Editor’s note: Lovefraud received the following from the reader who posts as “Kerisee04.”
How does a person know if they have engaged in a friendship with a female predator? So often it is the romantic relationships that are discussed, and usually about male sociopaths.
First of all, it’s important to note that if you are a male, to the female sociopath, you either a sexual target or a source of financial gain. In my experience with the female sociopath, in her mind, there is no man beyond her reach. She has sexual fantasies about all men she encounters and runs scenarios in her head to accomplish her goal. In my naive state of mind, I had no idea this particular female sociopath was after my husband.
There really is no “friendship” with a sociopath. While the female target may feel a sense of obligation and social grace toward the female sociopath, the sociopath feigns sincerity. Some of the signals I missed were:
1. Back-handed compliments. “You dress frumpy. You need to find clothes that fit you better.” Or, “I know you don’t give your husband everything he needs.” Or, “Do you know how hot your husband is?”
2. Immediate soul-mate connection with my husband. “He and I are so alike.” Or, “It’s like we’re brother and sister. I understand him.”
3. Fake displays of emotion, similar to histrionics. She would fly off the handle over any changes that were made to plans, she would manipulate everybody to feel sorry for her and eventually give in to her out of pity.
4. Lack of boundaries. She would come over every day and stay until I literally kicked her out at 2 a.m. After I had surgery, I managed to stay up until 1 a.m. with her and my husband until I passed out from exhaustion. I found out the next day that she stayed until 5 a.m., alone with my husband in my living room.
5. Lack of shame. She would pull me into sexual discussions of fantasies, comparing sizes of anatomy, and playing games of truth or dare. These are things I would never under normal circumstances allow myself to take part in. No subject or dare was off-limits to her, and I was given the impression that she was my best friend and would keep all my secrets. Only later did I find out that she took mental note of everything I said to use against me when her lies finally came out.
6. Her attempts to be alone with my husband under the guise of platonic friendship. “He’s coming over to hang pictures for me.” And, “We met for lunch since we were both in the same area.”
There are so many flags I missed. Or maybe I didn’t miss them; I just ignored them. The most embarrassing of all is my nonchalant attitude when her affair with my husband came out. My husband (now ex-husband) had fallen victim to her seduction. Granted, things were not great in our marriage to begin with, but we had managed to be faithful to each other for seven years until she entered our world. My husband had a guilty conscience and finally came forward with their affair.
Read more: Guidelines for dealing with female sociopaths
When the female sociopath found out about this, she immediately resorted to histrionics. “I can’t believe he would do something like this to me. I finally trust someone, and they stab me in the back.” And, “It was an accident. We just went a little too far during the truth or dare game. Now you’re going to hate me and I’m going to lose my best friend!” She was flipping out and crying.
I had no time to think about the implications. I was thinking about the ways in which I could have unknowingly facilitated the affair. That’s exactly what she wanted. When I finally pulled away and talked with my spiritual elders, I told them I was worried about her. She was so messed up mentally over this that I feared she might hurt herself. After all, I was her friend. Then one of the elders told me something that finally turned on the light in my head: “Anybody that would do something like that to their friend is NOT a true friend.”
It took me a few hours to let that sink in and realize the magnitude of my situation. In the coming days and months, the story came out in bits and pieces. Some from my husband, who was trying desperately to hold on to me, and some from the female sociopath, who was trying to downplay the affair until she was backed into the corner with the truth.
When all her numerous affairs (we stopped counting at 30) came out, her husband slowly began to realize the predatory trap that she held him in. She had cheated on him throughout their entire marriage, sometimes dropping their two kids off at daycare for a “mom’s day off” and driving to another town for a quickie with one of her men.
When she talked with our mutual friends and elders about the situation, she was sure to exploit every secret I had confided to her and she would twist the truth to seem as though I coerced her and my husband into doing what they did so that I could divorce him. It all seemed so sincere. Except, there wasn’t a shred of truth to it. In fact, she was using projection. Her goal was to get me to say and do self-incriminating things so that she would have ammunition against me when everything hit the fan.
It was truly a time of awakening for me. There truly isn’t good in all people. Just most people.
Though healthy individuals like to believe that change is possible, I have come to the realization that when a person is animalistic in nature, contains no actual emotions or feelings, and looks for manipulation in everybody she meets, there is no possibility of healthy change. This female sociopath’s parents have held on to the hope for the past four years that she would change. They have even at times helped her out financially, only to be confronted with more of her lies.
