Editor’s note: Lovefraud received this e-mail from a reader whom we’ll call “Lara.”
About three months ago, I met a 34-year-old German banker from Munich online (he added me on Facebook), after being very hesitant to speak to him, I gave into his persistence and we started a whirlwind romance over the phone for two months. He asked me to meet him in Paris and I did a few weeks ago, only to be dumped the day after we had sex together. I have been asking myself for answers but it was only recently that my friend brought to my attention that Y (German banker) exhibited the key traits of a sociopath.
Y added me randomly on Facebook and we had one mutual friend (A fellow Korean Uni student at my university in New York). I messaged him asking if we had met, only for him to say that he “met another Lara in NY who looks like me.” I believed him but then later found out he also added my friend and a few other girls (some of them my friends) randomly on Facebook. I thought this was very weird behaviour as I do not understand why a grown man would add random younger girls on his Facebook all of whom he does not know.
After further investigation, I found out he was messaging a few of these girls too asking to “speak on the phone as he was curious about their voice,” which is exactly what he said to me. I found this very unnerving—a grown man messaging a plethora of younger girls on the Internet asking to “hear their voice on the phone.” I confronted him about this and he got incredibly defensive and sent me an incredibly long and eloquent email explaining why he added us on Facebook as a “social experiment.” He also called me paranoid and asked me how I could be concerned about Internet predators when I had more than a 1000 friends on my Facebook.
Talked on the phone
After saying no many times to a phone conversation, my curiosity took over me and one day I agreed to a brief conversation. I thought that if he turned out to be a creep, I would just block his number on my phone. Our phone conversation turned out to be alright—he was a decent and pleasant guy. However, he continued to call me every single day from then on, along with numerous text messaging.
Soon, he told me he had grown incredibly fond of me and was using affectionate terms like “baby.” I asked him why he was interested in me, as I am a 21-year-old university student in New York, who he has never met before. He told me I underestimated myself and that he liked me because I am “well traveled, educated and down to earth.” I just could not grasp how a 30+ year old banker from Munich with good looks would stoop so low as to find a romantic interest with much younger women on the Internet.
Intimate questions
Soon after we started talking on the phone, he started to be very inappropriate with me, asking personal and intimate questions. He knew I was very uncomfortable with this but he still persisted. He would tell me to “think of falling asleep in his arms,” “our kiss,” and then he would ask me to “fantasize having sex with him.”
I don’t know how he found the confidence to talk to me in this manner, as I never reciprocated his affection or romantic interest. I was uncomfortable, so I messaged a friend of his, which I found through his Facebook list, and asked her whether I should trust him. She responded immediately with glowing reviews about Y, saying she was good friends with him when he lived in London and that he was incredibly charming, successful, social and that a lot of women fancied him. However, despite all his inappropriate behaviour, I was so completely charmed by his looks, intelligence and wit that my judgment was practically impaired.
Fly to meet him
A few weeks after this, Y asked me when my next university break was, as he wanted to see me. I had one coming up in a month, in middle March. He insisted that I fly to Munich to see him. I told him “absolutely not.” I would never stoop so low as to fly to Munich to stay with a stranger I have never met before (as a girl I need to maintain a level of dignity and self-respect). He was very persistent and said I could stay with him and that we would drive to the mountains and the outskirts of Munich to ski. I told him I would not do that, and if he really wanted to see me, he could come to New York. He told me he could not take time off work to fly to New York and so I had to go to Munich.
Anyway, I ended up deciding to go to London to visit my friends during my university break. I told him he could come to London to see me but he was not satisfied with that as “London is not a romantic city and I would be around all my friends and not spend time with him.” He said he was willing to compromise and that we should spend a “romantic weekend in paris—just him and I.”
I was very hesitant and all my close girlfriends told me not to do it, as they felt he was trying to isolate me to a place where I do not know people or speak the language. However at this point I had already fallen for him so I agreed to it. I told him I wanted to have my separate room from him but he was completely and utterly adamant that we share a hotel room together. During this point of our phone conversations, he was already telling me that he felt like he could fall in love with me, that he had told his mother about me and that I should move to Munich next year after I graduate from Uni. I couldn’t help but believe and fall for his words.
Going to Paris
Two weeks before Paris, Y and I had started talking considerably less as his company was working on a major buy-out and I was occupied with exams. He said it was good for our relationship, as it would make us miss each other more. However, as days went by, he completely stopped texting me or calling me. Before Paris, we spoke once on the phone and it was a very brief conversation ”¦ he asked me about my week and I told him “it was very stressful along with hormonal problems due to my period.” He responded by saying, “Wow perfect timing that your period is over in time for Paris.” I was very disturbed by his comment—out of everything I told him about my stressful week, he was only concerned and delighted to know that I had just ended my period in time for Paris. I started to question what exactly he wants from me. All our phone conversations were heavily intimate where he would try dig hard to get intimate information about me, and he would force me to say things to him that I was not comfortable with.
