Editor’s note: Lovefraud received this e-mail from a reader whom we’ll call “Lara.”
About three months ago, I met a 34-year-old German banker from Munich online (he added me on Facebook), after being very hesitant to speak to him, I gave into his persistence and we started a whirlwind romance over the phone for two months. He asked me to meet him in Paris and I did a few weeks ago, only to be dumped the day after we had sex together. I have been asking myself for answers but it was only recently that my friend brought to my attention that Y (German banker) exhibited the key traits of a sociopath.
Y added me randomly on Facebook and we had one mutual friend (A fellow Korean Uni student at my university in New York). I messaged him asking if we had met, only for him to say that he “met another Lara in NY who looks like me.” I believed him but then later found out he also added my friend and a few other girls (some of them my friends) randomly on Facebook. I thought this was very weird behaviour as I do not understand why a grown man would add random younger girls on his Facebook all of whom he does not know.
After further investigation, I found out he was messaging a few of these girls too asking to “speak on the phone as he was curious about their voice,” which is exactly what he said to me. I found this very unnerving—a grown man messaging a plethora of younger girls on the Internet asking to “hear their voice on the phone.” I confronted him about this and he got incredibly defensive and sent me an incredibly long and eloquent email explaining why he added us on Facebook as a “social experiment.” He also called me paranoid and asked me how I could be concerned about Internet predators when I had more than a 1000 friends on my Facebook.
Talked on the phone
After saying no many times to a phone conversation, my curiosity took over me and one day I agreed to a brief conversation. I thought that if he turned out to be a creep, I would just block his number on my phone. Our phone conversation turned out to be alright—he was a decent and pleasant guy. However, he continued to call me every single day from then on, along with numerous text messaging.
Soon, he told me he had grown incredibly fond of me and was using affectionate terms like “baby.” I asked him why he was interested in me, as I am a 21-year-old university student in New York, who he has never met before. He told me I underestimated myself and that he liked me because I am “well traveled, educated and down to earth.” I just could not grasp how a 30+ year old banker from Munich with good looks would stoop so low as to find a romantic interest with much younger women on the Internet.
Intimate questions
Soon after we started talking on the phone, he started to be very inappropriate with me, asking personal and intimate questions. He knew I was very uncomfortable with this but he still persisted. He would tell me to “think of falling asleep in his arms,” “our kiss,” and then he would ask me to “fantasize having sex with him.”
I don’t know how he found the confidence to talk to me in this manner, as I never reciprocated his affection or romantic interest. I was uncomfortable, so I messaged a friend of his, which I found through his Facebook list, and asked her whether I should trust him. She responded immediately with glowing reviews about Y, saying she was good friends with him when he lived in London and that he was incredibly charming, successful, social and that a lot of women fancied him. However, despite all his inappropriate behaviour, I was so completely charmed by his looks, intelligence and wit that my judgment was practically impaired.
Fly to meet him
A few weeks after this, Y asked me when my next university break was, as he wanted to see me. I had one coming up in a month, in middle March. He insisted that I fly to Munich to see him. I told him “absolutely not.” I would never stoop so low as to fly to Munich to stay with a stranger I have never met before (as a girl I need to maintain a level of dignity and self-respect). He was very persistent and said I could stay with him and that we would drive to the mountains and the outskirts of Munich to ski. I told him I would not do that, and if he really wanted to see me, he could come to New York. He told me he could not take time off work to fly to New York and so I had to go to Munich.
Anyway, I ended up deciding to go to London to visit my friends during my university break. I told him he could come to London to see me but he was not satisfied with that as “London is not a romantic city and I would be around all my friends and not spend time with him.” He said he was willing to compromise and that we should spend a “romantic weekend in paris—just him and I.”
I was very hesitant and all my close girlfriends told me not to do it, as they felt he was trying to isolate me to a place where I do not know people or speak the language. However at this point I had already fallen for him so I agreed to it. I told him I wanted to have my separate room from him but he was completely and utterly adamant that we share a hotel room together. During this point of our phone conversations, he was already telling me that he felt like he could fall in love with me, that he had told his mother about me and that I should move to Munich next year after I graduate from Uni. I couldn’t help but believe and fall for his words.
