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LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: One-year anniversary of the SNAP that was my sanity speaking

Editor’s note: Lovefraud received the following email from a reader who uses the name “DamselflyNOTdistressed.”

OCTOBER 24, 2012 – Today is the one-year anniversary of my breakup from a SPath and the “nervous breakdown” that followed. My body and life at that moment felt viscerally like the total collapse of everything I thought I knew about myself. It was undoubtedly one of the worst moments of my life. And I am grateful.

It had only been five months, and what a grand rollercoaster ride! We were fellow bohemians, and we met as nude models in a grand tableau vivant performance by an emerging and prolifically talented artist. Though my third time participating in such an exquisite spectacle, it was still a peak experience, and I was stimulated to the max by my NYC life full of performance and activism. I was fulfilled and happy, but unknowingly vulnerable to his charming overtures because of the undercurrent of loneliness that haunted me.

He was 12 years my senior, had a firm and chiseled body, extremely intelligent and charming, was a martial arts master, and had stories for days about his exciting “past life” as a triple PhD and special forces agent. I immediately found him strange, but then again as an eccentric, I always joked about finding my own “weirdo” [be careful what you ask for]. My own grandmother called me peculiar, so who was I to judge? He attributed his strangeness to “childhood autism” that he claims he overcame. He had a curious name, which I found the definition of to mean “to deceive.” I should have done more serious research to find out who he really was, but the name alone proved prophetic enough. I explored his strangeness with superficial fascination and I was eventually entranced and seduced.

Unexpectedly reserved

We went from epic chats and phone calls, to cross-continental dating, unexpected and generous gifts, and the possibilities of the most lascivious sex life I ever imagined. I thought the latter would excite me but I found myself unexpectedly reserved. Hindsight tells me that this was the seed of my subconscious mind saying “NO. This is NOT right, so REIN IT IN.” We were going to go into business together, he had everything we needed to start my dream of having a production company, and on paper it all looked PERFECT. Yet I had a nagging feeling that I could not depend on him to build anything and that there was no real plan.

After five intense months of life together filled with nude modeling, motorcycle rides, gypsy travel [together and apart], and marriage plans, the final last weeks turned suddenly sour. After seven consecutive weeks together followed by ten days alone and away from him in NYC, something within me shifted significantly. Not that there wasn’t trouble in paradise in the beginning. Our fights from his gaslighting and paranoia were scarlet-colored flags that I dismissed as residual baggage from his complicated past “traumas,” which included an “abusive childhood,” “injury as a special forces POW,” a first wife whose family abducted his children and molested them, and a second ex-wife who “tried to kill him.” As a lifelong loner, I felt suffocated whenever he would protest or question whenever I wanted to be to myself or my own thoughts. By the time month five rolled around, much had gotten under my skin but I couldn’t put words on it.

Horrendous week

We had a horrendous week together in NYC full of bittersweet good-byes to all my friends and palpable tension between us. The arguments had become daily. He had become so overbearingly opinionated that any idea of mine that was contrary to his led to ugly and condescending disagreements, which made me increasingly irritable and distant. I had already had a previous engagement to a Malignant Narcissist five years prior, and many of the fights felt like past triggers. I began feeling trapped and marooned.

When we landed back down south to my home and exploded into yet another argument based on his strange insinuations, I blurted “Sometimes I just CAN’T STAND YOU!” When he jumped toward his bag and yelled, “Well, then I’m leaving!” I immediately panicked since my conscious mind and all the circumstances we’d created had me convinced that I was SUPPOSED to be with him. After all, he always said that HE was the ONLY ONE who would understand and LOVE me. So I rushed to his bag and grabbed it, preventing him from leaving.

We tussled for it, and I ran with it to my bedroom, trying to eat the words I’d just vomited and make him either stay or take me with him, even though I was utterly repulsed by him at the same time. But my final escalation of disgust and distraught came after he punched me in the stomach. It wasn’t as hard as he could have but was enough to stun me momentarily. After I got my breath and realized what had happened, I went to a place darker and redder than I’d ever been before. I became primal rage.

The rage

I screamed for my mother to call the police, and that he had punched me in the stomach, since she wasn’t in the room to witness. He stammered for a quick second then denied it had happened. I glared directly into the devil’s eyes, unafraid, and proceeded to jump on him, kick him, scratch him, smack him on the back of the head, bust his lip, and bite him on the face until he escaped from me out the back door.

And in those two seconds in the middle of the night between his truck jerking backwards out of my mother’s driveway and screeching off down the road and physically out of my life for good I couldn’t decide whether to scream, “COME BACK!” or “FUCK YOU!” So I said nothing.

