By | February 6, 2013 21 Comments

LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: Setting the record straight

Editor’s note: Lovefraud received the following letter from a reader whom we’ll call “Toby.” This letter is from “Toby” to his ex girlfriend named “Celest.” Names have been changed.

Dear “Celest.”

After our talk the other day I was thinking about what you were saying in reference to “Respect.” Let’s talk about that. I know that here in this format I won’t be interrupted every time I try to make a point.

You constantly say that I need to get over you and the past. You also act as if nothing in the past matters. Even four years ago is ancient history (according to you). This however, is another one of your flaws. I would chalk it up to your age but you seem really bent on this point and I think I know why. Let’s see, maybe it’s because it lends itself to you avoiding your past actions… Wonder why you would want to do that?

The real truth from the beginning

Let’s move on here and go back to the beginning when I met you. Yeah that’s right I am going to tell the real truth about what I know.When I met you I believe you were about 20 years old. I was 42 and I know the peanut gallery will raise a few eye brows but who cares. I spoke to you about everything I believed and knew, and we were (I thought) on the same page.

You lived in an apartment with minimal furniture and clothes were strewn all over the place from one corner to the other. Your 3 boys were completely out of control. Sink full of dishes, broke, and going through a breakup with your childhood sweetheart “Matt” (the father of your 3 boys).

We slept on your couch and snuggled up every chance we could. Then you got pregnant. Wow, and what did I do? I made arrangements for you to move in the house with me and my mom (boys and all). My mom gave you all a place to go so we could get on our feet and start a life together. After all you were pregnant with my baby. That’s pretty much how it went and once you moved in I started to see the real you.

From here on I will just go through the list so this doesn’t turn into a book. Let’s see, the boys destroyed the bedroom upstairs and you constantly made up excuses as to why you had to go somewhere? Where did you go all those times you told my mom you went to the hospital Celest? Never mind, I know.

Anyway, after two and a half years of living with my mom for free we now had two little girls. I sold a Harley and we bought some land. I worked on it every weekend getting it ready to put a house on it for us. You even picked the land out yourself. Then all of a sudden you just couldn’t live with my mom any more. Now I understand; it isn’t easy living with my mom. It’s not easy to live with anyone. But that’s another story.

Bills mine. House yours. How did that happen?

I found the house you now live in and we couldn’t afford it. The price came down because of some minor repair problems the previous owners didn’t know about (building codes) and then we were in, except for the fact that you couldn’t get financed. Why? You had too low of an income and bad credit.

My income and credit allowed US to buy the house. You decided that after all the work and money I put into the land WE bought, that you didn’t want it anymore and gave it back to the land company. This cost me my Harley Davidson.

Then three months after the paperwork came for the house (loans etc) I realized that I WAS NO WHERE ON THE PAPERWORK.WOW, how did that happen? Remember that fight in the kitchen? I also realized at that point that EVERY BILL was in my name. I asked you about it and you did the same avoidance routine. You see, It was me that enabled the purchase of the house and amazingly I was no where a part owner of it when the papers came through.But I was the only person liable for all those bills you signed us up for. I asked you how you did it and you told me you called, said you were my fiancé, and gave them my social security number and got our utilities turned on (cable etc). How convenient.

Then a year later I came to realize why you had wanted to get out of my mom’s house so badly. Remember, you said you just couldn’t live with my mom. Well, you had been hiding something and you woke up and told me (still in bed) that you had taken out a PayPal account in my mom’s name and were making payments on the loan. I immediately told my mom and sure enough that is exactly what you did. My mom called PayPal and they said my mom needed to pay this bill of $2400. The bill was being sent to your aunt’s house and you had made 6 payments on this loan/ cash advance.

PayPal said they would do an investigation if the bill was disputed and my mom either had to pay it or dispute it. So, she did just that and they were going to prosecute whoever they found guilty. THAT WOULD BE YOU CELEST.