Going to Paris
Two weeks before Paris, Y and I had started talking considerably less as his company was working on a major buy-out and I was occupied with exams. He said it was good for our relationship, as it would make us miss each other more. However, as days went by, he completely stopped texting me or calling me. Before Paris, we spoke once on the phone and it was a very brief conversation ”¦ he asked me about my week and I told him “it was very stressful along with hormonal problems due to my period.” He responded by saying, “Wow perfect timing that your period is over in time for Paris.” I was very disturbed by his comment—out of everything I told him about my stressful week, he was only concerned and delighted to know that I had just ended my period in time for Paris. I started to question what exactly he wants from me. All our phone conversations were heavily intimate where he would try dig hard to get intimate information about me, and he would force me to say things to him that I was not comfortable with.
I flew to London three Thursdays ago on a red eye and then took the Eurostar to Paris. Cut to the chase, when I first saw Y opening the hotel door for him, I thought he was incredibly good looking and tall in person. Three minutes into our meeting, he pretty much threw me on the bed and tried to undress me. I told him to stop it as I was uncomfortable and that I wanted to spend time talking to him first. He seemed visibly annoyed and agreed to go have a drink with me near the Trocodero. During our drink he was very cold, distant and aloof. He was NOT affectionate with me at all.
We went back to the hotel room and I did sleep with him and then the next day at brunch in Paris, he told me “it was over and that he could not see a future with me as I was too young for him.” I was so stunned and confused. Where did this sudden realisation come about? Months after telling me he was completely “obsessed” with me? He said that he became “rational and decided it would never work for him.”
Kicked me out
I started acting irrationally and even told him that it was unfair that he did not give us a chance and that he made me feel so vulnerable by coming all the way to Paris only to sleep with him and get dumped. He became incredibly defensive and angry and told me to go back to London that same night. I was resistant as I was so confused but he pretty much kicked me out and booked me a train ticket.
During the painful last few hours with him, he acted like a complete chauvinist—making me feel bad that he wasted his weekend coming to Paris and that he could have been so many other things in Munich. He started calling his Paris friends on his mobile phone while I was next to him asking if they would have “dinner with him that night,” and while we were walking back to the hotel, he even used his knuckles and pushed me from behind as he complained that “I was walking too slowly.” He even said I should be grateful as he has so many “women on Facebook who are interested in connecting with him.” It is almost like he forgot that HE was the one who connected with me on Facebook and pursued me RELENTLESSLY.
Y did not even send me off to the train station—he asked me to drop him off at Gallerie Lafayette (a shopping mall) because it was on the way to Gare Du Nord (the train station). During this whole time, I was still so numb and confused about the situation that I did not even act disappointed or hurt by him. I even suggested we try to stay friends.
Numb and confused
I went back to London that Saturday night completely numb, confused and shocked by the situation. I gave my heart to this stranger I met on Facebook who convinced me that he was obsessed and was falling in love with me—only to fly to Paris and be used for sex and dumped the next day.
It has been a few weeks since the situation occurred and I have become more rational and objective. My friends are all very disgusted by Y’s behaviour and have been trying to let me realise that what he did was “unkind and unacceptable” and that he was basically an “Internet predator casting a wide net for young girls on Facebook.” I still have trouble seeing it that way, as I keep remembering the person I spoke to on the phone for months. I want to believe that everything he said to me was real.
However, the anger now has set in a little and I cannot believe he did that to me. We have not spoken since. Many times I feel like talking to him as I want answers—but I know this is wrong. I recently found out that Y asked another girl out on a date (one that he also added randomly on Facebook). Initially I was enraged and jealous that he moved on so fast. However, my friends try to tell me that as a sociopath, he has basically found his “next victim.”
There’s still a part of me that believes I was not good enough for him and did not meet his standards, which is why he discarded me. I also feel that perhaps I “deceived” him on Facebook, because he felt I was not as pretty in real life as I was online. I am trying to rid myself of those thoughts that are only self-destructive. I am taking it day by day ”¦ seeing a counselor. I cannot let this situation make me crumble in despair for it will be letting him win. I need to become stronger from this and move on with my life knowing that I learnt an invaluable lesson.
Lara – block his phone number, k?
Everything he said is just a load of crap. seriously.
I am sure others will comment and break out the behaviors he displayed (like gas lightning, mirroring, the pity ploy, etc.) so i won’t comment on them.
Do not listen to what he said – look at his actions. You don’t need that in your life.
Lara100:
In just one phone call, he has been able to destabilize you, causing you to doubt yourself.
That’s why No Contact is so important.
I dated older men when I was your age too.
When I was 21, I thought “older” men in their 30’s knew everything. They don’t!!
