UPDATED FOR 2024. Last week, Lovefraud posted a letter from “Cybil,” I did not choose this guy. Here’s more of her experience about “things people say.”
I’ll call this, “Things people say, part II.” This is the other one that bugs me: “You’re paranoid.” I always have a good 24 hours of self-doubt before I realize they’re the ones that are nuts, not me. I know a lot more about what crazy stuff is out there in the world than your average, never-tangled-with-a-sociopath human does.
I just went to a seminar of a national expert on how domestic violence leads to murder, especially for women. Over and over he said, “Trust your instinct.” He told the audience to take women seriously when they have these stories (like those on this blog) and that if she is a co-worker you should elevate these stories to security for everyone’s safety because it could easily become a workplace shooting.
Paranoid
But continually I have had people in my life say I am paranoid since my ex came into my life. HE used to tell me I was paranoid. Crazy. Hysterical. Depressed. I wasn’t. I was living in a psychological and physical war zone. People who survive sociopaths have survived wars. The people on the blog are war-buddies.
The funny part is watching how the people who told me I was paranoid act when their blinders fall off. Like my parents, every few weeks another blinder falls off. When the death threats came in, they were in shock and they never said, “You told us so,” but they started taking things a bit more seriously and realized that when they told me I was paranoid that he was going to kill me (Well, yes, he hit you, he lied to you, he had an arrest record, but he’d never kill you. He’d get in trouble. He’s not that stupid), they were wrong. The sad part is watching them go back into denial as the “living with death threats” thing starts to become routine.
A strange event happened the other day. I called the police. My parents say: You know that was just a random thing that happened. You’re paranoid.
Really?
Responsibility
I am going to start telling people in my life, you are not allowed to tell me I’m paranoid or that I chose this guy. Not only is it horribly deflating, it goes to the heart of what I am healing from and getting stronger by.
When people tell me “You chose him,” they are telling me I have to take more responsibility, but taking more than my share of responsibility for what happened is what kept me in the bad relationship longer than I should have been. Because I started to believe it was my fault, because he told me it was my fault. If I could just fix me, then maybe he wouldn’t have to get so crazy and mean. It took me several years of dangerous experimenting with every “me” I could be, to realize it wasn’t ME. Yeah, I don’t have a problem taking responsibility and I don’t need help taking more.
When people tell me “You’re paranoid,” they are really questioning my instinct and telling me not to listen to it. I am a year and a half out from living with an abuser and a gaslighter; I am largely over the hyper-alert period. I know what I feel. Doubting that was also what kept me in the bad place: Maybe he is telling the truth, maybe he did do that for my own good, maybe I am being too judgmental, maybe I should give him another chance. Not doubting my instinct to walk out that last time was what let me walk out!!!!
I’m not going back there. Not even in a mental sense.
Learn more: Beyond betrayal — how to recover from the trauma
Lovefraud originally posted this story on Nov. 27, 2010.
The sociopathic MO in three easy steps
Thank you, Cybil, for writing this blog. I’m sure most of us went through the ‘you’re paranoid’ put downs. I went to a behavioral health clinic while my ex spath hole was still stalking and slandering me, the intake therapists thought I may be ‘paranoid’.
Of course I’m freaking paranoid! This monster-stranger I thought I knew threatened me, stole from me, slandered me, and is stalking me! Duh…Idiots!
I did NOT go for therapy at that clinic. Very happy with the therapist I have now.
First of all…. speaking for myself Ignoring the gut instincts… that was bad. Calling me paranoid because I did not listen to my instincts telling me I knew the RISKS BS….. no one knows what crazy BS I have been through hind sight is 20/20. Paranoid… nope we just didnt listen to what our instincts told us RUN!
Ok so if we survived a war what do we tell people who tell us but that is his ‘Father’ when children are involved what do you say to the IGNORNAT A holes out there that tell you how to raise your children when the other parent is a sociopath? answers appreciated for once from people who know what they are talking about!
cybil – this is really clear: ‘I am going to start telling people in my life, you are not allowed to tell me I’m paranoid or that I chose this guy. Not only is it horribly deflating, it goes to the heart of what I am healing from and getting stronger by. When people tell me “You chose him,” they are telling me I have to take more responsibility, but taking more than my share of responsibility for what happened is what kept me in the bad relationship longer than I should have been.’
Good for you!. Draw that line, and hold the border.
Are you living with your folks? If you are, I hope that that changes for you soon.
Dear WAR BUDDY Cybil,
Even my therapist was not sure I was not some kind of paranoid delusional nut job after the first two-hour intake when I told him in detail how “everyone including my mother is out to kill me”—of course, he ASKED NICELY and truly, I was by that time not even offended, but rather AMUSED that my story sounded so PARANOID, but just took in court documents and my son D as a witness. After that he did not question my paranoia again…he realized it was GUT INSTINCT and FACTS!