The following days and weeks, I could not stand myself. I could not eat. I could not get out of bed. I could not bathe. I could not understand what had just happened. And instead of zero contact, I did not know better and allowed him to keep tormenting my mind and spirit from 500 miles away. He’d say he forgave me, then he didn’t. Maybe we could work it out. Then he’d “remind” me that I’d “attacked him viciously and unprovoked.” The punch to my stomach never came up but he swore I’d “scarred him for life.” He said he wanted me to feel better; then he would tell me that I was crazy and had Borderline Personality Disorder. Between my own guilt and his sick mind games, I was feeling worthless in stereo and took myself to the emergency room for a psychiatric evaluation.

Fight for sanity

The four weeks that followed the brawl was a fight to save my sanity and life, and I made it a full-time job. I vociferously researched online for all the counseling resources I could afford. I had the love and support of my family, especially my mother. I spent a week away at a zen center to learn to meditate and nurse my soul. I was at times afraid and ashamed, but I ploughed through my pain and bureaucracies until I ended up with the dean of a major medical institution as my psychiatrist. Quickly brushing past the incident that triggered my depression, my doctor and I both agreed that the issue at hand to deal with was NOT HIM and his rude and unqualified diagnosis, but my own mental health and the judgment that has left me prey to such a situation in the first place.

On Thanksgiving, exactly a month later, I had the wisdom, strength, and courage to declare it completely over, changing my status on Facebook after everyone assumed we were moving in together and making wedding plans. He called shortly thereafter and left a nauseating message on my mother’s answering machine about how I did it the “wrong” way and he had planned to announce our break-up the “right” way. Whatever. But still riddled with guilt, I wrote a fateful letter of apology to a friend of his [let’s call him “Charles”] whom I truly liked and appreciated as a person, and was led to believe by my ex-nutjob that my behavior had also caused disruption and drama into his life as well. Charles called me shortly thereafter, confused as to why I was apologizing to him. Our conversation led to an ongoing watershed of information that revealed and confirmed why the SPath had gotten to my heart and mind so quickly yet under my skin so deeply.

Charming psychopath

“Haven’t you heard of a charming psychopath? Look it up on Google. I’m not joking. He charms the socks off of people, like a cult, and lies about EVERYTHING. But he ain’t right in the head. There’s no one there. And when I saw the scratch on his face, I knew you’d figured it out. And I can’t say anything, but you might want to go to the doctor and get yourself checked out. A lot went on when you weren’t around. That’s all I can say because I am scared of him and don’t want any trouble.”

My curiosity overwhelmed me and my recovery took a turn into discovery. I finally did the due diligence that I failed to pursue at the beginning. I simultaneously researched “charming sociopath” and his past. I ran into a dear friend and jokingly mentioned I might have dated an SPath, with utter seriousness she said, “Me too,” then discussed her divorce and showed me her online research about SPaths. I felt like my life almost became a Lifetime Network movie.

Discovered Lovefraud

I spoke to people from his past who spoke only under the promise of anonymity and confided that they have severed all contact with him and the reasons why. I discovered LOVEFRAUD.com, which explained why his background check proved zero college and military service, why I was showered with so many unsolicited gifts, why he made such serious claims against the people who saw behind his mask, and why he wanted me to believe he was the only man good for me. The more I learned via LOVEFRAUD about the SPath, the more my stomach churned. Of course I should have known that normal people don’t go around claiming they want to kill their family, ex-wives, and IRS agent on a regular basis. I realized I had slept with a stranger, an enemy. And then came the liberation of realizing that the man I THOUGHT I was in love with actually doesn’t exist.

I knew he had already moved on to a woman younger than all his children, not even old enough to drink. She would be easier for him to manipulate without a full sense of self, and for a brief while I was intent on trying to contact and save this young woman, under the legitimate guise of getting back my things in his possession that he spitefully refused to surrender. It was a waste of time, as I knew she was even more vulnerable, quickly under the same spell and too far gone. I had already been devalued and discarded, and she had probably been convinced to want to kill me the same way he made me hate all the women from his past who had “wronged” him. The rare thing he said about himself that proved true was his marriage to a family of pedophiles and their rape of his children. I can only imagine how much of them rubbed off onto him after ten years of marriage in his 20’s. SPath and I were more age-appropriate, but then again I still get carded trying to buy almost anything requiring an ID. I believe that was part of his attraction to me, but I don’t want or need a daddy.