So I came up with the idea that maybe if your mother could pay the thing off that PayPal would drop it. My mom called them and they said they would, but encouraged my mom to prosecute you. At my request my mom did not.Your mom came over to my mom’s house looked over the evidence and realized that you were going to go to jail and catch a felony if she didn’t help out. She wrote the check (that I still have) and paid off your theft of my mom’s identity. I might add here that not only have you never apologized to my mom, but you even made up a lie that to this day you repeat instantly when asked about this.


This brings us forward a bit doesn’t it? Let’s look at it from my perspective. You got pregnant, you moved in with us, you moved out, you bought a house with me and I was nowhere on the paperwork. I had all the bills put in my name thanks to you and then I find out that you robbed my mom with PayPal. Not only did you do all this but I stayed with you after all this because of the children. Even after I got screwed on the house we bought and had all the bills conveniently in my name. And I also saved your ass from going to jail.

Let’s move on. Less than a year later how was I rewarded for all your mischievous activity, fraud, and theft? How was I rewarded for saving your ass from jail? I caught you cheating on me with your (now) boyfriend. RESPECT? Rather than go into all the crap you lied about etc. I will just go on because you and I both know you were doing him long before I knew about it. People talk, Celest.

Anyway, I moved out in 2009. I have been gone now for almost four years. I got nothing when I left other than a bill for the phone that I left on (at your request) and then you never paid the bill ($200 +). I have the check for the bill so stop with your lie about YOU PAYING IT.

After two years and me having the kids (the girls) the majority of the time and mostly on weekends, I had already paid for the joint custody agreement that we had. You paid nothing of this. You also never followed the schedule we had prior to this agreement or during and yes IT”S ALL DOCUMENTED EVEN UP TO TODAY.

Your response was “Oh, so you write something down and that makes it true?” How nice, Celest. You’re showing a pattern here. So I took you to court again and went for child support. I mean really, after all, I had the kids almost every day for two years, you never followed a schedule, etc.

So in mediation we were asked why we were not going for joint parenting. My attorney explained that you had not made any attempt in two years to abide by any agreed-upon schedule or even take the kids more than 6 to 8 days a month, so we were not offering this option. You started crying and said you were in school, had a house to pay for, and were working to better yourself so you could give your children a better life. Now this all sounds great, but I know the real you. When my lawyer told you that there was six months of back support due from the time we filed, and that it was based on a 40 hour work week, you blew up. What did I do?

I agreed to let you have a 20 hour work week and I waived the past 6 months of child support that I could have gotten.Why? Because I felt sorry for you. You said you were going to be out of school in one year (and that’s on record) so I said okay.Now, it’s been almost two more years.

Let’s see where we are…

  • You still are not done with school.
  • I am getting $260 a month for two girls in child support.
  • You just bought a new car.
  • You own your own house and it’s financed with a 1% fixed interest rate because you are a mother of five.
  • You still only average about 8 days a month and that is according to the agreement but you still never follow the schedule.
  • Anytime I try to make you do this I am told I am a control freak.

Maybe you just refuse to abide by the rules you agree to? I think maybe this is more correct.

For the record

What else? You claim I need to get over you, I need to move on, I need to show respect (SIC), I need to find a girlfriend, I need to seek help (according to you I’m “CRAZY”), and a host of other ridiculous accusations.

I am over you. I don’t need a girlfriend. I am not insane, and I will never show you any respect after what you have done to me, my mom, and most of all, the girls. Your behavior, your lies, your theft, your cheating and all the rest is not the behavior that I BELIEVE is appropriate for motherhood. I also don’t think that anyone else would think so either. This is why you constantly avoid the past and interrupt me from making these points and most of all, want to act as if this is all ancient history. Not to mention your constant lies and misinformation campaign aimed at me. Anybody with your track record would obviously want to cover that up. That is understandable (from your position) however, as long as you meet your responsibilities. BUT, your problem is that you have put school, you free time, your personal goals, and vacations all in front of your children and if that isn’t bad enough you have lied, cheated, stole, and f***ed over everyone in your path. Including me, the father of the two little girls that I take care of everyday. Your priorities are all screwed up.

House full of mold

You cheated the insurance company on the house by stealing $12,000.

