UPDATED FOR 2024. Last week, Lovefraud posted a letter from “Cybil,” I did not choose this guy. Here’s more of her experience about “things people say.”
I’ll call this, “Things people say, part II.” This is the other one that bugs me: “You’re paranoid.” I always have a good 24 hours of self-doubt before I realize they’re the ones that are nuts, not me. I know a lot more about what crazy stuff is out there in the world than your average, never-tangled-with-a-sociopath human does.
I just went to a seminar of a national expert on how domestic violence leads to murder, especially for women. Over and over he said, “Trust your instinct.” He told the audience to take women seriously when they have these stories (like those on this blog) and that if she is a co-worker you should elevate these stories to security for everyone’s safety because it could easily become a workplace shooting.
Paranoid
But continually I have had people in my life say I am paranoid since my ex came into my life. HE used to tell me I was paranoid. Crazy. Hysterical. Depressed. I wasn’t. I was living in a psychological and physical war zone. People who survive sociopaths have survived wars. The people on the blog are war-buddies.
The funny part is watching how the people who told me I was paranoid act when their blinders fall off. Like my parents, every few weeks another blinder falls off. When the death threats came in, they were in shock and they never said, “You told us so,” but they started taking things a bit more seriously and realized that when they told me I was paranoid that he was going to kill me (Well, yes, he hit you, he lied to you, he had an arrest record, but he’d never kill you. He’d get in trouble. He’s not that stupid), they were wrong. The sad part is watching them go back into denial as the “living with death threats” thing starts to become routine.
A strange event happened the other day. I called the police. My parents say: You know that was just a random thing that happened. You’re paranoid.
Really?
Responsibility
I am going to start telling people in my life, you are not allowed to tell me I’m paranoid or that I chose this guy. Not only is it horribly deflating, it goes to the heart of what I am healing from and getting stronger by.
When people tell me “You chose him,” they are telling me I have to take more responsibility, but taking more than my share of responsibility for what happened is what kept me in the bad relationship longer than I should have been. Because I started to believe it was my fault, because he told me it was my fault. If I could just fix me, then maybe he wouldn’t have to get so crazy and mean. It took me several years of dangerous experimenting with every “me” I could be, to realize it wasn’t ME. Yeah, I don’t have a problem taking responsibility and I don’t need help taking more.
When people tell me “You’re paranoid,” they are really questioning my instinct and telling me not to listen to it. I am a year and a half out from living with an abuser and a gaslighter; I am largely over the hyper-alert period. I know what I feel. Doubting that was also what kept me in the bad place: Maybe he is telling the truth, maybe he did do that for my own good, maybe I am being too judgmental, maybe I should give him another chance. Not doubting my instinct to walk out that last time was what let me walk out!!!!
I’m not going back there. Not even in a mental sense.
Learn more: Beyond betrayal — how to recover from the trauma
Lovefraud originally posted this story on Nov. 27, 2010.
The sociopathic MO in three easy steps
You guys are amazing, this group of people is the most incredible group on the planet today. I firmly believe that. Thank you DONNA for creating this site, and thank you every single one of you who shares your thoughts and feelings. I really feel that we are not just making progress for ourselves, but also for the human race, as our knowledge grows by leaps and bounds, we spread it to all those we have contact with, by our actions and words in the world.
Everyone has been so helpful. I’ve been suffering about this alone for over a year. I did mention it last year, thought it was better when Kathleen gave me a pep talk, but I can see that I didn’t get closure and now I must step up to the plate and do that. But first I have a few more questions for those of you are dealing with your own abusive parents.
It has to do with what you said, Kathy, “…these people who are plaguing her are somehow exempt from the lessons she learned already, about not giving energy to people who drain her or make her feel bad. The other is the hope or desire or expectation that they can or will be something other than they are.”
YES! exactly right, I think that they are exempt because I have cognitive dissonance: My rational mind tells me one thing and my heart tells me another. This sends my “gut” (the third member of this party MIND, HEART AND GUT) into a panic. To make it worse, I know that cognitive dissonance is what happens when you are in the presence of a narcissist so that further confirms that my brain is right but my heart just wants to explode with love for my parents. – I’m crying now.
NC works for a spath lover, because you can find a new lover, but with parents it’s a one shot deal and NC is just like a death sentence.
This is another case where I can relate to the sociopath in Steve’s therapy session. The socio seems to be unable to stop having 2 completely opposite ideas. For me, I know that I have been imprinted or “programmed” like software, to be attached to my parents. It isn’t going to go away anymore than I could change my sexuality. Maybe I could, don’t know if I want to.
Oxy, you and several others have given examples of how your relationshit with the parents are dealt with, either NC or superificial C (SC). But all of you seem to have avoided actually saying whether you feel love for the egg or sperm donor. We talk about how NC helps us fall out of love with the spath lovers. Does it do the same for parents? Can any of you say that you no longer love them? I want to know if it is possible. I can’t imagine that it is. Unlike my spath who despised his mom, I don’t want to despise my parents. I want to either feel love or feel nothing.
sky – i wrote to you further up this thread @....... 9PM
i have been nc with my dad for a year now, my sister a bit longer. i have closed the door on my father, but i know the love and pain are all wedged up against it. i don’T Ever expect to have him in my life again, BECAUSE I AM NOT TAKING SHIT ANYMORE. yes, i think it is quite possible to stop loving them. there is no reason left to love him….he has devalued and discarded me….no more pearls before swine.
best,
one step
Jazzy,
I’m glad that your parents are great people, have lived long good lives and are your best friends.
That is what I thought I had. It is a great loss.
