Editor’s note: Lovefraud received this e-mail from a reader whom we’ll call “Lara.”
About three months ago, I met a 34-year-old German banker from Munich online (he added me on Facebook), after being very hesitant to speak to him, I gave into his persistence and we started a whirlwind romance over the phone for two months. He asked me to meet him in Paris and I did a few weeks ago, only to be dumped the day after we had sex together. I have been asking myself for answers but it was only recently that my friend brought to my attention that Y (German banker) exhibited the key traits of a sociopath.
Y added me randomly on Facebook and we had one mutual friend (A fellow Korean Uni student at my university in New York). I messaged him asking if we had met, only for him to say that he “met another Lara in NY who looks like me.” I believed him but then later found out he also added my friend and a few other girls (some of them my friends) randomly on Facebook. I thought this was very weird behaviour as I do not understand why a grown man would add random younger girls on his Facebook all of whom he does not know.
After further investigation, I found out he was messaging a few of these girls too asking to “speak on the phone as he was curious about their voice,” which is exactly what he said to me. I found this very unnerving—a grown man messaging a plethora of younger girls on the Internet asking to “hear their voice on the phone.” I confronted him about this and he got incredibly defensive and sent me an incredibly long and eloquent email explaining why he added us on Facebook as a “social experiment.” He also called me paranoid and asked me how I could be concerned about Internet predators when I had more than a 1000 friends on my Facebook.
Talked on the phone
After saying no many times to a phone conversation, my curiosity took over me and one day I agreed to a brief conversation. I thought that if he turned out to be a creep, I would just block his number on my phone. Our phone conversation turned out to be alright—he was a decent and pleasant guy. However, he continued to call me every single day from then on, along with numerous text messaging.
Soon, he told me he had grown incredibly fond of me and was using affectionate terms like “baby.” I asked him why he was interested in me, as I am a 21-year-old university student in New York, who he has never met before. He told me I underestimated myself and that he liked me because I am “well traveled, educated and down to earth.” I just could not grasp how a 30+ year old banker from Munich with good looks would stoop so low as to find a romantic interest with much younger women on the Internet.
Intimate questions
Soon after we started talking on the phone, he started to be very inappropriate with me, asking personal and intimate questions. He knew I was very uncomfortable with this but he still persisted. He would tell me to “think of falling asleep in his arms,” “our kiss,” and then he would ask me to “fantasize having sex with him.”
I don’t know how he found the confidence to talk to me in this manner, as I never reciprocated his affection or romantic interest. I was uncomfortable, so I messaged a friend of his, which I found through his Facebook list, and asked her whether I should trust him. She responded immediately with glowing reviews about Y, saying she was good friends with him when he lived in London and that he was incredibly charming, successful, social and that a lot of women fancied him. However, despite all his inappropriate behaviour, I was so completely charmed by his looks, intelligence and wit that my judgment was practically impaired.
Fly to meet him
A few weeks after this, Y asked me when my next university break was, as he wanted to see me. I had one coming up in a month, in middle March. He insisted that I fly to Munich to see him. I told him “absolutely not.” I would never stoop so low as to fly to Munich to stay with a stranger I have never met before (as a girl I need to maintain a level of dignity and self-respect). He was very persistent and said I could stay with him and that we would drive to the mountains and the outskirts of Munich to ski. I told him I would not do that, and if he really wanted to see me, he could come to New York. He told me he could not take time off work to fly to New York and so I had to go to Munich.
Anyway, I ended up deciding to go to London to visit my friends during my university break. I told him he could come to London to see me but he was not satisfied with that as “London is not a romantic city and I would be around all my friends and not spend time with him.” He said he was willing to compromise and that we should spend a “romantic weekend in paris—just him and I.”
I was very hesitant and all my close girlfriends told me not to do it, as they felt he was trying to isolate me to a place where I do not know people or speak the language. However at this point I had already fallen for him so I agreed to it. I told him I wanted to have my separate room from him but he was completely and utterly adamant that we share a hotel room together. During this point of our phone conversations, he was already telling me that he felt like he could fall in love with me, that he had told his mother about me and that I should move to Munich next year after I graduate from Uni. I couldn’t help but believe and fall for his words.
