol 😉

Ox Drover

Dear notcrazee,

This is not a “chat room” so sometimes we post a comment and it may be minutes, days or hours before someone gets back to us on it….or if someone comes on that is in “urgent” need, your post may indeed get “skipped over” but NO one as far as I know has ever ignored anyone deliberately here except when the trolls come on and we “go gardening” on them…or “gray rock” or treat them like potted plants.

If you FEEL ignored, keep in mind that sometimes our being wounded makes us super sensitive, but believe me, no one here would deliberately treat you as invisible. I feel very confident in speaking for the group on this one and if someone objects to me speaking for the group on this, they can hit me with the skillet!



soimnotthecrazee1 – Hey I see ya – you ain’t invisible, I am the invisible one but I keep on yaking. You need to remember LF is not like a chat site, sometimes it takes hours or days to get a reply but that doesnt mean your not being read.. I think some of us oldtimers post to the collective group of one. Sometime’s just posting how I am feeling or something I have done is not always in need of a response it’s just me needing to connect with cyber space or just sending myself out to where ever…kinda like journaling..But I notice when I really have a bad day my friends show up to give me a hug or a kick in the ass and both are appreciated…it’s about connecting with ourselves with the support of ‘moonvibes?..’


yes – I like that – my’ MOON -VIBERS ‘ you all know who you are…


i feel a moon dance coming up soon…

Ox Drover

Okay, henry, what is it with the moon dance coming on? Did you find my still again? If I get up in the mountains and found out you dun robbed my still again a I’ll have to send big Bubba after ya with the big skillet!

The ONLY time I ever had me one of those naked moon dances I was drinking home-made shine, dancing in the rain and only weighed 110 at the time so I looked okay, but I was far enough in the African bush no one but the monkeys saw me, or maybe the antelope.

Son D and I got the cabinets back on the wall and secured down, and I’m putting the wall paper back up starting tomorrow and put the rest of the dishes back that I intend to keep and the rest to the DV care center

Well, I’;m gonna go to beddie bye here pretty soon, way too cold for me to moon dance so I’ll keep my sweats on!!! Don’t scare the bats!!! ((((hug)))


Wow you have got your hands full! No, I can’t have children, which is one thing the xspath promised me that we would adopt. I am glad that we didn’t become foster parents, I can’t even imagine the mess that would have been. Glad to hear you are least getting some little $ from the idiot.
Time to go to bed! Nighty Night!

Dani S

Notcrazee Even though that might have been a massive desire of yours to adopt, you are very lucky to have not done that with the spath! Parenting as any parent know’s is the most demanding, unappreciated job you can do! and to do it with the chaos of a spath no one can win, even with the best intention the children are always affected as well!
I am one lucky mum and I know that because he has nothing to do with her and she is has the most beautiful personality because she was so small when I left and has not been in that crazy environment for too long. She has a peaceful life and I intend to make sure it stays that way.
Night night! Notcrazy & Oxy


Dear gypsydi,

I don’t post often these days but I saw your comment and it reminded me so much of myself when I first left the Bad Man, as I call him. I had nowhere to go, no resources, no job, and people wanted to help… but only a little. Friends just did not understand the state I was in, nor did I, to be honest. I am now more that 5 years past my nightmare in paradise (Maui) and I have pulled myself and my life back together.

I recall sitting in the library (had no computer either) and looking for jobs, and crying, and feeling like a disaster. Since this most painful experience, my life has found direction and I have found healing. I am wiser, stronger, smarter.. more cautious… and what else… did I say wiser already?

Anyway, I can’t think of anything wise to say. I just wanted to reach out and say hello. You will find so much healing here with the LF community.

Here’s a tiny bit of advice… give up on your friends and loved ones understanding what happened to you. They won’t. It’s your lesson and experience. I have never had a satisfying conversation about the Bad Man with anyone that has not been abused or exploited themselves. They don’t get it… and that’s okay. Let’s hope they do not have to go through a devastating event like you did and I did and all of the other folks here. You will feel supported here at LF.

My experience, now that I am more that 5 years recovered, has helped me navigate life better. Before, I was “nice” and I didn’t get it when people weren’t being nice to me. I thought it was about me and something I needed to change about myself. Now, I understand people’s motives more and I can kinda see what they are up to and if they are no good. Does that make sense? Before, I couldn’t see that because I thought that everyone was wired on the inside like me.

