Editor’s note: Lovefraud received this e-mail from a reader whom we’ll call “Lara.”
About three months ago, I met a 34-year-old German banker from Munich online (he added me on Facebook), after being very hesitant to speak to him, I gave into his persistence and we started a whirlwind romance over the phone for two months. He asked me to meet him in Paris and I did a few weeks ago, only to be dumped the day after we had sex together. I have been asking myself for answers but it was only recently that my friend brought to my attention that Y (German banker) exhibited the key traits of a sociopath.
Y added me randomly on Facebook and we had one mutual friend (A fellow Korean Uni student at my university in New York). I messaged him asking if we had met, only for him to say that he “met another Lara in NY who looks like me.” I believed him but then later found out he also added my friend and a few other girls (some of them my friends) randomly on Facebook. I thought this was very weird behaviour as I do not understand why a grown man would add random younger girls on his Facebook all of whom he does not know.
After further investigation, I found out he was messaging a few of these girls too asking to “speak on the phone as he was curious about their voice,” which is exactly what he said to me. I found this very unnerving—a grown man messaging a plethora of younger girls on the Internet asking to “hear their voice on the phone.” I confronted him about this and he got incredibly defensive and sent me an incredibly long and eloquent email explaining why he added us on Facebook as a “social experiment.” He also called me paranoid and asked me how I could be concerned about Internet predators when I had more than a 1000 friends on my Facebook.
Talked on the phone
After saying no many times to a phone conversation, my curiosity took over me and one day I agreed to a brief conversation. I thought that if he turned out to be a creep, I would just block his number on my phone. Our phone conversation turned out to be alright—he was a decent and pleasant guy. However, he continued to call me every single day from then on, along with numerous text messaging.
Soon, he told me he had grown incredibly fond of me and was using affectionate terms like “baby.” I asked him why he was interested in me, as I am a 21-year-old university student in New York, who he has never met before. He told me I underestimated myself and that he liked me because I am “well traveled, educated and down to earth.” I just could not grasp how a 30+ year old banker from Munich with good looks would stoop so low as to find a romantic interest with much younger women on the Internet.
Intimate questions
Soon after we started talking on the phone, he started to be very inappropriate with me, asking personal and intimate questions. He knew I was very uncomfortable with this but he still persisted. He would tell me to “think of falling asleep in his arms,” “our kiss,” and then he would ask me to “fantasize having sex with him.”
I don’t know how he found the confidence to talk to me in this manner, as I never reciprocated his affection or romantic interest. I was uncomfortable, so I messaged a friend of his, which I found through his Facebook list, and asked her whether I should trust him. She responded immediately with glowing reviews about Y, saying she was good friends with him when he lived in London and that he was incredibly charming, successful, social and that a lot of women fancied him. However, despite all his inappropriate behaviour, I was so completely charmed by his looks, intelligence and wit that my judgment was practically impaired.
Fly to meet him
A few weeks after this, Y asked me when my next university break was, as he wanted to see me. I had one coming up in a month, in middle March. He insisted that I fly to Munich to see him. I told him “absolutely not.” I would never stoop so low as to fly to Munich to stay with a stranger I have never met before (as a girl I need to maintain a level of dignity and self-respect). He was very persistent and said I could stay with him and that we would drive to the mountains and the outskirts of Munich to ski. I told him I would not do that, and if he really wanted to see me, he could come to New York. He told me he could not take time off work to fly to New York and so I had to go to Munich.
Anyway, I ended up deciding to go to London to visit my friends during my university break. I told him he could come to London to see me but he was not satisfied with that as “London is not a romantic city and I would be around all my friends and not spend time with him.” He said he was willing to compromise and that we should spend a “romantic weekend in paris—just him and I.”
I was very hesitant and all my close girlfriends told me not to do it, as they felt he was trying to isolate me to a place where I do not know people or speak the language. However at this point I had already fallen for him so I agreed to it. I told him I wanted to have my separate room from him but he was completely and utterly adamant that we share a hotel room together. During this point of our phone conversations, he was already telling me that he felt like he could fall in love with me, that he had told his mother about me and that I should move to Munich next year after I graduate from Uni. I couldn’t help but believe and fall for his words.
