Editor’s note: Lovefraud received this e-mail from a reader whom we’ll call “Lara.”
About three months ago, I met a 34-year-old German banker from Munich online (he added me on Facebook), after being very hesitant to speak to him, I gave into his persistence and we started a whirlwind romance over the phone for two months. He asked me to meet him in Paris and I did a few weeks ago, only to be dumped the day after we had sex together. I have been asking myself for answers but it was only recently that my friend brought to my attention that Y (German banker) exhibited the key traits of a sociopath.
Y added me randomly on Facebook and we had one mutual friend (A fellow Korean Uni student at my university in New York). I messaged him asking if we had met, only for him to say that he “met another Lara in NY who looks like me.” I believed him but then later found out he also added my friend and a few other girls (some of them my friends) randomly on Facebook. I thought this was very weird behaviour as I do not understand why a grown man would add random younger girls on his Facebook all of whom he does not know.
After further investigation, I found out he was messaging a few of these girls too asking to “speak on the phone as he was curious about their voice,” which is exactly what he said to me. I found this very unnerving—a grown man messaging a plethora of younger girls on the Internet asking to “hear their voice on the phone.” I confronted him about this and he got incredibly defensive and sent me an incredibly long and eloquent email explaining why he added us on Facebook as a “social experiment.” He also called me paranoid and asked me how I could be concerned about Internet predators when I had more than a 1000 friends on my Facebook.
Talked on the phone
After saying no many times to a phone conversation, my curiosity took over me and one day I agreed to a brief conversation. I thought that if he turned out to be a creep, I would just block his number on my phone. Our phone conversation turned out to be alright—he was a decent and pleasant guy. However, he continued to call me every single day from then on, along with numerous text messaging.
Soon, he told me he had grown incredibly fond of me and was using affectionate terms like “baby.” I asked him why he was interested in me, as I am a 21-year-old university student in New York, who he has never met before. He told me I underestimated myself and that he liked me because I am “well traveled, educated and down to earth.” I just could not grasp how a 30+ year old banker from Munich with good looks would stoop so low as to find a romantic interest with much younger women on the Internet.
Intimate questions
Soon after we started talking on the phone, he started to be very inappropriate with me, asking personal and intimate questions. He knew I was very uncomfortable with this but he still persisted. He would tell me to “think of falling asleep in his arms,” “our kiss,” and then he would ask me to “fantasize having sex with him.”
I don’t know how he found the confidence to talk to me in this manner, as I never reciprocated his affection or romantic interest. I was uncomfortable, so I messaged a friend of his, which I found through his Facebook list, and asked her whether I should trust him. She responded immediately with glowing reviews about Y, saying she was good friends with him when he lived in London and that he was incredibly charming, successful, social and that a lot of women fancied him. However, despite all his inappropriate behaviour, I was so completely charmed by his looks, intelligence and wit that my judgment was practically impaired.
Fly to meet him
A few weeks after this, Y asked me when my next university break was, as he wanted to see me. I had one coming up in a month, in middle March. He insisted that I fly to Munich to see him. I told him “absolutely not.” I would never stoop so low as to fly to Munich to stay with a stranger I have never met before (as a girl I need to maintain a level of dignity and self-respect). He was very persistent and said I could stay with him and that we would drive to the mountains and the outskirts of Munich to ski. I told him I would not do that, and if he really wanted to see me, he could come to New York. He told me he could not take time off work to fly to New York and so I had to go to Munich.
Anyway, I ended up deciding to go to London to visit my friends during my university break. I told him he could come to London to see me but he was not satisfied with that as “London is not a romantic city and I would be around all my friends and not spend time with him.” He said he was willing to compromise and that we should spend a “romantic weekend in paris—just him and I.”
I was very hesitant and all my close girlfriends told me not to do it, as they felt he was trying to isolate me to a place where I do not know people or speak the language. However at this point I had already fallen for him so I agreed to it. I told him I wanted to have my separate room from him but he was completely and utterly adamant that we share a hotel room together. During this point of our phone conversations, he was already telling me that he felt like he could fall in love with me, that he had told his mother about me and that I should move to Munich next year after I graduate from Uni. I couldn’t help but believe and fall for his words.