The local sheriff didn’t question…just ran a rap sheet on the Trojan Horse Psychopath and HE BELIEVED.
The attorney I hired to keep my psychopathic son in prison when his next parole (in january) comes up didn’t believe either I suspect from the tone of his voice, and I sent him a 4 inch stack of letters outlining how to kill me after winning my confidence written to and from my P son and the Trojan Horse Psychopath he had sent into our family—AND HE BELIEVED!!!! REALLY BELIEVED!!! Kept cautioning me to BE CAREFUL!
So yes, I have experienced the “you’re paranoid” and the “you’re crazy” with my P son and the DIL and the Trojan Horse Psychopath, and my egg donor (the person formerly called “mother”) still DOES NOT BELIEVE though at one time she said she did, but now she sends money to the P son and has tens of thousands of dollars in CDs made “payable on death” to him so that he will not be without funds (which he WILL use I am sure to try to hire someone to kill me after her death if he can get his hands on these funds—I’ll do my best to see he does NOT get his hands on them)
Yes, I am still in the trenches of PARANOIA—and JUST CAUSE YOU ARE PARANOID DOES NOT MEAN SOMEONE IS NOT OUT TO GET YOU.
I no longer JUMP in a hyper alert state when a car pulls up, but I do keep a pistol either on me or handy, and I am prepared to use it to defend myself. I am no longer welcoming of strangers on my farm and I no longer reach out to shake their hand or welcome them in for a cup of coffee.
Spirit, I suggest that you go over to Dr. Leedom’s blog “Raising the At risk child” for information. She is in the process of raising a son sired by her psychopathic X-husband, and she is I think, one of the premier resources for people with children who have to co-parent with or raise the offspring of the psychopath. Good luck and God bless. There are several of us here that can give you advice on dealing with the offspring if they turn out “just like their father” or in my case, “just like grandpa” but I hope and pray to God that you don’t need my advice on that subject.
Cybil, thanks for sharing your frustration at the insensitivity and lack of understanding of our paranoia (which is VERY justified!) and how that lack of understanding invalidates our feelings.
It is sort of like a dear friend of mine said to me after the death of my husband (she had never been married) and she said “I know how you feel!”
I screamed at her “NO! you do NOT know how it is to see the man you loved and were married to burned over 95% of his body!” It took me almost a year to get over the emotional insult she delivered to me that day, though I KNEW she did not intend to do so.
Some people are condescending when they tell us to “get over it” or that we are “being paranoid” but others actually have GOOD INTENTIONS, but the thing is, they do actual emotional damage to us by invalidating our feelings and our KNOWN REALITY even if they do not intend to. The road to hell is PAVED WITH GOOD INTENTIONS.
I think partly that because these well meaning people do not want to ADMIT that such an evil deed could penetrate into their world that they are in DENIAL and it is to protect their own psyches that they feel and express these sentiments.
It is difficult for me not to become angry at these people, for me to have empathy for their self servinig and self protecting denial. But–it is MY LIFE AND I MUST PROTECT IT even if it makes me look, in their eyes as a nut job. MY REALITY DOES NOT DEPEND ON THEIR ASSESSMENT OF MY REALITY. That took me a long time to come to that spot on the healing road.
Cybil:
You are dead right that we have been in a war zone.
Most of us – particularly if the situation has gone on for a long period of time – have suffered Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). I personally am mostly recovered although the court appearance with my spath last month once more brought me to my knees – even though he was convicted! So – I won, yet I collapsed and went “gaga” for several days afterward.
Soldiers returning from combat suffered from what used to be called “shell-shock” (and not just from the bombings…) but is now known to be PTSD. Rape victims (of which I was also one, 15 years back) end up with PTSD.
We are all warriors, only none of us signed up for the draft.
I have been threatened also by both my daughter and her boyfriend.I to feel that my life could be in danger if I do not stay home and keep my mouth shut. Any little thing they here I said or heard me say they turn into something evil. I do not think I have to fear the path directly. I think he is the ring leader or cult leader as Ox Drover said. I think he likes to stay with in the lines of the Law and would get my daughter to do his dirty work. Is there any links to where I could learn more on how the path is able to turn there spouse against there family. I would like to read more on this. I need to learn and understand before I can move on. I can not turn my back until I am totally convinced that it is the right thing to do, because of my grand children. It is hard to turn your back on children and I keep trying for there sake they deserve a better child hood.
Hi Distressed Grandmother. There are a lot of articles on LF, if you look on the left hand side of the page… under “Categories”… there is a link you can click on called “Sociopaths and family”… many articles to read. I noticed one called: How Do You Help Someone Snared By A Sociopath? Hope this helps. God Bless you.