It took about three to four months for the bulk of the psychic trauma of my SPath to subside, and a few more months for the residual ickiness of it all the rinse away. Seeing his picture or name no longer triggers me. Thanks to my doctor and self-care, I resurrected myself from depression back to joy, with stronger awareness and clearer boundaries for myself and potential relationships. I acknowledge how lucky I am to have made my discovery before we actually moved, got married, and potentially conceived a child. My irritability and rage were my subconscious mind and spirit protecting me from what my conscious mind did not yet comprehend. I looked the devil directly in its eyes and know now that I am a warrior spirit surrounded by light. I am grateful for the support of family, friends and professionals who buoyed me until I came to my own solid ground, intact, with greater wisdom, peace, and the best present I could ever have: MYSELF.

Happy anniversary to ME!


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63 Comments on "LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: One-year anniversary of the SNAP that was my sanity speaking"

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Damselfly, thank you for your incredible story. I’m so sorry that you had such horrible experiences with that spath, but I’m grateful that it wasn’t for a longer or more committed duration, like a contract of marriage.

I’m also glad that you found your way to this site.

I completely identify with the red rage of wrath. I’ve never experienced anything like it, in my entire lifetime, and that includes my experiences with the first abusive exspath. This second experience took me to a place so dark and full of rage that I don’t even know that person.

I’m so glad that you’re out and recovering. Thanks, again, for sharing your experiences.

Brightest blessings

Dear Damselfly,

Welcome to LF and congratulations for your anniversary and TOWANDA for you.!! Good article and thanks for sharing! So glad you are on sollid ground again.

Damselfly,

I normally don’t cheer a person for physical violence but I did for you! LoL

I think it’s because I get it. It would sound like an overreaction to those who don’t. I can tell you are a kind person just by the attention you gave yourself and his friend who he had you convinced you had caused grief. I am very glad he was as honest as he could be with you.

Psycho father of my child from a “fling” was conceived via contraception sabotage. His friend warned me. This friend knew him since school age and said “I don’t know why but he’s picked you and you need to be careful” with a few subtle hints. I would bet he wouldn’t know the label of “charming psychopath” but he definitely knew I was dealing with a problem and he would’ve probably said the same thing if there were scratches on his face.

I am sorry you were taken to the depths of hell but like you, I am glad it was relatively brief and a very good learning experience.

Welcome

one/joy_step_at_a_time

Damselfly – one of the things you bring up in your article is the thing she projected on to other people. From my time here, I understand these are ‘tells’ about the spath’s own behaviour. look at all the bad things he said about other people – he was talking about himself.

Also, have you read the book, ‘The Betrayal Bond’? it could be very useful.

I had a similar experience in finding out the guy I dated 3 months was a spath. I was fresh out of it and hurting badly. I told my petsitter the story. Her eyes got really big, and I could see that I had triggered some memory for her. She told me to go to the computer and google “seductive sociopath”. That’s when I found out what he was and then found LF. Thankfully for you it only lasted 5 months. For me, it was only 3 months, but it took nearly a year to recover. It’s been over 4 years now, and the thought of him never crosses my mind unless I’m discussing it here. I wish you the best in your healing journey. I enjoyed your well-written and articulated story.