I flew to London three Thursdays ago on a red eye and then took the Eurostar to Paris. Cut to the chase, when I first saw Y opening the hotel door for him, I thought he was incredibly good looking and tall in person. Three minutes into our meeting, he pretty much threw me on the bed and tried to undress me. I told him to stop it as I was uncomfortable and that I wanted to spend time talking to him first. He seemed visibly annoyed and agreed to go have a drink with me near the Trocodero. During our drink he was very cold, distant and aloof. He was NOT affectionate with me at all.
We went back to the hotel room and I did sleep with him and then the next day at brunch in Paris, he told me “it was over and that he could not see a future with me as I was too young for him.” I was so stunned and confused. Where did this sudden realisation come about? Months after telling me he was completely “obsessed” with me? He said that he became “rational and decided it would never work for him.”
Kicked me out
I started acting irrationally and even told him that it was unfair that he did not give us a chance and that he made me feel so vulnerable by coming all the way to Paris only to sleep with him and get dumped. He became incredibly defensive and angry and told me to go back to London that same night. I was resistant as I was so confused but he pretty much kicked me out and booked me a train ticket.
During the painful last few hours with him, he acted like a complete chauvinist—making me feel bad that he wasted his weekend coming to Paris and that he could have been so many other things in Munich. He started calling his Paris friends on his mobile phone while I was next to him asking if they would have “dinner with him that night,” and while we were walking back to the hotel, he even used his knuckles and pushed me from behind as he complained that “I was walking too slowly.” He even said I should be grateful as he has so many “women on Facebook who are interested in connecting with him.” It is almost like he forgot that HE was the one who connected with me on Facebook and pursued me RELENTLESSLY.
Y did not even send me off to the train station—he asked me to drop him off at Gallerie Lafayette (a shopping mall) because it was on the way to Gare Du Nord (the train station). During this whole time, I was still so numb and confused about the situation that I did not even act disappointed or hurt by him. I even suggested we try to stay friends.
Numb and confused
I went back to London that Saturday night completely numb, confused and shocked by the situation. I gave my heart to this stranger I met on Facebook who convinced me that he was obsessed and was falling in love with me—only to fly to Paris and be used for sex and dumped the next day.
It has been a few weeks since the situation occurred and I have become more rational and objective. My friends are all very disgusted by Y’s behaviour and have been trying to let me realise that what he did was “unkind and unacceptable” and that he was basically an “Internet predator casting a wide net for young girls on Facebook.” I still have trouble seeing it that way, as I keep remembering the person I spoke to on the phone for months. I want to believe that everything he said to me was real.
However, the anger now has set in a little and I cannot believe he did that to me. We have not spoken since. Many times I feel like talking to him as I want answers—but I know this is wrong. I recently found out that Y asked another girl out on a date (one that he also added randomly on Facebook). Initially I was enraged and jealous that he moved on so fast. However, my friends try to tell me that as a sociopath, he has basically found his “next victim.”
There’s still a part of me that believes I was not good enough for him and did not meet his standards, which is why he discarded me. I also feel that perhaps I “deceived” him on Facebook, because he felt I was not as pretty in real life as I was online. I am trying to rid myself of those thoughts that are only self-destructive. I am taking it day by day ”¦ seeing a counselor. I cannot let this situation make me crumble in despair for it will be letting him win. I need to become stronger from this and move on with my life knowing that I learnt an invaluable lesson.
Learning;
The biggest issue is my life is that I associate love with hurt and rejection. In addition, I see a pattern of making dubious romantic choices while going through periods of depression. In all cases, it was the “pity play” that got me hooked on various toxic individuals.
Pity is a powerful force. Personally, I doubt most sociopaths employ it consciously; rather, since their backgrounds often include incidents that can invoke pity (broken homes, childhood abuse…) their mention of such incidents can be very powerful.
In addition, while sociopaths are often portrayed as “predators,” this does not mean they are immune from depression and loneliness. In fact, I believe that depression and loneliness are at the core of the sociopath.
Jamie did not talk about feeling lonely, I just sensed that from him. He did talk about treatment for depression, something to which I related. Then there was the issue of his father walking out, his mother dying while he was in college… Most of my connection to him was empathy to my own issues of depression, loneliness and childhood issues from being adopted. This allowed me to overlook his self-destructive behaviors and one day warm, one day cold relationship with me.
Healthy relationships are not built on pity. They are built on shared values and interests. To this, Jamie and I shared only one interest — travel. My psychologist had a field day with that.
When I really thought about it, I realizes Jamie did not have many interests. I am very active. I like bicycling and other sports. I go to concerts, plays, museums and other cultural events. I cannot remember Jamie telling me of one real interest other than travel.
