UPDATED FOR 2024. Last week, Lovefraud posted a letter from “Cybil,” I did not choose this guy. Here’s more of her experience about “things people say.”
I’ll call this, “Things people say, part II.” This is the other one that bugs me: “You’re paranoid.” I always have a good 24 hours of self-doubt before I realize they’re the ones that are nuts, not me. I know a lot more about what crazy stuff is out there in the world than your average, never-tangled-with-a-sociopath human does.
I just went to a seminar of a national expert on how domestic violence leads to murder, especially for women. Over and over he said, “Trust your instinct.” He told the audience to take women seriously when they have these stories (like those on this blog) and that if she is a co-worker you should elevate these stories to security for everyone’s safety because it could easily become a workplace shooting.
Paranoid
But continually I have had people in my life say I am paranoid since my ex came into my life. HE used to tell me I was paranoid. Crazy. Hysterical. Depressed. I wasn’t. I was living in a psychological and physical war zone. People who survive sociopaths have survived wars. The people on the blog are war-buddies.
The funny part is watching how the people who told me I was paranoid act when their blinders fall off. Like my parents, every few weeks another blinder falls off. When the death threats came in, they were in shock and they never said, “You told us so,” but they started taking things a bit more seriously and realized that when they told me I was paranoid that he was going to kill me (Well, yes, he hit you, he lied to you, he had an arrest record, but he’d never kill you. He’d get in trouble. He’s not that stupid), they were wrong. The sad part is watching them go back into denial as the “living with death threats” thing starts to become routine.
A strange event happened the other day. I called the police. My parents say: You know that was just a random thing that happened. You’re paranoid.
Really?
Responsibility
I am going to start telling people in my life, you are not allowed to tell me I’m paranoid or that I chose this guy. Not only is it horribly deflating, it goes to the heart of what I am healing from and getting stronger by.
When people tell me “You chose him,” they are telling me I have to take more responsibility, but taking more than my share of responsibility for what happened is what kept me in the bad relationship longer than I should have been. Because I started to believe it was my fault, because he told me it was my fault. If I could just fix me, then maybe he wouldn’t have to get so crazy and mean. It took me several years of dangerous experimenting with every “me” I could be, to realize it wasn’t ME. Yeah, I don’t have a problem taking responsibility and I don’t need help taking more.
When people tell me “You’re paranoid,” they are really questioning my instinct and telling me not to listen to it. I am a year and a half out from living with an abuser and a gaslighter; I am largely over the hyper-alert period. I know what I feel. Doubting that was also what kept me in the bad place: Maybe he is telling the truth, maybe he did do that for my own good, maybe I am being too judgmental, maybe I should give him another chance. Not doubting my instinct to walk out that last time was what let me walk out!!!!
I’m not going back there. Not even in a mental sense.
Learn more: Beyond betrayal — how to recover from the trauma
Lovefraud originally posted this story on Nov. 27, 2010.
Skylar –
“NC works for a spath lover, because you can find a new lover, but with parents it’s a one shot deal and NC is just like a death sentence”
I know, I know, I know, I know…..
Pretty sure my father is an N; definite that my mum is a first class enabler. Recently had this conversation with my 2 younger brothers – she is a good mum in so many ways, but not emotionally. She always chooses our father’s feelings over ours – and he is an unreasonable, over-bearing control-freaking pig. She chooses not to upset or enrage him – and sacrifices her own kids in the process.
Over the years I have tried endlessly to talk to them both, together and separately; to say to them, “you know, even though we are dysfunctional, I really love you guys and want us to be a proper family but we can’t unless we sort all of the nonsense out and stop pretending there’s nothing wrong”. I now refuse to play happy families while having to tip-toe on egg-shells to avoid a nasty scene. It’s just crap.
I have forgiven my father so many times for so many hurtful and abusive offences. The last time I did that (about 6 years ago) I promised myself to have a cordial yet distant relationship with him. It was the only way to protect myself from him. Yet still he tried to interfere with my life and dominate me (I’m 44 years old for crying out loud!!!) and continued to criticise my every opinion and decision. Crunch-time came just over a year ago, when I confided something important to them both after a lovely shared meal together when we were all relaxed and smiling. He instantly reverted to type, yelling, screaming and name-calling, ordering me around and thumping his fists on the table. I left and have not gone back. My mum calls me occasionally and I still care about her, but I don’t care if I never see him again.
