Editor’s note: Lovefraud received this e-mail from a reader whom we’ll call “Lara.”
About three months ago, I met a 34-year-old German banker from Munich online (he added me on Facebook), after being very hesitant to speak to him, I gave into his persistence and we started a whirlwind romance over the phone for two months. He asked me to meet him in Paris and I did a few weeks ago, only to be dumped the day after we had sex together. I have been asking myself for answers but it was only recently that my friend brought to my attention that Y (German banker) exhibited the key traits of a sociopath.
Y added me randomly on Facebook and we had one mutual friend (A fellow Korean Uni student at my university in New York). I messaged him asking if we had met, only for him to say that he “met another Lara in NY who looks like me.” I believed him but then later found out he also added my friend and a few other girls (some of them my friends) randomly on Facebook. I thought this was very weird behaviour as I do not understand why a grown man would add random younger girls on his Facebook all of whom he does not know.
After further investigation, I found out he was messaging a few of these girls too asking to “speak on the phone as he was curious about their voice,” which is exactly what he said to me. I found this very unnerving—a grown man messaging a plethora of younger girls on the Internet asking to “hear their voice on the phone.” I confronted him about this and he got incredibly defensive and sent me an incredibly long and eloquent email explaining why he added us on Facebook as a “social experiment.” He also called me paranoid and asked me how I could be concerned about Internet predators when I had more than a 1000 friends on my Facebook.
Talked on the phone
After saying no many times to a phone conversation, my curiosity took over me and one day I agreed to a brief conversation. I thought that if he turned out to be a creep, I would just block his number on my phone. Our phone conversation turned out to be alright—he was a decent and pleasant guy. However, he continued to call me every single day from then on, along with numerous text messaging.
Soon, he told me he had grown incredibly fond of me and was using affectionate terms like “baby.” I asked him why he was interested in me, as I am a 21-year-old university student in New York, who he has never met before. He told me I underestimated myself and that he liked me because I am “well traveled, educated and down to earth.” I just could not grasp how a 30+ year old banker from Munich with good looks would stoop so low as to find a romantic interest with much younger women on the Internet.
Intimate questions
Soon after we started talking on the phone, he started to be very inappropriate with me, asking personal and intimate questions. He knew I was very uncomfortable with this but he still persisted. He would tell me to “think of falling asleep in his arms,” “our kiss,” and then he would ask me to “fantasize having sex with him.”
I don’t know how he found the confidence to talk to me in this manner, as I never reciprocated his affection or romantic interest. I was uncomfortable, so I messaged a friend of his, which I found through his Facebook list, and asked her whether I should trust him. She responded immediately with glowing reviews about Y, saying she was good friends with him when he lived in London and that he was incredibly charming, successful, social and that a lot of women fancied him. However, despite all his inappropriate behaviour, I was so completely charmed by his looks, intelligence and wit that my judgment was practically impaired.
Fly to meet him
A few weeks after this, Y asked me when my next university break was, as he wanted to see me. I had one coming up in a month, in middle March. He insisted that I fly to Munich to see him. I told him “absolutely not.” I would never stoop so low as to fly to Munich to stay with a stranger I have never met before (as a girl I need to maintain a level of dignity and self-respect). He was very persistent and said I could stay with him and that we would drive to the mountains and the outskirts of Munich to ski. I told him I would not do that, and if he really wanted to see me, he could come to New York. He told me he could not take time off work to fly to New York and so I had to go to Munich.
Anyway, I ended up deciding to go to London to visit my friends during my university break. I told him he could come to London to see me but he was not satisfied with that as “London is not a romantic city and I would be around all my friends and not spend time with him.” He said he was willing to compromise and that we should spend a “romantic weekend in paris—just him and I.”
I was very hesitant and all my close girlfriends told me not to do it, as they felt he was trying to isolate me to a place where I do not know people or speak the language. However at this point I had already fallen for him so I agreed to it. I told him I wanted to have my separate room from him but he was completely and utterly adamant that we share a hotel room together. During this point of our phone conversations, he was already telling me that he felt like he could fall in love with me, that he had told his mother about me and that I should move to Munich next year after I graduate from Uni. I couldn’t help but believe and fall for his words.
