UPDATED FOR 2024. Last week, Lovefraud posted a letter from “Cybil,” I did not choose this guy. Here’s more of her experience about “things people say.”
I’ll call this, “Things people say, part II.” This is the other one that bugs me: “You’re paranoid.” I always have a good 24 hours of self-doubt before I realize they’re the ones that are nuts, not me. I know a lot more about what crazy stuff is out there in the world than your average, never-tangled-with-a-sociopath human does.
I just went to a seminar of a national expert on how domestic violence leads to murder, especially for women. Over and over he said, “Trust your instinct.” He told the audience to take women seriously when they have these stories (like those on this blog) and that if she is a co-worker you should elevate these stories to security for everyone’s safety because it could easily become a workplace shooting.
Paranoid
But continually I have had people in my life say I am paranoid since my ex came into my life. HE used to tell me I was paranoid. Crazy. Hysterical. Depressed. I wasn’t. I was living in a psychological and physical war zone. People who survive sociopaths have survived wars. The people on the blog are war-buddies.
The funny part is watching how the people who told me I was paranoid act when their blinders fall off. Like my parents, every few weeks another blinder falls off. When the death threats came in, they were in shock and they never said, “You told us so,” but they started taking things a bit more seriously and realized that when they told me I was paranoid that he was going to kill me (Well, yes, he hit you, he lied to you, he had an arrest record, but he’d never kill you. He’d get in trouble. He’s not that stupid), they were wrong. The sad part is watching them go back into denial as the “living with death threats” thing starts to become routine.
A strange event happened the other day. I called the police. My parents say: You know that was just a random thing that happened. You’re paranoid.
Really?
Responsibility
I am going to start telling people in my life, you are not allowed to tell me I’m paranoid or that I chose this guy. Not only is it horribly deflating, it goes to the heart of what I am healing from and getting stronger by.
When people tell me “You chose him,” they are telling me I have to take more responsibility, but taking more than my share of responsibility for what happened is what kept me in the bad relationship longer than I should have been. Because I started to believe it was my fault, because he told me it was my fault. If I could just fix me, then maybe he wouldn’t have to get so crazy and mean. It took me several years of dangerous experimenting with every “me” I could be, to realize it wasn’t ME. Yeah, I don’t have a problem taking responsibility and I don’t need help taking more.
When people tell me “You’re paranoid,” they are really questioning my instinct and telling me not to listen to it. I am a year and a half out from living with an abuser and a gaslighter; I am largely over the hyper-alert period. I know what I feel. Doubting that was also what kept me in the bad place: Maybe he is telling the truth, maybe he did do that for my own good, maybe I am being too judgmental, maybe I should give him another chance. Not doubting my instinct to walk out that last time was what let me walk out!!!!
I’m not going back there. Not even in a mental sense.
Learn more: Beyond betrayal — how to recover from the trauma
Lovefraud originally posted this story on Nov. 27, 2010.
The sociopathic MO in three easy steps
Ox Drover
Dear Skylar,
AMEN, Sista’!!!! Amen!!!! You are getting it! I think there has been a LOT OF PROGRESS made here on LF in the last few days. TOWANDA for us all! (((hugs))))
one/joy_step_at_a_time
Sky, you said – “that’s not fair, it’s my turn, where is my share?”
i feel that one in my heart. i think i said that for the first time to another person just friday night. my experience is much less dramatic than yours, but i was always giving up to and giving over to my family. my sister is self centered and it comes across as greedy. she had two responses to my having anything – wanting it or devaluing it. i don’t know if she has ever been genuinely happy for me about anything.
your writing about boundaries comes from such a young place – you need to grow yourself up, and you can use your intellect to begin with. treat yourself as if you are the person you are sacrificing for. what i keep taking a stab at is, treating myself as i would treat a friend – would i judge and harangue a friend the way i do myself? no, i wouldn’t. When a friend fails, would i push them and tell them they are a loser? no, i would hold them and comfort them and help them get back on track with their goals and confidence. i still suck at this, but i do at least remember to ask the questions now.
And when you can, buy that child a new doll….but don’t do it in ‘power shopping'(good observation) mode. or at least go to the store and look at them. just let that possibility, of her having something that no one will take away from her, sink into your heart.
SeeingClearly
Good Evening All,
Great tread here, trying to catch up on everything. Not much time to post. Swiss cheese brain forgot password.
TO put my 2 cents worth about forgiveness.