It sounds unkind of me, but I have managed now to freeze any feeling I still had for the man. I wish him no harm but neither do I care if it befalls him. I can’t afford to anymore. It IS awful that a daughter should have to feel this way – that she should have to self-protect against those who should love her more than anyone else does, but I have finally accepted that he doesn’t. That he never did. And that maybe he just doesn’t have the necessary equipment to love a child unconditionally. My brothers feel the same way, so it’s just a mess all round.
As for it being a death sentence – that’s how I felt for many years before his last attack on me; it’s why I kept trying to salvage something that wasn’t even there. Now, I don’t know whether I would even go to his funeral if he died – if I did, it would only be to support my mother. I can’t imagine actually shedding a tear over him.
I know that I was not the best Mom in the world either but always tried to do the right thing for the right reason. I do not think for one minute I was always right. I made a lot of mistakes that I can not change. The bottom line though is that I love my children very much and do not wish for them to feel guilty about any thing that I have done or done for them. I have had my children say that they feel that they owe me and feel guilty if they say no. Well that is there own guilt not my guilt I wished on them. I have the right to ask them for help once in a while and they have the right to say no. I will love them anyway. I think this is a mother daughter thing that has nothing to do with the way they were raised it is because we were there for them to much and they bring on there own guilt. It is okay for our children to ask us favors but when we ask them we make them feel guilty. I did not have the bet childhood either. My Dad was mentally and fiscally abusive to my mother and mentally abusive to us kids. There was good that came out of it he raised five very hard workers that all respect and love there Mother very much. We love our father two but do not respect him. I moved on and tried to find the happy medium in raising my children. I was strict in some ways but allowed my children to make there own choices as I guided them. I always let them know when I felt they were making a mistake but stood by them no matter what there choices were. Yet It made me feel the Same way Oxy says here mother is and I like Oxy’s Mother, do not know how to fix it and if I did I would fix it in a New York minute. Maybe I deserved losing my Daughter and Grandchildren. Maybe I killed them with kindness. I am who I am and I do not know how to change. I do not know how to be tough. I do not know how to stop hurting or stop crying and for the first time in my life can find no way to fix this. Every time I try I fail probably because I am causing more guilt and not intending too. All I want is forgiveness whether I was right or wrong as I do not have that answer. It was another one of those choices I made for the right reason at the time and was a choice made out of love and the motherly instinct to protect my family.
aussiegirl – although your dad is overtly verbally abusive and mine is not, the dynamic is familiar.
i didn’t know he was an n, until i got here. then i started to read. I have an n ex also – i learned more about her weirdness after i go here also. mind you, she might be bpd with high n traits – doesn’t particularly matter, i have a good enough sense about my diagnosis of them, for now.
my n ex ‘b’ – well, she really blew me away. i hadn’t gone out with anyone like her before – a wounded ‘b’ was a wrathful out of control, controlling creature. i was completely stumped by her and her behavior; it DIDN’T MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME. But i thought i was dealing with someone who is ‘dysfunctional’ not ‘disordered’.
It was a long and difficult separation once i was well and truly hooked. 2 years ago, we went on a trip at xmas, with another person, and what was set in motion during that trip culminated with a punch pulled in front of my face a month later. (I told her quite flatly, with no affect in my voice, ‘i will charge you.’)
I was traumatized, and i had had it. I wrote her a goodbye letter (yah, i know) and mailed it off to her (she lived in a different city). she’s tried to connect with me a few times – even after i sent her a terse email saying i didn’t ever want to deal with her again. Two months after the fist in front of face and threatening stance episode, i met the spath; we’ll call that ‘primed’.
It actually took the spath to really end my relationship with ‘b’ within me. the spath did make some astute observations in the time i knew her. and she made one about ‘b’ that just sliced through all my romantic entanglement with ‘b’.