Anyway, welcome. You are in THE PLACE for healing. (Oxy is in the house!!!)

Now… I must get back to my studies.

:O) Aloha and take care.


Great post and comments…

I can totally relate,and was also told by my therapist that I also have PTSD..
Quite a rollercoaster ride,and when I think Im hitting a groove again,
(Like “How Stella Got Her Groove Back”),something may serve as a trigger for me and it all comes back very intensely..

I Do Not discuss the matter with friends or family anymore,for the same reasons mentioned in the article above.
It does help to vent.
So I do it here..
It also helps me,to take time off from here,as well,to see how long I can go without thinking of Ex-spath-World-Land..

Sometimes,it is simply too overwhelming.
Not sure why I can’t stay away from this site,but I think it has to do with the face that everytime I read a post ,or story/comments on here..
I can totally relate to what everyone is talking about,and it is exactly what happened to me.
Like to think I’m getting more wise as to how I choose my friends,and making sure to set up bounderies in my current relationships with others.
It takes practice for me,and I really DO think the experience has helped me be more self-protective in that way..which is good..

Its amazing..
I don’t expect any of these feelings to disappear overnight,but it would be great if they would.
I really don’t have time to grieve some BS,that I wasn’t looking for..
Just as well,I am determined to not let the situation get the best of me..

There’s a fine line..
From day to day it is different,and there is still alot to learn..
I agree with what severalothers have recommended though,that you should come here to do your dishing,crying,and getting the support and understanding that you need..

It is pretty cool to know that there are many who understand what you are going through,and that you ARE TRULY NOT ALONE!!

The strength is that seeking out a computer in the library proves that you are strong.
You are going to any lengths to take care of yourself..

I once read in a really great book,”The Artists Way”..
“Treating Myself Like a Precious Object Makes Me Stronger..”

It is true,and you are a Precious child of God..
Regardless of your religious beliefs,it may help to pray.

Ive Been told,”There Is A God,and you are Not it”,
As well as,”Its OK if you don’t believe in God..
God beileves in You”..

These phrases have helped me in some of my worst moments,so I wanted to pass them along for those who may have never heard them..

Good Night All.

Dani S

Trueloveistrue, well done I love that are getting your groove back!
I too come and go from LF, depending on how busy and how I am feeling! I too wish all the feeling would just go away but I have been 3 years from the spath experience and I still get triggered, not as much anymore but it is still there! you cant go through what we have and breeze off into the future!
What ever it is that helps we should use it, either it be religion, therapy, LF or what ever, except maybe not wine, I used that for a couple of months and all it gave me was a head ache to go along with the heart ache!
I dont know about religion myself, I must say Australian’s unlike American’s and probably the rest of the world are on the whole not very religious, not sure why!but I love your little phrases! as I didn’t have a god! I had to get to the stage where I had to believe in myself! I doubted myself for so long afterwards but it was time to sit up, believe in myself and start trying to move forward. I have come a long way I am employed, have a car again and a roof over the kids and my head but I still love LF as it keeps me moving in the right direction, keeps me strong and that is Gold! 🙂


Dear Cybil

I’m nice too and I didn’t choose him either – he chose and then actively pursued me, winning me over once he had studied me hard enough and long enough to know exactly what to feed back at me to meet my genuine needs (with his fake behaviour).

Friends jokingly call me “Pollyanna” also. I even describe myself (frequently) as “Pollyanna-ing” situations that appear grim; looking for silver linings, on the bright side of life, sunny-side-up, and all that jazz…

For years I have been craving boredom. Whenever somebody tells me that they are bored, I say, “You lucky thing!” – and I truly mean it. Although a very gregarious animal and somebody who is often the clown of social engagements, I would dearly love nothing better than monotony, sameness, peace and quiet.
Lovely, lovely still and soft boredom. Yum, yum!

I play the “Glad game” more cautiously now. I can’t (at the moment) afford to help others as much as I once did; I need all that I have for me – I’m still “growing back” from the poisoning I’ve had.

All in time. x. You will get there.