When my mother was sick and dying I took care of her. We had for many years been at odds with each other. Even as I was taking care of her she tried to verbally abuse me. I just looked at her and said, I forgive you. She yelled at me “YOU FORGIVE ME, WHAT HAVE I DONE THAT NEEDS FORGIVING?”
my reply: that.
She never said another word to me. I still forgive her.
My best to you all during this time—I pray for peace, understanding and forgiveness. TOWANDA everyday!!!
Stay strong stay safe and Stay Sane
one/joy_step_at_a_time
oxy – it’s been kind of awesome around here the last few days.
i posted about my mom earlier; i sure would like folks’ feedback.the post got lost in the volume of posts today – don’t know what thread it was on and the search function is still busted. i’ll look for it.
one/joy_step_at_a_time
well, hells bells, it’s just upthread at 5:14!
Ox Drover
Dear One_step,
I saw that and read it and thought about it, pondered it even, and I’m not sure what it all means or that I even know enough about your mom and your relationship to know what to think on it.
I think you said that she had dementia now and that she really wasn’t “with it” any more mentally. That in itself is “losing” them before they die. I had a patient/friend whose mother also a patient was the sweetest thing in the world and very physically frail. My friend took care of her mom and as her mom lost her mind she started cussing and cryiing and hitting out at my friend and my friend’s heart was broken because her mom talked to her like that, and I told her—your mom is gone, all that is left is the animated shell–the lights are on but no one is home, so don’t take to heart what comes out of her mouth now.
So whatever your relationship, good or bad with your mom, remember that, reconcile yourself with THAT relationship, and like SeeingClearly said, forgive her—even for the things that you can’t forget, get the bitterness out of your heart for whatever she did or did not do that she should have done for you. Your mom is “gone” now, even if her body still lives.
In a way my maternal grandmother was my “mother” and she was a die-hard enabler, but she wasn’t mean about it—she did her enabling by secret keeping, but she didn’t punish you if you didn’t comply like my egg donor did. I took care of my grandmother in here final years, even though at the time she lived with my egg donor and during that time I actually wasn’t speaking to my egg donor (I had actually forgotten how many times through the years we had been NC for months or more than a year at a time) Egg donor worked and I lived across town but was a stay at home mom, so I would go to egg donor’s home and stay with grandma while egg donor was at work.
Hummmmm, I really HAD “FORGOTTEN” about he NC during that time until just now I was reminded about it. Interesting though, that I never really considered the NC to be “forever” but only temporary. Now I have no desire for it to be anything but permanent. Isn’t it amazing how we have SELECTIVE memory of different interactions with our relationships in the past??? Yep, very selective, seeing only the parts that we want to see. Selective CRS. Hummmmm. Need to ponder this.
one/joy_step_at_a_time
thanks for responding oxy – well, it’s just me trying to figure out the relationship with my mom and family, with ‘new eyes’. my relationship with my mom is pretty good. she still knows me. i love her lots. don’t see her much because of the turd she is married to.
the only thing i really have a hard time with is her selling me out for him…i am sure she though she put her kids first, but we were a distant 2nd. i know she was set up to be like that, by her own history. but this one will take longer to forgive – i have just really understood it in the last couple of years, and only recently started getting angry about it.
skylar
One-step, you just posted, “my experience is much less dramatic than yours”. Gosh I hope I’m not coming across as a drama queen. I’m not sure what to call what I experienced. I don’t think it was more dramatic than anyone else’s, there was no sexual abuse, like so many here have experienced. Its hard to have a clear perspective. It just seems to have traumatized me in a way that has left me a bit crippled. It’s obvious that this list your mother made for you left you with a WTF moment, Onestep. It hurts your heart, but I can’t tell what her intention was. Without looking at specific examples that we can examine through the template of “red flags”, it’s hard to come to any conclusion. Was she thoughtless or was she trying to subtly keep you from growing into more than that?
one/joy_step_at_a_time
sky – big exhale for me on your last question:’was she trying to subtly keep you from growing into more than that?
uh huh.
and i think she did that ’cause she knew no other way to be. she still lies and says things like, ‘i don’t want to hold you back’ (in terms of me caring for her in this economically depressed areas where it has been hard to find steady work. she knows no other way. i was supply to her in many ways too – because i was caring and kind and thoughtful, she wanted me close. ’cause that turd she married is none of those things. she sucked on my emotionally for most of my life.
and you don’t come across as a dama queen; sorry, not what i meant at all – just meant your circumstances were harsher than mine. no judegment, just fact.
trying to keep me from growing into something more – both of them did that, both my mom and the turd. wow.
skylar
Kathy,
I keep trying to respond to your post. Thank you for that but it’s going to take a while….