…and on it goes – fidning out about s/p i found out more about n, so i chucked my dad. had already chucked my sis, who may also be an n – she is mentally and physically ill (she has the same sort of chemical sensitivity that i have, but for years, and much worse. they can make you look and act crazy too.), but it is her self extreme centerdness – from childhood on, that makes it impossible to be around her. well, that and the fact of meanness and that she melts down emotionally many times an hour and it is a lot of work, and i’m not doing that work anymore.
when i talked with a therapist (known as the ‘cognitive dude’ – who was not much use) about the spath – the very first words that came out of my mouth were, ‘my father stole (money) from me.’ He suggested I sue him… said, ‘but i don’t want to make the irrevocable tear in the family fabric. He told me all I had was threads anyway.
i too have ‘frozen’ my feeling for my dad. my sis, well, i never had much of a relationship with her until the last few years anyway, it doesn’t run so deep as i have always been guarded with her.
i was very good supply for that f***** known as my dad. and my mom, MONDO enabler, always trying to get me to do the same…fuuuuuu**.
i don’t know what to do with this shambles. i need to move on – but my horizon doesn’t seem vast to me – so many challenges. i think that moving on will enable me to move past them a bit – but to the extent that i can move on, maybe that’s the extent to which i will be able to understand/ accept and heal from these sad painful and non supportive relationships with the ‘family’ i have.
Assie your mother sounds like the parent my daughter has become. She enables her n the same way your mother did she expects the children to change for her n, She wants them to please him even if they feel it is wrong. I do understand this as I see the pain in my Grand children’ s eyes because they are unable to please. Or do not know how. The truth is they will never please that man he will always look for the bad not the good. She will sit there and say nothing to defend the children and agree with everything he says and does to his face but will complain behind his back.
Dear Grandmother,
I hear your pain, and I know you called the protective services because you were concerned—you did the RIGHT THING, but sometimes the “right thing” pithes them off.
I also did the RIGHT THING when I filed suit to have my egg donor declared incompetent in order to get the 3X convicted pedophile sex offender out of my egg donor’s home as her “life in caregiver” but doing the RIGHT THING to try to FORCE someone who is doing the WRONG THING usually BACK FIRES on the person trying to do the RIGHT THING.
It is a RIGHT THING for a cop to arrest a person caught stealing, and put them in jail. BUT it does NOT ENDEAR the cop to the robber just because the cop did the RIGHT THING. From then on the robber when he gets out of jail is NOT LIKELY to pick a cop as his “best friend” and say “Wow, cop, thanks for putting my sorry ass in jail.”
It is the same way with people who abuse their own children, they are NOT going to appreciate having this pointed out to them and the kids taken away, or themselves made to take an anger management course. They are going to be FURIOUS with the person and/or agency that did this.
Grandmother, I too have been an enabler with my children, and with others I wanted to “help”—but who were using me. The enabler also gets a “reward” of sorts, because there is literally a brain chemical released when we “help” others, when we “comfort” others that is our REWARD. BUT, when we enable people (give to them) if they don’t use that GIFT the way we think they should then we become angry at them and think “look what I did for you and you dont’ appreciate it, you threw that gift away and didn’t run your life like I THINK YOU SHOULD.”
Well, giving a GIFT doesn’t also give us control of how that GIFT is used. Yet, an ENABLER seems to get the idea in their head somewhere that it does. A person who TRULY gives a GIFT rather than an ADVANCE PAYMENT ON CONTROL doesn’t require the receiver of the gift to run their lives like the “giver” thinks they should.
It is a FINE LINE between a helper/giver and an enabler, and the line is drawn in the INTENTIONS and the feelings of the giver vs. the receiver.
If I stop on the highway and I help a woman change a flat tire, I am doing a “good deed” for her and I don’t expect anything from her in return maybe not even a “Thanks so much, I appreciate that.” Or if I am walking along the street and I see a bum on the street an””I’m really hungry” I give him $5 and then he gets up and goes to the liquor store, I may FEEL that I had been conned by him PRETENDING he wanted money for food (which was a USE I APPROVED OF) but then he used it for booze which was a USE I DID NOT APPROVE OF and I got angry.
Actually, since I GAVE him the $5 on The SPOKEN CONDITION of him using it for food, he sort of VIOLATED THE VERBAL AGREEMENT we had made that I was giving him money for FOOD. So I sort of have a legitimate “reason” to be angry because he violated an agreement.
However, if I just handed him the money without any verbal agreement and he went to the liquor store instead of the grocery, I HAVE NO RIGHT TO FEEL USED because there was no verbal or otherwise agreement.
When we HELP people conditionally, it is NOT a gift.
When we give them things freely without conditions as GIFTS we cannot LATER impose control of what they do as conditions.
My egg donor tried to “give” me things that she would LATER use as CLUBS to hit me over the head with and make me feel “guilty” for taking her “gifts” and then not giving her “GIFTS” in return by letting her CONTROL ME or do me “FAVORS.”