Going to Paris
Two weeks before Paris, Y and I had started talking considerably less as his company was working on a major buy-out and I was occupied with exams. He said it was good for our relationship, as it would make us miss each other more. However, as days went by, he completely stopped texting me or calling me. Before Paris, we spoke once on the phone and it was a very brief conversation ”¦ he asked me about my week and I told him “it was very stressful along with hormonal problems due to my period.” He responded by saying, “Wow perfect timing that your period is over in time for Paris.” I was very disturbed by his comment—out of everything I told him about my stressful week, he was only concerned and delighted to know that I had just ended my period in time for Paris. I started to question what exactly he wants from me. All our phone conversations were heavily intimate where he would try dig hard to get intimate information about me, and he would force me to say things to him that I was not comfortable with.
I flew to London three Thursdays ago on a red eye and then took the Eurostar to Paris. Cut to the chase, when I first saw Y opening the hotel door for him, I thought he was incredibly good looking and tall in person. Three minutes into our meeting, he pretty much threw me on the bed and tried to undress me. I told him to stop it as I was uncomfortable and that I wanted to spend time talking to him first. He seemed visibly annoyed and agreed to go have a drink with me near the Trocodero. During our drink he was very cold, distant and aloof. He was NOT affectionate with me at all.
We went back to the hotel room and I did sleep with him and then the next day at brunch in Paris, he told me “it was over and that he could not see a future with me as I was too young for him.” I was so stunned and confused. Where did this sudden realisation come about? Months after telling me he was completely “obsessed” with me? He said that he became “rational and decided it would never work for him.”
Kicked me out
I started acting irrationally and even told him that it was unfair that he did not give us a chance and that he made me feel so vulnerable by coming all the way to Paris only to sleep with him and get dumped. He became incredibly defensive and angry and told me to go back to London that same night. I was resistant as I was so confused but he pretty much kicked me out and booked me a train ticket.
During the painful last few hours with him, he acted like a complete chauvinist—making me feel bad that he wasted his weekend coming to Paris and that he could have been so many other things in Munich. He started calling his Paris friends on his mobile phone while I was next to him asking if they would have “dinner with him that night,” and while we were walking back to the hotel, he even used his knuckles and pushed me from behind as he complained that “I was walking too slowly.” He even said I should be grateful as he has so many “women on Facebook who are interested in connecting with him.” It is almost like he forgot that HE was the one who connected with me on Facebook and pursued me RELENTLESSLY.
Y did not even send me off to the train station—he asked me to drop him off at Gallerie Lafayette (a shopping mall) because it was on the way to Gare Du Nord (the train station). During this whole time, I was still so numb and confused about the situation that I did not even act disappointed or hurt by him. I even suggested we try to stay friends.
Numb and confused
I went back to London that Saturday night completely numb, confused and shocked by the situation. I gave my heart to this stranger I met on Facebook who convinced me that he was obsessed and was falling in love with me—only to fly to Paris and be used for sex and dumped the next day.
It has been a few weeks since the situation occurred and I have become more rational and objective. My friends are all very disgusted by Y’s behaviour and have been trying to let me realise that what he did was “unkind and unacceptable” and that he was basically an “Internet predator casting a wide net for young girls on Facebook.” I still have trouble seeing it that way, as I keep remembering the person I spoke to on the phone for months. I want to believe that everything he said to me was real.
However, the anger now has set in a little and I cannot believe he did that to me. We have not spoken since. Many times I feel like talking to him as I want answers—but I know this is wrong. I recently found out that Y asked another girl out on a date (one that he also added randomly on Facebook). Initially I was enraged and jealous that he moved on so fast. However, my friends try to tell me that as a sociopath, he has basically found his “next victim.”
There’s still a part of me that believes I was not good enough for him and did not meet his standards, which is why he discarded me. I also feel that perhaps I “deceived” him on Facebook, because he felt I was not as pretty in real life as I was online. I am trying to rid myself of those thoughts that are only self-destructive. I am taking it day by day ”¦ seeing a counselor. I cannot let this situation make me crumble in despair for it will be letting him win. I need to become stronger from this and move on with my life knowing that I learnt an invaluable lesson.