A favourite saying of mine is this: “Success is the ability of standing up just one more time than you’ve been knocked down”. Just one more time.

kim frederick

I’ve been catching up, this AM, reading this thread and really wanted to comment on the evil aura left in the wake of the spath. When I discovered my X husband had been cheating on me, all the blinders fell from my eyes, and I realized that I had been actively denying everything my GUT knew. All of a sudden I felt crazy, confused, obssessed with the TRUTH. Everything in my life, all my beliefs, values, perceptions, experiences, wants, desires, dreams, were called into question. I literally didn’t know anything to be true anymore.

It was in the midst of all this chaos, that I, too, felt like there was an evil entity residing in my house. It was a creepy feeling, and I knew how crazy it was. I had never been a really superstitious (for lack of a better word) person. I didn’t really believe in stuff like that…and yet, I couldn’t shake it.

I went to a Native American shop that sold beads, books, music, and other sudry stuff, and bought a smudge bundle. Are you familiar? It is mostly dried sage, but also has some cedar in it also. You hold it in your hand, and light it like incense, and the smoke clears the room of negative energy…it is supposed to rid your home of evil spirits.

I think, if you find something you believe in and choose some kind of ritual cleansing, along with prayer, you will feel a huge relief. Your own energy will change, and the feeling of oppression, that Hens talked about will lessen.

I just wanted to share my experience with you. God bless.


Dani S,

You’re right when you said, “you can’t go through what we have and breeze off into the future.” It’s day-to-day living (sometimes), needing to control our thoughts, making our days pleasanter. The spaths are alike in how they treat people, the ones’ that they target (associate with) getting the brunt of their trouble-making ways. I read your posts, finding them to be helpful, thinking that you’re a pretty great person. Take care.

kim frederick

I just read the article. For me the get busting phrase that people used when I tried to explain my experience with the spath, was, well, you let him do it!

I let him do it? WTF?

What everyone failed to understand was: I was in denial. I really believed that I was powerfull enough to fix him….if I could just figure out how…I could make it work! No one, even myself understood that. I was hooked and powerless to change anything. I couldn’t quit him even though I desparately wanted to.

To other people, I appeared crazy or stupid…”no one in their right mind would put up with that…” Or, “why don’t you just leave?”…we can name that tune in two notes.

We feel ashamed of ouselves and our self-esteem continues to shrink, and we become more and more helpless and hopeless.

This is the classic, “blaming the victim” mentality, and most people possess it. It is a comfortable way to explain away evil, and deny it. It is a way for folks to convince themselves that they live in a safe world and that this sort of thing could never happen to them….because after all, they wouldn’t “choose that kind of guy” or they would never “let him do it”….It provides them with the assurance that if they continue to be the “good, self-righteous people THEY are, they will never meet with such a fate.

If we are blown-away by their evil deeds, and if we are shaking our heads in wonderment, if we are looking for explainations, ie. “how did this happen?, what on earth is wrong with him…how could he do this, etc. etc. etc…” and WE LIVED IT, how can other folks possibly wrapp their heads around it? They are still living with the idea that everyone THINKS the way they do…that there must be a reasonable explaination for all this….a cause and effect, if you will….

So to keep their safe world image intact, they blame us…
They have too. It would be too terrifying to really see the truth…it would rock their world and everything in it…and not in a good way.


good morning. Thank you all SO MUCH! Where else could I post saying I was feeling oppressed by an evil spirit and not get laughed off the board?

Not only did you guys not laugh at me, you shared your similar stories. I am so touched that i am crying a bit right now…tears of relief. It is SO good to have a place to go…remember that song from the old ‘Cheers’ show?

Feeling a little stronger today. Kim, there is a lovely herbal shop nearby…I may just stop in and get a smudge bundle…have to check the finances first. I do have Holy water…used it after the spath was gone, but have not done it in a long time.

soimnothtecrazee1…I still can’t stay in the front yard, but I was able to clean up the leaves in the back. I’ll take that for a small victory for now.

My home therapist helper is coming tomorrow…Thursday morning. Very nervous, but I’m going try to embrace this as my next step towards healing.

Thank you all again…and again…and again!


kim frederick,

Your post is spot-on. We are looked upon as “losers,” like somehow we should have known that the men we were involved with were imposters. We have to live with the fall-out from these relationships, getting past it all somehow, someway. Take care.