Damselfly–Congratulations! Your strength and determination to heal and to take care of yourself are inspiring.
Stargazer–I guess we can be most helpful in telling people who are ready to hear it where they can access educational and healing resources. Those ah-ha! moments were invaluable to me, and they came as a result of other people’s stories. The first time, I was telling a friend from grad school about my non-relationship and he said he’d just heard an interview on NPR with Ronson about the Psychopath Test. He said that the guy I was talking about fit the bill precisely and recommended I do some research. The second time was so different from the first that I didn’t see it coming. It wasn’t until I went alone to a therapy appointment Spath and I were supposed to attend because of his (feigned) mental illness, that I had another lightbulb go on. The therapist listened to my story, then said that he thought this man was a sociopath and that I needed to sever all contact immediately. I was, in that moment, actually joyful! It’s such a relief to feel those first bits of clarity. Knowledge is power.
On a similar note, I have a younger friend who knows how psychopaths have affected my life. Last summer, she somewhat jokingly asked if I’d use my skills as a psychopath magnet to determine whether her new boyfriend fit the bill. She told me about his inability to discuss his feelings, etc. I laughed and told her that most men have this difficulty–it’s the smooth ones who tell you what you want to hear that you have to watch out for! When I met her boyfriend, we told him what we’d been talking about. He immediately engaged with the conversation, then said he was concerned that his cousin might be a sociopath. As much as I try to raise awareness, I also try to stop the gratuitous use of these words when they don’t actually apply, as I think it harms the cause. So I asked him why. He said that his cousin and best friend had always exhibited behaviors that were questionable. Then, when he was a psychology student and the two of them lived together, his cousin had come home with a scan of his brain after participating in a study. He was excited because they’d called him back for further testing. Apparently, his brain reacted the same way to cute kittens as it did to dead bodies. And he was excited/curious about this rather than worried. He asked if I had any advice on how he might approach his cousin to find out what he understood or didn’t understand about his own brain and behaviors. I was so happy to have met someone who was open to discussing these things, who didn’t assume that I was some crazy scorned woman making things up, that I missed the obvious signs. Normal people don’t believe us. Only people who have been through it really understand what we’ve been up against. When I next spoke with my friend, she in fact revealed that they’d broken up and that he was probably a sociopath–but despite knowing my stories, it took her so long to figure it out because he’d already won her over and set her up to see him in a certain way. The only reason she figured it out was that she was reading a book at the time, “Mistakes Were Made (But Not by Me),” and it made her aware of how her own perceptions were skewing her beliefs about what was actually happening. Ultimately, her ex admitted that there was something wrong with him. That he’d never had a relationship that lasted longer than six months. That he though love was a construct and emotions were b.s.. That his entire family believed he’d screw it up because they all knew he was “infected” with something strange. That he pretended to be in love and went through the motions because he thought he could finally have what he always thought he was supposed to have and deserved to have. And as she struggled with all of this, he thought that they should let their dogs play together as if nothing had happened. This guy has a Master’s from Yale, he moved to be with my friend, he’s good-looking, intelligent, and–at first–said and did all the right things. He was too good to be true. And as we all now know, if something is too good to be true, it probably is. My friend ignored that feeling in her gut–the one that caused her to actually ask me if I thought this guy was a sociopath. She wanted the picture he painted to be a reality. But what I find most interesting about all this is that my stories weren’t what tipped her off. What tipped her off was this particular book. And I think it has to do with the basic premises of the book itself, with the idea that when people’s beliefs are challenged, they tend to believe more strongly. When faced with evidence to the contrary, we construct justifications. We wrap ourselves in the web. Comparing my story to hers wasn’t going to affect her perception, but presenting impersonal evidence about how the human brain functions allowed her to dissect her own beliefs and come to her own conclusions about her relationship. I can’t recommend this book enough!

Hilary, great post. Your story is so interesting and filled with red flags and tells.

I loved that book too. And I reviewed it on my website
http://180rule.com/book-review-mistakes-were-made-but-not-by-me-why-we-justify-foolish-beliefs-bad-decisions-and-hurtful-acts/
because it is SO good.

Just the fact that your friend brought up the question of whether her bf was a spath, is enough to indicate that she had sensed something in her gut. Her intellect didn’t want to believe it though. Then when you brought up the subject to him, he immediately pointed the accusing finger at his “cousin”. That was a red flag, spaths always try to shift blame or accuse others in order to get out from under the microscope.

Yes, I’ve found that there are 2 kinds of people who believe us about spaths: those who have been through it, and spaths themselves. Spaths will sometimes pretend to have been victimized by spaths, and some spaths actually HAVE been. Spath on spath violence is not so unusual, especially if the weaker spath is female or geeky.

The spath encounter is the most confusing thing that will ever happen in our lives. Furthermore, it is going to happen many times because they are EVERYWHERE. That book, Mistakes Were Made But Not By Me, should be required reading in schools. Understanding how we are confused and deluded by spaths is the first step in learning to spot them.

Happy Anniversary Damselfly ~!
And thankyou for sharing your story. So many time’s when I read new stories, so much make’s sense about my own. Several thing’s you said gave me chill’s, you felt that same confusion and sense of loss, at wanting him to leave and begging him to stay at the same time. Oh my how I relate to that mind f–k.
And yes the relationshit did end up revealing much about myself that needed to be dealt with..but we ain’t gonna call em up and thank em for that revelation. It’s kinda like runnin barefoot and steppin on a rusty nail, we learn to wear our shoe’s..

Damselfly-Congratulations, Luckily you only was involved 5 months, mine was 5 1/2 years, $12,000.00 physical/mental health, I have been away from him almost a year, but was in phone contact a few months ago (just to witness his lies with my newfound realizations) You said your life was like a “Lifetime movie” I hear that a lot, It still infuriates me that they just keep getting away with it, all we can do at this point is heal and try to spread the word, I feel like it is my duty, I have helped 1 friend for sure, everything for her makes sense now!! Lovefraud saved my life!! I appreciate all the stories and support from everyone here!!

My spath of 18 months discarded me on September 11? Cooincidence????? I think not. It is a day I will always remember I survived, unlike the other tragedy that killed so many innocent people. It is our vulnerability and our innocence that make us targets for these hideously sick and twisted people.