Going to Paris
Two weeks before Paris, Y and I had started talking considerably less as his company was working on a major buy-out and I was occupied with exams. He said it was good for our relationship, as it would make us miss each other more. However, as days went by, he completely stopped texting me or calling me. Before Paris, we spoke once on the phone and it was a very brief conversation ”¦ he asked me about my week and I told him “it was very stressful along with hormonal problems due to my period.” He responded by saying, “Wow perfect timing that your period is over in time for Paris.” I was very disturbed by his comment—out of everything I told him about my stressful week, he was only concerned and delighted to know that I had just ended my period in time for Paris. I started to question what exactly he wants from me. All our phone conversations were heavily intimate where he would try dig hard to get intimate information about me, and he would force me to say things to him that I was not comfortable with.
I flew to London three Thursdays ago on a red eye and then took the Eurostar to Paris. Cut to the chase, when I first saw Y opening the hotel door for him, I thought he was incredibly good looking and tall in person. Three minutes into our meeting, he pretty much threw me on the bed and tried to undress me. I told him to stop it as I was uncomfortable and that I wanted to spend time talking to him first. He seemed visibly annoyed and agreed to go have a drink with me near the Trocodero. During our drink he was very cold, distant and aloof. He was NOT affectionate with me at all.
We went back to the hotel room and I did sleep with him and then the next day at brunch in Paris, he told me “it was over and that he could not see a future with me as I was too young for him.” I was so stunned and confused. Where did this sudden realisation come about? Months after telling me he was completely “obsessed” with me? He said that he became “rational and decided it would never work for him.”
Kicked me out
I started acting irrationally and even told him that it was unfair that he did not give us a chance and that he made me feel so vulnerable by coming all the way to Paris only to sleep with him and get dumped. He became incredibly defensive and angry and told me to go back to London that same night. I was resistant as I was so confused but he pretty much kicked me out and booked me a train ticket.
During the painful last few hours with him, he acted like a complete chauvinist—making me feel bad that he wasted his weekend coming to Paris and that he could have been so many other things in Munich. He started calling his Paris friends on his mobile phone while I was next to him asking if they would have “dinner with him that night,” and while we were walking back to the hotel, he even used his knuckles and pushed me from behind as he complained that “I was walking too slowly.” He even said I should be grateful as he has so many “women on Facebook who are interested in connecting with him.” It is almost like he forgot that HE was the one who connected with me on Facebook and pursued me RELENTLESSLY.
Y did not even send me off to the train station—he asked me to drop him off at Gallerie Lafayette (a shopping mall) because it was on the way to Gare Du Nord (the train station). During this whole time, I was still so numb and confused about the situation that I did not even act disappointed or hurt by him. I even suggested we try to stay friends.
Numb and confused
I went back to London that Saturday night completely numb, confused and shocked by the situation. I gave my heart to this stranger I met on Facebook who convinced me that he was obsessed and was falling in love with me—only to fly to Paris and be used for sex and dumped the next day.
It has been a few weeks since the situation occurred and I have become more rational and objective. My friends are all very disgusted by Y’s behaviour and have been trying to let me realise that what he did was “unkind and unacceptable” and that he was basically an “Internet predator casting a wide net for young girls on Facebook.” I still have trouble seeing it that way, as I keep remembering the person I spoke to on the phone for months. I want to believe that everything he said to me was real.
However, the anger now has set in a little and I cannot believe he did that to me. We have not spoken since. Many times I feel like talking to him as I want answers—but I know this is wrong. I recently found out that Y asked another girl out on a date (one that he also added randomly on Facebook). Initially I was enraged and jealous that he moved on so fast. However, my friends try to tell me that as a sociopath, he has basically found his “next victim.”
There’s still a part of me that believes I was not good enough for him and did not meet his standards, which is why he discarded me. I also feel that perhaps I “deceived” him on Facebook, because he felt I was not as pretty in real life as I was online. I am trying to rid myself of those thoughts that are only self-destructive. I am taking it day by day ”¦ seeing a counselor. I cannot let this situation make me crumble in despair for it will be letting him win. I need to become stronger from this and move on with my life knowing that I learnt an invaluable lesson.