Dear Lara,
Thank you for sharing your story on LoveFraud. I am sure it must have been incredibly painful to share such a story. Fortunately, people on this blog do understand what it is to be targeted and dumped or used.
Whether or not he is a sociopath or not is really beside the point, the point is that he told you these “wonderful things” and you believed them. In spite of wanting to believe them, you also had some hesitation I think I am hearing as well.
That was your warning, your “gut” if you will, telling you not to trust this stranger that you have already caught in some inconsistencies.
I am glad that yhou are seeing a counselor and that you are working hard to not crumble in despair for this troll to hook you in.
I do suggest that you hang around here and read and read and read on this blog, all the older articles about how to spot a sociopath (or even just a toxic liar) and how to spot those red flags and listen to your “gut”—-you will recover, in the meantime be CAUTIOUS about new people you meet (internet or anywhere) and let people EARN your trust not just talk their way into it. Again, welcome to LF! God bless.
lara, you said” I confronted him about this and he got incredibly defensive and sent me an incredibly long and eloquent email explaining why he added us on Facebook as a “social experiment.” He also called me paranoid and asked me how I could be concerned about Internet predators when I had more than a 1000 friends on my Facebook.’
oh jaysus, this sounds so familiar. i am just starting to uncover some of the things the ppath of my acquaintance did – mostly through flashbacks, and this really describes the process she used.
please do hang around here and read and learn. you are able to articulate what happened and that’s a great step. the more you learn the easier it will be to see what the did, and how he did it.
you said: ‘There’s still a part of me that believes I was not good enough for him and did not meet his standards, which is why he discarded me. ‘ i have a bit of this feeling in me too. i have had to keep it under wraps until i had the time and energy to dela with it. seems that time has come.
tkae good care of yourself. welcome to lovefraud.
best,
one step
Lara;
I think many people don’t understand how painful these short-lasting manipulations can be. As being a victim myself, it came be hard.
It took me over a year to learn some vital things that have really helped:
1) Accept that no matter how charming, sociopathic, manipulative, covert-aggressive and other “toxic” people exist.
2) You will never figure out their motives or be able to answer the question “why.”
3) You are desirable — predators don’t go for the undesirable.
4) Concentrate on their actions, not their words.
5) Dig deep, including all the warning signs you missed.
Wikipedia’s article on Psychological Manipulation is an excellent read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_manipulation
The “Basic Manipulative Strategy of a Psychopath” is particularly valuable:
1: Assessment Phase
Some psychopaths are opportunistic, aggressive predators who will take advantage of almost anyone they meet, while others are more patient, waiting for the perfect, innocent victim to cross their path. In each case, the psychopath is constantly sizing up the potential usefulness of an individual as a source of money, power, sex or influence. Some psychopaths enjoy a challenge while others prey on people who are vulnerable. During the assessment phase, the psychopath is able to determine a potential victim’s weak points and will use those weak points to seduce.
2: Manipulation Phase
Once the psychopath has identified a victim, the manipulation phase begins. During the manipulation phase, a psychopath may create a persona or mask, specifically designed to ’work’ for his or her target. A psychopath will lie to gain the trust of their victim. A psychopath’s lack of empathy and guilt allows them to lie with ease – they don’t see the value of telling the truth unless it will help get them what they want.
As interaction with the victim proceeds, the psychopath carefully assesses the victim’s persona. The victim’s persona gives the psychopath a picture of the traits and characteristics valued in the victim. The victim’s persona may also reveal, to an astute observer, insecurities or weaknesses the victim wishes to minimize or hide from view. As an ardent student of human behavior, the psychopath will then gently test the inner strengths and needs that are part of the victim’s private self and eventually build a personal relationship with the victim.
The persona of the psychopath – the “personality” the victim is bonding with – does not really exist. It was built on lies, carefully woven together to entrap the victim. It is a mask, one of many, custom-made by the psychopath to fit the victim’s particular psychological needs and expectations. The victimization is predatory in nature; it often leads to severe financial, physical or emotional harm for the individual. Healthy, real relationships are built on mutual respect and trust; they are based on sharing honest thoughts and feelings. The mistaken belief that the psychopathic bond has any of these characteristics is the reason it is so successful.