DLD1965:

They took away our innocence. That’s a good thing so we will never be vulnerable again to these wolves. I know I won’t be. I had lunch with a male, platonic friend today and he was on me about why I am not dating and I should put myself out there and I said no way. He even suggested online dating…haha!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was like GTFOH (Get the F*ck Outta Here!) No way…NO online dating. I don’t care what anyone says about it being safe and there are some nice people on there. I am sure there are, but I’m not going there. Soooooo, anyway, I might be alone, but at least I will be safe and won’t get entangled by all the crap. And with all the crap right now with my mom, there is going to be no room for a man anyway.

Sorry that you were discarded on 9/11. He is one idiot bastard.

Damselfly, I wanted to share my anniversary, this evening. A year ago, at this very moment, I was hysterical and telling my soon-to-be-ex-mother-in-law that I had attacked her son in a fit of rage after I had discovered that he had been having an affair. Not just ANY affair, but he’d been involved with such sexual deviances that it still causes me to feel nauseous to recollect.

My fit of rage resulted in weeks of the exspath’s denials that he had been engaging in his violent fantasies with any other person or people, in spite of the physical evidence that I had discovered. Condoms. His & her’s rubber and plastic fetish wear. Extraordinarily violent DVD collection with jacket photos that were so disturbing that I nearly vomited on myself when I saw them – and, no, I never put one of the DVD’s in the player to see what he was viewing. Books with imagery that was sexually violent and indicated a clear hatred of women, bondage, torture, branding, gang-rape, electrocution, and veiled necrophilia.

A year ago, tonight, I was inside a police station being fingerprinted and charged with domestic violence after I uncovered evidence that morning that the exspath had been going with another person to a nearby city to have……fun. This person was clearly named in the email, and he clearly lied to HER about why he wasn’t going to attend their planned party – a party with dozens of S&M enthusiasts who pay a LOT of money to attend.

After I flew into a rage that was so dark, red, and out of character for me, I never saw the exspath outside of a courthouse, again.

After he left, I discovered the most hateful betrayal, of all. Not only had he lied to me about who and what he was before we ever even began dating, but he neatly disposed of over a quarter of a million dollars that belonged solely to me through coercion and outright forgeries.

Happy Anniversary. Tonight marks one year since I last saw that slime, and I hope that his new “somebody” who, oh-by-the-way, isn’t even the woman that he was engaging in the S&M stuff with, has a stronger stomach and bigger bank account than I did. She’s going to need it.

He’s a rotten, stinking deviant predator, and he’s going to go down in flames, someday. I may not be there to see it – hell, I might even be dead. But, that person is gone, gone, gone, and I never, ever, EVER have to wipe his nose or tolerate his childish demands, ever again.

Yes. Happy Anniversary, indeed.

And, to clarify: the person that i was a year ago is not the same person that I am, today. I don’t “like” either of those people. One a terrified pile of guilt and shame. The other a suspicious and jaded individual.

Somewhere, at some point, I believe that I’ll be okay. I don’t FEEL okay, but recovery is a long, hard process, and I need to be patient with myself.

Damselfly, thank you so much for your article.

Brightest blessings

Truthspeak:

I can’t believe it’s been a year already…wow. You are a survivor. Please be good to yourself, OK?? HUGS.

damselflyNOTdistressed

Hi everyone —

I can’t thank you enough for the community and forum to share my story. After realizing I was upon a year, the constant silent strength I have gleaned from LF over the year, and after being moved deeply to tears by Cappuccino Queen’s horrible loss, I felt obligated to post this to hopefully prevent even just one future life being needlessly destroyed or lost. Even just sharing this website over the year with close friends has led to other “eurekas” by people who did not realize they were dealing with nutjobs. I learned to filter and pluck many people out of my lives while pulling the real and essential souls into my life much closer.

Sometimes I shudder with shame and embarrassment that I was so gullible and so quickly. On the other hand, a previous two-year engagement with a Narcissist that I extended into an additional two more years of emotionally-draining entanglement was adequate subconscious preparation for this experience and probably nipped it into the 5-month bud. Had I not endured the previous relationshit, I’d have not had the body memory to awaken and alert me that everything was amiss. The fateful week apart from IT was enough time to start getting my emotional compass back. It explained why IT was so needy and clingy, never wanting to allow me the space to get my bearings back and see what it really was.