(Yeah, that’s not a typo it’s 12 THOUSAND ALL RIGHT) from claim money and spending it not on the roof (that still is ruined) but on vacations with the boyfriend. That is fraud and it may be none of my business (as you say). But my girls are visiting you every other weekend in a house full of mold. THAT I do believe is my business.

You have fraudulently used the daycare system and the food stamp system, also. When the girls were in daycare you changed jobs (for over a year) and didn’t report it. Laura (Daycare Manager) asked me when you were coming in to resign up the kids. I told her you were not going to because if you did they would find out what you had done.

When you didn’t show up she knew I was right and I was. You even got scared and called me. Then you proceeded to tell me that if you got burned for the daycare incident and had to repay all that money (you fraudulently used up for daycare when you really had another job) that I was going to have to pay half of the bill. Are you kidding me?

I had no way of knowing that you lied on your application. It was your case, your signature, and your responsibility to tell them the truth. Hell, I didn’t even know where you worked because you kept everything a secret (from me).

What did you do? You almost got caught and then you tried to make me pay for your lies. Ray Charles could see this pattern forming ”¦ You also kept the food stamp card when I had the girls for a whole year. That whole year you got the food stamps, while I had to buy groceries for them on my disability money. I had to go down to children and families and give them your number. You said they didn’t call you as an excuse as to why I never got my card. When I got down there I found out that YOU NEVER GAVE IT TO THEM. I did and it was done while I sat there in front of the lady who called you. The only reason you answered the phone was because you didn’t know it was her (strange phone number). That’s what I had to do to get you to give up the card.

You call me, talk to me like a dog, and ask for respect and when I say look at how you’re talking to me? You said “That’s right and I deserve it,” and not only that but it’s not going to change.

WOW, you’re so self absorbed, arrogant, and stupid that you actually think someone should respect you after all you have done? Really? I personally think you are certifiably insane. This letter is getting kind of long and I know after skimming it that I left out some major points (how sad) that should have been mentioned. However, I think this is more than enough to prove my point.

You travel I take care of kids

Wait, one more zinger, You went to Germany, France, Washington, Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, New York and wherever you managed to go and keep me in the dark about ALL in the last four years while all this crap you have been doing was going on.

Yeah, maybe it isn’t any of my business. However, when I am taking care of two children that you haven’t even seen more than 325 times in three whole years (1095 days) (DOCUMENTED BABY) I do believe I have a right to say something about it.

You are not doing your job or doing your part and I am sick of it, along with your lies, and your excuses. Not to mention your “I’m Broke” routine. The only reason you really quit your job (why would anybody quit their job? DUH) was so you wouldn’t have to pay more child support.

But you accuse me of living off of you? (SIC).

Nobody, including you, wants to explain to me how you pay $1500 a month in bills with no job. Better yet, how can you get food stamps? If you have the money to pay bills ( and you do), and it is “unearned income,” that means you are not entitled to food stamps. I know, they count my child support as income. But you just don’t claim that $15000 a year you use, right? That’s Fraud!

And conveniently you have no job so I can’t get full child support (even though I deserve it). I can’t make you file, or even be a good parent. So, where does that leave me? Full time Dad on disability with low income. What do you do? You go on vacation twice a year. WOW what a deal.

More things that I remembered

Celest’s list of lies:

1. You told me you were raped by a black man when I first met you.

2. You supposedly had gestational diabetes. But you were allowed to eat ice cream and sweet stuff because, “Yours worked the opposite way.” HAHAHA

3. You needed a liver transplant. Oh please ”¦

4. You had cervical cancer (three years ago). You told your boss at Waffle House this so you could take a few days off work before you went to Germany with the boyfriend. I told your boss to watch and see if you mention it again after you got back from Germany. As I said, you never did until now you told me the other day you had it again.

5. Amazingly, you are going on vacation yet again in three weeks to Florida. WOW. Must be a pre- requisite or something.

6. Two months ago you told me you had breast cancer (the doctor found a lump on your left breast). Should I really believe this?