3: Abandonment Phase
The abandonment phase begins when the psychopath decides that their victim is no longer useful. They abandon their victim and move on to someone else. In the case of romantic relationships, a psychopath will usually seal a relationship with their next target before abandoning their current victim. Abandonment can happen quickly and can occur without the current victim knowing that the psychopath was looking for someone new. There will be no apologies for the hurt and pain they cause because psychopaths do not appreciate these emotions.
Lara, I am so sorry you had such an uncomfortable experience, especially after you had resisted this persons advances for some time. It sounds a lot like a date rape, using words instead of drugs. It also sounds to me like this person likes the challange of luring young attractive women into his net, and quickly bores once he has “conquered” them. And the knuckles in the back bit is downright chilling.
I am surprised that your freinds twigged to the Sociopath bit so easily, altho his behavior would fit the pattern. But it is a good thing to learn about their existance and to become aware of some of the red flags, altho preferably not through bitter experience. What makes them so effective at their game is US, and our determination to take people at their word, to expect that there is “good in everyone”, to try and accept strangers with an open and balanced perspective. That is what they use and abuse. Our good hearts and sense of fair play.
Puleese do not doubt your own worthiness over a person who could be so cruel and heartless, just consider yourself lucky that he is far far far away. And whatever he did say that caused you to be attracted to him ( besides the looks) you can rest assured is a well rehearsed “hook”. If you have any doubts, get a freind to engage him, from a safe distance, and see what happens.
Please don’t beat yourself up over this strange, inexplicable event in your life. But learn from it. The sad truth is that one in 25 of us are S/P/N/’s. Spotting them early and knowing how to steer clear may end up being a valuable lesson, despite the pain and confusion it caused you.
I would also take a wager that he is possibly not a “banker” and there were no freinds in Paris. But that’s just me.
Wishing you all the best,
Lara:
Thank you for sharing your experience with us!!!
It took a lot of courage for you to write your experience out.
Please know….IT”S NOT YOU…IT”S HIM!
He was like a heatseeking missile……and you didn’t have the armour to protect yourself!
Keep your head high, educate yourself on Cluster B personality disorders and continue to share your story….
We can onnly change ourselves……
Good luck!
Hi Lara, your story reminded me of the stories in the book The Emotional Rape Syndrome, which I found very useful when I started my healing. The terrible thing which happens in our brain when we find out we’ve been used. It’s a major shock and it takes a lot of work to get over. It’s also such a shock to even discover that these people exist. I can’t believe I got to middle age before I got up close and personal with one of them.
I had the self-doubt that you have too. I thought it was because I wasn’t good enough and it took a long time to get over that. It’s how they make you feel but it’s not real. My spathy/narc would only have been happy with Miss World, and only then until he got bored with her, which he would have done because it’s all about the chase for them. I’m building up my self-esteem and it does get better. Don’t take a disordered person’s opinion as having any meaning.
I wish you well. This site will help you no end. All the best to you.
Wow, behind_blue_eyes, that wikipedia entry is spot on! Thank you for that. It’s exactly right and now I know that the narc I met was a spath for sure.
Lara – thankyou for sharing your story with us – we understand the pain of being discarded as we have all been through it in one way or another.
You sound like a really mature, switched on, empathic young woman and this man targetted you to make you go against your own moral standards – this is common behaviour for psychopaths / sociopaths. They seek to corrupt everything good in their targets to try to make the targets like them in some way – this allows them then to believe that everyone is like them.
Please stick around and read lots here – learning is our best defence against future exploitation and pain. There are some good books too that have really helped me to heal from the destructive relationship I was in:
Women who love psychopaths by Sandra Brown and Liane Leedom – can;t recommend this one highly enough – it outlines the characteristics of both the abuser and the victim and spells out the process by which we are won over ie brainwashing and being placed under a ‘spell’ of sorts.
The sociopath next door by Martha Stout – excellent read that shows how ‘normal’ they can appear at first glance.
