Editor’s note: Lovefraud received this e-mail from a reader whom we’ll call “Lara.”
About three months ago, I met a 34-year-old German banker from Munich online (he added me on Facebook), after being very hesitant to speak to him, I gave into his persistence and we started a whirlwind romance over the phone for two months. He asked me to meet him in Paris and I did a few weeks ago, only to be dumped the day after we had sex together. I have been asking myself for answers but it was only recently that my friend brought to my attention that Y (German banker) exhibited the key traits of a sociopath.
Y added me randomly on Facebook and we had one mutual friend (A fellow Korean Uni student at my university in New York). I messaged him asking if we had met, only for him to say that he “met another Lara in NY who looks like me.” I believed him but then later found out he also added my friend and a few other girls (some of them my friends) randomly on Facebook. I thought this was very weird behaviour as I do not understand why a grown man would add random younger girls on his Facebook all of whom he does not know.
After further investigation, I found out he was messaging a few of these girls too asking to “speak on the phone as he was curious about their voice,” which is exactly what he said to me. I found this very unnerving—a grown man messaging a plethora of younger girls on the Internet asking to “hear their voice on the phone.” I confronted him about this and he got incredibly defensive and sent me an incredibly long and eloquent email explaining why he added us on Facebook as a “social experiment.” He also called me paranoid and asked me how I could be concerned about Internet predators when I had more than a 1000 friends on my Facebook.
Talked on the phone
After saying no many times to a phone conversation, my curiosity took over me and one day I agreed to a brief conversation. I thought that if he turned out to be a creep, I would just block his number on my phone. Our phone conversation turned out to be alright—he was a decent and pleasant guy. However, he continued to call me every single day from then on, along with numerous text messaging.
Soon, he told me he had grown incredibly fond of me and was using affectionate terms like “baby.” I asked him why he was interested in me, as I am a 21-year-old university student in New York, who he has never met before. He told me I underestimated myself and that he liked me because I am “well traveled, educated and down to earth.” I just could not grasp how a 30+ year old banker from Munich with good looks would stoop so low as to find a romantic interest with much younger women on the Internet.
Intimate questions
Soon after we started talking on the phone, he started to be very inappropriate with me, asking personal and intimate questions. He knew I was very uncomfortable with this but he still persisted. He would tell me to “think of falling asleep in his arms,” “our kiss,” and then he would ask me to “fantasize having sex with him.”
I don’t know how he found the confidence to talk to me in this manner, as I never reciprocated his affection or romantic interest. I was uncomfortable, so I messaged a friend of his, which I found through his Facebook list, and asked her whether I should trust him. She responded immediately with glowing reviews about Y, saying she was good friends with him when he lived in London and that he was incredibly charming, successful, social and that a lot of women fancied him. However, despite all his inappropriate behaviour, I was so completely charmed by his looks, intelligence and wit that my judgment was practically impaired.
Fly to meet him
A few weeks after this, Y asked me when my next university break was, as he wanted to see me. I had one coming up in a month, in middle March. He insisted that I fly to Munich to see him. I told him “absolutely not.” I would never stoop so low as to fly to Munich to stay with a stranger I have never met before (as a girl I need to maintain a level of dignity and self-respect). He was very persistent and said I could stay with him and that we would drive to the mountains and the outskirts of Munich to ski. I told him I would not do that, and if he really wanted to see me, he could come to New York. He told me he could not take time off work to fly to New York and so I had to go to Munich.
Anyway, I ended up deciding to go to London to visit my friends during my university break. I told him he could come to London to see me but he was not satisfied with that as “London is not a romantic city and I would be around all my friends and not spend time with him.” He said he was willing to compromise and that we should spend a “romantic weekend in paris—just him and I.”