I understand that your children are NOT obligated to do things for you, and that they may FEEL that they ARE obligated and not feel comfortable saying “NO, I can’t do that right now” The dynamics of your relationships are probably still not where they should be, but YOU can change your reactions, but they have to change their own reactions. But if YOU change your reactions then they will be able to change their own. It will take TIME and patience on your part, but you can. As far as the daughter who has the children you are worried about, there’s not a lot you can do to change her behavior or attitude.
But, you CAN change how you respond to her behavior and being away from the kids (and I doubt that will change) but in any way you can, through your husband visiting them or gifts to them, or cards, etc. you can let those children know you love them. Especially the older one that knows you better. You can also realize that there is NOTHING YOU CAN DO to change your daughter’s thinking or behavior except to pray and work on accepting what IS rather than beating yourself up for what WAS in the past, or what IS NOT in the now or the future.
None of us were/are perfect parents, Grandmother, and it sounds like you had a role model for being enabling in a situation where there was abuse in the home you grew up in. You survived, and sometimes the things we learn to do as children in order to survive are not really the best options as adults, but it is difficult to UNlearn survival skills when the situation changes, so dont’ beat yourself up for learning to survive either. That’s been hard for me to quit beating myself up, but I work on it and am working on forgiving myself for not being PERFECT. Not even God expects me to be perfect, so why should I? Give yourself some slack, Grandmother, and learn and grow, that is ALL any of us can do. None of us can go back and RE-do decisions made in the past. ((((hugs))) and God bless.
Skylar, you wrote: “NC works for a spath lover, because you can find a new lover, but with parents it’s a one shot deal and NC is just like a death sentence.” You also mentioned being imprinted on them and not having any choice.
These are your current beliefs, but I suggest that you study them a bit. Break them down into their separate parts. If you meditate, use bits of the statements as mantras. Or just take bits and repeat them over and over and over to yourself until their meaning fades and you start to see what’s behind them.
Every single thing you wrote in these statements can be questioned. Debated with someone else, like a therapist, or just with yourself. You’ve done a very good thing just getting this stuff out of your head and into the air, so you can look at it and it can be discussed.
I want to offer you an imaginary exercise. It has two parts.
First take one of your parents and write down everything you believe an ideal parent should be. Let’s say it’s the father you wish you had. If that’s hard for you, think of what they’re doing that angers or frustrates you, and flip it around for what would be its opposite. Then put that away for later.
Now imagine yourself in one of those test environments they have at college where they’re doing psychological research. You’re at a desk, watching a video of a man. It is your father, but in the imaginary scenario, you don’t know this man. They show you five minutes of clips of this man talking with other people, making decisions, and doing whatever he does in his life, like driving, doing work he does, eating, reading a newspaper.
The people doing the testing ask you to write down your impressions of this person. His personality type, his ethics, his interests and tastes, and is possible, his personal goals. When you’re done with that, they ask if, overall, you have a positive or negative response to him, whather you like him. The last question is, if you had to deal with him like asking him a favor or working on some kind of business transaction, how do you think would be the best way to approach him so that it worked out well.
Now you leave the testing exercise and go back to your own space. You pull out the two sheets and compare them. One is a description of your own iconic idea of “father.” The other is your best shot at getting inside who your real father actually is. You have focussed entirely on him and gathered information to try to understand his experience. (This, by the way, is very close to my definition of compassion.)
Pay attention to how you’re feeling when you do this. If these feelings are some kind of suffering (grief, disappointment, resentment, rage), this is what is happening because you are stubbornly demanding that your father be someone else. And everything that happens because of these feelings is the damage that you are doing to your life, because of your refusal to accept that he’s not who you want him to be.
Now this is a very Bhuddist way of processing. The Bhuddists teach that our suffering is caused by attachments, some demand that the universe be what we want it to be, rather than what it is. That attachments not only create our misery, but keep us focussed on it, because we think it’s our job to change reality and so we keep hammering at it. And sometimes we’re not only refusing to accept what’s going on in the outside word, but we’re also demanding that we be different, that we not have the feelings we have.
One more interesting thing about Bhuddist teaching is that we are encouraged to have our own feelings. We are alive. We live through things that are pleasing and satisfying; we also live through losses and disappointments. This is part of reality. We’re okay where we are. But we’re supposed to fully experience it, not stuff it, so we can learn from it. Identify our attachments, explore them and discover why they’re so important to us, and ultimately decide whether they’re worth the energy we’re giving them. Or if there is something more interesting and productive and cheerful and rewarding that we might give our attention to.