Going to Paris
Two weeks before Paris, Y and I had started talking considerably less as his company was working on a major buy-out and I was occupied with exams. He said it was good for our relationship, as it would make us miss each other more. However, as days went by, he completely stopped texting me or calling me. Before Paris, we spoke once on the phone and it was a very brief conversation ”¦ he asked me about my week and I told him “it was very stressful along with hormonal problems due to my period.” He responded by saying, “Wow perfect timing that your period is over in time for Paris.” I was very disturbed by his comment—out of everything I told him about my stressful week, he was only concerned and delighted to know that I had just ended my period in time for Paris. I started to question what exactly he wants from me. All our phone conversations were heavily intimate where he would try dig hard to get intimate information about me, and he would force me to say things to him that I was not comfortable with.
I flew to London three Thursdays ago on a red eye and then took the Eurostar to Paris. Cut to the chase, when I first saw Y opening the hotel door for him, I thought he was incredibly good looking and tall in person. Three minutes into our meeting, he pretty much threw me on the bed and tried to undress me. I told him to stop it as I was uncomfortable and that I wanted to spend time talking to him first. He seemed visibly annoyed and agreed to go have a drink with me near the Trocodero. During our drink he was very cold, distant and aloof. He was NOT affectionate with me at all.
We went back to the hotel room and I did sleep with him and then the next day at brunch in Paris, he told me “it was over and that he could not see a future with me as I was too young for him.” I was so stunned and confused. Where did this sudden realisation come about? Months after telling me he was completely “obsessed” with me? He said that he became “rational and decided it would never work for him.”
Kicked me out
I started acting irrationally and even told him that it was unfair that he did not give us a chance and that he made me feel so vulnerable by coming all the way to Paris only to sleep with him and get dumped. He became incredibly defensive and angry and told me to go back to London that same night. I was resistant as I was so confused but he pretty much kicked me out and booked me a train ticket.
During the painful last few hours with him, he acted like a complete chauvinist—making me feel bad that he wasted his weekend coming to Paris and that he could have been so many other things in Munich. He started calling his Paris friends on his mobile phone while I was next to him asking if they would have “dinner with him that night,” and while we were walking back to the hotel, he even used his knuckles and pushed me from behind as he complained that “I was walking too slowly.” He even said I should be grateful as he has so many “women on Facebook who are interested in connecting with him.” It is almost like he forgot that HE was the one who connected with me on Facebook and pursued me RELENTLESSLY.
Y did not even send me off to the train station—he asked me to drop him off at Gallerie Lafayette (a shopping mall) because it was on the way to Gare Du Nord (the train station). During this whole time, I was still so numb and confused about the situation that I did not even act disappointed or hurt by him. I even suggested we try to stay friends.
Numb and confused
I went back to London that Saturday night completely numb, confused and shocked by the situation. I gave my heart to this stranger I met on Facebook who convinced me that he was obsessed and was falling in love with me—only to fly to Paris and be used for sex and dumped the next day.
It has been a few weeks since the situation occurred and I have become more rational and objective. My friends are all very disgusted by Y’s behaviour and have been trying to let me realise that what he did was “unkind and unacceptable” and that he was basically an “Internet predator casting a wide net for young girls on Facebook.” I still have trouble seeing it that way, as I keep remembering the person I spoke to on the phone for months. I want to believe that everything he said to me was real.
However, the anger now has set in a little and I cannot believe he did that to me. We have not spoken since. Many times I feel like talking to him as I want answers—but I know this is wrong. I recently found out that Y asked another girl out on a date (one that he also added randomly on Facebook). Initially I was enraged and jealous that he moved on so fast. However, my friends try to tell me that as a sociopath, he has basically found his “next victim.”