Dear grandmother
It sounds as if you hope to turn your daughter back towards you. I understand why but it may not be possible. The spath hooks different people in different ways. he looks for weaknesses and if your daughters weakness is a propensity towards doing evil then that is what he will use. my own little sister is in danger for her life because her husband is a trojan horse sent by my exP to infiltrate my family. everyone knows this now except for her. but no 1 can tell her because it turned out that she is also evil. She plotted with her husband,the cop/homeland security spath to have my brother sent to prison years ago. I thwarted their plans easily, they aren’t very smart. (Now i realize that my brother is a sociopath too) But they both did manage to get his brother to commit suicide. I was next. My exP contrived a plan to get me to commit suicide and my sister was in on it. Along with several neighbors.
The plan was to sabotage every aspect of my life until I was overwhelmed and couldn’t cope. Furthermore I was to be isolated and have nowhere to turn. XPs motivation was hate and malice but he tempted my evil sister and the trojan with the idea of removing all competitors for their parents inheritance. Sure, they are also filled with hate but my sister doesn’t realise this. She just thinks she should have all the money. So, my point is that your daughter’s weakness was probably her own narcissism and that is virtually impossible to eradicate. Let go, Let God.
Dear Grandmother,
While Skylar’s story sounds like the ranting of a paranoid nut job, my story is as “Crazy” as her’s and just as paranoid and TRUE! I have NO doubt that skylar’s story is true, or yours or any of the rest of the folks here….WE end up sounding like the nut-jobs even while our stories are TRUE…because people do not want to believe that people can just “BE THAT EVIL for NO REASON” that they can see.
It is like we are wearing aluminum foil on our heads to keep people from reading our thoughts! We appear totally outside of reality, but that doesn’t mean we are not right spot on. THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT EVIL and yes, we are paranoid, but that does not mean that people are not “out to get us.”
I find that if I told people I had been abducted by an alien space ship more people would be prone to Believe me than will believe me when I say “my Psychopathic son sent a friend of his from prison to infiltrate my family and murder me, and probably the rest of the family after that, to inherit everything we have.”
There are lots of articles here over 700 and each article may not be about exactly your SITUATION but learning about psychopaths in general will help you with learning about the particular one you are dealing with. It doesn’t matter if you are dealing with a lover, friend, boss, co-worker, child, in-law, out-law or what the relationship to the psychopath is they all 1) have NO conscience 2) are pathological liars 3)are unable to love and 4)have no empathy for others 5) don’t “bond” to others but DO 6) “own” other humans like their children 7) experience rage at being thwarted for any of their plans etc etc. SO learn about psychopaths and how they behave, how they think, how they dupe others to do their bidding.
Sky points out that your daughter may also be personality disordered in one way or another (there are several varieties of personality disorders, but ALL ARE TOXIC) and it is not unusual for two psychopathicly disordered people to hook up together, sometimes they feed on each other, with what I call a “gasoline and fire” relationship of mutual abuse and counter abuse…kids in the middle of these relationships also get abused.
I understand you not wanting to give up on your daughter or the kids–I didn’t want to give up on either of my biological sons (fortunately no grandkids) one bio son is just an asshole-jerk, the other is a full blown psychopath in prison now for murder! But the thing is, I can’t “heal” either one of them and I REFUSE to put up with their crap so even the one who is just the jerk, I don’t need that in my life. Period. I won’t tolerate him lying to me. He isn’t out robbing liquor stores or killing people but he is TOXIC and dishonest so I need him why? NOT!
I understand that you want to help your grandkids but the point I’m trying to make is that YOU ARE HELPLESS IN THIS SITUATION….your daughter and her husband CONTROL 100% of your access to those kids until they are grown. Unless it is something you can call department of human or child services (such as gross abuse) and get the kids taken away from your daughter and her husband, YOU HAVE NO CONTROL. That isn’t being hateful to you, it is just being BLUNT. Admitting that to yourself is I imagine painful too…I know it was painful to me to admit that there was NOTHING I COULD DO for my sons, they were determined to destroy their own lives and our relationship. One just doesn’t care much about me, the other hates me. I don’t need either one. If they did have children, I couldn’t have a relationship with the kids either. I couldn’t help the grandkids (if I had any) if they needed me unless it was to turn the parents into CPS because of overt gross abuse.
I’m not sure how much contact your daughter and her husband allow you with the kids or what kind of relationship you have if any with the kids, but just realize that “you can only do what you can only do.” Sometimes SOME relationship with the kids is worth a price of some crap, and sometimes it isn’t worth it because it costs you way more than you can “afford to pay” in grief and doesn’t really help the kids either. ONLY YOU can make the decision when the “price” vs “benefit” ratio is not enough or is enough. Good luck and God bless you grandmother! (((hugs))))