Going to Paris
Two weeks before Paris, Y and I had started talking considerably less as his company was working on a major buy-out and I was occupied with exams. He said it was good for our relationship, as it would make us miss each other more. However, as days went by, he completely stopped texting me or calling me. Before Paris, we spoke once on the phone and it was a very brief conversation ”¦ he asked me about my week and I told him “it was very stressful along with hormonal problems due to my period.” He responded by saying, “Wow perfect timing that your period is over in time for Paris.” I was very disturbed by his comment—out of everything I told him about my stressful week, he was only concerned and delighted to know that I had just ended my period in time for Paris. I started to question what exactly he wants from me. All our phone conversations were heavily intimate where he would try dig hard to get intimate information about me, and he would force me to say things to him that I was not comfortable with.
I flew to London three Thursdays ago on a red eye and then took the Eurostar to Paris. Cut to the chase, when I first saw Y opening the hotel door for him, I thought he was incredibly good looking and tall in person. Three minutes into our meeting, he pretty much threw me on the bed and tried to undress me. I told him to stop it as I was uncomfortable and that I wanted to spend time talking to him first. He seemed visibly annoyed and agreed to go have a drink with me near the Trocodero. During our drink he was very cold, distant and aloof. He was NOT affectionate with me at all.
We went back to the hotel room and I did sleep with him and then the next day at brunch in Paris, he told me “it was over and that he could not see a future with me as I was too young for him.” I was so stunned and confused. Where did this sudden realisation come about? Months after telling me he was completely “obsessed” with me? He said that he became “rational and decided it would never work for him.”
Kicked me out
I started acting irrationally and even told him that it was unfair that he did not give us a chance and that he made me feel so vulnerable by coming all the way to Paris only to sleep with him and get dumped. He became incredibly defensive and angry and told me to go back to London that same night. I was resistant as I was so confused but he pretty much kicked me out and booked me a train ticket.
During the painful last few hours with him, he acted like a complete chauvinist—making me feel bad that he wasted his weekend coming to Paris and that he could have been so many other things in Munich. He started calling his Paris friends on his mobile phone while I was next to him asking if they would have “dinner with him that night,” and while we were walking back to the hotel, he even used his knuckles and pushed me from behind as he complained that “I was walking too slowly.” He even said I should be grateful as he has so many “women on Facebook who are interested in connecting with him.” It is almost like he forgot that HE was the one who connected with me on Facebook and pursued me RELENTLESSLY.
Y did not even send me off to the train station—he asked me to drop him off at Gallerie Lafayette (a shopping mall) because it was on the way to Gare Du Nord (the train station). During this whole time, I was still so numb and confused about the situation that I did not even act disappointed or hurt by him. I even suggested we try to stay friends.
Numb and confused
I went back to London that Saturday night completely numb, confused and shocked by the situation. I gave my heart to this stranger I met on Facebook who convinced me that he was obsessed and was falling in love with me—only to fly to Paris and be used for sex and dumped the next day.
It has been a few weeks since the situation occurred and I have become more rational and objective. My friends are all very disgusted by Y’s behaviour and have been trying to let me realise that what he did was “unkind and unacceptable” and that he was basically an “Internet predator casting a wide net for young girls on Facebook.” I still have trouble seeing it that way, as I keep remembering the person I spoke to on the phone for months. I want to believe that everything he said to me was real.
However, the anger now has set in a little and I cannot believe he did that to me. We have not spoken since. Many times I feel like talking to him as I want answers—but I know this is wrong. I recently found out that Y asked another girl out on a date (one that he also added randomly on Facebook). Initially I was enraged and jealous that he moved on so fast. However, my friends try to tell me that as a sociopath, he has basically found his “next victim.”
There’s still a part of me that believes I was not good enough for him and did not meet his standards, which is why he discarded me. I also feel that perhaps I “deceived” him on Facebook, because he felt I was not as pretty in real life as I was online. I am trying to rid myself of those thoughts that are only self-destructive. I am taking it day by day ”¦ seeing a counselor. I cannot let this situation make me crumble in despair for it will be letting him win. I need to become stronger from this and move on with my life knowing that I learnt an invaluable lesson.
{{{Hurtnomore}}} Yeah, and he’s EARNED his bad reputation! GOOD FOR YOU!!!!!! Independence….it’s about YOUR independence, and he hates the idea of it.
BRIGHTEST BLESSINGS!!!!
Learning, it’s all about…..learning! My dad saw it for what it was and actually asked me if I was sure that I was doing what I thought was best. Well, of course I did! That was over 25 years ago and I thought that I new what I was doing was “right” and “good.” LOLOLOL I had to experience the things that I did with the ex spath in order to move myself to where I should be heading.