I have a bad habit of dating men born on 9/11. Both exes, the narcissist and the nutjob, are BOTH born on the infamous day of tragedy. I have not yet returned to dating and I may just swear off Virgos entirely after all this. It still sickens me that IT is now with a young woman 30 years its junior, and of course IT wasted no time and eventually declared the new relationship on Facebook about two weeks after the incident. IT is a consummate love-bomber and builds worlds of devotion to ITS object of “love” — but what I would have lost and now she is losing [self] is irreplaceable. When I remember my 20’s, I know despite how intelligent I was, I was NOT prepared for SPath jedi mind tricks, so I pray for her.

TRUTHSPEAK — Your story has eerie parallels to mine. I thought I was sexually open-minded. But when we went to an adult swinger/S&M club together, even though I always had my curiosities I was very reserved, which led to a confusing fight [gaslighting]. First IT accused me of trying to initiate or invite someone for sex when I absolutely did NOT, which led to a volatile argument. But then IT seemed almost tragically disappointed that I did NOT engage in any sexual or kinky activity with others. Being sexually open-minded and sex positive is NOT the same thing as wreckless abandon and utter hedonism. There is also an urgently important difference between being comfortable in one’s skin and being a full-time professional exhibitionist. SPaths push the boundaries of EVERYTHING sane or scintillating and will turn your stomach on anything good, if you let them.

Damsel fly,

You are so right, you can be OPEN MINDED without being so “open minded” that your BRAINS FALL OUT!

Damselfly, I endured sexual abuse with the first exspath who was addicted to porn. So, the second exspath was well aware that I have no use for porn or violent sex. What other people are comfortable with has nothing to do with me. But, going into a relationship with the belief that I was emotionally, physically, financially, spiritually, and sexually safe was an illusion. I had no idea that the second exspath was interested in veiled necrophilia, torture, murder, and rape. It was such a shock to me that I was unalbe to sleep in the same bed with him after the discovery – literally. How could I even touch someone by accident that found genital mutiliation to be a turnon?

So…..yes, they take what might be personally “taboo” and stretch the edge of that proverbial envelope. And, there was NO way I was going to even pretend an interest in that to please him. Oh, hell-to-the-NO.

And, here I am, today. I don’t know if I will EVER be able to find sex appealing, again. I know that it’s irrational because sex can be a delightful aspect of a healthy relationship. Hopefully, I’ll get over this aversion and feel like a human being, again.

UGH

Truthspeak:

You will. You will feel it again someday. You will heal and be able to have a relationship again I am sure of it.

Personally, for me, Truthspeak, when I read your above post at 3:28 pm, I could relate to every single word you were saying
and it triggered a lot of that nightmare for me, in my thoughts,
all over again. I am so so so sorry that there are such horrid
people in this life.

Also, personally, for me, I have been SUFFICIENTLY
shocked into NEVER wanting ANYONE to touch me,
NOT EVER AGAIN. My life and my safety zone is
more important to me. Seriously.

I am good in my cave.

Dupey, I’m in the cave, too. It’s very difficult for me to describe how I “feel” about myself and sex, now. I used to have a healthy libido and creative approach. But, in retrospect, he was a dud as far as sexual ability went, and he didn’t want to learn anything new. The only thing that would get him interested in sex is if I would agree to wear fetish clothing. He never responded to “lovemaking.” Just sex.

Makes me ill just to think about it…..

I can’t believe I just typed that. Well, it’s true. There were never any other indications of the violent interests – no requests or “demands.” EW what a sick f^ck he is! EUGH!!!

truthspeak

(hugs))

And Truthspeak, that guy sounds really nasty… I’m so sorry.

Sunflower:

Unless a person has children, the spath shouldn’t even be aware that his/her ex got a new boyfriend/girlfriend or a new job. Example…mine doesn’t know anything about me and I know nothing about him. So he couldn’t “hook” me again after learning of my moving on. Again, don’t give them sex…don’t give them something to hook you with.

I noticed my earlier rant about staying out of bed was not very popular. That’s OK…

Sunflower:

Exactly…”it depends on the spaths interest/anger after discarding.” Mine apparently doesn’t care at all…it’s over. He won’t come back which is a good thing, but it still hurts. The stalking is horrible, but on the flipside when you KNOW they don’t care at all and there is no stalking, that hurts, too. Oh, well…either way there is pain.

Yes I can relate to that. If they stalk it can somehow (self manipulation) confirm that what once was may have been real.

Sunflower:

Yep. That is what was happening in my mind when we used to keep in contact all the time. On, off, on, off. I remember even telling myself that he must really care because he kept coming back…he kept contacting me (no sex). HA, right. How stoooooopid I was. But at least it was still a thread that connected us. Now there is nothing. Again, I realize that is a good thing, but…

I know, that’s how they keep you hooked, they manipulate what’s allready manipulated. I fell for it my self… I think healthy people also comes back if they’ve done mistakes, just depends on the circumstances, so it’s easilly mistaken.