There’s still a part of me that believes I was not good enough for him and did not meet his standards, which is why he discarded me. I also feel that perhaps I “deceived” him on Facebook, because he felt I was not as pretty in real life as I was online. I am trying to rid myself of those thoughts that are only self-destructive. I am taking it day by day ”¦ seeing a counselor. I cannot let this situation make me crumble in despair for it will be letting him win. I need to become stronger from this and move on with my life knowing that I learnt an invaluable lesson.
Lara, you are sticking your hand in the fire by allowing contact to continue with this person. They can feign any emotion they so choose. He did not attack back, most likely, because his game is being somewhat exposed. He will back off, lay low, feign the correct emotions till he gets your guard down again. Then he will move on the offensive. He is also somewhat afraid of seeing himself, so he will ‘chill’ the toxic behavior till he can get you and himself back into the illusion. You don’t need to try and ‘figure’ him out…..you need to GET out. Chalk this up to the school of hard knocks and salvage yourself by not allowing this double minded person to inflict any more of his twisted behavior on you. He has deep seated issues that have nothing to do with you, so don’t let him project them onto you. Don’t waste any time or energy trying to understand him……throw that fish back into his cesspool.
ErinBrock: Thanks! Great to see you too! I am doing ok, how about you? Stomach shot from all the years of stress, but am doing great otherwise! When the drama starts to fire up around me……exit, stage left. 😛
Hugs and love back!
Twice Betrayed: Don’t worry Y has no intention of getting back with me. He is completely over me. The only reason why he contacted me is 1. To get the email of this other girl he added randomly on facebook (who messaged a few of his friends to tell them he is a creep), 2. To return my jacket 3. To defend himself and attack me when I sent him the articles of sociopath characteristics (even though he asked me to send it).
I think I wanted contact more than him because I am masochist like that… Yes perhaps he knew he was being exposed and he got frightened by reality. So he basically said “we agree to disagree..I see why you were hurt by what happened in Paris but it was not my intention to hurt you but I also see the situation very differently from you…’.. Despite those words, I could sense some trepidation and some awareness that he knows what he did was wrong. I was very explicit in my email detailing all the horrible things he did to me from day 1 when he called me on the phone before we met, til the day he sent me packing in Paris and asked me to go back to London.
Larisa,
I understand your need to find out what “bit” you. Was the skunk rabid or not? Even if it was not rabid, why did it bite me when I minding my own business, while it approached me?
We all have that need for answers.
I get what people are telling you. We don’t get answers from sociopaths, or from toxic people. Cause they do no wrong.
Yet, we still want an answer. We want to close this situation. But, we can’t. I too have kept the contact going in hopes of getting answers. Or in hopes of being validated. It just wasted more of my time.
I got long emails replied to my long emails. His emails blamed me for everything. It turned into a email war. I never got my answers, and never was validated.
Your guy is a troubled soul. No man from a healthy minded family would lure a young woman out to Paris JUST to tear her clothing off. That is SICK!
He could have found that at a local pub. He could have paid a prostitute. He could have posted on sex dating site on internet. But, no. He wants a sweet naive young woman to travel a distance to his spider web. That is a sign of a deeply disturbed mind.
He is in love with his seduction and control over young women.
I hope you find other interests to fill your time. You are too young to let this fill up your life. What will be your life when your 40?
That’s the hot debate..he says it was more than sex..he says if he wanted just sex he could have just found it in Munich..he said there was no way he would travel across the continent just to have a one night stand with me..he says that obviously there was an emotional connection too.. His argument is this “why would I talk to you on the phone for an hour every day for 2 months..just so I can fly to Paris for the weekend to have sex with you? Come on that’s ridiculous!’… I see where he is coming from…I understand although sex was in the equation..there was more to it than that..whatever (more to it) was..it was still a bit twisted and unhealthy.
My therapist seems to agree with him. She doesn’t think it was just about sex. Whatever it was…he became obsessed with me, idealized me, fantasized about me and when he was presented the real picture, he got scared.