I was very hesitant and all my close girlfriends told me not to do it, as they felt he was trying to isolate me to a place where I do not know people or speak the language. However at this point I had already fallen for him so I agreed to it. I told him I wanted to have my separate room from him but he was completely and utterly adamant that we share a hotel room together. During this point of our phone conversations, he was already telling me that he felt like he could fall in love with me, that he had told his mother about me and that I should move to Munich next year after I graduate from Uni. I couldn’t help but believe and fall for his words.
Going to Paris
Two weeks before Paris, Y and I had started talking considerably less as his company was working on a major buy-out and I was occupied with exams. He said it was good for our relationship, as it would make us miss each other more. However, as days went by, he completely stopped texting me or calling me. Before Paris, we spoke once on the phone and it was a very brief conversation ”¦ he asked me about my week and I told him “it was very stressful along with hormonal problems due to my period.” He responded by saying, “Wow perfect timing that your period is over in time for Paris.” I was very disturbed by his comment—out of everything I told him about my stressful week, he was only concerned and delighted to know that I had just ended my period in time for Paris. I started to question what exactly he wants from me. All our phone conversations were heavily intimate where he would try dig hard to get intimate information about me, and he would force me to say things to him that I was not comfortable with.
I flew to London three Thursdays ago on a red eye and then took the Eurostar to Paris. Cut to the chase, when I first saw Y opening the hotel door for him, I thought he was incredibly good looking and tall in person. Three minutes into our meeting, he pretty much threw me on the bed and tried to undress me. I told him to stop it as I was uncomfortable and that I wanted to spend time talking to him first. He seemed visibly annoyed and agreed to go have a drink with me near the Trocodero. During our drink he was very cold, distant and aloof. He was NOT affectionate with me at all.
We went back to the hotel room and I did sleep with him and then the next day at brunch in Paris, he told me “it was over and that he could not see a future with me as I was too young for him.” I was so stunned and confused. Where did this sudden realisation come about? Months after telling me he was completely “obsessed” with me? He said that he became “rational and decided it would never work for him.”
Kicked me out
I started acting irrationally and even told him that it was unfair that he did not give us a chance and that he made me feel so vulnerable by coming all the way to Paris only to sleep with him and get dumped. He became incredibly defensive and angry and told me to go back to London that same night. I was resistant as I was so confused but he pretty much kicked me out and booked me a train ticket.
During the painful last few hours with him, he acted like a complete chauvinist—making me feel bad that he wasted his weekend coming to Paris and that he could have been so many other things in Munich. He started calling his Paris friends on his mobile phone while I was next to him asking if they would have “dinner with him that night,” and while we were walking back to the hotel, he even used his knuckles and pushed me from behind as he complained that “I was walking too slowly.” He even said I should be grateful as he has so many “women on Facebook who are interested in connecting with him.” It is almost like he forgot that HE was the one who connected with me on Facebook and pursued me RELENTLESSLY.
Y did not even send me off to the train station—he asked me to drop him off at Gallerie Lafayette (a shopping mall) because it was on the way to Gare Du Nord (the train station). During this whole time, I was still so numb and confused about the situation that I did not even act disappointed or hurt by him. I even suggested we try to stay friends.
Numb and confused
I went back to London that Saturday night completely numb, confused and shocked by the situation. I gave my heart to this stranger I met on Facebook who convinced me that he was obsessed and was falling in love with me—only to fly to Paris and be used for sex and dumped the next day.
It has been a few weeks since the situation occurred and I have become more rational and objective. My friends are all very disgusted by Y’s behaviour and have been trying to let me realise that what he did was “unkind and unacceptable” and that he was basically an “Internet predator casting a wide net for young girls on Facebook.” I still have trouble seeing it that way, as I keep remembering the person I spoke to on the phone for months. I want to believe that everything he said to me was real.
However, the anger now has set in a little and I cannot believe he did that to me. We have not spoken since. Many times I feel like talking to him as I want answers—but I know this is wrong. I recently found out that Y asked another girl out on a date (one that he also added randomly on Facebook). Initially I was enraged and jealous that he moved on so fast. However, my friends try to tell me that as a sociopath, he has basically found his “next victim.”