7. (When I first met you) you told me that the house you lived in (that big house with the circle drive) that Matt and his friends built it. I went out with Matt four years ago and asked him about this. His response was, “Dude, I was working two jobs and paying for her and 3 kids. Do you think I could have built a house’? HAHAHA

Patterns showing very clear…

Things I found out after the fact

1. You were a stripper when I met you. You didn’t tell me this until three years later. I was also told by an ex customer of yours that you were doing tricks for 20 bucks in the parking lot at the strip club. I believe your stage name was YoYo. How fitting, I had a dog named that once.

2. Your mom told my mom (or I should say) wouldn’t tell my mom what you had really done in your past 20 years. She said that you had done a lot of things but she didn’t want to repeat it and make my mom think any worse of you (more than she already did).


3. You used drugs as a teenager.

4. You love to smoke pot.

5. You have had more than one abortion.

Oh yeah, my point, what was it?

You are a liar, a cheat, and a thief. I have one other thing but I won’t stoop to your level and say it. After all, you know what you are, don’t you? That’s why you go out of your way to hide it, cover it up, and remake the past to fit your so-called new image.You know, the full time mother of 5, working and going to college to be a nurse, and a homeowner, all by yourself I might add. Unbelievable! Take this to court with you if you want to.It’s probably the only way I will ever get to tell a judge even part of the whole story. Nothing would make me happier than to have you deliver it for me.



Wait! There’s more!

This is another entry from 2013 January. You called and wanted me to change the schedule again for you. Must be about 10 times by now. Anyway, I said ok and you got the girls two weekends in a row. What did you do? The first weekend you kept them two days instead of four. The second weekend you kept them three of the four days and I got them for my usual 11 days in a row. As soon as it was your turn again for your four days you called me on Monday and asked me to change the schedule yet again. I said no and you told me I was being unfair.

You asked me to change due to Matt having the boys on different weekends as you. So I said okay. Then after you not doing what your supposed to do (again), you want to change because you said you had to work. Why would you change the schedule to a weekend you have to work?

So you got mad and when Thursday came, you got the girls. Friday came and they were back to me because you needed a babysitter. Then Friday came and instead of going to work like you said, you went to a wedding with your boyfriend in Ohio. You talked me into leaving the girls with your aunt.

The girls went to your aunt’s house on Saturday morning and were there until Sunday afternoon at three pm. What happened while with the aunt? Your aunt and mother (that bailed you out of the Paypal scam you pulled) took them to a playland park. While there my 7-year-old got her front teeth kicked out and swallowed one of them. Were the adults watching? NO! Did they take my daughter to the docotr or dentist? NO. Did they call me? NO!

On Sunday did you call me? NO. What did you do? On Monday you dropped the girls off at my driveway and left with nothing of an explanation whatsoever. I watched them walk in the house with no teeth. Then they told me what happened. I took Mindy to the dentist and he removed the other tooth hanging by the skin. Luckily they were both baby teeth or she would be getting dentures at 7 years old.

When I called you you would not answer. I left a message and said I think you know why I’m calling. You returned my call a few hours later with the remark “you mean the tooth thing”…

Back to court

You told the judge that you wanted to change the parenting times because of your schedule.

How do you make up false grounds for taking someone to court and then change the whole action of why you went there to something else? I had to go hire another attorney and I have done this three times now over the last four years. You are costing me money, making false accusations, and trying to change what you agreed to in mediation two years ago. You agreed to our schedule due to the fact that you had not shown any attempt whatsoever to take an active part with the children or meet the schedule in any way. Now, you make up false accusations and petition the court to change what you had every opportunity to fight for two years ago but didn’t. WHY? Because I gave you a break and you took it rather than go in front of the judge. Why? Because you knew you would get in big trouble. So now, you start it all again based on a lie? You haven’t had the kids more than 7 days a month on average for over 4 years.

Everything you do is based on lies to get what you want, and when it comes back at you in the form of me telling you you just hang up the phone. YOU ARE A SOCIOPATH and you fit the DSM 4 description to a tee. You are not fit to be in charge of ANY CHILDREN whatsoever and I am more than sick of you meddling in my life, stealing from me, manipulating everyone I know, doctors, school faculty, principles, and even the court just to get what you want.