Please, is anyone even surprised by this? My ex spath has more than a thousand friends on Facebook, and at LEAST 80% of them are teenage girls or girls in their twenties that he has NEVER MET. Random friend requests on Facebook…my daughter gets them and her profile is private. What kind of man in their late 40’s friend requests little girls and young women he’s never met…a PREDATOR.
My PX was in his late 40’s and had an affair with a 19 year old and continued to chase teens and younger females till the day I dumped him. He has married a woman his age, but I suspect it’s for show and he still continues his predatory behavior.
Ox is right, always listen to that ‘gut’ feeling, that feeling way down in your stomach that feels uneasy, telling you something is not right here. Follow that, it’s our protection. As I have said before, man is the only animal that overrides this, animals move and survive using it. Don’t listen to the words being spun, listen to your instincts. Obey them! I try to always do this now and my life is far better!!!!
As far as the rejection he used by saying you were not as pretty as your facebook picture etc…that’s just devaluation, a common tactic used by sociopaths to project blame back onto you. Also, to destroy your self esteem. These men have deep seated issues that have nothing to do with us at all. They are not female ‘lovers’, they are female haters. The goal is to destroy and sex is used to ‘hook’ and overpower. It’s not based on desire, it’s based on power, control and degradation. All the pretty words he used in the beginning were just to beguile you. In the garden of Eden, the serpent [devil] “beguiled” Eve. What is the definition of beguile: To deceive, hoodwink. There you have it. For the sociopath it’s all about the con. Never, ever forget that. I’m not going to.
Dear Lara,
I live one mile away from the Trocadero.
A few days ago, I discovered the « seduction community », an informal network of men who practice what they call « the game », hoping to become « Pick Up Artists » (PUA).
Basically, their underlying assumption is that many women will never consider dating a decent guy, but will easily fall for assholes.
These men claim they used to be considerate towards women but were systematically ignored. The very women who had rebuffed them with contempt were mysteriously attracted to blatant jerks and then whined because they had been used for sex before being dumped unceremoniously.
So these « beta males » decided they had to work hard in order to look like those sexy assholes. Their mantra : improve your « jerk quotient » and learn to mimick « alpha males ». Their descriptions of alpha males and the various tips they give to wannabe PUAs remind me of psychopaths : confidence, cockiness, shamelessness, superficial charm, charisma, self-entitlement, lack of anxiety, glibness, callousness, manipulativeness.
Their aim is to become some kind of artificial psychopath to deserve the longings of young ladies like yourself. They believe that if they treat women like objects, their « targets » will sheepishly and willingly submit and spread their legs open.
The sad truth is that your story proves them right.
I don’t think you are that naive. Any 21 yo could have seen from the very start that this guy was fishing for sex on an industrial scale. Still, you went ahead. You focused on skin-deep qualities (the height, the status, the age, his « charm », his good looks) and disregarded every red flag on the process.
If more people knew that you are willing to cross the ocean just to have a quickie with an unknown who ingratiated himself with cheap flattery, you would soon have 10 000 men eagerly solliciting you, from all around the world, to become their friend on Facebook. Even though he was « very cold, distant and aloof », « NOT affectionate (”) at all », you slept with him. You rewarded him for being a jerk. What’s the point of being nice?
Unfortunately, many women « reward » psychopaths to the point that some otherwise regular men wonder whether they should try to emulate them.
There’s no way out of psychopathy, because so many women choose to mate with them, even when it’s obvious (except for the woman) that the man lacks moral qualities. Think of Rihanna, Sonia Rolland, Sandra Bullock, Salvatore Briatore, etc.
You should read Roissy’s blog and Devlin’s essay entitled Sexual Utopia in Power. I don’t share their political views but their analysis are sharp, quite realistic and thought-provoking.
http://roissy.wordpress.com/
http://www.scribd.com/doc/23724929/Sexual-Utopia-in-Power-Devlin
Your pain will quickly dissipate. I hope you’ll just retain the cold nugget of wisdom that can be extracted from this depressing story.
A 32 yo male.