Why was that? His dating profile was quite honest. His interests, other than travel are boys, mojo, sleep and beer.
Pity? Pathetic for a 36-year old.
I contrast this to Nicolay, whom I met 6 months after Jamie. Nicolay is interested in photography, history, and art. His favorite artist is Van Gogh. Nicolay is hard working and has goals. He wants a partner, a nice apartment, a dog and a family. To this day, I have no idea what Jamie wants in life.
Really, in my story the true loss for me is Nicolay. While Jamie and I share many “negative” traits, my commonality with Nicolay was all positive.
While Nicolay was too young and too far away, I do not forget my days with him and how there was no angst, no unavailablity and no red flags. This is what I seek.
Dear Behindblueeyes,
If you are aware of what the issue is for you – then by all means start focusing on THAT – and why that is and what that is about and figure out how to overcome that!!!! 🙂
And when you figure out how to get depression under control – it should help take care of no longer making dubious romantic choices.
I respectfully disagree with you that it was the “pity play” that got you hooked or me hooked or others hooked. On the surface perhaps…yes a big part of it… but on a much deeper level, in my honest opinion, I think the fact that we allow ourselves to overlook others self-destructive behaviours or mood swings or lashing out at us or not treating us well – is a direct reflection of OUR OWN LACK OF SELF-RESPECT, SELF-LOVE, SELF-AWARENESS, etc.
Healthy relationships are built on so much more than shared values and interests, but I agree with you they are high up on the list…but at the top for me is a mutual level of self-respect for oneself and the other. To this, Im not sure you and Jamie shared that at all.
And also many many people can talk a good game… They can list interests and hobbies and say to you all they do and all they want…but its their actions that count most.
How is Nicolay a loss if he was too young and too far away — all the positives and negatives about Nicolay break even…simply because he was not a long term option for you. It sounds like it was a nice experience you had with Nicolay and a toxic experience you had with Jamie…but really neither one was the one for you.
Since you know what your issues are, continue to work on them…so they can dissipate and you can open yourself to letting in healthier and attainable relationships :)) You know what you are seeking (no angst, no unavailabilty and no red flags) and in order to experience all of that you need to keep check of your self-respect, self-trust, self-awareness, your boundaries (what you will and will not tolerate on any level), your newfound knowledge AS WELL AS make sure any potential partner is self-respecting, honest, actions are well-intended and values and interests are in line with yours!
It sounds like you got bits and pieces of the whole from both Nicolay and Jamie…maybe because you accepted less than you deserved or maybe because you are continuing to learn and grow as you go…both relationships caused you to find out more about yourself and others.. so thats a positive… now take what youve learned and make the necessary self-adjustments to help you move on and experience what you seek!!!!!
BehindBlueEyes:
I absolutely agree with you that the pity play is HUGE for these manipulators.
That’s why we are willing to overlook their bad behaviors….because they ALWAYS fall back onto the PITY PLAY when they get themselves into a jam.
The dupes are always right there to forgive and “fill in the blanks” for the disordered ones.
And the cycle continues on and on and on…until someone goes NO Contact, or the socio discards and moves on to new prey.
Donna has a powerful quote by Martha Stout, author of “Sociopath Next Door”, written in the “How to Spot a Con” section of this website.
It’s one of the first things I read that set off firecrackers in my head when I first found LoveFraud.
I think this pretty much sums it up:
“According to Martha Stout, Ph.D., author of The Sociopath Next Door*, the best clue that you are dealing with a sociopath is the pity play.”
“The most reliable sign, the most universal behavior of unscrupulous people is not directed, as one might imagine, at our fearfulness,” Stout says. “It is, perversely, an appeal to our sympathy.”
“The combination of consistently bad or inadequate behavior and frequent plays for your pity, Stout continues, is the closest thing to a warning you’ll ever get that you are being manipulated by a sociopath.”
Unlike you, I DO believe that sociopaths employ pity CONSCIOUSLY. They are MASTERS at it.
It’s like Kentucky Fried Chicken….they do one thing….and they do it well.
You say Jamie never talked about loneliness, but you sensed it from him.
I think you may be underestimating Jamie’s manipulative/acting skills.
Because if Jamie did not intend for you to sense loneliness, you would not have sensed it.
From what I’ve seen, there are ways of evoking pity in someone without saying a word.
But, that’s just my own opinion. I’ve never met Jamie.
My dad comes up to me this morning angry because my mom’s friend is helping me out with my license. He claims I’m giving him a bad reputation and I’m making him look bad. He says that its going to come back to haunt me. What I don’t understand is that I’m looking for help to stabilize myself. He’s not going to do it so where else can I recieve help? What does he want me to do sit at home hungry and cry. I’m not going to do that. That’s not who I am. So I just don’t get it?
They cant use the pity play on folks who have set healthy strong boundaries with regard to what they are willing to NEVER OVERLOOK, or react to, or get sucked into.