I will see you in court.


Comment on this article

Please Login to comment
Notify of
raggedy ann

How awful… that was just awful to read about. You have experienced many things I have not, but on top of all that’s in your account, it’s painful to see someone put in a position where they have to explain themselves and basic reality and common sense to a crazymaker. Probably most people here have been there.

Toby, you sound like your ex has done a number on your brain. Her hand is still so far in your head, and it needn’t be. You don’t need to explain yourself to this person to this degree. Believe in your self and do the best you can with your documentation in court. Obviously lots of people do know what she is like, and there are many people here who have been put through similar things and hopefully can offer both support and insight. I hope you got a lot of relief from writing this to her, even though if she read it she wouldn’t get it.

I am very curious is Matt could be any kind of ally or would be willing to validate things to others, esp. the court system?

“WOW, you’re so self absorbed, arrogant, and stupid that you actually think someone should respect you after all you have done? Really? I personally think you are certifiably insane.”



Hi, very sorry to hear about ur story, you do sound like a decent person who respect women, my best wishes are with you. They are toxic people who just enjoy making our life toxic 🙂


Dear Toby—I was sorry to read your letter. I, too, have written letters/emails very similar to yours. Many times. Although it may be good therapy for you to write it down, the sociopath will never see themselves in the situations you describe. Remember, it is never their fault. They will never see themselves as they really are. They have an excuse for everything. In my situation, sending letters such as that were a complete waste of time resulting in me spinning my wheels and him trying to STILL make me believe it was all my fault. Thankfully, I did not have children with this person. You have to be the grey rock. No matter how many good things you’ve done for this person, they will never recognize it. More importantly, take care of yourself and your girls. Be thankful she spends so little time with them. Sociopaths do not make good parents. Here’s hoping you are blessed with peace and joy in the near future. Rochelle.

Ox Drover

Toby, welcome to LF. It sounds like you definitely have had a run inn with a full fledged 24 K gold plated Psychopath and things are still in chaos because of the kids you have with her. Sorry you and your children are embroiled in the middle of this chaos.

Read and learn and heal. Knowledge is power and we need it to take back our power from them. Good luck and God bless.


I am sorry to hear about all the horrible things your ex done to you and your children. It’s good to be able to vent to people that understand to some degree what you are going through as all of us on this site gave been involved with some sort of sociopath. This site and its information and members is a great start to your healing process it has helped be out tremendously along with Donna’s book, as well as reading Barbara Bentley’s, Dance with the Devil, Without a Concious, and Snakes in Suits. Highly recommend them. They have helped me alot in my healing from the awful sociopath I had in my life for 2 years. Remember everything takes time and you are not alone. All of us here support each other. I am sorry for the pain you are feeling but know overtime things will get better in time and this awful experience you have suffered will make you a stronger person so you will never fall victim to a sociopath again. As I say they will get their karma for what they have done to us on their own. We need to heal and make the rest if our lives better for us and our children.


Dear Toby, after reading your tale of deception and deceit, my heart really goes out to you. You have really found the best cyber place for understanding, hope, and healing. Everyone here has been through situations like this in one form or fashion. You have much to work through, and plenty of healing ahead of you. Please understand it will take some time, but you will get through this. In my situation, over the course of 3 yrs, things began to become more focused for me when i realized i was trying to PROCESS the situation thru NORMAL EYES! These people are not normal! The things we care about, how other people SHOULD be treated, etc…means absolutely zero to them! In my situation, while I (the 2nd wife) was busy going to court with “him” against his 1st wife…for about 18mo….he was busy talking on the phone (behind my back) to the crusty broad he had a 4yr affair with behind his 1st wife’s back! Just WTF!!! WHO DOES THAT????? Sooo, dummy me, was so tore up about it for tooo long, until i realized i was looking at it thru normal eyes! Toby, get focused on you and your kids, and do what is best for you and them! You deserve better! Stick around here, read, learn, grow and heal. Your girls need you to do that! Best wishes to you! You will get thru this! You really will! 🙂

I think Radar_On has really hit on one of the most important concepts that we survivors need to grasp: Looking at a spath through normal eyes, does NOT work. It just leaves you cross-eyed!