I’m so sorry, I if i read you correctly it seems like you still are hurting really bad. Do not ever tell you self how stupid you are, because YOU ARE NOT. You believed in love. Simple as that. He took advantage of it, he’s the one being stupid for not being able to see how lucky he was. He had a real chance of love and he gambled it away – just as he will in the future.

The thread that connected you? Can you explain that? Trauma bond? In a spaths mind there is no connection. The connection was all yours. The only connection your spath had was the hooks or chords if you will call it.

Louise, do you mean the comment of yesterday during the discussion about weird/special/normal?

Sunflower:

Yes, I still hurt. Not anywhere near how I used to…OMG…that was awful…thought I was literally not going to survive. So it’s nothing like that now, but it’s still a hurt. Of course some days are better than others, but yesterday and today he is on my mind more for some reason and there’s no rhyme nor reason to it.

You are right I know. I really wasn’t stupid. I just thought I found something real…someone I loved more than anything, but it was only a game to him so yes, you are right. I guess I wasn’t stupid, just accepting.

Yes, that is the thread I mean, but it was only in MY mind. It’s something I THOUGHT we had.

darwinsmom:

I was talking about the comment I made about staying out of bed. I realize we are all human and we ALL have desires including myself, but where is people’s self control? I have a really strong drive, but I haven’t had sex in almost three years.

I think I understand where you are coming from. Your talking about integrety right? You don’t get how people can just sleep togheter just to satisfy a physical need because it has nothing to do with love or respect? Your’re thinking about the pure egosentric need. Well my answer is people confuse love and sex. Many think it’s the same. In my generation “sex is love”. Sad really…

Yeah I get it, it still stings. Does for me too, but it gets easier day by day.Never thought I’d survive it, but here I am 🙂

Sunflower:

Integrity, yes. And much more. I have to go now, but I really want to continue this conversation. I’ll be back! You will probably be in bed by then, but please check back when you can. Thanks!

Louise,

The last time I had sex was over a year ago, and that’s when I decided to swear off casual sex for good.

I’ve been a free bird from my 29 until 35 though and don’t have any regrets about it. Before that I had slept with only 3 men, 2 of which I loved. Still even in the free casual bird years I had on average sex once or twice a year or so (with safety precautions), and still felt pretty much a celibate. I never felt harmed, I never harmed someone else because of it. And I learned a lot in that time: a much better self assurance regarding my femininity and body. And I know when sex hurts physically it sure ain’t my fault! I used to think it was me with my first boyfriend I was together with for 5.5 years. And well it was fun.

I can’t and won’t do that anymore. I learned what I could learn out of it. And it isn’t fun anymore for me at all. It would just trigger me. I simply cannot be intimate anymore that way with a stranger of whom my mind now says, “stranger means no reason to trust him”. Meanwhile, I’m totally fine with my self chosen celibacy right now. It doesn’t hurt me, nor does it hurt someone else.

That’s my opinion about casual sex. 🙂

Darwin’smom,

I agree about the “casual” sex, or “friends with benefits” because unfortunately we (humans) have a hormonal reaction to sex, it releases bonding hormones which DO effect us and our thinking and our feelings.

Psychopaths have been shown to have fewer RECEPTORS for these hormones so therefore are less able to “bond” in response to having sex with someone.

To me, sex is reserved as a BONDING RITUAL between people who love and trust each other. So that lets out casual sex or sex with a “friend with benefits” because to me sexual intimacy is also emotional intimacy.

This isn’t about sex being “sinful” or anything else, just that I KNOW I BOND WITH WHOMEVER I AM HAVING SEX WITH and so it must be someone I can trust and who loves and trusts me. Casual sex might feel good for the moment, but ultimately it would be hurtful for ME.

Oxy,

What kept me from bonding much during those free bird years was that I had a reactive commitment fear then. Because of that I was a closed book to my lovers. It kinda works like “grey rock”. The possible players and spaths amongst them had no info from me to create a mirrored mask. So they soon slithered away, not in an ugly way though. Anyway, bonding was barely an issue for me then.

But this changed prior before getting involved with the spath. I had worked through the commitment fear and was emotionally open again to men. And he used that to his every advantage.

I recognize I don’t have commitment fear anymore, and I will be very prone to bond or be triggered. So, it’s now impossible for me to have casual sex. I only want to make love now.

I’m with you, Darwin’s mom. It would be nice to have a LOVER again, but I will accept nothing else. At my age, there are 100 women for every single guy so chances of me finding “Mr. Right” again are pretty slim but that’s okay too. I’m content by myself.