Stalking the Soul – excellent analysis of emotional abuse tactics and how they literally destroy the victim.
There is also lots available online – google narcissism, sociopathy or psychopathy and you will find plenty. Symptoms of narcissism are quite similar to sociopathy. Reading lots helped me to understand what happened and that it wasn’t my fault. It sounds like you are turning the situation over and over in your mind – this is common in the aftermath of these encounters – we try to make sense of something that makes no sense.
You have suffered a profound betrayal and it causes you to question everything you believed about the world, yourself and other people- it shakes your foundations to the core and is a difficult process of development to go through. Please be good to yourself during this time. Writing it all out in detail may also help you when you are ready to undertake this work. I am doing this at the moment and have been for months little by little as I can manage to face it – it really helps me to integrate the experience into my life history and make sense of it.
Welcome to Lovefraud and sorry you are here! You will find a supportive community here of people who understand what you have gone through and will be able to relate to the feelings and thoughts that come up as you heal from this.
Lara, thank you for your story. You sound like a very smart young women. You have sadly been taken for a ride but dont get down on yourself, it had happened to the best of us!
The hardest thing is overcoming the confusion. You had the red flags right from the start but these people as so good and so convincing you did nothing wrong and you are good enough. He wouldn’t have taken no for an answer, he wanted you, the more you pulled back the more he wanted to play the game. It is about the game, it is what thrills them and drives them.
I am sorry that you met one and I wish you all the very best… Our thoughts and understanding are with you 🙂
Dear Lara,
Thank you so much for sharing your story. This is a HUGE happening on these social networks. Amongst our family and friends predators ARE lurking. Especially targeted are the college/highschool students but thats not to say they also target many many others.
I have a FB account to keep in touch with my out of state family, my old schoolmates and to monitor my daughters :). They werent allowed a FB page unless they allowed me to be on it! I have disciplined them or brought to their attention “potential unsafe choices” they have made –ie. listing their telephone number, or joining a group that teens formed online that was inapropriate but funny or popular so they “joined” or just innocent things they feel would not be a problem until I enlighten, educate, inform them and then they “get it” or say wow, i never thought of it that way. Its been a great tool for me to teach them how to protect themselves or rather “give thought” to their choices and potential outcomes..etc.
I am going to take this opportunity to view your story as if it were my eldest daughter. And while I join every single poster who has shared with you the fact that this man WAS a predator and he conned you and manipulated you and emotionally abused you and really did a number on probably so many good kind caring SMART beautiful INNOCENT women, it is proof positive of how whether its online on phone or in person — they specialize in infiltrating minds, saying all the right things, things we want to hear, they are persistent, calls, texts, attention, invasive, sexual pressure/questions/intent… etc. they get us to eventually drop our guard and BELIEVE THEM, or say just enough to get us curious to partake.
I congratulate you on not going to Munich, Im sure many a woman has, which in fact makes it easier on him not to have to travel, and just dump them immediately after they have sex with him and send them away. You were a bit more challenging (thus him being annoyed that he had to travel — but still the outcome was the same — because its a sick game for them.
Before I read your story, just this week I logged on to my FB account and for the first time there was a friend request from a person I did not recognize or know (red flag for me) Instinctively I went to his page and it said we had 3 mutual friends (green flag for me) – but they were friends from HIGHSCHOOL that even in highschool I was never close to (redflag for me) plus I just had a weird feeling about it and I didnt accept! 10 years ago I probably would not have thought twice about it, but now that I have experienced unhealthy toxic people, I am way more self-aware of making choices that mostly benefit me, protect me and keep me on a healthy path.
Things I would say to my own daughter after possibly experiencing what you did. Warning: these may be unpopular comments, or received by some here as possible “blame” — but I will say in advance — its furthest from my truth – this isnt about blame – its about LEARNING about THEM and even more impt. about OURSELVES and OUR RIGHT TO OUR CHOICES AND BEING INFORMED, KNOWLEDGE = pOWER! This is how I would educate/ bring awareness and allow my daughter to make choices to protect herself or make changes going forward in her life.