Almost 4 years later and with all the knowledge I have, I STILL catch myself doing this when I meet a spath, even though I know it’s a spath.

Radar_On also gave you great advice: Toby, get focused on you and your kids, and do what is best for you and them! You deserve better! Stick around here, read, learn, grow and heal.

You might find that blessings will come from what seemed to be a curse. Maybe your girls are the first of those blessings. May there be many more.

Tea Light

‘Celeste’ sounds very damaged. Three children and two abortions and working as a prostitute by the age of 20? Where was the mother during those years? Her father doesn’t feature in her life by the sound of it. Toby, you are clearly a commited father and your girls are a positive from this relationship. You are doing all you can to give them a better start in life and to ensure they make better choices than their mother and I applaud you for that. All the best.


It wouldn’t be the first time I’ve heard of a sociopathic female intentionally having children in order to “secure” the target. It always fails because she can’t keep her mask on, so she moves on to the next one. In between targets the next best bankroll is the state.


Toby, I’m so sorry to read the full extent of your experiences with a sociopath.

If it were me, (and, it HAS been), I would suggest to Celest that she waive all parental rights, stop paying child support, and focus on my own healing and recovery – particularly, I would recover with the intent to present a strong, healthy, and emotionally strong influence for my children.

I am so sorry that you had such horrific experiences and that two innocent children were produced as a result of someone’s nefarious agenda. Keep reading, keep posting, and consider getting involved in some strong counseling therapy with someone that “gets it” about sociopaths – particularly FEMALE sociopaths.

Brightest blessings

raggedy ann

I would be careful about attributing pregnancy to a deliberate scheme on the pregnant person’s part, especially for some side purpose. Did I gloss over in Toby’s letter where this was established? I can’t find it. It wouldn’t be surprising, and she still appears to be a sociopath, but there are also other explanations when sociopaths become pregnant.


Raggedy, there have been countless examples of people who either become pregnant or create pregancies strictly for their own purposes. Keep in mind when discussing sociopaths that they do not view other human beings as anything more than OBJECTS, and this includes children and the production OF children.

Precisely how does one “establish” that a sociopath has produced children as a “deliberate scheme?” By the word of the sociopath, or by behavioral observations?

Ox Drover

Toby, would also suggest that you get some counseling for your kids as well.


Toby, I agree with OxD about counseling therapy. We don’t seek counseling because we’re crazy. We seek counseling with someone that “gets it” because spath experiences are something that normal human beings are simply NOT equipped to process, on their own.

There is a tremendous amount of anger, pain, and grief in your letter. These feelings are all “normal” in the course of things, but spath experiences can create a truly obsessive focus on those crippling feelings. A good, strong counselor can help you sort that all out and manage it.

Brightest blessings

raggedy ann

Truthspeak, Establishing that is for the person making such a claim.

I think it’s already obvious that she *might* not have done this. Toby didn’t describe any entrapment, just “we snuggled when we could” and a resulting pregnancy.

I don’t know the percentage of sociopaths’ pregnancies that are deliberate for some side purpose. But don’t you know of any that appear to have been accidental?

I see from behavioral observations that what is desribed in Toby’s letter is a sociopath. I see that there was sex and then a pregnancy, and then another. Preceded by three, reportedly all three with this fellow Matt. Could be teen irresponsibility/incompetence, carelessness, actually wanting to make babies to have them (which many non-spaths do too). There is also the imo grey area of “I want him to love me as the mother of his children and cement our bond together” combined with the “I want a/more baby/babies” which while literally “ill-conceived” I personally couldn’t label “nefarious”.

We just had another thread started by someone who was horribly entrapped and wronged by a woman. You, like me, probably also know of cases of “don’t worry I’m on the pill” turning out to be a big deliberate lie. You probably know of cases of paternity fraud, which is an outrageous sin against a guy imo. But Toby hasn’t suggested this happened.

And you probably also know of cases where women who become pregnant as the result of two people choosing to have sex end up accused of all sorts of things, including this.