It’s just the impression that they feed to young girls, and the girls fall for it.
I recommend that you go NO Contact on this guy.
From what I’m reading in your 5:49 p.m. post today, I am worried that a few more calls from this man….and you will be back in Paris with him again.
Unfortunately, the ending will probably be the same.
So, why even go there, right?
Lara100,
This is what sociopaths do with ONE phone call. They put you right back in the fog again.
You think at the time that you might be able to get some closure by speaking your mind to him. But instead he speaks a few words and has you “thinking” again.
This is why N/C is so important. 5 minutes is all it takes for a sociopath to put a “spin” on REALITY.
But your reality is your truth. Don’t let him suck you in with words.
ACTIONS speak louder than words.
His actions = reality.
His words = Lies.
Dear Lara,
He showed you that he was UNFEELING, by his actions and the way he treated you. He i s LYING with his words, and trying to PLACE BLAME on you for “half the blame” of how HE ACTED.
I think it was UNwise for you to go there in the first place to meet a man you had never met in a foreign city, but if you talk to him any more it is “STOOPID” to the max! YOU KNOW what he is now, he has SHOWN you, so no contact, NO, NONE, NADA, ZIP, ZERO!!!! Unfriend him on your FB and block his calls to your phone numbers! Keep on working on YOU there is NO hope for creatures like him! ((((hugs)))) and God bless.
He made everything at HIS convenience. And he has to have you by him RIGHT NOW! You HAVE to come to him. You change your plans to be with him in Paris. You go against your standards because he says so.
If his GOOD stories don’t work, he turns on the pout, if that doesn’t work he turns on the temper.
He thinks stripping off your clothes in 1 minute and jumping on you (like a dog on a tree) is what you want. Cause that is what he wants, so he assumes it must be what you want.
You said the forbidden word “NO” to him. Well, that’s it — he is done. He has a slew of other prospects to use up. OUCH!!!!
Please don’t beat yourself up over this. We are average people and are NO MATCH for a sociopath. They mastered their predator skill all their life, while we were being law abiding citizens.
You are young and fortunate enough to have the technology of a computer to help you through this.
I didn’t have this as a young adult. Nor did I get the guidance growing up at home.
I ran into one spider web after the next. The predators saw me coming a mile a way.
lara, he isn’t gonna admit he’s a sociopath. in fact, just listening to anything he says in my opinion is a waste of time. sociopaths ALWAYS blame the victim, and obviously in this case what he did was wrong, he freakin’ love bombed you for sex, making you believe something that wasn’t real, then casually says that it was consensual? I think not.
Dear Lara,
I haven’t commented in a very long time. I’m mostly a lurker but I just couldn’t let this pass. You’re so very young with lots to learn so PLEASE learn the lesson your experience with this man is trying to teach you. When you went to Paris, you met the REAL person, not the one he pretends to be on the phone! THAT was the REAL man, the cold, dismissive one that left you feeling small, ugly, undesirable and used! The one that lured you to Paris for sex and then couldn’t wait to get away once the sex was over. Of course, this had nothing to do with you. He’s SICK! You would have never gone if he’d behaved this way in the beginning. That’s why I chose the word lured.
Someone said this before me but you were one of the lucky ones. I only wish my experience had been as brief as yours. Not that I’m making light of what happened to you, by any means. I’m so very sorry you were hurt by this monster. And I do have to say that by calling someone (a stranger to you) that claimed to know him wasn’t a foolproof way of determining his character. Certainly not enough to go flying off to Paris to meet him, no matter how romantic it sounded at the time. How many times have the neighbors of the serial killer, when interviewed, said “Gee, we thought he was such a nice guy! He always bought presents for our kids!” I’ll say again how very lucky you are….. think about it. Rejoice, have a party and thank your lucky stars, girl!!!!!
Now, on to my next piece of advice: Don’t speak to him ever again, please, please. And please don’t give him any information about your friends. Monsters like him really exist and we’ve ALL got up too close, got “mauled” and were left with life long scars. BLOCK him immediately! He ONLY called you because he was worried about himself, worried that someone was saying something bad about HIM! He didn’t call to really speak to you because he doesn’t care, no matter what he was prompted to say during your conversation.
He would have never discussed any of it if you had not said the things you said. A real man would have NEVER treated you that way in the first place. From what you said, he never apologized for anything, just repeated that you were to blame, too, even though you did nothing hurtful to him and he behaved like a complete A**.