Hi lara. can I have a go at what I hear from him?
*he says: “it was more than sex”
It wasnt more in the way YOU may think…like deeper emotional connection…it was more in that it was more fun, more amusing, more exciting for HIM to ‘GET YOU’ to fly across the world for sex with him. It makes him feel powerful over another. fun fun fun.
*he said “there was no way he would travel across the continent just to have a one night stand with me..he says that obviously there was an emotional connection too.. ”
Paris is a hop from Munich (1hr 45 mins and you can fly for around £40.00 with some airlines), and he had ‘other options’ there anyway and weighing it up it seemed like he was still onto a winner, even if he was a little inconvenienced… no other options in london maybe (a smaller hop of 1hr 40 mins and you can fly for around £40.00 with some airlines)… so that would be a bridge too far for this ’emotional attachment’.(pft!)
And the whole Paris is more romantic?? He only wanted sex. That’s what he did. Paris/London what’s the diff?….apart from Paris being more convenient for HIM (with the other options) and that you would be more isolated from friends.
*He said:why would I talk to you on the phone for an hour every day for 2 months..just so I can fly to Paris for the weekend to have sex with you? Come on that’s ridiculous!'(yes it is you MAD MAN…but it’s what YOU did!)
This is called GROOMING. (I can only find links to child grooming – but the same rules of behaviour apply http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_grooming)
‘he became obsessed with me, idealized me, fantasized about me and when he was presented the real picture, he got scared.’ No, he became obsessed with having you, the power HE feels at being puppet master(you could have been ANYONE to him). I think once he had you he was DONE…. I think that’s how you felt initially wasnt it? DONT second guess yourself you were right.
*Adj. 1.idealized – exalted to an ideal perfection or excellence
idealised
perfect – being complete of its kind and without defect or blemish; “a perfect circle”; “a perfect reproduction”; “perfect happiness”; “perfect manners”; “a perfect specimen”; “a perfect day”
The only ideal in his mind- was that you might be an ideal TARGET, not woman, wife, partner, person….
Please stop corresponding with this creature, he is continuing to groom you, and warm/ warp your thinking towards him. If it suites you to conclude he is just mixed up and sacred by the reality of a woman then fine, but you dont want to be involved with someone like this either way do you?
xxxx
The other thing I wanted to say is that when we realise we are dealing with a ‘not normal’ relationship like this – we have A LOT of questions! COME HERE TO ASK THEM not to him.x
Dear Lara,
In your own words :
“I met him on Facebook, was used for sex and dumped the next day”
This is what happened, this is your story, this is his truth, this is what you need to focus on. And never forget the reality of your story:
” He became incredibly defensive and angry and told me to go back to London that same night. I was resistant as I was so confused but he pretty much kicked me out and booked me a train ticket.
During the painful last few hours with him, he acted like a complete chauvinist—making me feel bad that he wasted his weekend coming to Paris and that he could have been so many other things in Munich. He started calling his Paris friends on his mobile phone while I was next to him asking if they would have “dinner with him that night,” and while we were walking back to the hotel, he even used his knuckles and pushed me from behind as he complained that “I was walking too slowly.” He even said I should be grateful as he has so many “women on Facebook who are interested in connecting with him.”
Y did not even send me off to the train station—he asked me to drop him off at Gallerie Lafayette (a shopping mall) because it was on the way to Gare Du Nord (the train station).
My friends are all very disgusted by Y’s behaviour and have been trying to let me realise that what he did was “unkind and unacceptable” and that he was basically an “Internet predator casting a wide net for young girls on Facebook.”
I still have trouble seeing it that way, as I keep remembering the person I spoke to on the phone for months. I want to believe that everything he said to me was real.