There is much more to the story. This, in fact, is only a chapter—the first chapter of my entanglement with this particular female sociopath. But I feel it’s important for people to understand the complexities of so-called friendship with a female predator. It’s important to recognize the signs and for your own good, to never give them what they want.
Learn more: Survivor’s guide to healthy people and healthy relationships
Lovefraud originally posted this story on Jan. 19, 2011.
LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: I lied to myself as I became close to him again
Annie, I agree with you completely about women being just as bad or worse than male psychopaths, but many times women high in these traits are also labeled as “Borderline Personality Disordered” That name is a bad one I think, but it was named back when those people were thought to BE on the “borderline” of psychotic (crazy) but in reality it is very much like the Narcissistic and psychopathic PDs, in fact, I think that ALL of the various “different” Personality disorders that are labeled this or that are really just various forms of THE personality disorder. Sort of like a German Shepherd is a dog, and a boxer is a dog, and a beagle is a dog, but they are all DOGS. A Border Collie and a Wolf are both canines but they have different social “skills” if you will and a bit different inborn temperments.
A female dog of most breeds is somewhat differently turned than most male dogs, less aggressive etc. but a female wolf is more aggressive most of the time than a female beagle would be. So the gender differences are somewhat biological and that may account for the “different” diagnoses of different “personality disorders.”
It doesn’t mean though that a female “borderline PD” can’t be as toxic and as dangerously aggressive as a male “psychopath” though.
I wish that the mental health professional community would come together on a concensus for naming these disorders. But you have to realize that a HORSE DESIGNED BY A COMMITTEE looks more like a CAMEL! Everyone has to get their “hump” added here or there for their own egos. LOL
Hi Whyme,
I’ve been struggling a bit to respond to what you wrote – I can relate to quite a bit of it.
I can totally relate to your most vivid memory being the fingernails. In my case it was the claw-like fingers (my mother was an OR nurse and never wore nail-polish). I’d never thought about that before; it’s funny how my memory can’t really see the face – but the fingers are always what comes back to me – pinching, grabbing, pulling, twisting. Very much like the hands of that British woman caught on camera slyly, cruelly putting that cat in the garbage can. One hand being all smooth and efficient opening the bin, the other hand being all stroking and affectionate getting the cat to trust her – and then the fingers becoming hard, efficient and cruel talons – swiftly picking up the cat by the scruff and then quickly tossing it. Then swiftly and cooly closing the bin and walking away as if nothing ever happened. When I first saw that on TV that’s what I focused on – and what stayed in my memory. Her hands.
As for what you said about your brother. This may not help you directly (on the other hand it may), but what you’ve described could very likely be sexual abuse of him, or just on the edge of it. I won’t go into specifics, but my own family had something somewhat similar – although it certainly wasn’t “consensual” in our case (not that it ever is – consensual is a very inappropriate term here but I can’t think of an appropriate one at the moment). You may want to consider checking out BloggerT7165’s site: “Female-Offenders.com”. It’s the first link in the “Blogroll” section on the left of this page. He’s a very nice guy – if you wanted to ask him any questions I’m sure he’d be more than happy to answer them. Finding his site has helped me put together some very big missing pieces in my understanding of my family’s own “story”. This is stuff that most people won’t dare touch, so my kudo’s to you for being brave enough to even talk about it.
LouiseGolem,
The “can I stay here sometime” so soon is the huge red flag in my opinion.
That is what my ex bf spath wanted – a place to stay on alternate weekends to get away from his alcoholic treatment center halfway house. When I write that it seems like that happened an eternity ago. BUT, women spaths want the same thing. They are opportunists. If they see something that would be to their advantage they will take it.
On the other hand a regular friend may want the same thing but a little more time would pass before that would happen. I would love to have a friend that I felt comfortable enough to stay at their house and them at mine, but that type of friendship takes cultivating. Otherwise it is instant intimacy which could turn out to be your worst nightmare later on.
TTS
Oh, dang! I just saw this blog and I had to respond to it!
My former friend SANDY was after my husband; She was after any man, dog, or tree.
Sandy’s marriage ended when her husband was emotionally and physically abusive. He ran up her credit card debt, and he had a mistress on the side.
Sandy came “into her own”. She healed herself…and became the most dangerous women known to your relationship.