What I do is ask God to clear my house of all unclean spirits, ending with “in the name of Jesus”. I immediately feel a cleaner space. This is something that I do periodically (usually when I’m having a quiet time, reading my Bible, praying), though it can be done daily. Also, some people will take olive oil and dab some of it on the doors and windows of the home, praying that God would be in the house, not any evil entities. I know all of this sounds far-out, but it works. Take care.

Dani S

Hi bluejay, I have seen you around LF for a long time now and appreciate your words & hope you are doing well. I am not a religious person but know I am a good person, blimey isn’t that why we are all here…spath prey on the good! and we are winning the fight against evil! because we have each other and we are forging freedom & understanding with each others help!
It is not easy but one thing we learnt whilst in these relationships is how to fight! we might not have known it at the time when we were dribbling messes, preying to be loved and not understanding what we had done wrong for them to not love us and to be so cruel when we couldn’t do any more to make ‘their’ lives better, but we fought, fought to get out out and fought to be free of the shyte! We will be ok, we have never been so ok, because now we are on the other side! xx

Kimmy they may be the master of disguise but we were the masters of Denial! for what ever reason it was and different for all we didn’t want to believe what our instincts were telling us, because we were in love with our partner, loved our father’s, mother’s sibling’s, child, who ever it was. It is a very harsh realisation that someone we loved so dearly could be so evil! I always say ” it broke me loving someone that actually hated me but would’nt let me go”!xx


Mornin Jazzy!
Great accomplishment cleaning up the leaves in the back yard. At least you are out of the house.
As far as feeling the evil, you are not crazee~~~~~ I believe it was an Oxy post I read, she called it being slimmed! I felt disgustingly filthy with that man!!!! I couldn’t brush my teeth enough, I couldn’t get enough showers etc.etc. I thought it was that old house, but I am right now coming to terms with “it was HIM”!! It was the side of him without the mask on, the evil side of him that made me feel that way. I remember telling a friend… I don’t know why I am not happy, is it him, the old house, this small town or just all of it?
Use your Holy water!!!!
WOW what a revelation in my thinking! I wish I would have found LF 2-3 yrs ago.

Ox Drover

WOW!!! Some really great posts!

WELCOME Aloha, I’m so glad you checked back in, your comments are as always wonderfully spot on.

The caring and concern, compassion and love shown in the above posts shows just how much there is available here at LF…the “slimeing” (HOW the heck DO you spell slime-ing?)isn’t my original thought—I parrot a lot of what I see here guys, so don’t give me credit for all the one liners , though I do humbly VERY humbly admit some of the really great ones are my original ones! There are others that just sort of fall in to the LoveFraud lexicon like the TOWANDA one (can’t for the life of me remember who brought that one up but it sure works as our WAR CRY!”

Henry’s “s-pathole” is another one that has been in the vocabulary as well as “relation-shit” and too many others to think of right now with my Swiss cheese brain.


Great quote!

” it broke me loving someone that actually hated me but would’nt let me go”!

That is so true!


I have a question…. “DID THEY ALL START OUT AS NERDS?”
As we went to school and grew up there were different types of kids. Jocks, burnouts, nerds (which were the brainiacs),confused and average (middle of the road etc, etc.)
Every male that I know that has never been married or had children are a classic spath. They are/were nerds as a young person and still are nerds, selfish and know how to the wear the mask that makes them a nice guy to society. Just don’t try and live with them, they have way too much to hide!!!! They end up being porno freaks ( is that because they were a nerd and never got any sex as a young person?),hoarders, financial issues, adrenaline junkies, generaly lazy and control freaks. Most computer geeks!!!
If a nerd did break out of the nerd shell, did they have a truly successfull relationship? or did they “super glue” that mask on to never fall off? or is that the families we read about that are now broken after many years?
I want to relate the nerd/geek mentallity to this disorder. Ever watched the TV show “Big Bang Theory”??
Just a thought about the fine line between genius and insnanity!!

super chic

notcrazee, IMHO I would say no, they did not all start out as nerds. The spath I was involved with was good looking with the “bedroom eyes” as a young child and he became sexually active at age 14. On the other hand, my daughter is married to a computer geek/nerd… who is a wonderful man (so far, haha).


