UPDATED FOR 2024. Last week, Lovefraud posted a letter from “Cybil,” I did not choose this guy. Here’s more of her experience about “things people say.”
I’ll call this, “Things people say, part II.” This is the other one that bugs me: “You’re paranoid.” I always have a good 24 hours of self-doubt before I realize they’re the ones that are nuts, not me. I know a lot more about what crazy stuff is out there in the world than your average, never-tangled-with-a-sociopath human does.
I just went to a seminar of a national expert on how domestic violence leads to murder, especially for women. Over and over he said, “Trust your instinct.” He told the audience to take women seriously when they have these stories (like those on this blog) and that if she is a co-worker you should elevate these stories to security for everyone’s safety because it could easily become a workplace shooting.
Paranoid
But continually I have had people in my life say I am paranoid since my ex came into my life. HE used to tell me I was paranoid. Crazy. Hysterical. Depressed. I wasn’t. I was living in a psychological and physical war zone. People who survive sociopaths have survived wars. The people on the blog are war-buddies.
The funny part is watching how the people who told me I was paranoid act when their blinders fall off. Like my parents, every few weeks another blinder falls off. When the death threats came in, they were in shock and they never said, “You told us so,” but they started taking things a bit more seriously and realized that when they told me I was paranoid that he was going to kill me (Well, yes, he hit you, he lied to you, he had an arrest record, but he’d never kill you. He’d get in trouble. He’s not that stupid), they were wrong. The sad part is watching them go back into denial as the “living with death threats” thing starts to become routine.
A strange event happened the other day. I called the police. My parents say: You know that was just a random thing that happened. You’re paranoid.
Really?
Responsibility
I am going to start telling people in my life, you are not allowed to tell me I’m paranoid or that I chose this guy. Not only is it horribly deflating, it goes to the heart of what I am healing from and getting stronger by.
When people tell me “You chose him,” they are telling me I have to take more responsibility, but taking more than my share of responsibility for what happened is what kept me in the bad relationship longer than I should have been. Because I started to believe it was my fault, because he told me it was my fault. If I could just fix me, then maybe he wouldn’t have to get so crazy and mean. It took me several years of dangerous experimenting with every “me” I could be, to realize it wasn’t ME. Yeah, I don’t have a problem taking responsibility and I don’t need help taking more.
When people tell me “You’re paranoid,” they are really questioning my instinct and telling me not to listen to it. I am a year and a half out from living with an abuser and a gaslighter; I am largely over the hyper-alert period. I know what I feel. Doubting that was also what kept me in the bad place: Maybe he is telling the truth, maybe he did do that for my own good, maybe I am being too judgmental, maybe I should give him another chance. Not doubting my instinct to walk out that last time was what let me walk out!!!!
I’m not going back there. Not even in a mental sense.
Learn more: Beyond betrayal — how to recover from the trauma
Lovefraud originally posted this story on Nov. 27, 2010.
The sociopathic MO in three easy steps
Dear Sky,
Darlin, you are NOT the “most gullible” person on LF—go back and reread the “true love fraud stories”—every one of them was gullible for a long time, we ALL WERE…because we did want to believe X loved us (whether that was lover, child, spouse, parent, sib, friend, etc.) WE WANT TO BE LOVED. They want control. SOOOOO they pretend love in order to get CONTROL. DUH! WOW, that’s simple, right?
How do you tell if LOVE IS REAL and not faked? BY how they treat you. WOW, Simple, right?
If they say they love you but they beat you black and blue, is that “love”? How about if they say that YOU made them beat you and it is for “your own good?” Is that love?
How about if they lie to you? How about if they steal from you? How about if they know someone is trying to hurt you and they DO NOT WARN YOU? (remind you of your parents knowing your X was staying with you to get the money?) How about my son C knowing that the Trojan Horse P and his wife, and my egg donor were out to run me out of my home and off the farm, and bankrupt me and NOT WARNING ME. Was that “love and respect” for his beloved mommy? Not hardly! So I’m supposed to believe he loves me? So I can and should trust him WHY?
Yea, my egg donor pretended to be “nice” to me too, and so did my P-BF and so did the Trojan Horse Psychopath, but I eventually saw through the act, but When I saw the lies I was too anxious to “forgive and forget” and give them “another chance” but I am done with second and thrid and 100th chances now….no more!
Skylar –
oh honey, you are NOT the most gullible person here at all. I actually don’t know that gullibility is the word for us.
As far as the scammers go (spouses and “friends” who have ripped us off), we all know that they targeted us because we didn’t know what they were and we had no way of knowing what they were until we learned it (like we are doing now). How can that be our fault? No. Not gullible, but targeted and raped. We were not responsible.
As for the flesh-and-bloods who have abused us (the parents, the siblings, the children) – that can’t be our fault either. It’s normal to expect love, loyalty and protection from these people; hell, that’s what WE give THEM!!! There’s nothing wrong with our inbuilt instincts to behave like a normal mother, father, sibling or child – and to repeatedly forgive and hope for the best. That IS what normal families do too, you know. It’s just that in our cases, our abnormal flesh-and-bloods prevail over us until we learn to deflect/reject their dysfunctional behaviour.
WE are the ones who have to LEARN to treat them in an abnormal way because THEY are SO ABNORMAL – and WE are so NORMAL.
You are not gullible my love. None of us are. We are just normal/real people trying to make sense of an unreal situation.