Come to think of it, I’m okay with what I experienced because I wouldn’t be who I am today, if I hadn’t. I’m comfortable walking away from someone that I deem to be dangerous. Without my experiences, I woulnd’t know that I had a choice to protect myself. Oh, I hate what the ex spath did to me, our kids, and everyone else, but it forced me to sort of grow up and call a spade a spade.
Rosa,
Mine is going overboard on ‘ye olde pity play’ as of late. He has a prostate problem, “Who will take care of me?” Locked the keys in his car “Who will I call if you divorce me, to get the keys for my car?” “Can’t you give me another chance?, Don’t the last 17 years mean anything?” “Why won’t you believe me?” “I couldn’t sleep at all last night and you’re breaking my heart.” Jessssshhhhhhhh
They’re just words, Hopeforjoy, and he knows that YOU know it. He’s not going to go without a fight, the way it sounds.
Learning;
My depression is well under control, thanks. I have a bit of a problem of being tired from my operation last month, but nothing like the preceding couple of years…
I think you are right about “our side of the street,” to borrow a 12-step term. If my self-awareness and self-esteem had not been so low when I met Jamie, I would have never gotten involved.
I also agree regarding your comment about mutual level of self-respect for oneself and the other. I might have had some for him, but since I lacked self-respect, one could argue that many of my words to him at that time were essentially meaningless, even if they came from the heart.
Jamie had respect nether for me nor himself. Now that I am detached, I see why I cannot and should not feel sorry for somebody self-destructive.
Interestingly, in the years prior to Jamie, I had a lot of self-respect. This became eroded by the evils of Wall Street, declining health and depression. In fact, one of the reasons why my romantic life was going so badly in New York was that I had boundaries and values and basically everyone I was meeting set off some red flag that I did not avoid.
Nicolay was a loss because unlike Jamie and others, Nicolay and I did have a lot in common. More important, he had self-respect and values, something not easy to find in the New York gay community.
Finally, I again agree that in both instances I was going after less than I deserve and I do keep that in mind. While I am still not 100%, I have been somewhat social and I an very guarded to any red flags, especially anyone who in any way reminds me of Jamie…
Behind_blue_eyes, you sound pretty good, tonight – philosophical, introspective, and far more relaxed than recently. GOOD FOR YOU!!!!!
Brightest blessings!!!
Yes..I agree wholeheartedly learning and blueeyes..it all balls down to SELF-RESPECT and SELF-LOVE.. A lot of my friends ask me : “why did you go to Paris?”, “Why did you continue entertaining him on the phone even though you knew he was a creep?”, “Why did you speak to him at all?”. I know for a fact none of my girlfriends would have did what I did because they all have self-respect. Yes as young women in our early 20s, we all struggle with certain image and self-esteem issues..but I don’t think ANY of them would have gone to Paris to meet a stranger they had a whirlwind phone romance with for 2 months (all the redflags included)..
Even my therapist asked me..: “Do you sometimes question why you did what you did?”.. I am a very confident girl with my friends and other women but I get incredibly incredibly insecure with men.. I need approval from them. I have never resorted to dressing scantily or sleeping around to get approval from them though.. However, whenever I meet men and have a conversation with them, I am always incredibly conscious about the way I act and the way they perceive me. Sometimes I wonder if it was my upbringing that led me to be this way: lack of a fatherly presence, always being less smarter than my older brother, competing for the attention of my Mother…
I am trying to work on gaining confidence, self respect and self love. I don’t know where to start.. I google articles on ‘how to become more confident’ and I listen to sermons on “self-love and self esteem”…I think it’s more complicated than that..What i’ve learned though is that self-love comes from inside-out and not outside-in. What this means is that it is impossible to be confident in ourselves by seeking approval from external sources..confidence needs to come from inside us before we put ourselves out there to the world..
The problem I’ve had this week is that I’ve been feeling the need to validate myself to Y. A lot of good stuff has happened to me the past few weeks: academically, socially etc..and I always feel the need to tell Y to show him how great I am; that I am better than him and better off than him.. I don’t really know where this is coming from..