There’s still a part of me that believes I was not good enough for him and did not meet his standards, which is why he discarded me. I also feel that perhaps I “deceived” him on Facebook, because he felt I was not as pretty in real life as I was online. I am trying to rid myself of those thoughts that are only self-destructive. I am taking it day by day ”¦ seeing a counselor. I cannot let this situation make me crumble in despair for it will be letting him win. I need to become stronger from this and move on with my life knowing that I learnt an invaluable lesson.
Lara –
What I find most interesting – is that you reached out for help from others very quickly. Its a wonderful thing you did.
Most times, it isnt until the 5th, 15th, 50th or 500th interaction, meeting, disagreement, feeling all alone and dazed and confused …that someone will reach out for help/advice… at long last.
I consider you very lucky. Im not sure you consider yourself very lucky, or if you are too caught up in the self-doubt, self-blame.
If you love yourself enough and see your value and worth then you wont go back to any interactions with him. Just because he saw your self value and worth as very little (BASED UPON HOW HE TREATED YOU AND CONTINUES TO).. .DOESNT MEAN YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE HIM AND AGREE WITH HIM AND GO ALONG WITH HIS ASSESSMENT OF THE SITUATION.
Believe in yourself. You were right about him from the beginning. The person you need to get to know and be able to protect and grow and learn about is yourself. Not this JERK.
Witsend: “Generally speaking what happens in these types of encountors is that after being discarded so abruptly we become obsessed with them.” -Yes..this is the sick and twisted truth. Are we all masochists or is just me? The very fact that he discarded me made me obsessed with him..For months when we spoke on the phone I found him very boring with little personality and a bad sense of humor. However, when he discarded me, I could safely say that I wanted him back-I wanted to be with him, marry him, spend the rest of my life with him.
Learning: All your advice has helped me tremendously. Thanks so MUCH. My Mother does not see things this way. I did have a difficult childhood: my parents had a very acrimonious divorce when I was 10 and my father was never really around. I do attribute my insecurity/masochism and attraction to controlling men to my childhood. My mother thinks I am being dramatic and that I make excuses for myself.
I was doing so well before he called me two weeks ago to ask for that email. When they say to cut off contact-IT REALLY WORKS. Hearing his voice again just brought back the pain and also made me pine for him. I cannot begin to count all the days after he called that I would repeatedly check my phone (especially 5pm which is when he used to call me), waiting for his phone call, checking my missed calls. I am glad we ended things peacefully yesterday (we both decided to distance ourselves from each other). I cannot be manipulated anymore…it was a sick mind game (even if done unintentionally on his part). The worst part was when he asked me if I had been with anyone else since Paris and I said ‘no’, and for him to say ‘yup i slept with my ex girlfriend’. That statement really hurt me even though I should not care who he is sleeping with. He does not owe me anything.
The first thought that penetrates my heart when I wake up every morning is ‘why was I not good enough for him? What was different about me than the Russian girl he was in a relationship with for 2 and a half yrs in London? That she went to Oxford and I didn’t?’- This is the worst worst part for me. My self esteem has been seriously hurt. Every time someone compliments me on being photogenic, I feel incredibly vulnerable, thinking that ‘Perhaps I deceived Y”. No matter how many people tell me how beautiful of a girl I am, I still feel this way.
Learning: “What I find most interesting ”“ is that you reached out for help from others very quickly. Its a wonderful thing you did.Most times, it isnt until the 5th, 15th, 50th or 500th interaction, meeting, disagreement, feeling all alone and dazed and confused ”that someone will reach out for help/advice” at long last.”- This is true. This has always been something about my personality that people find unique. I am not afraid to be openly vulnerable to people. I am honest about my insecurities, my worries and my flaws. I have no problem laying it all out in the open because I think that’s what makes me HUMAN. To hell with pride, keeping things in only suppresses it and makes it grow inside. This is what differs me greatly from my Mother; when horrible things happen to her, she dismisses it, forgets it, tucks it away and moves on…I have no problem openly grieving, overanalyzing, crying, talking, etc… It is what makes a person REAL.