Sandy was after my husband. Sandy would put me down by announcing that if a man wanders it is because his wife is not satifying him.
I pointed out that her husband cheated, was it that she did not satisfy him? She poo-poohed that and said her husband had his own issues…
Sandy was so competive with me. She told me that my doctor is wrong, and ofcourse her doctor is right. One night she mentioned her doctors name. This is the funny part. Yep! You guessed it, we had the same doctor! See, we were going to same clinic. Well, Sandy was now done talking about her doctor. I pried her on. Come on Sandy tell me more about how your doctor knows more than mine….but Sandy was tight lipped.
Sandy was such a pig. We were at a mutual friends party. Sandy had one guy humping on her rear-end while her boyfriend humped on her front side. Sandy looked at my husband and pointing into her open mouth. She shouted it is another hole to fill. (I gotta point out they were clothed)
Then Sandy took some guy behind the garage. Yep at this mutual friends house. When mutual friend found out she was upset. What would the neighbors think if they saw it? (oh, by the way, Sandy’s boyfriend was at party when Sandy took some guy behind the garage)
Yet, Sandy was invited again… Our mutual friend wouldn’t listen to me about Sandy. She said she likes Sandy cause Sandy is fun.
We were at mutual friend house party. I was divorced by this time and I had a boyfriend. Sandy chased after my boyfriend around the house all night. I told her to knock it off. She laughed in my face. She really thought she had the upper hand.
So I had to show her she didn’t.
When Sandy went to give my boyfriend a deep kiss goodnight. I reached for Sandy’s stinky boyfriend and gave him a sweet kiss. I turned around with a sly smile at Sandy. I saw her soul on her face.
But, yucky! I stooped to her level and kissed her stinky boyfriend! spit, spit, spit….
I didn’t care about getting rid of my boyfriend. I already knew he was a no-good. But, that I kissed Sandy’s sloppy seconds? spit, spit, spit….
The best way to describe Sandy…. “Eighteen or eighty, blind, crippled or crazy; It don’t matter”
Mutual friend finally broke off friendship with Sandy. Sandy told mutual that she rubs something on her nipples so her dog will lick them. Sandy said what a rush this is.
So this adds a new description to Sandy. She will do it with a man, or a dog or a tree.
imfree, good to hear from you!
Thanks to everyone for writing…
seems I’ve got to pay attention to everybody!
jeannie,
OMG that is soooooo funny. you could get that published! I’m not kidding! you are gooooood.
The title would be, of course, “a man, a dog or a tree”
Try submitting it to a women’s magazine.
It’s a sad fact that there are more sick people out there than there are good. I know no one wants to hear that, but it’s true. Most people’s narcissistic (infantile) side has taken over. Sandy is a classic case. I’m starting to see that the problem is a lack of values. Robert Hare says that Psycopaths have shallow emotions. Fuk that, they have shallow everything. They are as shallow as infants. They have the values that infants have. What values are that? you might ask. Yours, theirs or anyones. They simply mimick what they see. and Jeannie, you described what we see on MTV all day long and Sandy was mimicking it.
This is a lot off topic but need advise from my friends that I have grown to trust. I tried to find a topic to suit what I need right now but cold not. My grandson is starting to lie like a trooper He tells half truths and really over plays it. I heard him tell his hockey team a down right lie like he had no self esteem left and had to make a lie to look important. I saw today that he got quit upset when I did not enable him. He came without permission here from school. He wanted a pop to take to school, which is a pop free school. When I said no he took it like it was a rejection or something. I had not seen him for a while and bumped into him at a hockey game. That night he ran here from home at 10.00 at night saying he found his mom and spaths stash he wanted to stay here. I said I can not keep you here I have to let your mom know where you are or Grandpa will have to drive you home. He then said what will happen if you don’t? I said they will call the police when they can not find you. Then I will be in trouble with the law for harboring you. He then said phone the police then I am not going home. I said just because you found there stash is no reason to break up a family a lot of family’s do drugs. I do not agree with it but it is no reason to break up a family. Then he proceeded to tell me how the spath came home drunk one night and had passed out naked on top of him, he felt alienated. Then I thought do not even go there with this and went to the phone and phoned the police to deal with this. Apparently the law found out it was just a drunken mistake and sent the boy home again. He got his hockey taken away now for doing this it did not seem to effect him at all only made him more determined and has came her every day for lunch. I got a call from my daughter yesterday with her sweet voice saying. Mom I need you to come to my house every Saturday to come and see the grandson I am talking about she did not mention the other two and went on to say for some reason he can not get you out of his system and I don’t know why? I then replied because he loves and misses us. She then said I do not want you telling him you miss him when you come and see him. I then said I do not wish to have you breathing over my shoulder and video taping me which I found out they had already done the last meeting before Christmas. She said well he is not coming over there. I then said oh you are still punishing me are you. She under her breath said a snarky no. I then told her that if they handled the last meeting right I would have already been there but I do not and will not be controlled or manipulated that we would need a mediator to work this out and come up with a reasonable solution that will work for all of us. She snapped at me then and said call a mediator. I said fine! good bye. What is your advice on how I should handle this. I did oxy get some help some med’s and a mental health worker. I’m not sure I should have listened to the mental health worker though. He told me that my grandchildren need to see me at hockey and school when I bump into them.He said that Locking my self in the house is wrong for them and me but if I did not go to that hockey game none of this would have happened. I know none of you are in this situation but all of you know more than I do.