Speaking of pick-up-artists, there was actually a show on VH1 called “The Pick-Up-Artist”.
It was a reality show based on the concept of transforming socially challenged men into “players”.
And the “aficianado” pick-up-artist who taught the nerdy guys how to become players was a guy named “Mystery”.
I am LMAO right now. 🙂
If you have never seen the show, it’s worth watching for a little comedy relief, if nothing else.
The bullshit tactics that were being taught on this show….all in the name of “getting a woman” were priceless.
It was one of the creepiest (and funniest) reality shows I’ve seen so far.
Like I’ve said, pop culture (in the U.S.) is in the toilet right now.
http://www.vh1.com/shows/the_pickup_artist/season_1/series.jhtml
After all, doesn’t every girl want a man like “Mystery”. 🙂
Isn’t he the sexiest thing you have ever seen? 🙂 🙂
I can find one of these in my local club on any given Saturday night…..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_(pickup_artist)
Rosie, Thanks for your comments, they are right on. I couldn’t see the video feed (slow connections) but your comments about this sort of thing is RIGHT ON! And the MEDIA feeds on it.
Lara got “hoodwinked” and “beguiled” all right, but I don’t think that makes Nicolad’s comment of “ANY 21 year old could have seen from the start!” necessarily true. IN fact, Nic, I think it is somewhat demeaning and devaluing to Lara.
She made a risky decision, expecting better results than she got, but I think EVERY ONE OF US HERE has done the same thing, took a risk on trusting someone and had a poor outcome. At least hers didn’t take her a life time to figure out and she will definitely have learned a great lesson at the cost of a broken expectation, and a plane ticket.
I knew a guy years ago who woulde walk up and down the street and approach women and say “Do yoiu want to Fark?” to strangers, and it amazed me how many women took him up on this. He laughed about it, thought it was a RIOT and that these women were pitiful creatures. He was just proving how pitiful THEY WERE! DUH???? It never occured to him to look in the mirror.l
My story could be called ‘I met him on his forum, was used for sex but he kept me around so he could look like a good guy while he was doing just what he pleased.’
There’s a possibility the Narc I knew was one of the blokes Nicolaid mentions, rather than an actual spath (although he ticks the ’10 signs’).
He admitted when caught that he’d ‘f***ed up’ by telling me he loved me when he didn’t. Said that he ‘hadn’t ever had anyone with dad issues before’, as if that was an excuse.
He’s a very inadequate person who has learned a whole bag full of tricks that unfortunately do work on those of us who are vulnerable. There are a lot of women who get taken in by these manipulations because of previous abuse. Once the trauma-bonding starts it’s hard to make the break. The sex was terrible, I didn’t like or admire him, felt contemptuous even, but was hooked. Brain chemistry goes wrong and then it takes a huge effort to get away.
I’ve gained much more than a ‘cold nugget of wisdom’. Because of past abuse I carried on even when the red flags were wrapped around my neck, but it’s been a life-changing event for me that has made me happier than ever before. Still got a bit of work to do but I have learned at last to love and value myself and be far more discerning about the company I keep. No more abusive mummy’s boys for me. It’s taken loads of work but the rest of my life will be transformed.
Nicolaid – do you think it is possible for you to share your incisive wisdom without being toxic towards women?
You often have interesting and pointed arguments, but then also add degrading sentiments.
You have little credibility when you do that.
The purpose of this blog is to support one another. I see nothing supportive in your post.
Hi this is Lara the author of the article, thank you so much for ALL your comments and advice. It is amazing what a wonderful and useful resource the internet is.