To all,
For those of us who see the good and want to be love and be loved– We are not gullible. Naive maybe.
Now, just look for actions, not words. In those you will find the truth.
flowerpower –
I agree, but I do think a disclaimer should be added : Look for ALL actions in their PAST as well because many of them are able to keep up the show for a long period of time. (With mine it was 3 years before he turned on me. Up until then, his actions toward me were not so dangerous and only looked at times like the understandable collateral damage from an allegedly sad life)(PUKE!!!!)
Agreed past actions can be used if you can find out blatant bad ones. In my case they were hidden.
But, I dont know your story so forgive me if I am wrong. Understandable collateral damage may have been actions-even tho not dangerous-that you may know now cannot be acceptable. You deserve better.
Believe me, we all have baggage. But expecting the utmost respect in all areas is something WE must do…regardless of their excuses.
I am guilty of excusing too much of the N behavior because it wasnt blatantly bad..just selfish or immature. And that is what I now know was my problem.
There were strong signs of disrespect right from the beginning…but they werent bad enough for me to know that underneath was big baggage. Now I know.
So look for clear actions that show unselfish love, empathy, respect, compassion, honesty…and those that show the opposite even in the small stuff. If he wants to “go dutch” I now run!! Save your money until you can afford to treat me or move on.
We must love ourselves enough to expect the treatment we deserve and love others enough not to allow them to mistreat us…boundaries are set the benefit of all.
Some Ns and Ps will do things like “eat the last piece of cake, knowing you haven’t had any but feel entitled to eat it any way” and some will “eat it to MAKE SURE YOU DON’T GET ANY,” so it sort of depends on a PATTERN of behaviors I think.
Sometimes a “little” thing like eating that last piece of cake and not caring you haven’t had any, or even being aware that it would be NICE to be CONSIDERATE of your desires, wishes, or rights can add up to where you can see that there is a pattern of disrespect and lack of empathy/caring/consideration.
So what if she hadn’t had a slice of the cake, I was hungry! She should have eaten it sooner and not left it there for me to see and want.
That pattern of thinking may seem “small” at first, but if you start to observe the pattern it may warn you of BIGGER things to come…like not only cleaning out the cupboard but the bank account as well.
My parents were and are just the opposite, they would give me or any child all the cake and get none.
But everyday I would hear how raising children was a curse and a sacrifice. I never heard that it was a blessing.
So they are the hardworking self-sacrificing type of P’s, that damage you emotionally with guilt and gas lighting.
I don’t know…I still wonder if I’m judging them incorrectly.
They were my programmers, how can I know if my programming is wrong. I’ve read the books but I can’t hear the music. You know what I mean? It’s like Steve was saying about the sociopath not making any sense, well, I think they are sociopaths because of the fruit they have borne, but I feel entitled to be loved by my parents so therefore they are not sociopaths.
Oxy, I love that analogy! I think we all come away seeing the subtle signs of character or lack thereof –in the small stuff. But this is really practical. The cake eater trick could be a nice litmus test for us all to use, lol.
My ex used both the entitlement and the withholding rationale for his behavior…and now he’s fa!t lol. Must be lots of folks in his kitchen now that he has to control. But add to those motives the “sneaky” one of eating the cake but blaming the dog— because you were too stupid to leave it.
Months after the divorce, I noticed an automatic bill payment for his property was going through my checking account as a monthly draft. When I pointed this out, he blamed me and said I was being stupid or I would have seen and stopped this sooner.
He KNEW about it all along–he had instructed the business to leave the draft from my account without my knowledge of course…until I caught him.
Dear Kay,
Yea, I see your ass-backwards logic or is it bass-ackwards? LOL
We deserved to be loved and nurtured by our parents, and I know that raising children is a chore, I’ve done it…but you know, at the same time, we didn’t ask to be born so they took on the RESPONSIBILITY to raise us when they produced us. They were OBLIGATED to raise us, to nurture us and so they were NOT martyrs for doing so. It was a RESPONSIBILITY and OBLIGATION. When we voluntarily take on an obligation or responsibility we do NOT GET BROWNIE POINTS FOR LIVING UP TO IT. It should be a JOY not a cross to bear to raise your children. No one made them do it. They CHOSE to do it. Therefore they are RESPONSIBLE for fulfilling that obligation.
Letter to my DNA DONOR: So if you didn’t want me, didn’t love me, why the fark did you have me? I deserved to be loved and nurtured just by the very fact I was born to you. If you didn’t want me, you could have given me to someone who did. I have a right to be angry with you because you withheld from me what I was entitled to, even though I am just now belatedly realizing you withheld it from me. But I am not going to let it ruin my life because you didn’t love me and nurture me, because I do know I am worthy of love and I will love myself.
I agree with you, flower, they will use any excuse to blame it on someone else! LOL But, if eating the last piece of cake before going to bed (after everyone else has had some too) makes me a psychopath, I plead guilty! But I’m working on losing that fat arse! LOL
SKYLAR,
That is interesting,..your parents were martyrs. That is another variation. There is an interesting explanatoin called the Karpman triangle -3 roles to keep the drama…rescuer, victim and abuser (persecuter). These keep the drama going in dysfunctional families so there is not problem solving.
The rescuer is the martyr but they sometimes manufacture the need to rescue by being the abuser. Sounds like they are also being “victims” to perceived “abuse” they need to be the martyrs. Unhealthy systems go round and round on this until someone breaks the cycle. It is very interesting..