So let’s go back to these things you said.
1. It’s okay if you go NC with a lover because there will always be another one.
That may be true, but it’s a very mechanical and cold way of viewing both your lovers and yourself. If you fell in love with someone, it was because they reflected some deep desire you have for your life. Of course, you can and should leave behind someone who causes you pain or doesn’t have meaning anymore in your life.
But if you don’t reflect on why that person was there, what powerful need you have that he satisfied, then you’ve invested huge energy and attention on an experience and gotten little back for it. We fall in love with our teachers. What did he teach you? More importantly, what did you learn about yourself and your deep needs? And how will you use that learning to change your life?
This may sound very peculiar, especially when we’re talking about relationships with abusive or predatory people, but they are also our teachers. In the end, if you want the experience to be something about you and you want to extract the good out of it, the learning and the life-changing, you have to focus on what this means for you. And how you can turning what appears to be losing into a victory. If and when you do that, you can actually look back at the relationship as a good thing. You’ve seen me right that I’m grateful for my relationship with my ex. This is true. And it’s one of the reasons I can feel compassionate toward him, though I don’t want him in my life anymore. And feel sorry for him too, because he’s not capable of learning the way I do, because his pathology is such a closed circle and keeps him so stuck.
2. With parents, it’s a one-shot deal.
Skylar, I don’t know how old you are, but this is the statement of someone who is trapped in a dependent relationship with people who are inadequate to hold up their end of the deal. Like many of us were as children.
So with all respect, I would suggest that your issues with your parents are based in history, old history, not what’s going on now. The child in you that didn’t get what it needed to develop along a healthy path of self-esteem, self-empowerment with some important skills. Like the ability to comfort yourself (because your pain was dismissed as unimportant or burdensome or weakness). Or the ability to extend compassion and understanding to other people (because your expression of your own needs was not respected or actively discouraged). Or the ability to make and trust your own critical judgments about what is good or bad for you and then act on them (because your observations and inclinations were disparaged or ignored or you were expected to bury your own needs in favor of other people’s needs).
So because you didn’t get everything you needed to grow up, parts of you are still in that framework, struggling to get what you needed from the people who didn’t give them to you in the first place.
The thing is, if you look at this, you already know this is a fool’s game. As I wrote previously, these people are who they are, and as parents, they probably are just as unable to foster your personal growth as they ever were. (Because they have their own issues of never having fully matured emotionally.)
And the truth is that there are parents we can grab all over the place. An astounding (to me) number the people I coach or counsel have told me at some point that I am the mother they never had. But the thing is that I’m not the “whole” mother. They don’t want me to cook their dinners or do their laundry or drive them to soccer practice. They want me to help them develop emotionally or learn objective reasoning skills or find the courage to be who they want to be. In other words, they see in me something about who they want to be (or who they really are) and they spend time with me to unblock unfinished developmental paths.
There is a whole world of teachers that we call “mentors” or “coaches” or “best friends” or “lovers.” We are attracted to them because we see something in them that’s really about ourselves. A strength where we are weak. A freedom where we are trapped. A skill set that enables them to maneuver successfully in circumstances that we always fail at.
I married several of my teachers and lived with other ones. (I wish a knew then what I know now, because some of my leavetakings were very cruel after I “outgrew” them.) But I also followed some people I thought were wiser than me for a while. I also inhaled certain subject areas — like my reading about childhood development, personality disorders, theories of therapeutic treatment, religious philosophy, and models of trauma processing — while I was recuperating from the relationship with the sociopath and determined to “fix what was wrong with me.”
My parents will always be my bloodline progenitors, and in learning to be more adult, I learned a lot by thinking about their characters and their backgrounds, as well as how it played out on the lives of my siblings and me. I can’t change where I physically came from or my inheritance from that background. But I can make decisions about how I view it, and how I use it.
And part of that was about love. I went NC with my father and I never stopped being angry if I thought about things he did to me. Because it was right to be angry. If I was not angry I would not be honoring my own need to be respected and treated with love and caring. But I don’t hate my father. I hate what was wrong with him, perhaps. But he too was a victim of what my sister and I call the family curse, the generational transmission of abuse and the psychological damage the goes with it. I also remember the good that he did, and how hard he tried in many ways. And I love him for that, and for all the extraordinary trails he passed on to me. Because if I hate him, I also hate myself. And there is nothing gained in that.