Just the other day, Y called me after 2 months of not talking after Paris. I had made a lot of progress with healing, and viewing him as a monster and a sociopath made me get over him a lot faster… He called me out of the blue because he wanted to return a piece of clothing that I had left with him in Paris and also he needed help because the girl that he had added (whom he had found me through) had apparently messaged one or two of his female friends on facebook telling them he is a ‘creep who adds Asian girls on facebook”. So he wanted to know whether I had her email address or phone number…
I took the opportunity to calmly and diplomatically tell him about my feelings to everything that occurred in Paris. I told him that i held no anger towards him as I have moved on with my life and don’t believe in holding onto grudges. I also told him that I am glad I took the bullet for many 21 year old girls out there and that he is lucky he chose me as his victim because I am strong and resilient; he could very well have ruined another girl’s life. I told him what he put me through was unfair and I wish for no one to ever go through such an experience. Because there has been 2 months of silence between us, there was no exchange of expletives nor was there animosity. It was all very calm. However, although he listened to what I had to say, he said that we were both consenting adults in the situation and that we were BOTH to blame. I told him that although I did eventually agree to take a train and meet him in Paris, that I ALWAYS told him I felt it was a bad idea and that he should just meet me in London (where I was on Spring break) for dinner, and not stay together or anything like that. I reminded him how incredibly pushy and adamant he was about our whole unrealistic whirlwind relationship and meeting in Paris. He said although he admits it was wrong of him to propose the idea of Paris, he feels that as a 21 year old girl, I cannot put all the blame on him and that I should take half of the responsibility too- what are your thoughts on this guys? He also kept saying how Paris was a ‘bad idea’ and that the moment he entered the door and saw me he realized ‘just how crazy the whole idea was’. Are these just plain excuses? I feel like I am somehow being manipulated again into thinking he is a normal person again!!!
I then proceeded to ask him whether anyone ever told him that he may be a sociopath. He had never heard that term before so I read a quick profile of a sociopath: superficial charm, manipulative, controlling, self seeking, lack of realistic plans, lack of empathy, remorse and guilt, criminal versatility. Surprisingly, he was willing to admit that he felt he possessed many of the characteristics but was quick to shoot down the fact that he had never committed a crime before and emphasized how he ‘has never touched drugs, never smoked nor does he drink coffee.’ I also told him that the fact that he is 34 and his longest relationship ever was 2 and a half years encompasses the sociopath trait of ‘not being able to commit long term’, that and being ‘selfish’. He said that his main desire in life is to “get married and have a family as there is point being successful and making lots of money if its just for himself’. I told him he was delusional to have these desires about family and money when all he cares about is control, power and HIMSELF. He did not have much of a rebuttal to this and somehow I felt like what I was saying was settling into him.. He just kept telling me he thought I was ‘mature and intelligent for a girl my age’….
Although I felt incredibly liberated and at peace after talking to him and calmly telling him everything I felt (after months of counseling, healing and reading)…the days that followed I began to think how much of a REAL HUMAN he sounded on the phone… After months of concluding he was a monster and a sociopath,he sounded like a vulnerable and confused human with emotions on the phone. In fact, it made me feel sorry for him and even want to HELP him. I became distressed and confused..I wondered: “I thought sociopaths have no emotions????”…
Now I am stuck in a rut and don’t know how to move on from here..Was he manipulating me into thinking he is normal person after all? Where do I go from here? Was he perhaps a normal guy who got infatuated way too soon and was then hit with reality later? He keeps trying to play the good guy card and say that ‘he was being practical for both of us as there was no way it would have worked out because of the age diff and the long distance’..However, I reminded him of this ALL THE TIME way before Paris but he was still so adamant and certain it would work out. I know he has issues and he probably is a sociopath. He admits he likes control and that he frequently manipulates..however the fact that he was able to admit these flaws of his made him seem more harmless and more vulnerable to me…He seemed more human to me and I feel like this is subsequently undoing the healing process!
Thoughts please!
Hi Lara 🙂
I was where you are for a long time. Still don’t know whether the ‘man’ I knew was a spath, but your conversations with Y are very familiar. Manipulation, denial and deflection, it’s what some people do. Crazymaking behaviour.
It no longer matters to me whether the one I knew would be diagnosed as having a Cluster B personality disorder or not — he IS abusive and toxic and has left a trail of destruction behind him. I have known good men and the difference between them and his type is huge. I no longer care to be anywhere near anyone who would MAKE ME ASK THE QUESTION! A man shouldn’t make you wonder whether he’s pathological or not.
I’m glad you’ve been healing. Please don’t let his mind games set you back. Just let him go back into the ether. The more contact you have with men who make you ask the question, the worse you’ll feel.