I’m sorry that you are afraid and have PTSD. I know about PTSD and not finding words, sometimes I can barely talk because I can’t remember words. But when I type, I have the luxury of time and a thesaurus! Take your time, write your thoughts.
Dear Skylar,
“Feeling nothing” is a long way down the road, but it is the nirvana of indifference–not hating them, not craving contact with them, just –nadda—some days it comes and some days it goes, but the CRITICAL PAIN is not there any more…either for my P sperm donor (and boy did I ever HATE HIM!) or for my egg donor—and I did love her, Skylar, but what I feel now (most of the time is just nothing, or at worst, disgust, disappointment, sadness at what could have been, should have been, frustration that she would continue to enable my p-son, but not love. I realize that she never loved me, never had a “natural affection” for me like a normal “mother” should have for a child. All she had was an envious, toxic “relationshit”–so, I have come to PEACE with what we don’t have, what we never had, what we won’t have.
I don’t need or want “another mother” like I would “divorce” a lover and find another one, I actually don’t want another lover either, I’m perfectly OK without one. If I were to find another one, fine, but I don’t NEED one to be complete.
I’m happy like I am and it sort of just SNEAKED UP ON ME—the feeling of happiness, and I didn’t even notice until one day I just looked up and it was THERE!.
You too, Skylar can Be happy without a relationshit with your DNA donors–that is the thing, bottom line, is that each of us is HERE ALONE on this planet, and no one can live our lives for us, no one can make us happy or not happy, we have to find that INSIDE OURSELVES. I can ENJOY love from this or that person, enjoy a relationship, but they can die, leave me, decide they hate me, and if MY HAPPINESS depends on THEM, then I can never be secure. I have to make my happiness inside me, then SHARE it with other secure and good people who love me.
If someone doesn’t love me, it is THEIR LOSS not mine. I’ve decided I am a pretty good person, not perfect, but I LIKE ME AND I’M OKAY, so I’m gonna live and be happy, and anyone who wants to share that happiness is welcome, but if they want to destroy it—to hell with them, I don’t need it! (((Hugs)))) I know this is a difficult “decision” and you’ll go one way and then the other, but you will eventually find YOUR special and unique way. God bless!
Hey Skylar and anyone else still on here.
Ditto skylar – these people are amazing for both surviving and sharing/opening up here so that we can get our sanity back and figure out how to move on and make better decisions…to protect ourselves and believe in ourselves.
It’s now been 3 years since I’ve been out and I can only say that I still struggle from the fallout of what happened to me, but I’m nowhere near the same person who was victimized repeatedly. (14 year marriage, then 1 year with the man my attorneys set me up with during divorce, then a brief spath last winter who closed the lid on my coffin – all 3 did me in, slightly different ways so I didn’t recognize it at first, but same net effect. the forest that was my mind was burned to ashes – which I now see as a good thing…cleared out the last of the ‘junk’ that needed to be burned)
So, for you skylar, I hope that you can get to where I am now (never thought I’d make it here) – that you can feel nothing…that is the only way to be towards these people, parents or spouse/lover…it doesn’t matter. (my father was the one who started the cycle with me – my Ex of 14/15 years completed it) but I do feel for you that you say ‘parents’ as in both. I can only imagine how hard…and I’m glad you have others here who can relate and teach you how they’ve coped. BUT NC IS REALLY THE ONLY WAY – and it took me a while to really put that into play and even more time before it worked it’s magic for me. Just do it and give it TIME.
I have so much I need to write – for anyone entering into the scary journey of escape or trying to shield children – but I wanted to tell Cybil thanks and that what you wrote at the top here sounds like I could have written it. I know we all have had more than a few of those moments here, and it’s such a relief to get that validation that, NO, I am not in need of accepting more responsibility and, NO, I will not allow anyone to discourage me from calling something what it is.
I have become very brave of late, which isn’t always popular or comfortable but I need to say – and should say – what is on my mind. And people who are predators should be pointed out. (safely)
I’d like to contribute something in a separate blog entry or article so I’ll email Donna – not sure yet of the proper protocol – but tonight and this past week were too profound not to share.
btw, I still thank Donna & many of you – in my head mostly – at least once a week even though I don’t read most of what comes across my email inbox, and I haven’t posted in a while. Just know you all made a difference, that this is truly a safe place to learn and heal, and that there is a lot of reassurance that comes from just seeing the topics/news – the fact that we now have a great book from Donna (can’t wait to get it and share it!). And that I quietly cheer for all of you in your various stages of growth.
Appreciate you and wish you all well
Dearest Oxy, Im hugging that little girl that was you, and placing her in my Heart. Shell be OK.I wish Id been your MUM!
We can Mother each other!,LOL!!
Love, Mother Hen, gem.XXX
Thank you gem! (((hugs))))
Your Welcome, darlin!!
Love, Mother Hen gem.XX
Ps That little girl is still in there, she never left.
Shes been patiently waiting all this time for a Mom to love her. Im willing to step up and BE that MOM.
So, tell her, her wait is over, she is VERY much loved!!.
{{{HUGS!!}}
Mama gem.XX
Oxy, the Chinese have a saying,
:If you chase the Bluebird of Happiness you will never catch her.
But one day, as you sit quietly, you will look around, and find she is sitting on your shoulder!.”
Ok, Ok, I KNOW the other quote is,
“May the Bluebird of happiness crap all over your Birthday cake!!”
Love, Mama gem,XX
ONESTEP,
I finally found your post on another thread, don’t have much time, but so much to say.
you aren’t rambling, it’s the flow of our subconscience that gives us wisdom. You have lots of wisdom to share, gotta go finish later.