But from the perspective of an active, rather than purely genetic father, his potential to provide anything meaningful was exhausted long before I left that house. Which meant that I had to look elsewhere for good parenting. And so do you, and any of us who are not finished with some of the development we should have been able to do as children.
And that, alone, is one very good reason to find a therapist. The good thing about therapists, as opposed to other quasi-parental figures, is that we pay them for their time and (hopefully) they can be totally on our side without looking for something else for their own gain. In the “real world,” that’s never true. We make deals with people to get our needs met, and those deals get be very complicated and often turn bad, as you probably already know.
3. NC is just like a death sentence.
Only if you believe that there is no other source for what you need from them.
And if right now, you feel like giving up on getting what you need from them equates to giving up getting it at all, I would suggest that you really do need to go NC in order to get some perspective. They are just not that important to your development now. In fact, this idea that they are important is probably holding you back from becoming your best self, growing into your potential.
So maybe you ought to really dig into the idea you have that going NC is equivalent to death. Maybe you’re right in a way. Maybe it’s equivalent to letting go of the resentments that give you a kind of strength. And you don’t know who you would be if all those coping skills you developed to deal with them became just obsolete artifacts of another era in your life. Things you didn’t need anymore. I can certainly relate to that. Incest survivors like me have massive, muscular coping mechanisms that we think are “who we are.”
I had to let a lot of myself “die,” or at least get stored away in the closet of patterns I chose to uninstall. All the little-girl charm, the unasked-helpfulness, the willingness to do anything — those things that were useful in surviving abusive situations. Because they were creating abusive situations. And believe me, they fought back as I was withdrawing energy from them. “Well what about this?” and “What happens if that?” and “Don’t you know what’s going to happen to you?” and “You’re becoming an unlovable bitch, and an abuser, and you’re going to become a bag lady because no one will ever love again.”
It can take a lot of courage to leave your past behind and stop up to being a better, more self-sustaining, more free, more empowered self.
4. Imprinting.
It’s what we do with our teachers. The same thing as the “falling in love with our teachers” thing. Except we may not interpret them as teacher. We may interpret them as the source of our good. Or the thing that keeps us alive. Or our necessary support system. Imprinting is just another word for a feeling of need.
Another thing to question yourself about. What is the need? You’re not imprinting about everything. They are not an extension of your entire psyche. You said I gave you comfort and encouragement you imprinted on me. Okay, that was the need. And you’ll stay imprinted until you take care of that need in another way. Find a better source. Or figure out how to do it for yourself.
Finally, a word on self-comforting. I think that this may be one of the most important things that we either get or don’t get from our upbringing. And lack of skill at self-comforting may be the single most influential thing in whether we are vulnerable or not to sociopaths and other abusers.
Taking our own pain seriously is part of loving ourselves. If we hurt, we need to study it. Take the time to be “inside it” and listen to it. Understand what is causing it. See what we need that we’re not getting. Find a source to fulfill that need and bring us back to equanimity.
People who don’t respect themselves enough to do this are prone to addictions. They just feel their pain as an ungrounded, unexplained “bad” in their systems. And they do something to make it go away. Likewise I see a lot of people here saying “I’m angry/sad/confused. I don’t want to feel that way. Help me make it go away.” There is a good reason, always, that we feel pain. It is there to tell us that something is not right in our lives. And we need to do something about that. Sometimes the first thing we think of to do turns out not to be the best thing. (I started buying myself “presents” on eBay when I was starving for affection with the sociopath, because when the packages came, I felt like someone cared about me. Later I found better ways to be self-caring, because this solution created messes in my life.)
If we’re focussed on getting our needs me, the pain becomes a messenger and we can use it to lean how to live better. But we have to take it seriously. To take care of ourselves when we’re suffering. To not flip it off, and say we don’t want to feel that way, as though we could just turn a dial on the radio to find another station. This is not living consciously.
I know this is another long one. I hope it’s helpful and not too repetitive of previous posts.
You’re asking all the right questions and talking about important things. It means you’re on the path.
Kathy
Kathy!!! VERY GOOD,l and I don’t think a single soul has ever complained about your posts being LONG—they are interesting and informative, so quit apologizing for the length! (BOINK!!) LOL
Lots of stuff in this one to PONDER and re-read….and lots of great ways to look at our “parents” and our “mentors” and our “teachers.”