Oh well, that blows my theory right out of the water. I’m just trying to wrap my head around this whole thing. I am still in the AH HAH stages…. acceptance I guess.
What about the old saying about parents and children… The NUT (child) doesn’t fall far from the TREE(parent). If the parents are nutz then the kid will be or vice versa…. if the kid is nutz then one of the parents are! Just trying to understand!

super chic

notcrazee, well… mine is just one person’s opinion! Maybe others will write their ideas!!! I have read here that a child born with some psychopathic tendencies might become worse around bad parents, but I have also read mom’s here at LF who suspect their child might be a psychopath that are trying to teach their young children empathy and compassion. I am NO expert!!!

Ox Drover

Tests on the3 IQs of psychopaths have shown that they are just like everyone else, they range from retarded to brilliant. I guess which one you see more of tends to depend on what social set you run in…some of the brighter ones from the “higher class” families manage to make it to “high office” in politics, medicine, law, etc. and we’ve seen plenty of examples here of them being in the governor’s offices, and I personally think we’ve had some presidents that qualified as psychopaths–like one who said “I did NOT have sex with that woman.” (no names of course) LOL

But psychopaths are just like everyone else EXCEPT they have little or no conscience and they are after CONTROL and/or power in whatever sphere they can work in and keep their mask up.

Some groups don’t bother with “good guy” masks, like some of the leaders of the violent gangs and criminal groups. Some keep up a mask with someone they are conning but don’t the rest of the time if they are associating with criminal element…some can dance from group to group and others cant.

The defining characteristic though is the lack of remorse, conscience and in many cases lack of fear or shame and impulse control. Lack of impulse control doesn’t mean that they are just “impulsive” doing things on the spur of the moment, but also that they do not control their “impulses” for this or that.

Like I very well might have the “impulse/desire” for a million dollars, but I am NOT going to try to get it by robbing a bank even though that MIGHT get me my desire. I will CURB that impulse…they won’t.

I might have the impulse to seek revenge on someone that has inured me, but no matter how much I want to blow their brains out—I will CURB that impulse because I know a) it is wrong and b) it will get me arrested and sent to prison, which I don’t want.

They don’t curb it because they think they will get away with it and besides, they want to do it so nothing is wrong with them doing what they want to.

My P son became sexually active at a young age also. 13 or 14 I think, and I know at 17 he had knocked up a 13 year old—both us and her mother had tried to keep him away from her. It was only his going to jail that separated them. Her mother was frantic and the little girl had an abortion…but there was NO controlling my son on my end, and I think the mother of the girl had about the same problem I did, NO control. Didn’t follow up on the girl or what happened to her ultimately, but don’t imagine it was ideal. I actually only met her a time or two and didn’t really get much impression of her except she was young and shy.

As far as I know, P-son has never really had a “relationship” with any girl/woman for more than 60 days, including the one he murdered, or any over the age of 18. He has had pen-pal relationships with girls/women since he’s been in prison, but since age 17 he has spent a total of less than 12 months outside of a cell so really hasn’t had much of an opportunity for a relationshit…but boy does he think HE KNOWS ALL ABOUT WOMEN.

He did have a sexual relationship INSIDE PRISON with a female prison guard, actually a very attractive, married major. I met her once in the visiting room and you could almost SEE the sexual tension between them when she came over to “greet” us.

I never did understand WHY she would have a sexual relationship with an inmate–for her it would have been a FELONY if they had been caught, and have ruined a pretty good “career”—the only reason I can fathom is that she too was a psychopath and into RISK TAKING. One woman, a secretary, who had a relationship with an inmate in the Texas system was found murdered, along with her inmate lover…supposedly a suicide/murder, but there is evidence that it was murder/murder by another lover, possibly another employee of the TDCJ.

In any case, it is RISKY to be having sexual relationships with inmates. I am for “equal opportunity” in jobs, but I do NOT think women should work in prisons for males or vice versa.

The minimum security co-ed federal prison in Ft. Worth, Texas, had an average of 1 female inmate a month pregnant by staff members, who were fired…but it didn’t seem to slow down the rate any.

With the AVERAGE SCORE on the Psychopathic check list – Revised, of 22 for ALL inmates, and 25% of all inmates scoring 30 or above as full-blown psychopaths, I advise anyone with “half sense and one eye” to steer CLEAR of anyone with a criminal record worse than Jay walking.

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