Believe me, he’s spending plenty of time worrying about himself and you don’t need to waste any of your precious time and energy on him. LEARN the lesson life has taught you early on. You’ll know next time what to avoid, you’ll know the red flags and always listen to your gut. GOOD LUCK, honey and I’ll pray for you. I mean that.
Dear Lara,
I was catching up this morning and have gotten as far as your recent post about being contacted by the jerk who treated you HORRIBLY in Paris. I have not read any responses to it, but I look forward to doing so, as I know there will be some great support and advice.
It is VERY VERY difficult to ACCEPT THE TRUTH about these people, because given the chance to get “in” again – they are able to do what they did ALL over again – which is confuse, twist things around, say things we WANT to believe and convince us (falsely) that they are someone they really arent. Who is he? Well if you want to be honest with yourself – HE is THE GUY HE SHOWED YOU TO BE IN PARIS, as well as right before Paris (no contact) and right after Paris (no contact).
What is he doing now? He is drawn to the fact that you never contacted him again – because most women become confused and hurt and angry he is use to them lashing out at him, explaining how they feel to him, ad giving him the opportunity to play his game some more…
Please dont become one of the many who just cant get out or ahead of the mind games. Please trust your innerself – remember what he put you through in Paris FOR NO REASON. Remember that he walked into that room and showed no signs of thinking this was crazy – but rather literally tried to have sex with you the minute he walked in. And got put off when you said – can we go have a drink instead….
Something else that took me AGES to figure out…. when we are dealing with a normal healthy guy – we know that whats best is to express how we are feeling/how we felt about something that went wrong, we know and feel comfortable telling them what was inappropriate in hopes they accept and respond to it with apologies and understanding and wanting to grow and learn and change with us — yes this is normal interaction with normal healthy partners. But what you , and I and so many of us have to get our heads around is we erroneously believe that by speaking up to these toxic men that they are listening to us (THEY ARENT – THEY WILL SIT THERE SILENTLY – BUT THEY ARENT TAKING ANY OF IT IN – THEY ARENT CARING ABOUT WHAT YOU SAY – THEY JUST KNOW YOU HAVE TO TALK AND GET IF OFF YOUR MIND AND ONCE YOURE DONE THEY CAN TWIST IT TO BE THAT YOU ARE TO BLAME OR YOU ARE TO TAKE HALF THE BLAME AND THEY TAKE VERY LITTLE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR ACTIONS.
It feels good to say I said this to him and I said that… and by all means its important for us to get it out of our system.. unfortunately just not to the perpetrator who will never change and only manipulate and deny.. and this is something we all really need to grasp and accept. We arent dealing with real caring giving loving souls.
Another VICTIM already notified others of HIS TRUTH. He really and truly only called you for the other girls EMAIL to SHUT HER UP and he was willing to listen to the backlash from you as well as Im sure he was curious as to how in the world you were able not to contact him and give him hell like he is use to from so many many women.
If you are wondering and questioning anything about him. You already have the answer. He showed you. Never forget… he showed you… in Paris – thats him. He is EXACTLY what you feared from the very beginning. Your inner instincts were right. Dont get clouded and jaded by his words again.
We just dont want to believe its true. In fact we struggle with accepting that there can be people not like us and so many good people weve met along the way in our lives. But we have to accept and believe what happened – thats the only way we can be strong enough to move on and not allow any more contact.
Use abuse and manipulate me once – ITS ON YOU. Use abuse and manipulate me twice – ITS ON ME.
Dont become another joy ride/game player for him. Cut him off and out of your life. There are DECENT GOOD CARING GUYS OUT THERE. He is not one of them. He is a creep with thousands of random girls on his Facebook to choose from… dont be confused … be smart.
NO CONTACT. And remember explaining anything to him is worthless. Yes he will listen, or make you feel like he is — but he will not absorb it or care about it — like we would if someone was trying to explain something to us for the benefit of a better outcome and brighter days together — they just listen until you stop talking… and then they do their conning and manipulating while we are feeling a bit better that they “listened and perhaps understood and digested it” — NO NO NO NO NO.
They dont change. They dont want to change. They like what they do and how they get others to give themselves away or how they got others to believe their lies or how they got others to give them what they want/need ( a favor, an email address, money, etc..) or how they get others to give them sex.
ALL FOR NOTHING BUT FOR THE THRILL OF THE WIN OF RAPING ANOTHERS MIND, BODY AND SOUL…. That is the general make-up of a toxic loser – and he is one. Clearly.