Dear Lara –
I too have no problem openly grieving, OVERANALYZING, crying, talking, etc… I agree with you it IS PART of what makes a person REAL…
I had a problem with LISTENING TO OTHERS, OTHERS VOICE OF REASON…and getting fixated on, stuck on unhealthy toxic partners for myself.
Please remember its only his “WORDS” that he SAYS he had a 2 plus yr relationship w/someone. In all honesty – that might be a blatant lie — I really encourage you to take and break down all of the things he has said to you and still says to you “I slept with my ex” — TAKE IT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT… these guys make up stories, tell lie after lie, and hit on woman after woman… they say what fits the moment. YOU ARE NOT DEALING WITH SOMEONE WHO DOES THINGS LIKE YOU OR TREATS OTHERS THE WAY YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE TREATED. We tend to be so shocked and caught up and say to ourselves theres no way he would do this for this or that reason — because its just so twisted for us to believe someone could do what they did (do)…
Why as low as he stooped and why with the way he operates in life (Facebooking and picking up young girls, and who knows maybe even guys (Sorry but AGAIN YOU DONT KNOW VERY MUCH ABOUT THE REAL HIM ONLY THE PICTURE HE PAINTED OF HIMSELF TO YOU OVER COMPUTER AND PHONE)…BUT THE POINT ISNT WHY WERENT YOU GOOD ENOUGH…(YOU WERE BTW)… BUT WHY IS HE/HIS TRUE CHARACTER WHEN YOU WERE WITH HIM …WHY IS HE SOMEONE YOU ARE WILLING TO SETTLE FOR?
The grass is always greener in our eyes with these toxic men. Meaning if you really were desperate and didnt care or love yourself and you let him come back into your life, etc…you would be sooooooo miserable and unhappy and could never trust him and never know what or who he is doing.
Look within. Look at your inner and outer beauty and smarts. Believe in yourself. Dont fall victim to the self-esteem issues these guys seek to bestow upon us.
I didnt have enough self-love, self-worth, self-trust, self-belief so I settled for jerks who treated me less than I deserve. It wasnt until I started to read here and get books and started to look at myself that I finally understood I must feel good about myself and get to know who I am before anyone else decent and caring and real could!!!!!
People have to earn your trust. He did not and he does not deserve to be a part of your life. It would be a nightmare with him. We shouldnt lay out all in the open about us to strangers — they have to show us with their actions and meeting our friends and families and vice versa..once we know what we deserve and the way we deserve to be treated we are never ever second guessing our value, worth or beauty. We just know when someone is treating us badly, confusing to us, lying to us — and thats when its up to us to take action – act on it – and go no contact and move on to the good decent honest trusting OTHERS that are out there waiting for us. Being real is also being able to say NO MORE.
Hopeforjoy;
Thanks. Tomorrow is an easy bike ride for me. Only the third in 9 months but I am looking forward to more.
One thing to keep the record fair. Jamie and I did not have sex during the month we were dating. I was very sick plus we both wanted to “take it slow.”
I learned he was HIV+ after he dumped me, when I accidently came upon an online dating profile of his.
“lara100 says:
Witsend: “Generally speaking what happens in these types of encountors is that after being discarded so abruptly we become obsessed with them.” -Yes..this is the sick and twisted truth. Are we all masochists or is just me? The very fact that he discarded me made me obsessed with him..For months when we spoke on the phone I found him very boring with little personality and a bad sense of humor. However, when he discarded me, I could safely say that I wanted him back-I wanted to be with him, marry him, spend the rest of my life with him.”
This is very true and a significant factor in the damage sociopaths inflict, since abandonment may occur when the victim is particulary vulnerable.