Lara, I am so sorry for what happened to you. In a certain sense, our stories are very similar and, as you, I struggle with myself to gain self-confidence (I also had a absent father, etc). This blog has been very helpful, as well as a friend who keeps writing me e-mails every time I feel lost. I also fell in love with a sociopath through phone and e-mail, and this guy traveled just to see me. He stayed in my place, we had 4 days together and I took him – with pleasure – to everywhere I could. He gave red flags in that visit (as neglecting me totally in a dinner with my previous boss and his wife), but I kept a hope on the relationship after he left even when he froze completely – after 20 days – under the excuse of too much work. During this time I was in the process of getting my visa to work in US for him, and that was already a very stressful time. I arrived here trying to believe that what he told me a few days before Xmas was true, that he was not prepared for a deep involvement because of stress, etc. When I arrived here he treated me as if nothing had ever happened, as if he did not even know me, and refused to help me in the search for a house when I asked to (the minimum you would do for at least a friend, as he claimed I was). After two tense weeks I decided to go and talk to him (I NEEDED some explanation), and then I learned that he was dating someone, and when I asked if it was serious, he said he did not know. This was +/- 3 months ago, and he got married last Saturday (something that was already planned for a longer time), and as a boss he hardly ever speaks to me. Under all that initial turbulence I decided to trust a guy in the department, telling him what happened, but again it was a bad choice, because this guy suddenly started being nasty and attacking me because I was having a bad time to overcome the trauma and could not catch up with his work (and was not feeding his ego, which is HUGE). It is a very toxic working environment, full of jealousy and frustrated people, and I am having a horrible time here, just eagerly waiting to leave in less than two months. I wanna find some spiritual peace.
What I’d like to tell you is, please be happy that he is no longer in your life. Move on. It is not you, it is him. I know how traumatic this experience was for you, but you survived, and take it as a lesson (at least that is how I am taking my experience, dealing with two unreliable jerks now instead of only one). I am fed up of sick people.
I did not deserve the treatment I had, as you did not deserve the one you had. Be strong, be with your friends. The pain will fade with time.
Rosa;
I guess it is difficult for to separate conscious from unconscious behavior. I do believe that many sociopaths are consciously manipulative. I just don’t think they all are all the time. For me, this is important to realize that they are not all overtly evil. I believe too many focus on such individuals. My story is more of the covert sociopath, and its important to understand these people exist.
Thus, Jamie did not lure me for sex or money. I was not subject to any overt lies not was I in the slightest way subject to physical abuse. There was no yelling or screaming.
Personally, I don’t think he was smart enough to “plot” in the manner that sociopaths are masters. I also believe that many, including professionals, describe sociopathic behavior in a plotting fashion because it underscores their seemingly “predatory” nature. True for some, but not all.
As such, the meek, introverted and slightly built Jamie could hardly be viewed as a predator. He didn’t even approach me, I approached him.
However, he was guilty of lies of omission and lies of convenience. He is subtly yet highly manipulative.
Regarding the pity play, it cannot be argued that certain environmental factors, along with a genetic predisposition, make some individuals a sociopath. Given this, many sociopaths will have something in their past that lends itself to the “pity play.’ Some may use this intentionally, but not all.
Jamie was not proud of his past and in many ways was running from it. The fact that Jamie came from a broken home allowed me to “pity” him, but you must understand he talked little about it. The same goes for his mother’s death while he was in college. He even admitted to me that he needed to be more open. Thus, I sincerely doubt Jamie was using his past to get me to pity him so I would fall for him.
Regarding his loneliness, it was something I really grasped until after the fact. I remembered several discussions with him where he noted that I seemed to have a very active an interesting life. Coming from a flight attendant, I found this quite interesting. However, I learned that while home, he did not seem to do much. He stopped going to the gym and did not seem to have regular social contacts. I encouraged him to get out of his flat and do things, even just walk around the city. He did this and thanked me for the advice. His last email to me even contained a reference to a lot of recent activity around him had left him in an “unusually good mood…” He wasn’t playing games with this as well.
Thus, there were no overt plays to my pity. I think Stoudt refers to those sociopaths who, when confronted by bad behavior, play the “nobody understands me game…” Jamie did none of this, but then again I did not know him for long. In fact, his only response when I confronted him about the timing of his dumping me be very “shitty”, he simply did not respond. I felt guilty about being harsh with him around Christmas and after a week I apologized…
Lara;
You are making progress and feeling good about yourself. Seeking validation from Y is a natural feeling that I suggest avoiding. For one, you really need NC, but more important, you won’t get it from him.
I feel the same regarding Jamie. I would love to have him see me now, knowing how superficial he is. When I met him, I was very sick, including Thrush and Hepatitis B. In the six month prior to my recent surgery, I gave up drinking and went to the gym basically 6 days a week, two hours per day. Surgery set me back a month or so but two weeks ago I was fully cleared to work out again. Now I have never looked better in my life. I am 10 pounds heavier than a year ago and all my friends tell me how much healthier I look.
But I keep my desire a thought. If Jamie saw ne today, he would agree how much better I look. He would manipulate me for and I would be vulnerable to his games.
STAY AWAY.