Lara;
I am so sorry to learn that this person contacted you.
In my own terrible experience, I found I had little recovery when I concentrated on Jamie’s words and my connection with him. When I concentrated on his actions, I almost immediately began to feel liberated.
While I am not 100% healed, at least I was able to make an emotional break so that when I meet another person, I won’t be consciously or subconsciously “comparing” the new person to somebody who probably does not exist. Such is the charm of the sociopath — they “mirror” you to get what they want. Therein, comes the deepness of connection.
Like yourself, I am glad I learned about sociopaths and found Lovefraud. Still, it took me months to accept that Jamie is a sociopath, even though he has all the traits consistent of a sociopath, save for criminal behavior. To that, I simply did not know enough about him and his younger days…
Do what I did. Forget the your empathy and forgiveness. Be stark, honest and concentrate on his actions, not his words.
“He called me out of the blue because he wanted to return a piece of clothing that I had left with him in Paris and also he needed help because the girl that he had added (whom he had found me through) had apparently messaged one or two of his female friends on Facebook telling them he is a “creep who adds Asian girls on Facebook”. So he wanted to know whether I had her email address or phone number…”
DO NOT THINK FOR ONE MINUTE HIS CALL HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH YOU.
The clothing was a ploy to get what he really wanted, the your friend’s email address or phone number. At that point, you should have hung up on him, called your friend and warned her.
That he tried blame shifting is not surprising. Jamie did the same to me. Remorseless sociopaths always shift blame.
In my last 1 and 1/2 years, I have been hurt and I also hurt somebody. The person I hurt is a very nice guy, honest, open, loving and without baggage. The reason the relationship could not work was due to issues of distance (I live in New York, Nicolay lives in St.Petersburg, Russia) income (he would be dependent upon me), language barriers… You get the point.
I know I hurt Nicolay very much. In all of our conversations, I never tried to shift blame to Nicolay. Jamie blame shifted to me.
I told Nicolay I was deeply sorry that I hurt his feelings and have the greatest respect for him, I never received even the slightest “I am sorry” from Jamie.
To this day, I wish there was a way things could have worked out with Nicolay. I doubt Jamie gives me much thought, except on his flights to New York where Jamie’s jealousy might eat at him, as I have two things he wants very much: Manhattan and mojo.
Regarding Nicolay, I take 100% blame for hurting his feelings. I should have known that a relationship with him would not be practical. The fact that I hurt Nicolay’s feelings weighs very heavily on me.
But *we* honestly tried and together, *we* openly discussed the possibilities and difficulties of our relationship. *We* had a dialog, not a unilateral decision by one party. There is another sign of a sociopath: they make rapid, unilateral decisions regarding a relationship. They leave your head spinning.
For over two months you were doing the correct thing and he unilaterally popped back into your life. Now you need to do the right thing for your own well-being. Block his number, unfriend him on Facebook, warn your friend and get support from here and elsewhere. Forget the “poor him…”
That logic is like feeling sorry for the crocodile who bit your arm off because he was hungry…
And don’t feel sorry about putting the crocodile to sleep…
Lara,
The advice above is spot on.
Why do we, after every weird/hurtful/inhuman thing we knew they did, still try to paint the picture different?
I still struggle a little with this, but I am getting better: I have a ‘user’ (at the least) niece. someone I cant help, cant do anything about because I KNOW it wouldnt be like reaching out to someone ‘normal’ in need…she’d bite me…that’s sometimes normal..(here comes the not normal) and suck everything out… then move on…as if it were nothing… infact as if I had done something to her. I sometmes ‘worry’ about her, but it’s getting more intellectual (i.e she’s going to be doing this forever!.. and there’s nothing I can do…) than emotional.
The sociopath I knew this week has ‘dropped in’ on an on line profile of mine… second time in the last few months (blocking in progress)… I still go down the path of thinking a little about why…is he missing me…? hell no. a whim. possibly. A whim from a crazy baby that I will not respond to…because responding is feeding the crazy baby with my self..?and to sound paranoid (but not really, probably the most spot on) god knows what his agenda might be (seriously – god knows!) in me responding …. the sky’s the limit!
anyway… here is a good song:) I like the lines: “Never fall in love with potential, ’cause you can see with your own eyes, all the pretty faces and sorry words, can take away your pride.”
xx
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4XXkz4iFUM