So ultimately before one finds themself enmeshed in having to choose NO CONTACT or waiting for socio to discard and move on…a suggestion I have is to adjust or set new standards when dealing with others.
When we stay true to our self respect, self-worth, self-trust… we are NEVER WILLING TO OVERLOOK BAD BEHAVIORS – we just realize on the spot that this is a potential toxic person/situation and we DONT GIVE OUR PITY ( with helping out with money or keep believing that things will change or forge on knowing the facts but denying them -thinking it will get better,etc) we dont give second chances to abusive, manipulative pity seeking people. period. the end.
What is the closest warning that we will ever get that we are ALLOWING ourselves to be manipulated by a sociopath?? Having continual pity for them, making excuses for them, turning a cheek to what they do, digging into our wallets for them, letting them get by without paying bills, continually going and going on with them without any of our needs being met, etc… how is that stopped or never started to begin with? BY US! BY OUR OWN CHOICES! By self-respecting ourselves and knowing how and when to say NO.
I once was at a red light and witnessed a little girl get hit by a car. I couldnt believe that within seconds I was lying on the ground next to her, trying to keep her conscious until paramedics arrived… its a part of who I am, who I want to be – unfortunatley it carried over to the extreme of never picking and choosing who I would help, care about, give to. So, I lost thousands by “giving and helping” my ex… I almost lost myself as well because my focus was on “saving” him, “saving us”… until I figured out I needed to make better choices. I have no problem helping someone in need – who also wants to help themself — whose actions show THAT. But never again will I abandon myself and give my all to someone who doesnt respect themself or others or me – or to someone who does nothing to help himself.
I had to become more self-aware in order to protect myself from toxic people/relationships. I had to instill boundaries and stick to them. I had to rid self-doubt and know that the changes I was making within werent a bad thing – but the most positive thing I could do to ensure healthier relationships and lifestyle. I had to expect certain basic things from others – and myself – in order to experience healthy relationships. I had to learn how to protect myself. That responsibility is mine. I never knew that I had to do that. Until I met a toxic person who saw “doesnt protect herself, doesnt think of herself first, doesnt want to disappoint others, doesnt respect herself enough to know when to say NO WHEN AND IF A TOXIC SITUATION WARRANTS IT”…written all over my being.
Now stamped acrossed my being is : WARNING – I RESPECT MYSELF AND LOVE MYSELF AND TRUST MYSELF! TOXIC MEN APPROACH WITH CAUTION !!
Hurtnomore –
Continue being who you are. Believe in yourself and your choices.
Do what it takes to accomplish your goals!
Do you really have to get it? Get him? Or can you just accept what comes out of his mouth are just WORDS/TOOLS he uses to confuse you and set you back.
Perhaps to “get it” means to say to yourself — oh , I do get — he is trying to manipulate, control, make me feel bad, make me question myself…
The question isnt what does he want me to do? Its what DO YOU WANT TO DO? Focus on that and do it! Very little contact with him is good. Not really responding much to him except maybe sorry you feel the way you do – Im just doing what anybody does who is old enough to get a drivers license. This isnt about you (DAD) this is about me.
And just keep going forward in a healthy direction!!!
When I was 20, I thought a boundary was the velvet ropes they put up at the Bon Jovi concert.
If I had known then what I know now, I would have definitely made different choices for myself.
Hindsight is always 20/20.
Learning- Every time the guy has a problem he puts it on me. Its not his faults people see him for who he really is. I’m trying to move forward and become a better person and start adulthood.
Rosa – I was worse off than you — I thought they were there to swing on. lean on, hold us up! LOL
I so would have made different choices for myself too.
At the stage Im in, or now entering, I see less and less benefit reviewing all that they do and they did/said… and much more benefit in how we can overcome becoming involved with them or caught up in them.
I know this is a new stage/phase for me… and that I spent a heck of alot of time fixated on him/what he did/how he operates and ALL OF HIS ISSUES — but the only positive that came out of that phase was finally allowing myself to have a willingness to learn about their tactics, their toxic ways so that I could better protect myself going forward.
The real hard work in healing, growing, learning was how to go forward with security, trust, belief again IN MYSELF – my new and improved self. I honestly had to focus on me , how I could avoid them and still live life to the fullest. It really does begin and end within – for me. Its not all about me – I did nothing wrong – Im not a bad person — but its partly about my choices – the ones I didnt know I had! 🙂
HURTNOMORE –
GOOD FOR YOU!! THATS THE WAY YOU HAVE TO VIEW IT! He may try to put his problems on you — but hopefully you will let it roll right off of you and not question or try to get it! You already do get it! So, just dont let yourself get deeper into what he does or why he does it! HE isnt going to change — but you can change the way you let him affect you! Take it all with a grain of salt — and keep moving forward ! You do get it!!!