LARA — we all want to believe everything they SAID in the beginning was REAL… but we MUST, YOU MUST BELEIVE THE REALITY OF WHAT happened – his ACTIONS with you. Not the months and months of words (lies, grooming, setting you to agree to be a sexual hit)…please understand they are just WORDS he uses to twist and manipulate you now… youve been so hurt and shocked that to make it better you just want to believe and yearn for some reasonable explanation — so if he show signs of listening, remorse, understanding (Which he isnt) but just the fact he is calling and listening is ENOUGH for you to try to rationalize it — but for so many of us — we fell again and again for the mindgames and we were right back being used and abused.
BLUESKIES is so right with the way she has broken it down. Stop. Slow down. Take a deep breath. Absorb the facts. Re-absorb the facts. Fight the desire to make sense out of something that was senseless except to a toxic man. Try to focus on what really happened – stop reverting to the fantasy of his words (past and present) — you were right, your friends were right, and the LF posters are right in their assessment of him. Its a sick game, and pull toward him — step back and regain your strength and direction.
Did you give this man your address to return your clothing item? He is a strange person in my opinion. SCARY strange… odd….wake up from the fantasy before you find yourself numb and confused again.
This is not about you. This isnt about you not being good enough for him, or if you did things differently — the outcome would be the same. The truth is what you knew it be and shared with us… the truth is you met him on Facebook and were used for sex and dumped the next day.
He needed to get this other girls email because his reputation is at stake. And after he got it — you didnt hear from him. Instead you wrote him a long email — to which he had to call you and defend himself again.
Its very difficult to be strong enough and brave enough to say to yourself – wow I really allowed myself to get involved with a toxic bad person, but I had no idea at the time. And its even harder to accept after the involvement I still want there to be some explanation, something that makes it all make sense, answers, understanding…but you already have all the answers. From this point on its just him defending, lying, pretending, acting to keep the peace or at best to get you to agree to sex again. Ewwwwwwwwwww. Sick. sick. A sick man.
Stay away. Get a new therapist. Did your therapist actually READ your story??
Blueskies and Learning – powerful advice! And, Learning is 100% spot-on about ruminating on the months leading up to the episode. None of it was real, Lara, and this guy has probably been doing this very same thing for YEARS and getting away with it. It is possible (and, quite likely) that this guy had done exactly the same thing to someone else a couple of weeks before your own experience. Sadly, you are not the first person to have had this type of experience, nor will you be the last.
Just yesterday, Judge Judy heard a case where a 33 y/o Thai woman “met” a man on Craigslist, communicated with him for 3 days, and was convinced into moving from one end of the country to the other to “start a new life” with him. She lost her job, her home, and a good bit of cash. After using her for about 3 weeks, he dumped her in a place where she had no friends, no family, no network of safety, and ran off with her money! YES, these Things can be very convincing, and it’s up to each human being to learn (even if it’s the hard way) how to recognize danger and run from it.
I would further suggest that his retention of anthing belonging to you is a trophy – a TROPHY – just like serial killers tend to keep some personal item that belonged to their victims, so do serial rapists. LET IT GO! No material object is worth putting your physical/emotional safety at risk. If he has your street address, is there any way that you can relocate for a time?
HIRE A NEW THERAPIST!!!! You are paying for the therapist’s services and expertise, and they are on YOUR payroll. There are referral services that will direct you to therapists who are familiar with sexual abuse.
Brightest blessings.
Lara100:
Regarding the clothing you left with Y in Paris, you said he called and wanted to return it.
I would definitely let him return it…especially if it’s something that you love.
I don’t think he’s sociopathically dangerous.
He’s just a major player.
If he were going to physically hurt you, he would have already done it when he had you isolated in Paris.
You told Twice Betrayed that Y is completely over you, and has no intention of getting back with you.
Plus, there is an OCEAN that separates the two of you.
So, I don’t think there is anything to be afraid of.
If you are uncomfortable giving him your home address, then have him ship the clothing to a work address, or somewhere at the UNI.
But, I would definitely want my clothing back.
Sorry if I sound superficial, but clothing is expensive, and the economy is tight right now.
I love clothes and accessories.
So, if I were you, I would want my clothing returned.