1. take your friends and families advice very seriously when it comes to their assessment of a potential partner/relationship. They know you and care about you and love you — sometimes they see things we cannot.
2. While saying NO to flying out to Munich to meet a total stranger was a very good choice — choosing to meet in paris is no different, except it was more on your terms… but still it was agreeing to meet a stranger in a potentially isolating place. Who knows what could have been. There is nothing wrong with saying, if you would like to meet me you will have to come meet me in my hometown with my family and friends. If the answer is no – then this is not someone to pursue getting to know.
3. If at anytime ANYTHING FEELS OLD, MAKES YOU CONFUSED, or you cant grasp or understand… ie. why he would pursue someone so much younger online…why he would become sexual so quickly and make you uncomfortable…weird behaviors… odd comments… THESE ARE ALL RED FLAGS – you were wise to question so many things, but once you get answers you must ACT and END the CONTACT.
4. Life has a way of bringing goodness and good people into our lives. They are people who just flow so nicely in our lives, respecting us, listening to us consistently treating us with respect and kindness and understanding. We just have no red flags or bad internal feelings, perhaps a disagreement but it is sought to be resolved by both parties not just one. And life has a way of bringing challenges and BAD people into our lives. They arrive in unexpected ways, but interesting ways or exciting ways — yet they always come with an air of “somethings just not right – or peak our curiosity more than “others” or push our boundaries or come on very strong — its up to us to become educated and aware and proceed ahead in our lives KNOWING AND ACCEpTING NOT EVERYONE IS LIKE US, OR NOT EVERYONE HAS GOOD INTENTIONS.
5. Rely on ACTIONS. Decide based upon ACTIONS. Do not just listen to peoples words. Sociopaths just seem to know how to get into our psyche if WE LET THEM. Take things SLOW. Get to know ON YOUR TERMS. Do not be pressured to do this or say that or meet. If there is any pressure at all – ITS NOT RIGHT.
6. This has NOTHING to do with beauty or not living up to his standard. It might even be that your insistence on not going to Munich and not giving in right away in the hotel room, were signs that you WANTED TO pROTECT and RESpECT yourself and make healthy choices for yourself — you were not a pushover like he seeks out. You may have saved yourself so much more by not being a totally “EASY” target… he may have continued USING AND ABUSING you if you made it really easy for him!!! But you made it clear that you DO respect yourself and he doesnt really go for women who respect themselves and put themselves first!!! SO GOOD FOR YOU!!!
7. people have to EARN your trust. They cant just show up in your life and from day one you trust them. They have to EARN it. By respecting you, by keeping their word, by never treating you badly or making up excuses. You are ENTITLED to listen to your inner guidelines and TRUST yourself first – NOT THEM/OTHERS.
8. Its what they do (for a sick living) that ultimately puts us at a disadvantage from the start. But its also the CHOICES we make that can make the difference between pursuing and getting them the heck out of our lives/our worlds. They cant do what they do if we dont let them. Its very very very hard to know what to do when we have never been made aware about these people or when weve never had any experience with them, we dont have the tools to deal with them. Until after our first encounter — we all strive to make sure it never happens again. Could it? Anything is possible. But we reduce the risk/chances when we become self-aware and more aware about all the different kinds of people and how they operate in the world. WE CANT CHANGE WHAT THEY DO, BUT WE CAN CHANGE HOW WE pROTECT OURSELVES.
Im glad you have shared your story. Thank you. My two teenage daughters will be reading your story tonight. It will change their lives FOR THE BETTER, and you having shared your story here and reading the many articles and responses and also reading books (look at LF’s bookstore) WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOR THE BETTER TOO! Im sorry you had to experience a toxic unhealthy human being – we learn and grow and change — they dont.
Lara,
A sociopath does not care about the wreckage that they cause in others’ lives. Thankfully, you will never have to see this jerk ever again. If anyone has a problem, it’s him, the sociopath. He is SICK. When I read your story, I was so glad to know that you got away from him (that you are safe), not knowing what this man is capable of, what his actual history includes. Always listen to your gut, having learned that this is what I must do too. Take care, being so thankful that you will be okay.