Grandmother,
I’m so sorry you are having to deal with this crap! This is really bad news but I guess one thing we have to realize is that things don’t stay the same. They either get better or they get worse and it looks like they are getting a bit worse for your grandson. I think I remember that he is around 10 or 12 years old?
You have handled it well so far. You have stayed out of it as much as you can so that you can’t get blamed.
Your grandson is beginning to learn how to manipulate. He is seeing that his behavior can elicit emotions and create drama. This is what he wants, but the reasons why can be varied. No matter what the reason, it probably has a root cause in fear. He feels uncertain about his status and his safety in this world. At this point he is looking to exert power over someone in order to make himself feel powerful because he feels just the opposite. He has chosen you as the one to exert power over.
Grandma, this is much bigger than either you or I can handle. He needs a therapist, quickly. It’s time for you to use your acting skills to convince your narcissistic daughter that it’s in her best interest to get the boy into therapy.
I think that being compassionate with her is the first step. Tell her that you are concerned about the boy’s behavior. and that this is a vulnerable age where things can either get better or worse because it’s right before the teenage years. I think that the thought of a troublesome teenager might scare her into getting him help.
Tell her you do not want to be involved in “counseling him” because you aren’t qualified and you don’t want to meddle. You only love both of them and want them to be happy.
Offer any assistance, such as taking him to appts or paying for the therapy. DON’T let her use this as a trump card on you, Grandma. Don’t let her try to manipulate you because of your concern. Be very aware, but non-emotional.
You are right, I don’t know much about kids or parenting – never done it, but I know about manipulitive people. They come in all ages. I hope my advice is of some use to you.
Dear GRandmother,
I think the child does need counseling, and you might get your daughter to speak to the counselor in school for at least an assessment of his needs as a first step. If that doesn’t work,, then you can call the counselor at school and she can take it from there, I am under the impression that she cannot reveal where the tip came from.
If you go over to your daughter’s house to visit I would take my own digital audio (sound only) tape recorder in the pocket of a shirt or jacket, and also take along a friend who would make a good witness.
The witness could hang back enough to let you and your grandson have some privacy, maybe stroll out to the front or back yards away from others, yet in site of others.
I do agree to have you go to the sports games to show them you care about them and their activities. You also might volunteer at his school, even if you only got to see him for 5 minutes between classes or at recess for a few minutes.
I also agree with Sky that you will have to “suck up” to your daughter and I know that may be a hard pill to swallow! But the one who needs you is the boy so do what ya gotta do for him. ((((hugsd))))) and God bless!
Thanks guys! I know I have to do something. They keep telling me they are going to put him in counseling as I told them over and over again that there is no way this boy can deal with loosing his father then loosing him again by telling him in this mess after loosing his grandma the his dad he new to be his dad all his life is not his dad. Then they tell him that his dad is fooling around on his new girlfriend they will not let the boys see there dad because he is a alcoholic but so are they so how does he justify all this. I did talk to her again and stressed that he needs help that they have to start to take responsibility for what they do. That I am not the one in control they are making the choices and that my guilt does not have anything to do with my grandson because I do not feel I did anything wrong. I told her my guilt is in how I enabled her all her life. I will find a way to make this work without it destroying me. That is my big fear. I have been through so much. I really do not want to get hurt anymore. Thanks for your advice. I am sure you will hear from me again and I hope one day I learn enough to help others also.