I know that there is a significant possibility that this woman has done exactly what you say. I’m sorry if I am imposing my issue(s) on this conversation, but I just can’t see it as fact. Not even sure if I could call it probable. Maybe it is. But it’s also entirely irrelevant to the “celest’s” conduct later, which is where her sociopathy is clear, and where Toby’s reall troubles come from. The babies were created. Toby loves them. Hopefully they will never see themselves as something that should not have existed but for a nefarious scheme. Or as victimization of their father. I also hope this doesn’t enter Toby’s thinking. Because it *could* be false, it could be a far more complicated story, and it doesn’t change all the other things she has done, which are plenty.

Toby, if you have evidence from the horse’s mouth that the pregnancies were all a part of a plan to exploit you for anything other than making a new family with a father in it (which courts won’t care about), definitely use it in anything you need to get done.



I read your story yesterday as I was leaving work. I really wanted to comment. We all get that you are really angry and hurt and I know when you go thru the list you must be thinking…WTF. She is right out of the books and as a normal person it is impossible to grasp how her brain works and how she thinks. The rest of us think normally. We all want them to see the terrible things that they do but, that will never happen. They view the things that they do as normal and do not live by the golden rule. Everyone is absolutely right in that you need to concentrate on you and your girls. Wanting them to see themselves and the horrible things they do and “own” it and truly apologize will never happen and that is where the obsessive focus becomes a problem. I am fighting that myself and it creates a lot of anger and feelings of injustice. I agree. I think counseling is an absolute necessity. I can feel your pain and anger in your letter. You have every right to feel those things but, now you need to start working past that so you can start healing. You cannot change the past and she will never see that she has done anything wrong. She isn’t capable of that. Visit here often and vent, learn and process. We’ve all been there to some degree and in some way so all of us know you are not crazy. You just got entangled with a psychopath.

I wish you well.

raggedy ann

Truthspeak said:

“There is a tremendous amount of anger, pain, and grief in your letter. These feelings are all “normal” in the course of things, but spath experiences can create a truly obsessive focus on those crippling feelings. A good, strong counselor can help you sort that all out and manage it.”

Toby, please print this out for yourself, and look at it from time to time in the near future. kmillercats articulated everything perfectly too imo.

Save your letter to celest in a journal. I think almost everybody here will/would say place it in a journal or box and don’t send it.

I can take on the job of being angry at that woman for today. You deserve a rest.



that’s the ticket!

raggedy ann

Toby, sorry for any derailment here. I hope you will benefit from this place and its resources and posters, and I hope things work out with your family.

raggedy ann,
I understand your position;you’re going by what you read in Toby’s letter about how he and Celest were snuggling, and the resulting pregnancies.Seems normal.But you have to remember that anytime a socialpath is involved in the relationship,it ceases being NORMAL.

Because of what I’ve been through,I can understand how a socialpath uses pregnancy/children to establish relationship and thus a foothold to do whatever is their aim.

Before we married,we discussed having children.I told him I wanted to wait awhile.He agreed that we would.But within a few hours of our marriage,he was TELLING me that we wouldn’t do anything to prevent pregnancy,”if it happened,it happened”.See what he did.First he secured the relationship with the marriage bond.Then,within a month,I did become pregnant.Before our first daughter was 3 yrs old,I gave birth to our second daughter.Our third daughter was born before her sister was even 2 yrs old!All this time,he would work only IF HE FELT LIKE IT;relying upon assistance from the government.At the time,I wasn’t able to leave him,but I did put a stop to having babies by having a tubal.

He proved that he didn’t father those girls out of love,nor did he take responsibility for them.I nurtured them,their grandfather and the government took care of them.They don’t have much use for him as they remember the hardships he caused in their lives,and in mine.I say KUDOS to Toby and wish him the best as he processes what has happened to him and his family.Though what he writes won’t mean anything to Celest,I still encourage him to write.Keep a journal.It can be healing.And then it could also help him remember things that may need to be brought up in court.

Lovefraud is being upgraded. Comments and forum posts are temporarily disabled. Dismiss

Send this to a friend