I saw a news article yesterday about a woman who is supporting herself as a “cuddler” NO SEX just cuddles folks fully clothed. $60 an hour. I can see where she could make a living at that as so many elderly folks and folks between relationships just want to hold on to someone, to be held. She said that some folks call her a whore, but I think she provides a service many of us could use. Just to be held by another human being.

She even made the radio news (the funny gimmick stuff to know about) here in Belgium a couple of days ago, Oxy!

I’m a hugger. I hug Darwin. I hug my parents. I hug my friends. And they all hug me back. 🙂

Sunflower:

People do confuse love and sex all the time. That’s why it is important to not sleep with someone before we are sure. If a man is truly interested in more than our bodies, he will wait. In my experience, there are very few men who are interested in more than sex. But you can weed them out fast when you don’t give in because they don’t stay around. Yes, a lot of people have sex because of their physical need and that is fine. I am not the sex police. I don’t care who people screw, but they shouldn’t cry when the guy dumps them or starts all his crap the very next morning. Look at everyone’s stories on here, including mine. When can we all pinpoint when the crap started???? Hmmmmm, was it right after we were intimate with them?? I bet. Story after story I have read on here (especially the ones that are featured) you can see that is when the “trouble” began. I have learned my lesson. I don’t care what anyone else does. But it truly breaks my heart and makes me feel bad for the ones who don’t see what the real deal is…the ones who just keep hopping into bed. Sex changes everything! The minute you are intimate with someone, the entire relationship changes.

darwinsmom:

Yeah, I totally get where you are coming from. I had times when I was really young where I had sex with guys just for the fun of it. I was young! I wasn’t really thinking. I just did it for whatever reason. But I am much, much older now and have felt many times over the consequences of my actions of having sex before marriage. No more.

I am so glad you have sworn off casual sex. Good for you!

Oxy:

We all want to hug and have a lover. Are you kidding??? That’s why I can’t forget about spath…best hugs EVER! Best kisses EVER!!! He was cuddly even though he is a psycho! Truly!! So yeah…I want that, too!!!! I may sound angry on my “No Sex” rants, but it’s what I believe in. I want it, but under the right circumstances.

50 bucks a hour? oh my…think i will put an ad on craigslist..
OLD GEEZER WILL HUG FOR MONEY~!

Hens, darling, I have seen photos of you, and I’d pay $60 (not 50, is what she charges) an hour to have someone as good looking as you hug [email protected] Besides, don’t you remember, if you ever decide too go straight, you and I are engaged! LOL

Gosh, remember the Saturday nights when none of us had dates and you and me and EB and a few others would just get plain silly? Ah, remembering the days of old! The LF chorus line we had figured out and the yellow and black tu-tus with rubber boots and skillet hats made out of felt! And the songs we would sing as we danced at the LF convention in my barn! LOL ROTFLMAO

I don’t think an ad on craigs list would be safe though, ain’t it a shame it wouldn’t be….the Craig’s list killer and all that. Sort of like on-line dating. “Psychopath looking for victim, send your reply!”

yeah Ox those were fun time’s back then, I miss it. and your hugs are free darlin. but remember you have to keep your clothes on~! nite Oxy

Hello There Hens.
I will answer your ad too. However, I KNOW what I look like without clothes. SO…. you pay ME $50 to keep them on, and we’re even. AND…. we both get hugs! heehee

Oh I just read Oxy’s post. Strange thing is, I bet if someone did put such an ad for a psychopath looking for a victim, someone would ANSWER IT. People ARE that stupid. I’m pretty sure my ex had such an ad, I answered!

OxD, I had the same bonding issues about sex. I’ve had “casual” sex over my lifetime when I was young and dumb, but there came a point when having sex “Meant Something Significant.”

I haven’t had sex in years, and I feel dysfunctional because I don’t know how to separate “normal” sex from what the exspath entertains. I realie that HIS issues don’t belong to me, but I’m having a very hard time getting beyond the I-actually-had-sex-with-a-very-deviant-person view. What he was into actually made me want to vomit – literally.

Louise, I don’t necessarily “want” someone to cuddle with or have sex with. Sure, it would be nice to feel a close connection with someone, but I’m not in the market for a companion, nor do I ever intend to be. The last thing I ever want in my life, again, is someone to “step-and-fetch” for, and I will simply not ever indulge someone like that, ever, EVER again.

My “daydream” still comes back to crack me up, once in a while about some man giving me a load of verbal poo over a cup of coffee and my showing him the door OUT of my life! LOLOL

Quoting Hens, “Oh my….”

Brightest blessings

Truthspeak:

Yeah, I hear you…

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