I think sometimes these great “thoughts” are like beautiful gems, we must observe, ponder and look at them from DIFFERENT ANGLES to get the entire picture of just what they are and how they can shine in different ways from different angles with different lights reflecting on or through them. These words are some good ways of looking at those different angles and different lights….and looking also at our “PRECONCEIVED TRUTHS” that may not really be “truths”—one of my favorite ones is “it takes two to fight”—and it doesn’t take TWO FIGHTERS, only an attacker and a victim. “There are two (valid) sides to every argument.” NO, there are NOT two VALID sides to every argument. Your pointing out the assumed “truths” Skylar was working under is a very very good point that they may NOT be true after all.
Thanks for a very thought provoking post! Lots of stuff for me to ponder. (((hugs))))
Oxy my daughter has never used me financially she uses me emotionally. She has always expected more than I was able to give her. It is not that I did not want to give it to here it was that it just was not with in my means. She would want things without even thinking she should ask first. She just expected me to be there for her no matter what. She never remembers any of the family’s birthdays. She always had to be reminded. She does remember the boys birthdays though thank God for that. She was my Maid of honor at my second marriage and does not remember that. My boys remember but she never does. She has always paid me back for any money I have loaned her. She does think she can help herself to anything in my home though but does tell me she took it when she is confronted. She is not perfect by far but she does not seem as bad as your children but I feel I do not know her at all any more. I never though she would ever threaten me. It is so hard for me to believe there is no hope but I do believe you are right. The more I try to fix this the worse it gets and the more evil and crazy they seem to make me look. Some times I think I am the S path because I have had a lot of evil thought that I have never had in my life before. I have experienced emotions that I never knew existed. I can write a book on all that I have gone through in my life.From mental abuse sexual abuse being involved in a murder trial after having my best friend murdered. Raising her Handicap child. I have had to lock us in the bedroom at night raising alcohol and drug abuse children that could become very violent. I am raising a step granddaughter who is 15 and wants to trans. but none of this has hurt me like the situation with my daughter has. These things that happened to me in my life I healed from but the pain gets stronger everyday with this situation I am in. Maybe I am running out of strength. I keep telling myself every day be strong your grandchildren will need you one day. Don’t let that man win. He wants you to go crazy. These thought are what keeps me going. thanks for your thought and support.
my mom wrote this list of qualities a few years ago, when i was living with her. reading it today, i feel a lot of emotional pain. not sure why. so i will write it down here, and i’ll see what i can figure out.
one step:
you’re so gentle
you are elegant
you are kind
you are bright and inquisitive
you are thoughtful
caring
loyal
fun
elegant (guess i am 2x elegant)
dependable
intelligent
a great gardener
warm
so wonderful and caring when i had surgery
generous
really nice
have integrity
so creative
friendly
As i was typing the list in, i felt an emotional clutch in my chest – these are the things she values. so, just like the spaths, she is telling me what matters to her. Most of these qualities haven’t changed since childhood – only 4 or 5 have come into being during my adulthood. i don’t think she understands adults much. i don’t think she understands what the world is like now, and the things we need to develop to survive or do well in the world. does she see, or rather, did she see any of those qualities? dunno. but this list is what matters to her. seems most of them qualify me as spath target.
My mom is an enabler, a child of a violent alcoholic, prone to depression, and has suffered extreme physical pain most of my life. She was also overwhelmed, in pain, rigid and angry much of my life, but she is not disordered. She has given me up to my n dad many times. it is heartbreaking, but she will do it no longer, i will not allow it.
She and i share many likes and interests, some of my favorite things about myself and my life are shared with her or supported by her, to the extent that she can support anything. i miss her and i love her. 50% of the time she sucked 30% as a mom, and 30% of the time, she sucked 90% as a mom. 10% of the time she was good.
don’t know why i am writing this (maybe to avoid vacuuming ;)) it just hurts my heart when i read that list.
One steppers,
I dont know if you copied down my email addy, as you didnt say. I waited around half an hour, and then asked for it to be deleted.Im sorry to be picky but I get confused when people dont do what they say they will do. My spath Ds did this to me all the time, so Im learning now to ASK nicely whats wrong?
OK?
Love, Gem.BTW, did you manage to access my FB and pics of my paintings?