In my experience, I often wondered what would have happened had I the opportunity of a couple more dates with Jamie. His interpersonal coldness was becoming an issue and to be honest, I was not overwhelmingly sexually attracted to him.
When he dumped me, I was making the effort to move towards a real friendship and my last email to him was never meant to be such. I also remember feeling very sad but not crushed.
Two weeks later, that all changed when I stumbled upon his profile on a dating website. What should have been anger turned to deep sadness for him when I put everything together.
I came very close to contacting him but I guess my ego would not let me. I rember being OK for a couple more weeks, then going into a deep depression that I am only now getting over.
Only since coming here and processing actions over words was I able to make an emotional break. Obviously, I still think about him and a large part of that is due to the “FTW” nature of his actions and the nature in which I found out some truths about Jamie.
It really leaves your head spinning.
WOW..My husband done similar to a girl he met when he was working…we were having a terrible time..it was the last time we split..he told this woman he loved her, had an a amazing connection blah blah..he even left us his family..after knowing her only a week and never having had a date with her..she fell hard…I found lovefraud, went nc and within two weeks of nc he dumped her..she threatened suicide, he said he didnt care..he never spoke to her again..Over a year later she still waits..she initially told me on his return how h loved her etc..I told her, she was mad and he loved nobody, that she should come here to read or baggage reclaim…she only knew him weeks and he had her hooked within their first meeting.
Dear muldoon,
And you continue to stay with this man WHY??
I thought about the “obsession thing” that seems to almost universally occur when the relationship with a sociopath ends.
It starts with the whole process of sociopathic manipulation. They mirror you, thus providing you with a sense of real connection. The connection may be further enhanced by mistaken visual cues, such as the well-documented “sociopathic stare.” This deeply looking into your eyes can easily be confused for intense interest, when in reality sociopaths have a difficult time processing visual information. Then they start do things that provide “intermittent reward.” Intermittent reward is a seemingly random system of positive and negative reinforcement which actually causes the subject to want the “outcome” more than if given consistent positive reinforcement. At this point, you are hooked.
Short-term relationships seem particularly prone to obsessive thinking once they are ended because of the swift nature of the affair. The victim does not have the opportunity to learn all the faults of the sociopath. When dumped, the victim’s “fight or flight” response kicks in. However, without enough information to process the threat since the victim is still idealizing the sociopath, the mind becomes stuck in circles, looking for answers that will never come. Overly sensitive and about average intelligent individuals would be particular prone to obsessive thinking.
Hence, the wolf in sheep’s clothing is an often apt metaphor for the sociopath. If you knew it was a wolf, you would run. If you knew it was a sheep, you would stay and “fight” to correct the transgressions that crop into any relationship. But once the wolf puts on the sheep skin, your mind simply does not know what to do except getting stuck in overdrive.
blue eyes – like this post; very succinct. nicely done.
there is another response to fear – one that, for some reason is not often mentioned in the’ paradigm’: it’s ‘freeze’. this is seen in animals (freezing as to avoid detection or as an active response to threat), and is often noted in humans, especially women and disadvantaged groups. freezing is not a dysfunction of the flight or flight paradigm, but a part of the continuum of response.
Dear Blue_eyes,
Intermittent reward is why slot machines work, and why that is used in animal training, as well as in “brainwashing” in POW prisons that eventually lead to “Stockholm Syndrome”—it works! It works WELL!
The chemistry of our mammal brains is just as controlable as the chemistry of the brains of horses, mules, donkeys, and other animals that we use. I just finished a book about “The Other Brain” which is written by a research scientist on the physical and chemical compositions of the human brain, and how our brains are regulated by environment (trasining) is very VERY interesting. Environment can change the shape and make up of our brains as well as the chemistry. Change the chemistry, and you change the moods, thoughts, and behavior. Change the moods,, thoughts and behavior and you change the brain. A CIRCLE!
I stilll believe we have FREE CHOICE in our actions, and I also believe that genetics as well as environment help to shape our brains, but the mix of those is SOOOOO complex.